I've noticed that there are a lot of questions being asked by the new folks that.....

[WILCO]

are easily answered by reading the reloading manuals. I don't understand why this is? I'm actually a little concerned of this trend. When I started reloading, there was no "Internet". When I started cast boolit activities, I re-read certain sections of one manual that pertained to this very topic and another section referencing reduced powder loads and powders suitable for cast boolits. When I learned of another more recent manual, specifically related to cast boolit shooting, I grabbed it as soon as it was available. All total, I have at least a dozen reloading manuals possibly covering every hand held or shoulder fired cartridge, past or present. I even have a manual on cartridge conversions! Do I now know everything? NOPE. But I have one hell of a place to get answers. Next up is the topic of "Stickies".

[Love Life]

It is what it is.

[500MAG]

I absolutely agree. I have loaded for 30 years and had to learn from reading. The term " a little knowledge can be dangerous" applies perfectly to this. They learn a little from YouTube and go at it. This site should only supplement what you learn from the manuals. My 12 year old keeps asking me when I am going to teach him. Last week, I handed him the Lyman manual and told him to start reading.

[500MAG]

Printed on paper reading material is passe'.

Then get them downloaded to your iPad. Lol

[Love Life]

Printed material is sooooooo 2004.

[country gent]

Alot of these people are of the groups that didnt have shop classes and learn the basics when in school. So just reading it may not do it.

[WILCO]

It is what it is.

Ultimately, this is true. But at least I've said something on the topic. Maybe someone will take heed.

[Love Life]

Ultimately, this is true. But at least I've said something on the topic. Maybe someone will take heed.

Naw, they won't. They will think the following:

A) You are talking about someone else
B) This doesn't apply to them
C) You are a terrible person who refuses to help people. You laugh at the tears of small children

Lord forbid somebody tell somebody to figure it out for themselves. You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink.

In some cases the horse is retarded and shouldn't be out of the stable...

[jmort]

One related problem is that threads are started by new casters/reloaders regarding topics that cannot be answered in single thread. And there is often more than one way to approach the issue so answers vary leaving someone with little information left to ferret out what would be best in their situation. I think everyone starting out should get Lyman's 49th, Modern Reloading by Richard Lee, and Lyman's Cast Bullet handbook. Then after reading them for a couple/few weeks or a month, and spending a couple few days/weeks reading the Stickies and the LASC articles/book, and then, and only then, start asking specific questions and begin buying equipment/components. Otherwise, there is no foundation to build on.

[mikeym1a]

are easily answered by reading the reloading manuals. I don't understand why this is? I'm actually a little concerned of this trend. When I started reloading, there was no "Internet". When I started cast boolit activities, I re-read certain sections of one manual that pertained to this very topic and another section referencing reduced powder loads and powders suitable for cast boolits. When I learned of another more recent manual, specifically related to cast boolit shooting, I grabbed it as soon as it was available. All total, I have at least a dozen reloading manuals possibly covering every hand held or shoulder fired cartridge, past or present. I even have a manual on cartridge conversions! Do I now know everything? NOPE. But I have one hell of a place to get answers. Next up is the topic of "Stickies".

I suspect that it is because they are new, and uninitiated. When I started, I read all I could about it, gathered up the necessary supplies, and gave it a go. I got lucky 1st time around. Good performing cartridges, and accurate. Never had a problem with leading. I got lucky. But, when I read a manual, I always end up with the 'why' lingering in the back of my head. True, the info in the manuals is correct, but people occasionally need encouragement, and that's why they ask questions. At least, that's how I am.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Being born in 1965, I am either the last "baby boomer" or the first "GEN Xer".

either way, I have a front seat to the differences of those two generations...a big one is the lack of patience, and of course it has been accelerating through younger generations, being born with using the internet on day one out of the womb. AND now on their phones.

WHY WAIT ?
ask a question and get the answer, instead of spending a few hours reading and finding it yourself.

I will admit, I fall victim to that thinking once in a while...the feeling of not having enough time, I just want an answer NOW !

well now, I am just rambling on...
OK I'm done.
Jon

[possom813]

We don't need no stinkin' manuals :groner:


Really though, I think the cost may have something to do with it. As silly as that sounds.

The new reloader has spent several hundred dollars getting setup to make his own rounds, and then the additional 20-30 bucks for a manual doesn't seem necessary because someone told them that all of the information is available on the internet for free.

And they believe it, and post all the questions they need answers to when a 10 minute visit with a quality manual would answer most of their questions.



On another note, my oldest daughter just finished ABC's of Reloading and picked up the Lyman 46th to start on. She wants her own press on the new bench, so I told her she had to read all of the manuals and there'd be a test when she's done :happy dance:

[Love Life]

There are written instructions on how to reload!!! Follow the instructions, to the letter, and you will safe.

Throw in a little critical thinking and the sky is the limit.

[500MAG]

Naw, they won't. They will think the following:

A) You are talking about someone else
B) This doesn't apply to them
C) You are a terrible person who refuses to help people. You laugh at the tears of small children

Lord forbid somebody tell somebody to figure it out for themselves. You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink.

In some cases the horse is retarded and shouldn't be out of the stable...
Oh, I see you have teenagers too.

[Love Life]

No teenagers, but I had to grow up with my generation.

[Char-Gar]

The newer shooter and loaders of today are conditioned to want and get short answers with a few key strokes. It is a generational shift in the learning paradigm. I find it extremely irritation and have ranted against it for a number of years on this board, but to no avail. Still they come with basic question and are to lazy to look up the answers for themselves. In all truth, it never occurs to them to expend and energy or metal power in basic research. Like Pavlov's dogs, it is a conditioned response. Got a question, ask somebody on the internet. Never mind the fact that the answer might come from somebody who is as clueless as they are.

I no longer try to spoon feed the internet babies, but there are plenty who will.

I am no longer surprised that Obama got elected twice, nor the fact that we all have to speak some form of Gookineese in a couple of decades to talk with our supervisors at work. It's all part of the new culture.

[762 shooter]

What? And miss the chance to post on this great site?

