buy "commercial gear", sell bullets to pay for it.

[beefie]

then you'll make/save $30 an hour, finishing 500 or so bullets an hour, with say, $700 in the gear. Instead of having $300 in stuff that turns out less than 100 finished bullets an hour. Ditto having a Progressive loader, like the Lee. Check on Ebay for the latter, as well as the ads on this site, of course. 700 rds per hour. People are simply NUTS to pay $150 for a single station, 150 rds per hour press, and $60 for a set of dies. Unless you are a top hand at benchrest rifle matches, you'll never see the difference in the ammo loaded. But you'll feel the difference in your time spent at the range, instead of at the workbench.

[BBQJOE]

I think some of us have graduated to a point where it's more enjoyable to cast, size, lube and load, than it is to shoot.
Well, almost.

I feel sad when I shoot a boolit. So sad, that I feel I must go look for it. :-)

[Bzcraig]

then you'll make/save $30 an hour, finishing 500 or so bullets an hour, with say, $700 in the gear. Instead of having $300 in stuff that turns out less than 100 finished bullets an hour. Ditto having a Progressive loader, like the Lee. Check on Ebay for the latter, as well as the ads on this site, of course. 700 rds per hour. People are simply NUTS to pay $150 for a single station, 150 rds per hour press, and $60 for a set of dies. Unless you are a top hand at benchrest rifle matches, you'll never see the difference in the ammo loaded. But you'll feel the difference in your time spent at the range, instead of at the workbench.

Are you aware of the laws and licensing required for your proposition?

[1bluehorse]

then you'll make/save $30 an hour, finishing 500 or so bullets an hour, with say, $700 in the gear. Instead of having $300 in stuff that turns out less than 100 finished bullets an hour. Ditto having a Progressive loader, like the Lee. Check on Ebay for the latter, as well as the ads on this site, of course. 700 rds per hour. People are simply NUTS to pay $150 for a single station, 150 rds per hour press, and $60 for a set of dies. Unless you are a top hand at benchrest rifle matches, you'll never see the difference in the ammo loaded. But you'll feel the difference in your time spent at the range, instead of at the workbench.



If I wanted a job I'd a stayed with the one I had before I retired.........but you go ahead on and buy the "commercial" casting machine, and the lead you'll need to make all them bullets......get the licenses needed to sell bullets, advertise your wares, boxing, shipping, man, I'm tired already just thinking about it....let us know how that Lee Loadmaster works out for ya at 700rds and hour also.........I should know better than to even read such drival, but someone has to feed the trolls....

[Cherokee]

One of those things that sounds good but is a bad idea. Been then, never again.

[bgokk]

The OP isn't talking about going into business. If I read his post right. He is saying it makes more sense to pay more for equipment which will turn out a larger volume. This will allow more range time as opposed to loading time.

[BBQJOE]

The OP isn't talking about going into business. If I read his post right. He is saying it makes more sense to pay more for equipment which will turn out a larger volume. This will allow more range time as opposed to loading time.
yes, except for the part in the title where he uses the word sell.

[bgokk]

yes, except for the part in the title where he uses the word sell.

Yep! I skipped the title, my bad.:oops:

On my retirement I can't even afford to pay attention.:cry:

[btroj]

Ah yes, the new guy with all the answers AND a get rich quick scheme.

I cast and load ammo for fun. It isn't about speed. It isn't about money. It is about doing things my way and enjoying myself.

A single stage press works well for most shooters. It is also the only good way to learn to load.

[jonp]

I use a Lee Hand Press because I like to "feel" every boolit I load and I'm not in a hurry.

[gray wolf]

Ah yes, the new guy with all the answers AND a get rich quick scheme.

I cast and load ammo for fun. It isn't about speed. It isn't about money. It is about doing things my way and enjoying myself.

A single stage press works well for most shooters. It is also the only good way to learn to load.
I agree

[Gtek]

Ford, Chevy, Dodge. Some of us are rifle cranks coming from the BR/ Schuetzen tribe dance to a different drum. I can usually call a pulled shot and know it was me not the round. If making a big pile of brass (AR/AK/SKS/etc.) next to you gives you a chubby, rock on! If we were all from the same tribe we would not have as much to argue about? Gtek

[Miata Mike]

Is there a problem selling cast bullets? I would have thought that selling some excess cast lead bullets would not be an issue. Or am I reading this wrong?