I think that anyone, of any ilk that cares enough about this subject to ask any sort of question should be appreciated. They could be out canvasing the neighborhood to get out the vote for whom ever you and I don't care for or they could be hugging trees or they could be taking irrelevant polls.
That "age of casters poll" is scary.

My 85 year old mother felt my brother's carry pistol the other day when they were saying good-bye. She stepped back in horror and asked if she had turned it on.



LoveLife,

I like to think of it as "You can lead a horse to drink, but you can't make him water". So true, So True.

I still cross check against hard copy.

762

[WILCO]

True, the info in the manuals is correct, but people occasionally need encouragement, and that's why they ask questions. At least, that's how I am.

There's nothing wrong with that, and as we have seen from the membership here, there's tons of encouragement to go along with the answers given. I'm talking about the failure to grasp basic concepts of reloading in general. It's been mentioned before, the "Hey, I need a boolit load for xxx cartridge." I used to give an answer to those questions, assuming they understood bullet seating depth, over all length, maximum charge and so on. Now I don't.

[Dean D.]

I think JonB hit the nail squarely on the head. I notice a distinct lack of patience and a need for instant gratification today compared to years ago. Cell phones, internet, overnight mail are all relatively new in the past 2 decades. Times change but the basics don't. Instilling patience and removing the need for instant gratification is something that will not happen overnight, if ever, for some folks.

[500MAG]

You have to have the basics in place. I have learned a lot from this site but it builds on the foundation acquired from the manuals. Like Wilco said, I don't give out loading data, and no offense, I don't trust loading data I can't back up with documented data. I do understand there are things learned by trying but there has to be some basis to refer to for trying a load.

[WILCO]

And then there's the poster asking a question, being given a slew of answers and then wandering off the path when the obvious answer is to go back to square one.

[dragon813gt]

This happens on every forum across the Internet that's dedicated to a hobby. New people come in and ask really basic questions instead of using the search feature and search engines to find their answers. No one had an excuse for not knowing how to use a search engine. This is what bothers me. They are to lazy to find the information themselves. Instead of members answering the basic questions their response should be "search." This works well on a bunch of forums I belong to. The new members either move along or they figure out how to find the answers to their questions. There are no excuses for asking basic questions that have been answered over and over and over. But obviously the advanced questions warrant new threads.

[Love Life]

We have the internet, along with all of it's search engines, at our finger tips!!! We have the most important advance in history concerning information, and people refuse to utilize it! WHY!!!!

Now it isn't just the beginner reloading questions. It is also the "I don't know what this extremely easy to find, and mass produced, rifle/handgun is worth." threads or questions. Sweet Jimminy Cricket!! You're already on the internet. Google it!

Ok. Rant off. Taking the little girl to the park.

[Char-Gar]

True, the info in the manuals is correct, but people occasionally need encouragement, and that's why they ask questions. At least, that's how I am.

Ahww jeeze! If a guy need encouragement (have his hand held), he should go to his mother, his shrink or his pastor.

[9.3X62AL]

My usual answer to the folks interested in getting into reloading is to have them buy a good reloading manual FIRST, before any tools or components. I like the RCBS/Speer Manuals' plain-language text, and my tooling is predominantly RCBS.

[onceabull]

This "Love Life" guy has quite a way with words for a youngster..I do beg to differ on one point,though, It is NOT "so 2004", is IS "so 20th century"... Besides EVERYONE knows that all the stuff in hard copy was written by a bunch of gunwhores on the take, while if it's on the internet it's a least as much gospel as the first 4 tomes in the New Testament..... Onceabull

[DougGuy]

A lot of it is spurred by the recent/current gun and ammo shortage. Newbies bought guns out of panic shopping, now they can't buy ammo, so the next best thing is buy reloading gear. With the same few mouse clicks. Why buy the manual? It's just an "extra" added expense. Then after a few more mouse clicks, they find this forum. And here we are...

[Char-Gar]

This "Love Life" guy has quite a way with words for a youngster..I do beg to differ on one point,though, It is NOT "so 2004", is IS "so 20th century"... Besides EVERYONE knows that all the stuff in hard copy was written by a bunch of gunwhores on the take, while if it's on the internet it's a least as much gospel as the first 4 tomes in the New Testament..... Onceabull

:-) :-) :-)

[Pat I.]

I've been reading threads like this seems like forever on different forums and don't get what the big deal is. Maybe it's that people forget what they were like when they were starting a new hobby. I didn't have access to the internet when I started casting so used to pester the hell out of people with letters and phone calls. If you don't like the questions just don't read the threads and the problem's solved.

[mroliver77]

In my childhood all of my family spent the better part of our "down" time reading. Our home and our Grandparents homes were full of books, magazines and newspapers.

I read everything I could get my hands on and at times read the encyclopedia for entertainment.

When I wanted to load the first thing was a book a Sierra manual with a how too and much more. Got an old Lyman from the 40's after that. I read and thought about it a bunch before I ever loaded a round.

One of the best things school taught me was how to find answers I wanted! Some of the greatest things I have learned were en-route to finding other information!

I wish I knew how to give this to others.
J

[nekshot]

well, thank God our ranks are swelling and not in decline. Don't think for a minute the left doesn't see this also!!

[WILCO]

I've been reading threads like this seems like forever on different forums and don't get what the big deal is. Maybe it's that people forget what they were like when they were starting a new hobby.

The big deal Pat, is that reloading ammunition is serious business. There's no room for error. It's alarming how new folks to the hobby and sport don't seem to have the basics. I've never forgotten what it was like when I started, but I knew enough to read the manual and grasp the basics before I ever spilt one grain of powder on the reloading bench.

[Love Life]

This "Love Life" guy has quite a way with words for a youngster..I do beg to differ on one point,though, It is NOT "so 2004", is IS "so 20th century"... Besides EVERYONE knows that all the stuff in hard copy was written by a bunch of gunwhores on the take, while if it's on the internet it's a least as much gospel as the first 4 tomes in the New Testament..... Onceabull

Are you telling me that everything I read on the internet isn't true? :bigsmyl2:

[WILCO]

well, thank God our ranks are swelling and not in decline. Don't think for a minute the left doesn't see this also!!

They see it and have penned many articles about it's dangers, and how stupid the average joe or jane is, hoping to start the call for government intervention.

[nodda duma]

Wasn't the popular gripe a few years ago about how few young people are interested in the hobby?

Now the gripe is that too many new people are asking questions.

So the young generations are either damned if they do or damned if they don't.

Think about this:

For every person who asks an "obvious" question, there are probably 10 who have looked it up themselves.

Think also about this as you consider the hobbies you take interest in: How many long-time hobbyists first learned by asking questions of their elders or looking over the shoulder of an experienced hobbyist? Did they answer your questions? Did they tell you "it's in the book?" Seems not too long ago being book-smart was frowned upon. Guess times have changed. Were *you* worried they'd think it was a dumb question, but they answered it anyways because they understood the value of passing their passion on to the next generation? Or perhaps you weren't worried, and they thought "gee that's a basic question that could be answered if he RTFM" but answered anyways...not wanting to dampen your enthusiasm.

Posting questions on the forum is the modern-day equivalent of asking questions directly. Some people learn best by doing so. Others learn on their own. There is nothing wrong with either approach to learning.... Especially when it comes to being productive.

After all, it's evidence that the hobby of casting boolits will continue long after *you* are gone.

-Jason

[WILCO]

Wasn't the popular gripe a few years ago about how few young people are interested in the hobby?

Jason,

You've missed my point completely.
Please go back and re-read my OP.

Thank you.

[Char-Gar]

I've been reading threads like this seems like forever on different forums and don't get what the big deal is. Maybe it's that people forget what they were like when they were starting a new hobby. I didn't have access to the internet when I started casting so used to pester the hell out of people with letters and phone calls. If you don't like the questions just don't read the threads and the problem's solved.

Pat, I don't suppose it is a "big deal". It is just an irritant and most irritants are in the final analysis pretty small stuff. The really big deals start wars, and little irritants start internet threads. But, I reserve the right to be irritated and petty from time to time. It keeps me in touch with my humanity. When I start to rise above it, that is a red flag of some kind, but I am not sure what. :-)

[Pat I.]

When I start to rise above it, that is a red flag of some kind, but I am not sure what. :-)


[smilie=l:

[Recluse]

Still they come with basic question and are too lazy to look up the answers for themselves.

I no longer try to spoon feed the internet babies, but there are plenty who will.

Instant gratification is paralleled by laziness. Why work, strive, wait, plan, sacrifice or *gasp* EARN something when today's society preaches that you're ENTITLED to it simply because you have the ability to suck in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide.

So many people look at today's special operations professionals in the military as some sort of "supermen" or that they are particularly gifted, etc etc. They'll tell you that is incorrect. What they are is DRIVEN TO SUCCEED and they know the ONLY way they'll get the cherished beret is through hard work.

Today, hard work scares most people like a penis scares Rosie O'Donnell.

The basic questions about reloading and casting that we see are covered ad nauseum in reloading manuals in generally in the "stickies" of every bona fide reloading forum on the internet.

But to actually purchase, buy or borrow--let alone READ--a reloading manual means sacrifice. It means having to wait to find an answer. It means possibly having to wait to accumulate the funds to buy a reloading manual.

So away to the instant gratification-net they go, and as another member observed, a few clicks later they land on planet Cast Boolits and ask questions immediately because waiting, learning, reading or for other people--they are special and because they are special they are therefore ENTITLED to whatever knowledge and experience the rest of us have accumulated over the decades.

I'm happy to help out those who are more than willing to help out themselves. Those who ask "Can I tumble-lube boolits that have regular lube grooves" and "Can I shoot a boolit designed for a gas check without a gas check" and "Does anyone have a good load for a .38 Special wadcutter round" and the such, I ignore. If I see more than one such question by a new member, I immediately put them on my Ignore List and never look back.

:coffee:

[leeggen]

Gentleman for the past six months (approx.) I have been reading the largest reloading /casting manual in the world. Yes Wilco it is right here infront of me now. There is more information here in Cast Boolits than anywhere and in any number of manuals you or I or anyof the rest on here has. You gentleman have more experiance and knowledge than any where else. So now do I read a manual that is one sided and most are or do I go to where the best and most upto date infor. is stored. Yes some ask simple questions just like you used to ask you instructor. I and others can now use the internet and find better info than is in most manuals. Not that we don't want to read manuals,cause we do, EVEN HERE WE MUST READ THE MATERIAL!!!! I agree with you all on alot of points but stop and think where you are posting up to date info that is good for all of us old or young or old timer loader or beginner. Not starting trouble here but you all are more informative that is from up to date experiance. I will bet that if most of you had the internet back when you started you would not be saying some of the things I read from you all. You guys work to perfect bullet lube, hundreds of pages here to prove it, why just do what your manuals told you to do and stop "reinventing the wheel" as I have heard many time on here. I just read last night some threads from Geargnasher when he was asking for you alls opinions on a bullet he was wanting to have designed and a mold made. By the above threads you all should have told him to read the manual, bu tno you all chimed in and he finished a bullet design he wanted. No offense Geargnasher, just an example. Sorry for this long thread but I get offended when someone trys telling us newer loaders and casters We don't want to read a manual, angain I beleive this sight is larger that any printed manual yet to be found.
RANT OVER.
CD

[500MAG]

I think what WILCO is saying is its kinda like the people wanting to go to learn to fly a plane without learning to take off or land. We saw what that got us. Trouble! I'm not saying they are terrorist, I'm just saying they want to run out and buy a Reloader dies and powder and learn to load them right now so I can go to the range later today. The forum is great to help people and give advise but not to take short cuts.

[Pat I.]

The big deal Pat, is that reloading ammunition is serious business. There's no room for error. It's alarming how new folks to the hobby and sport don't seem to have the basics. I've never forgotten what it was like when I started, but I knew enough to read the manual and grasp the basics before I ever spilt one grain of powder on the reloading bench.