[TCLouis]

Forget which one, but an FFL is required to sell components.

Everyone seems to have forgotten about the liability insurance issue also.

[Miata Mike]

Inert components like brass and bullets shouldn't be a liability issue. Loading them with primers and powder, then selling them could very well be an issue. I like your tagline TCLouis. :D How true.


Forget which one, but an FFL is required to sell components.

Everyone seems to have forgotten about the liability insurance issue also.

[btroj]

Federal law requires the correct permit to sell bullets. You become a manufacturer. Liability exists with anything you make and sell.

Why would I turn my hobby into a job?

[ffries61]

Inert components like brass and bullets shouldn't be a liability issue. Loading them with primers and powder, then selling them could very well be an issue. I like your tagline TCLouis. :D How true.

anytime you manufacture and sell any component, you must be licensed.

[Sgtonory]

anytime you manufacture and sell any component, you must be licensed.

Maybe a slave needs permission but as a free man or woman you don't need to ask anyone for permission to do anything.

[KYShooter73]

Don't forget about registering (and paying) for ITAR....

[Miata Mike]

I stand corrected.


Federal law requires the correct permit to sell bullets. You become a manufacturer. Liability exists with anything you make and sell.

Why would I turn my hobby into a job?

[Duckiller]

Go ahead tell the ATF and the State Department that you are a free man and don't need their permission to do anything. Then let us know when you are having your gun sale because you will soon be a convicted felon,illegal to own guns. There is a extensive thread currently on the board dealing with selling cast boolits. People do it but with proper permits and liciences.

[kayak1]

On top of the license issue, I haven't seen any commercial setup for $700 the equipment I browsed was several $K with a good long wait. For a non commercial star sizer I won't see it until November.

[462]

Beefie,
Reckon, I'm nuts because I use a single stage press -- well, actually two of them. That's okay, though, as I've been called worse. Use the equipment you want, but don't disparage those of us who use the equipment that we prefer or can afford.

Regarding selling boolits that you've cast, the subject has been discussed for years. A thorough search (here and the ATF's site) will provide you with much information.

[beefie]

ok, call it "half commerical or what you want, but a propane powered plumber's furnace, used, runs about $100. a couple of 6 cavity lee molds at $70 each, and a Star Progressive sizer is $300, brand new. ( can be found on EBay and right here on this site, probably) The production rate I quoted is quite feasible with such gear, and no, no license is required for making bullets. they are just chunks of lead, like toy soldiers. Do you know the difference between bullets and rds of ammo?

[alamogunr]

Do you know the difference between bullets and rds of ammo?

Congratualtions! You just made my "ignore" list.

[theperfessor]

To manufacture and sell bullets requires a class 07 FFL. This has been cussed and discussed in many threads. It's Federal law.

[mpmarty]

Beefie take a deep breath, exhale, shake your head and give up. YOU CAN'T DO IT LEGALLY and nobody here in their right mind will encourage you to even try.

[Bzcraig]

He is a troll and probably a young one

[Jim]

Ah yes, the new guy with all the answers AND a get rich quick scheme.

I cast and load ammo for fun. It isn't about speed. It isn't about money. It is about doing things my way and enjoying myself.

A single stage press works well for most shooters. It is also the only good way to learn to load.


I just went fully automated!

78049

[jmort]

"He is a troll and probably a young one"

Yes - I think he has fooled a few of us. At this point, I'm just laughing.

[Adam10mm]

To manufacture and sell bullets requires a class 07 FFL. This has been cussed and discussed in many threads. It's Federal law.
Type 06 FFL is ammunition manufacturer. Type 07 FFL is firearm manufacturer, which can also manufacture ammunition.

[dudel]

Something about buying ammo/boolits from a newb with high end gear doesn't strike me as a great idea.

[WILCO]

I just went fully automated!



Great pic Jim!

[theperfessor]

Freakshow10mm - glad you caught error, I fat fingered my answer.

[PbHurler]

Been handloading on single stage presses for 35 years. To me it's not about how quick I can get away from the bench, hell I enjoy being at the bench.