Reloading can be dangerous and since that's the case wouldn't you rather a person ask a question and get a decent answer than be afraid to ask it because he thinks he'll get jumped on and told to go read the manual? I also think some people just want an ice breaker when joining a new board so ask a simple question to get the ball rolling. I find myself much more irritated by the guy, new or old, that comes on like gang busters and has an answer to every question no matter what the subject or makes wild claims about accuracy and velocity without being willing to back up the claims with eye witness proof . This whole internet thing is for the most part nothing but a time drain anyway so might as well be used to help rather than hinder.

Looking forward to reading your thread about stickies.

[ShooterAZ]

I started reloading in the mid 70's. No internet then, only manuals. Since I value my face, and my life, I have always taken it very seriously. It truly is the difference in generations. The kids nowadays just text instead of speaking to each other. It's nuts. Having said that, I have no problem lending a helping hand if it involves something I am knowledgeable about. While it may be an irritant sometimes, I enjoy helping others to achieve success.

When I first came to this forum, I didn't know squat about casting boolits. Yeah, I had been reloading for many many years, and had the basics, but I sure appreciate the knowledge I have gleaned here. So, new members, read the stickies, buy a reloading manual or two, and ask questions. And remember that not everything that is on the internet is true!

[Love Life]

"'I've been reloading for 75 years and I have reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds using the exact same boolits, the exact same dies (that I haven't touched since setting them), and the exact same brass. What is going on?"

Experience reloader: "Solid and helpful answer"

"I've reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds!!!! Of course that is the right boolit, I adjusted the dies correctly 75 years ago, and that is the same brass!! Yes I have read every reloading manual ever made!!!"

Experienced reloader: "Solid and helpful answer"

"Don't correct me! I'm here to help you!!!"

^^^ I love those threads

[WILCO]

Reloading can be dangerous and since that's the case wouldn't you rather a person ask a question and get a decent answer than be afraid to ask it because he thinks he'll get jumped on and told to go read the manual?

You have completely missed my point Pat. There isn't a thing wrong with asking questions. It's wrong and sickening to ask the very basic questions that are critically inherent to safe reloading. Questions that are easily answered by the manual and form the very nucleus of a reloader's foundation.

[500MAG]

"'I've been reloading for 75 years and I have reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds using the exact same boolits, the exact same dies (that I haven't touched since setting them), and the exact same brass. What is going on?"

Experience reloader: "Solid and helpful answer"

"I've reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds!!!! Of course that is the right boolit, I adjusted the dies correctly 75 years ago, and that is the same brass!! Yes I have read every reloading manual ever made!!!"

Experienced reloader: "Solid and helpful answer"

"Don't correct me! I'm here to help you!!!"

^^^ I love those threads
You forgot to add "even if you do it the way I tell you, your still wrong and I'm right"

[WILCO]

Gentleman for the past six months (approx.) I have been reading the largest reloading /casting manual in the world. Yes Wilco it is right here infront of me now. There is more information here in Cast Boolits than anywhere and in any number of manuals you or I or anyof the rest on here has.

Leeggen,

As much as I love this website, there is nothing in it's entire contents that overrides any reloading manual. Don't be fooled. It's been said before that this place is a supplement to established practices and concepts. To see it otherwise is very dangerous. Also, there are no "one sided" reloading manuals. Just manuals that pertain to those specific products and components used in the reloading process of ammunition. You wouldn't use a chevy manual to fix a toyota would you?

[Pat I.]

"'I've been reloading for 75 years and I have reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds using the exact same boolits, the exact same dies (that I haven't touched since setting them), and the exact same brass. What is going on?"

Experience reloader: "Solid and helpful answer"

"I've reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds!!!! Of course that is the right boolit, I adjusted the dies correctly 75 years ago, and that is the same brass!! Yes I have read every reloading manual ever made!!!"

Experienced reloader: "Solid and helpful answer"

"Don't correct me! I'm here to help you!!!"

^^^ I love those threads

My favorites are:

OP: Had my grandpaps old Remchester out today and was able to shoot MOA groups at 100 yds using XYZ. Best I've ever shot and I'm really happy.

Resident Guru: That's nothing. I have a Rugvage that shoots those kind of groups at 800 yds every time at 4500 fps. If you learned how to load and weren't so dumb you could easily cut 7/8s off those groups..

Me to the resident guru (right before I get a 5 point warning and threatened with expulsion): $%&* you lying sack of $#!%!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about going a bit off topic.

[500MAG]

my favorites are:

Op: Had my grandpaps old remchester out today and was able to shoot moa groups at 100 yds using xyz. Best i've ever shot and i'm really happy.

Resident guru: That's nothing. I have a rugvage that shoots those kind of groups at 800 yds every time at 4500 fps. If you learned how to load and weren't so dumb you could easily cut 7/8s off those groups..

Me to the resident guru (right before i get a 5 point warning and threatened with expulsion): $%&* you lying sack of $#!%!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about going a bit off topic.

lmaorof!

[StratsMan]

To the topic of the OP...

I would say that this is another example of human nature, but in a contemporary format... Who among us has not asked a friend/neighbor/family member how to do <something> because they were handy and we wanted the info quickly??? It happens in the workplace, too. Those examples have happened since before the printed word, because it was quicker to ask how to make a wheel than it was to figure it out yourself.

With the advent of books, a writer/printer like Gutenberg in Germany could figure out a process and print it, to be read by a guy in England years later... Voila!!! No more need for in-person, voice instruction. Still, it was often quicker to get the info you needed directly from the master to the apprentice, so the apprentice would still ask questions for quick answers.

Now, that apprentice has the capability of asking the questions worldwide and getting answers from any number of 'masters'. And the apprentices are just as human as any have ever been, and they'd still prefer to ask a question for a short answer rather than studying or discovering the answers themselves.

Nothing has changed in human nature; it's just that the apprentices' questions are now heard by thousands, rather than by one master.

[onceabull]

Pat I:You,Sir, have left out the rice paper and the man behind the curtain....Onceabull

[mroliver77]

When I was new here it was commonly said that CB was akin to a Masters degree in cast boolit knowledge. I think some of the irritation is the massive influx of kindergarten level CB students.

Good, bad for our site? I dunno.
J

[pipehand]

I see the OP's point. What he's saying is stop asking "What's 2 times two" or "What's 3 times 4". There are people out there that never learned the multiplication table and use a calculator for the simplest math problem. The OP doesn't want to be some doofus' calculator.

I like answering questions, or at least pointing to where the answer could be found. What really chaps my butt is when some fly by asks a question, and members try to answer the question, but the original flyby doesn't ever show back up again. Oh look, a squirrel.... They're off asking basic questions somewhere else on the net. It's gotten where I check previous posts by low post count members to see if they're at least asking sincere questions.

[Pat I.]

Pat I:You,Sir, have left out the rice paper and the man behind the curtain....Onceabull

Why Sir, I don't have the faintest idea what ya'll are referring to.

[pipehand]

[QUOTE=Love Life;2323392]"'I've been reloading for 75 years and I have reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds using the exact same boolits, the exact same dies (that I haven't touched since setting them), and the exact same brass. What is going on?"

Experience reloader: "Solid and helpful answer"

"I've reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds!!!! Of course that is the right boolit, I adjusted the dies correctly 75 years ago, and that is the same brass!! Yes I have read every reloading manual ever made!!!"


If you want to see a blowup, go over to the reloading forum on Shotgun World and post that you substituted something in a shotgun shell load. There are guys there that have loaded a million of the exact recipe of trap load they got out of a book 75 years ago, and they claim 75 years of expert reloading experience. In reality they have 1 day of experience 27,375 times.





]

[9w1911]

I have seen a few threads like this on another site
and it goes like this.
"Hi guys I am new here and I want to reload, I got all of the stuff I need to load for my 38 spec but Cabelas just had this powder so a got a Lb any way." which leads to: "does anyone have load data for a 38 spec and IMR 4198?"

[leeggen]

Well said Stratsman. Now back to reading threads that teach me something rather than rants.
CD

[nodda duma]

Jason,

You've missed my point completely.
Please go back and re-read my OP.

Thank you.

No I got your point: You'd rather new folks RTFM than rely on other's experience to get them started.

Maybe you don't get mine. Stratsman above does.

[Bzcraig]

I am on the older side, 57, but a newer caster. I see both sides of this thread. New guy starts a thread before first looking for the answer. Irritating! The type of question asked nearly always reveals whether any research was done. On the other hand, there are some COB whose pat response is a rude 'use the search function' or 'read the stickeys,' then some unnecessary comment. IF I respond to what appears to be a question asked for instant gratification, my response is consistently, 'read as much as you can here and the manuals, you will FIND your answer.'

[montana_charlie]

We have the internet, along with all of it's search engines, at our finger tips!!! We have the most important advance in history concerning information, and people refuse to utilize it! WHY!!!!
They DID use it. That's how they GOT here.

When somebody asks a question that interests me, or starts a discussion that I get hooked by, it is a pretty thing common when I don't know diddly about the subject.

So, I fire up a search engine and click on a group of likely looking hits ... then start reading.
Sometime I might spend an hour (or two) just learning enough about a new subject to answer that question or make a comment in that discussion.

That (to me) is USING a search engine to find information, USING the internet to learn information, then setting out to USE the information to do something.

The questioner who is the subject of this thread is he who uses a search engine to land here among us ... and believes his research is finished. After all, he successfully found people who know 'the information' he needs.
All he has to do now is get some of us to spoon-feed it to him in bites that he can handle without choking.

CM

[9.3X62AL]

I have a bit different perspective, perhaps. I am VERY happy to see many more new adherents to the shooting/hunting/reloading hobbies, and it STRONGLY annoys me to see them getting discouraged from any quarter--whether it be from shortaged ammo & components and lazy, unresponsive manufacturers, from short-tempered potential mentors that lack the patience to share and guide, or from some antiquated idea that a new hobbyist needs to "pay some dues" before having access to good information. I don't know whether or not the many reloading manuals are available on Kindle or I-Books, but the publishers better get them to those venues mui rapidimente--because that is how younger folks read and learn these days. What my 58 year old self might think of that doesn't really matter.....it is the future, so get right--or get left.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=9.3X62AL;2323630]I have a bit different perspective, perhaps. I am VERY happy to see many more new adherents to the shooting/hunting/reloading hobbies, and it STRONGLY annoys me to see them getting discouraged from any quarter--"

You'n me, Al.....you'n me!

[Recluse]

No I got your point: You'd rather new folks RTFM than rely on other's experience to get them started.

You know, if you ever want to fly an airplane, you have to do both--you have to RTFM (ground school) as well as rely on other's experience (flight instructor) in order to get going. The reason is pretty clear: To try and keep you alive and the equipment (airplane) intact.

Yet, there is exactly zero shortage of people out there who because they play Microsoft Flight Simulator and other online aviation games are convinced that they could hop in an actual airplane and actually fly with little or no help.

Why, they just need to ask a question or two to clear a few pesky minor details up and they're on their way.

RTFM helps new reloaders/casters ask pertinent questions to their own needs and ability level. It will also impress upon them the need for safety and not to do stupid things. Several years ago, I put a fellow's index and middle finger in a ziplock bag after he blew them off via a bad reload that blew up his gun while his hand was still wrapped around it.

While waiting on the ambulance, we asked him where the hell did he learn to reload. "The internet," he told us. "I went on YouTube and watched a few videos, then to a gun forum and asked a few questions and figured that was all there was to it."

I felt like throwing his fingers in the trash can and walking away.

In the military we had to RTFM (schools) and we relied on others' experience (instructors, OJT). God and Heaven both help you if you asked a ******* question that was a ******* question because the answer was in Chapter effing One of the manual.

In the corporate world where I spent 20 years, you had to RTFM (education) as well as rely on others' experience (supervisors, bosses, clients). We didn't hire people, pay them and then say, "OK now, since you don't know damned thing and are too lazy to bother with college or trade school, we'll just put the brakes on everything we're doing and everything we've learned so we can make you feel special by answering your every question while paying you a nice salary."