[jonp]

ok, call it "half commerical or what you want, but a propane powered plumber's furnace, used, runs about $100. a couple of 6 cavity lee molds at $70 each, and a Star Progressive sizer is $300, brand new. ( can be found on EBay and right here on this site, probably) The production rate I quoted is quite feasible with such gear, and no, no license is required for making bullets. they are just chunks of lead, like toy soldiers. Do you know the difference between bullets and rds of ammo?
I'm pretty sure 99% of the people on this site know the difference between boolits and ammunition.

[ku4hx]

I got into this hobby as, well ... a hobby. It can certainly become an obsession, but the whole idea for me was to shoot more and actually get closer to the "roots" of shooting. I was fascinated by gun culture and history and what I'd read about the "Wild Wild West" and cow pokes molding their own boolits around the camp fire. I realized a lot of what I read, and saw, was hokum, but still it interested me enough to try it. I've never regretted my decision.

If I ever become so jaded to the point where the underlying basis is nothing more than production rate, I may as well just quit the whole process and buy commercial and let them make all the decisions and do all the work. That's not likely to happen. Over the decades I've honed my craft and what I produce are, to me, objects of functional art. Very functional art.

As to time at my loading and casting bench, that's some of the most satisfying time I've ever spent. For me, the whole process from smelting to shooting to cleaning the guns is a Zen sort of thing. Why would I want to throw away any of that?

[GabbyM]

$30 an hour loading ammo. Now there is a pipe dream.

[dondiego]

ku4hx - Very well said! I wish I could have said that myself. Exactly my thoughts.

[dragon813gt]

no license is required for making bullets. they are just chunks of lead, like toy soldiers.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Gohon]

Maybe a slave needs permission but as a free man or woman you don't need to ask anyone for permission to do anything.

Then why do you tag and insure your car for permission to drive on a highway? :rolleyes:

[HATCH]

I own a master caster that i automated. It does spit out 700 boolits a hr. I also own a star size that is automated too. It sizes 1200 boolits a hr.

For me its about time. My shop time is limited. So if i have 3 hrs to kill then i can cast boolits while loading them.

And yes you can sell boolits to your.friends. But it has to be via word of mouth and strictly low key. And yeah you are required to get the proper paperwork to be legal but to be totally honest unless you advertise the BATFE or the Treasury dept aren't going to come arrest you for selling boolits to your best friend.

And to answer you next question, I don't sell boolits to anyone. I have given people some to try out.

[dragon813gt]

And yeah you are required to get the proper paperwork to be legal but to be totally honest unless you advertise the BATFE or the Treasury dept aren't going to come arrest you for selling boolits to your best friend.


So are you a betting man? I would not put it beyond them to do such a thing. While the chances are rather low. It's not a 100% certainty that it won't happen.

[ku4hx]

Maybe a slave needs permission but as a free man or woman you don't need to ask anyone for permission to do anything.

True, you can do pretty much anything you want to. But there are things that will get you arrested and precipitate all manner of bad consequences. We are still a nation of laws for the most part. People do break them and many seemingly get away with it. If you want to test the system ... go for it. If I ever think I might want to, the prize will certainly not be a few bits of cast lead.

[ku4hx]

... word of mouth and strictly low key. And yeah you are required to get the proper paperwork to be legal but to be totally honest unless you advertise the BATFE or the Treasury dept aren't going to come arrest you for selling boolits to your best friend.

I recently read a story about a raid on a couple somewhere in the USA. The wife was searching the internet for pressure cookers and the husband was searching for backpacks. Here's the story: http://news.yahoo.com/google-pressure-cookers-backpacks-visit-feds-140900667.html

I won't discuss how this came about or why any watching was being done or if it was justified, but the message to me is quite clear. If you really want to announce a desire to test the system, either covertly or overtly, be prepared to explain yourself. As the old Buffalo Springfield song says in part, "paranoia strikes deep": http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/forwhati.htm

[GabbyM]

Don't forget the Fed excise tax on ammo.

[jcwit]

Maybe a slave needs permission but as a free man or woman you don't need to ask anyone for permission to do anything.

LOL, Tell that to the Feds. LOL

[jcwit]

My suggestion to the OP is to start out small, maybe with a Lee Loader, then work up from there.