And it's also a matter of respect. I've been reloading for decades, but metallic--not shotshell. When I picked up a MEC 650 for a good deal, I went to several shotgun forums, signed up, read read read and read some more. Bought several manuals. When I would follow a thread in which there was something I didn't understand, I PM'd someone who looked like they had a good grasp on the subject and explained that while experienced in metallic, I was a rookie in shotshell and in spite of the stickies and manuals, I was still a bit confused.

I had members bending over backwards to help me out. Because I respected their experience, skill and knowledge and made an effort to know what I was asking about rather than showing up with a very low post count and asking some questions and expecting answers.

In just the past year to eighteen months, I've seen a number of new members come on here and ask a few questions, then ARGUE with us over the answers, then get NASTY because we either ignored them or told them to go pound sand, and THEN run off to another forum and call us a bunch of "know it all *******s."

It doesn't take but a handful of those incidents and I shut down when it comes to the hand out offering help to newbies. I know it's not fair to categorize all new members/casters/reloaders like that, but the ones who REALLY want to learn how to cast boolits and handload awesome rounds. . . they stick around. Of course, they also read the stickies, have manuals and have generally began doing their homework which keeps them from asking "Can I tumble-lube non-TL boolits?"


I am on the older side, 57, but a newer caster. I see both sides of this thread. New guy starts a thread before first looking for the answer. Irritating! The type of question asked nearly always reveals whether any research was done. On the other hand, there are some COB whose pat response is a rude 'use the search function' or 'read the stickeys,' then some unnecessary comment. IF I respond to what appears to be a question asked for instant gratification, my response is consistently, 'read as much as you can here and the manuals, you will FIND your answer.'

I've gone toe-to-toe with a few of my fellow COBs over the standard "READ THE BLANKETY-BLANK STICKIES!" response to some questions--but primarily those were questions I didn't consider to be pre-K entry-level questions ("Can I tumble lube non. . .) My search abilities are slowly improving, but they are improving because I don't particularly like bothering people with questions in which I KNOW the answers are out there but are too lazy to go and find them.

On occasion, I've even prefaced a question with "I am just flat feeling too lazy to try and wade through three-thousand google responses looking for. . ."

But when you have a poster with a "join date" of only several days or maybe weeks, a post count of between zero and five, and the question reads, "Hi. New to this place. Have never reloaded and not sure if I'm going to buy a Lee reloader press or a Dillon 1050, what is the difference and what do you recommend? Thanks" that poster gets instantly ignored.

And I'm with WILCO on this one--we seem to be getting more of them.

:coffee:

[canyon-ghost]

I own several reloading manuals. A paperless society? hmm... http://www.youtube.com/embed/V_gOZDWQj3Q?rel=0

[jmort]

I would consider this a success

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?208084-Is-this-the-best-alloy-to-use&p=2323675#post2323675

[9.3X62AL]

Recluse, I didn't mean to imply that Wilco, you, or others are mistaken in some way. You all make valid points, and I'm not arguing them. What I think needs to be said, though, is this--a whole lot of those younger, newer posters never had a lot of the advantages I had as my shooting and reloading habits were formed--a Dad, uncles, and other mentors who saw to it that I got some firm foundations to base the structure of my hobby interest upon. My content of my first post in this thread is almost a verbatim quote from one of those mentors, the late Leo Reyes, to my question of getting into metallic reloading--"Buy the manual first, just like you did with shotshells earlier". I feel genuinely sorry for these young folks who didn't or don't have a Dad that took them afield, who cultivated friendships with good men and women that could expand my shooting/hunting/reloading horizons appropriately (that's right, women too--the late Blanche Miller was my Hunter Safety Course instructor in 1965). IF NOT US, THEN WHO? I know, I know--a few of them have manners and mannerisms that leave the impression that they have been raised by wolves. That can be refined, too. It's worth doing.

[Recluse]

Recluse, I didn't mean to imply that Wilco, you, or others are mistaken in some way. You all make valid points, and I'm not arguing them.

Didn't even cross my mind to take it that way--especially seeing as how I'm in that camp of being glad to see the serious shooters (old and young alike) becoming reloaders and casters, even though it means more competition for galena. :)

I just grow weary of the lazy instant-gratification mentality because those folks rarely stick with anything and we expend all this energy and effort and they could honestly give a you-know-what less.

:coffee:

[44Vaquero]

True reading is a lost art or a dyeing skill, take your pick! Char-gar got it right, take a look at your kids or grand kids text books. My daughters Jr.-hi history text looks like a series of several hundred text messages! To actually sit and read a instructional text from cover to cover in-order to glean as much information as possible is foreign to many today. Hell, reading Cliff-notes would take to long for some!

[Blacksmith]

The problem is you don't know how much you don't know.

Reloading when done properly is a satisfying rewarding hobby. However if done wrong it can damage equipment, hurt people, and can kill not only the reloader but innocent bystanders as well.

As in any complex undertaking there are very few simple answers. So the answer that may be completely correct if underlying factors A, B, C, D, E, and F are as specified change just one; say the type of primer, or style of bullet and you can get much different results.

If you don't have a full understanding of what the main variables are and what problems to look for as well as some knowledge of the interaction of those variables then you won't know what question to ask. If you ask the wrong question or assume to much about the answer you may be headed for trouble. And that trouble can give reloading a bad name and serve as a reason for regulation.

The proper answer for most complex questions is "It depends." and you need a basic understanding before you can answer all the details the answer depends on.

I am all for new reloaders we were all new once upon a time but if you are new learn what and how much you don't know so you can ask the right question and interpret the answer. One good manual will get you a lot closer and several manuals will get you further faster than shot in the dark internet questions.

Remember her boyfriend is a French model and she met him on the internet.

[MaryB]

For all those saying RTFM remember the shortage of everything? It included manuals, I had 2 on back order for 2 months. They just came 4 weeks ago. I am proimarily a book person but of you can't get them right now what does it hurt to ask and start learning?

[Dean D.]