[mold maker]

Nothing about the current gov surprises me. If taxes, guns & ammo, or illegals are involved, you can bet they're more than interested. Spend, snoop, and spy(SSS), is the new order. They deny, the intent, or even the ability, but they get our personal info somehow.
Yeah, Yeah,,,, I know they're just protecting us.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

title:
"buy "commercial gear", sell bullets to pay for it."
then you'll make/save $30 an hour, finishing 500 or so bullets an hour, with say, $700 in the gear. Instead of having $300 in stuff that turns out less than 100 finished bullets an hour. Ditto having a Progressive loader, like the Lee. Check on Ebay for the latter, as well as the ads on this site, of course. 700 rds per hour. People are simply NUTS to pay $150 for a single station, 150 rds per hour press, and $60 for a set of dies. Unless you are a top hand at benchrest rifle matches, you'll never see the difference in the ammo loaded. But you'll feel the difference in your time spent at the range, instead of at the workbench.
If you're not a troll...
Here is my take on it, You have a valid thought, it's just the legal problems you can incur if you manufacture Ammunition, as legally defined by the BATFE, for sale as part time business.
If you think you know what Ammunition is, please Google 'ammunition as defined by BATFE' and look at the first result.

a better way to think is, Invest in more expensive (time saving) equipment to produce you're own ammunition quicker and spend more time at the range (if that is your goal). Quality equipment will not lose it's value, in fact it'll likely increase in value, if you take care of it. (EXAMPLE: The Star sizer I bought 3 years ago is worth more today as used, then it would have cost New 3 years ago.) So, look at the equipment as a investment instead of an expenditure...just like the Dems do when they spend our money :)

[snuffy]

What we have here is failure to communicate! Or possibly ignorance stated as fact. Couple that with pie in the sky thinking of a young man, you get the OP's thread.

Thousands of people have made a business out of a hobby. They, for the most part, have come to regret it. Having deadlines to meet, customer complaints and difficulty getting raw materials isn't my idea of fun. I'm retired and loving it. I frequently have dreams of being back at work, what a gift to wake up still retired!

Beefie, if you want to become one of us, try using the lingo that most of us have adopted. It's boolits, not bullets. Bullets are copper clad lead, regardless how the copper got on the outside of the lead.

Go ahead, try that plumber's pot to cast 700 boolits/hour. You'll find it is not fun! The heat generated is massive, and the temperature is difficult, if not impossible to control. Propane is expensive, just a guess, but you would get about 5 hours out of a 20# tank.

[runfiverun]

I would suggest you go ahead and crank out about 500 pounds of each mold you have on hand, just so you have plenty of inventory on hand for when the word gets out.
that way you can go ahead and do the equipment upgrade asap.

[deltaenterprizes]

Sold boolits for 12 years with fully automatic equipment and it is a lot of hard work.
Ammo components and ammo are the same thing to the Feds

[dr_reloader]

[QUOTE=BBQJOE;2330601]I think some of us have graduated to a point where it's more enjoyable to cast, size, lube and load, than it is to shoot.
Well, almost.

I feel sad when I shoot a boolit. So sad, that I feel I must go look for it. :-)[/QUOTE


+1 on this post... :thumbup:

[Adam10mm]

$30 an hour loading ammo. Now there is a pipe dream.
Depends what you do. I cast and load for the .454 Casull and my profit on a thousand rounds is $995.

[jonp]

If you load some rounds for a friend and charge exactly the cost of the componants is it a business?

[btroj]

Sure is. Ask the ATF what they call it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you load some rounds for a friend and charge exactly the cost of the componants is it a business?

You don't give enough info to answer your question, read here and maybe you'll find the answer.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/manufacturers.html

Laws are funny things, but I've never met a BATFE agent with a sense of humor ;)

[fredj338]

Maybe a slave needs permission but as a free man or woman you don't need to ask anyone for permission to do anything.

I love this! Try that, send me a letter from prison.
Years ago I had the lic & made some ammo & sold bulelts. Lots of work for little profit. I enjoy it much more as a hobby.

[dudel]

If you load some rounds for a friend and charge exactly the cost of the componants is it a business?


Sure, just not a sustainable one.

[khmer6]

Op a troll??? Didn't understand what the whole point of the post was

[Gohon]

Beefie, if you want to become one of us, try using the lingo that most of us have adopted. It's boolits, not bullets. Bullets are copper clad lead, regardless how the copper got on the outside of the lead.

Hog wash......people can call them what they please whether it is bullets or boolits. I call them bullets and it doesn't matter if there is copper on them or not. What do you call them if they have a gas check on them? Last thing needed around here is a form of political correctness just be called one of us.....what ever that is.