Lots of good points have been raised here from both sides of this issue. I would like to remind all of our experienced casters/loaders that a reply is not always necessary or called for when you see an often asked question. I'm reminded of an adage my Mother taught me as a young lad: "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." This is so true on an internet forum which prides itself on being both welcoming and civil. ;)

[Lights]

Some do read the manuals, But they get confused because the Hornaday manual has powder X starting charge at 4.7gr and 5.4gr as a max load with bullet Y. Then Nosler states that powder X has a starting charge of 4.9gr and a max load of 6.0gr for bullet Y. What???? Both are the same powder and basically the same 200gr bullet. What gives with the different starting charges and max charges. That is where all the questions start. What's a new reloader supposed to do? Believe Hornaday or Nosler, Richard Lee, Hodgons or ??????? They all have different info for basically the same load. Don't get me wrong I have been reloading for over 25yrs and I still can not find all the answers for some of the questions I have in a book. Now through cast boolits into the mix and there are even more. Give these newcomers a break, they don't have 40yrs to read all of the confusing and sometimes contradicting info that has ever been published.

Now with that said. Why the heck hasn't the reloading manual publishers put there manuals online yet? So that a person can buy it and download it online? Then give you the option to pay for updates when they come out? I could put all the reloading manuals ever published on one memory card or USB stick. They would not take up half of my reloading bench. They would all be able to be viewed on a kindle or I pad. Yes I wish they would step into the year 2013 and not be stuck in the 1990's.

OK I feel better now.:D

[Recluse]

For all those saying RTFM remember the shortage of everything? It included manuals, I had 2 on back order for 2 months. They just came 4 weeks ago. I am proimarily a book person but of you can't get them right now what does it hurt to ask and start learning?

Mary,

I bought probably close to a dozen various reloading manuals for folks I taught or mentored in the past eighteen months. Got some at second-hand bookstores, others at gun shows, a few at estate sales, one on Craigslist and the rest on Amazon.com. Didn't pay retail--or even close to it--for any of them. I can't recall Powder Valley ever being out of the reloaders' guides for the respective powders they sell--and those are free with an order or something ridiculously cheap like a dollar plus postage without an order.

Additionally, Handloader, from Wolf Publications, is available for an electronic subscription for something like $22 that also includes their other two magazines. I subscribed to that electronically for the past several years and it is full of pretty good information for beginning and intermediate reloaders.

:coffee:

[Hickory]

Some do read the manuals, But they get confused because the Hornaday manual has powder X starting charge at 4.7gr and 5.4gr as a max load with bullet Y. Then Nosler states that powder X has a starting charge of 4.9gr and a max load of 6.0gr for bullet Y. What???? both are the same powder and basically the same 200gr bullet. What gives with the different starting charges and max charges. That is where all the questions start. What's a new reloader supposed to do? Believe Hornaday or Nosler, Richard Lee, Hodgons or ?????

Your question/observation is a classic example of why it is important to start reloading with reduced loads.
The chambers in Noslers, Hornady's guns or universal receivers may be different than guns produced by Savage, Ruger, Remington or Winchester. Start low and work up. That is the safe and smart way to reload.

[Lights]

Your question/observation is a classic example of why it is important to start reloading with reduced loads.
The chambers in Noslers, Hornady Hornady guns or universal receivers may be different than guns produced by Savage, Ruger, Remington or Winchester. Start low and work up. That is the safe and smart way to reload.

Yes I know that. But a newcomer would think it is confusing and contradictive. Then have questions as to why.

[Sensai]

Now, that apprentice has the capability of asking the questions worldwide and getting answers from any number of 'masters'. And the apprentices are just as human as any have ever been, and they'd still prefer to ask a question for a short answer rather than studying or discovering the answers themselves.

Therein lies the problem! Now the apprentice can ask the question worldwide and get the answer from anyone who wishes to answer, not necessarily the "master". If there's no foundation, the entire knowledge structure is questionable. The foundation has to be from either manuals that have been vetted by time and user's responses or a flesh and blood mentor of known character and knowledge. I would rather answer basic questions than have an inexperinced person experiment to find the answer. I would much rather have that person find (and learn) the basics from a manual and then hone their knowledge and skills from conversational posts online. I trust the knowledge of the vast majority of the members of this forum, but the answers I get here still go through my own experience filter before I implement them. What about these new casters with no experience filters? Just remember "Takeoffs are optional, landings are manditory!"

[Char-Gar]

If there is anything significant in this thread, other than the folks looking for short cuts being irritating, it is the safety factor. Producers of load books have the proper testing equipment, technicians and lawyers looking over their shoulders with a copy of "Prosser on Torts" close at hand. Therefore, there is a reasonable expectation that you can use their stuff and not get hurt.

Run to the internet and who you get to answer your questions, is just the luck of the draw. You may be a fellow who has been around the track enough time not to give out dangerous information, but even his stuff is not lab tested. Then again, you are just as likely to get some buffoon that is as dumb about reloading as the old dog that "did not know come here from sic em".

All to often, I have seen some buffoon give out bogus information in response to a question. Then along comes an old hand and issues a correction, and then a gaggle of other buffoon descend to beat on him for challenging buffoon No. 1. The net result is the OP may be confused by the contradiction and have to choose between following wise counsel or joining the herd of buffoons and becoming one of the "Kaboom Gang".

Just my observations after 55 years of reloading and 15 years on this and other internet reloading forums. I am also a rather serious student of human nature, which at times is a source of humor and other times a form of masochism.

[Char-Gar]

Yes I know that. But a newcomer would think it is confusing and contradictive. Then have questions as to why.

Why?, why?, why?, is the question a child asks most. My mentor in handloading was a man named W.H. "Worth" Palmer. He was old enough to be my grandfather and had been a gunsmith since way before WWII. If I would have pestered him with "why" questions, he would have show me the door. I knew enough to just follow his advise and the answer to the unasked "why" would come soon enough.

[3006guns]

Why?, why?, why?, is the question a child asks most. My mentor in handloading was a man named W.H. "Worth" Palmer. He was old enough to be my grandfather and had been a gunsmith since way before WWII. If I would have pestered him with "why" questions, he would have show me the door. I knew enough to just follow his advise and the answer to the unasked "why" would come soon enough.