[snuffy]

Hog wash......people can call them what they please whether it is bullets or boolits. I call them bullets and it doesn't matter if there is copper on them or not. What do you call them if they have a gas check on them? Last thing needed around here is a form of political correctness just be called one of us.....what ever that is.

Don't want to be part of the family? Don't want to feel like you belong? Fine! Be that way. I'm tired of the new slang like calling a car a "ride". But I gladly identify myself with this forum by re-defining what I call lead projectiles.

New fad is those giant wheels with rubber band tires. Looks ridiculous. They'll learn when they try to get around in our Wisconsin winters. They have to ride something like a truck!

What do you call them if they have a gas check on them? GCSWC or GCSRN.

I suspect an english major might be bothered by an on purpose misspelling of bullet. American english has so many times strange ways to spell things, one minor error to signify a club membership is totally okay. Get over it!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I personally like the differentiation between boolit and bullets. I think it ads a little class to the lead.

Also if the decide to ban "Lead Bullets" we'll be safe,,, cuz "Bootlits" aren't bullets!

Randy

[Gohon]

Get over it!

Get over what? I don't have a problem....seems you do. You can call bullets anything you want, that's your privilege but don't go telling me or others they must use your adopted slag to be welcomed. There are several members on here that have been around longer than you or I and have many more posts than either of us and they still use the term bullet. I guess they never belonged to your family.

Point is, this is a great forum and many good and knowledgeable people around but you're the first I've see to tell someone they are not welcome if they don't use the term boolits. That's just wrong and you know it. Doesn't bother me the least bit which term someone prefers to use. So using your words....get over it.

[dragon813gt]

To add some fuel to this fire :laugh:
I use the term bullet for everything except those that aren't bullets, like shot. All of the commercial casters use the same term. I could care less what term people use. I will admit that I always chuckle when I see the term boolit :laugh:

[dondiego]

I get tired of people who call them "J-word" as if they can't actually say copper patch! That might be more appropriate for that pet peeve thread though. Sorry.

[youngda9]

Beefie, if you want to become one of us, try using the lingo that most of us have adopted. It's boolits, not bullets. Bullets are copper clad lead, regardless how the copper got on the outside of the lead.
So if someone doesn't use the lingo they are not "one of us"? Drop the elitist crapola.


Don't want to be part of the family? Don't want to feel like you belong? Fine! Be that way. I'm tired of the new slang like calling a car a "ride". But I gladly identify myself with this forum by re-defining what I call lead projectiles.
Do you even recognize your own hypocrisy?

[John 242]

I looked into getting a 07 FFL (manufacturers), before I got my 01. I wanted to be able to build firearms.

Getting the 07 is the easy part, paying the ITAR fee is the problem. Yes, 06 licensees (ammunition and component manufacturers) must pay the ITAR fees, too. Last I checked it was $2250 per year. There's no way I could afford that, as I am a small (tiny) business. So, I don't manufacture.

It can be argued that you can cast bullets and sell them locally, without getting caught. Maybe; there are guys making a living gunsmithing or buying and selling guns without an FFL. What are the odds of getting caught? Probably really low, but I personally don't like to gamble with such things, especially when you consider the possible consequences.

When I had my interview, the ATF investigator made it clear that although the ATF doesn't collect ITAR fees, being in compliance is something that they are now being strongly encouraged to check. There are those with manufacturing FFLs who claim they've either never heard of ITAR, or simply refuse to pay. Well, to each his own.

[blackthorn]

As far as getting cought, DO NOT steal (relative term) from ANY government agency!!! The government HATES competition!!

[cainttype]

First off, any friend, friend of a friend, or new aquaintance with genuine interest and decent manners has always been welcomed to visit the range and shoot extensively with ammo I've assembled... and I assemble a lot.
NO ONE can buy reloaded ammo from me. That is a fast rule that has always been in place.
Like others here, the shooting sports are my hobby. I would never allow something to change a beloved hobby into a begrudging job. There is no doubt in my mind that breaking the rule with one friend would quickly lead to a parade of requests and hurt feelings from others, so it's easier this way.
I do, however, encourage them all to learn reloading and offer them the use of my own equipment and time to start their journey. That offer has resulted in quite a few new reloaders and shooters over the years.
Never forget that we need new blood and new votes...ALWAYS encourage, mentor if at all possible.