I thought I knew something about reloading and firearms in general, until I met a similar gentleman about twenty years ago. His teaching "technique" was simple.....if you have to ask "why" then you probably don't have the brains to figure it out yourself. This pushes the student into a deductive reasoning mindset and working out the answer for himself. The reward? A gleam in the old man's eye as he patted you on the shoulder and said "Very good young man".

We have hordes of new reloading buffs thanks to the current political situation and, as already mentioned, they all want to know how RIGHT NOW! Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of the Cast Boolits page would be effective, "If you are new to reloading in general, please purchase a good reloading manual or use the search function for information."

It won't stop the "I'm gonna post right away and get my info" crowd, but it might slow them down a bit.

[Char-Gar]

I thought I knew something about reloading and firearms in general, until I met a similar gentleman about twenty years ago. His teaching "technique" was simple.....if you have to ask "why" then you probably don't have the brains to figure it out yourself. This pushes the student into a deductive reasoning mindset and working out the answer for himself. The reward? A gleam in the old man's eye as he patted you on the shoulder and said "Very good young man".

Good teachers know by training or by instinct that knowledge we root out ourselves will stick with us as long as we live. Bones of knowledge we are thrown only last for a short time. A good teacher will guide us in our learning but will not do it for us.

[searcher4851]

I welcome the newcomers aboard, if they are seriously interested in reloading and casting their own.
I consider them to be "seriously interested" if in their questions they show that they've at least read enough and learned enough to intelligently frame the question.
I've seen so many threads where what should be a simple question is asked, but there either isn't enough information in the question to reasonably answer it, or the questioner can't answer the questions of potential responders, to clarify the original question. Hard to give accurate responses to inaccurate or incomplete questions.
I'm not saying that the person has to know so much that they shouldn't have to ask any questions, I'm just saying that it'd be appreciated if they had enough background and knowledge that they could ask a question with enough information in it that the question COULD be answered without a whole lot of questions needing to be asked to just clarify the original question.

[WILCO]

And I'm with WILCO on this one--we seem to be getting more of them.

For all those who agree with me, Thank You for seeing my point and offering your supportive views. For those who disagree with me, thanks for stating your opinions, as I wish you all the best whilst you move forward.

[montana_charlie]

Some do read the manuals, But they get confused because the Hornaday manual has powder X starting charge at 4.7gr and 5.4gr as a max load with bullet Y. Then Nosler states that powder X has a starting charge of 4.9gr and a max load of 6.0gr for bullet Y. What???? Both are the same powder and basically the same 200gr bullet. What gives with the different starting charges and max charges. That is where all the questions start. What's a new reloader supposed to do?
That's a pretty easy question for a guy like me to answer.

When I started reloading it was while stationed in Germany.
I kept my tools and supplies in a 'box' in my barracks room, and I carried it to the Rod and Gun Club where I did my reloading on one of the tables.
I had two reloading manuals from which I got ALL of my information, and nobody else around me was reloading ammunition ... ergo, no 'master' to ask questions of.

So, the answer to what the new reloader is supposed to do is to read ALL of the information in the manual ... not just the powder charge and bullet weight.

The front of the manual teaches how to use the tools to build reliable ammunition.
The loads in the manual are safe loads. Build yours using ALL of the same details and you will succeed.
The expanded information provides instruction on how to refine loads for better accuracy. Read that until you understand it, then proceed.

If a person wants to accomplish something, and knows it is up to him to make it work, he will give it the amount of attention and effort it deserves.
If he plans to use 'help' in order to cut corners he may reach a goal, but he never 'accomplishes' anything.

CM

[jcwit]

I answer the guy with a sensible question, but the dude that asks "anyone out there know what the load is for a ------- caliber? They get no answer or maybe I suggest they buy a manual.

Many times someone has asked a question and they've already gotten a bunch of intelligent replies I usually pass on.

[MaryB]

Out here in the boonies I could not find manuals on Craigslist, none at Goodwill (the only second hand bookstore), and I do not place a lot of online orders, my gun dealer gets the bulk of my powder and primer business.


Mary,

I bought probably close to a dozen various reloading manuals for folks I taught or mentored in the past eighteen months. Got some at second-hand bookstores, others at gun shows, a few at estate sales, one on Craigslist and the rest on Amazon.com. Didn't pay retail--or even close to it--for any of them. I can't recall Powder Valley ever being out of the reloaders' guides for the respective powders they sell--and those are free with an order or something ridiculously cheap like a dollar plus postage without an order.

Additionally, Handloader, from Wolf Publications, is available for an electronic subscription for something like $22 that also includes their other two magazines. I subscribed to that electronically for the past several years and it is full of pretty good information for beginning and intermediate reloaders.

:coffee:

[xs11jack]

I like jmortimers opinion too. Also I notice that even though everything is suppose to be on computer and instantly at our fingertips, school kids nowadays have 40lb backpacks to take to school everyday. And still, graduating seniors can even read at a 4th grade level.
Ole Jack

[Blacksmith]

Out here in the boonies I could not find manuals on Craigslist, none at Goodwill (the only second hand bookstore), and I do not place a lot of online orders, my gun dealer gets the bulk of my powder and primer business.

Then perhaps your first question should have been Where can I buy a manual and what is a good one. I, having been in the used book business, would have probably sent you to Addall.com with a couple of recommended titles and mentioned that sometimes Amazon would be cheaper. It would not have surprised me if you would have also gotten several offers from other forum members for manuals. We also have a wanted to buy section.
http://used.addall.com/

A title search for the term Lyman Reloading brings up 197 hits, not all are manuals.
RCBS reloading gives 21.
Sierra Bullets gives 92.
A keyword search for Reloading Manual gives 186 including many Loadbooks.

It all goes to asking the right question which if you can't find a manual is "Where can I get a manual?" not "What is the load for a .57 1/2 caliber Goloudenboomer?"

Welcome MaryB to reloading and boolet casting. You will find all kinds of information here because with almost 30,000 members we have people with experience in most areas of human endeavor.

[MaryB]

I just joined so a couple months ago I didn't have this resource. Getting back into reloading after being out of it for 30 years.

[KCSO]

My wife bought me a Kindle in an attempt to drag me into the REAL world. It is full of gun books and I have yet to even look at it. In the defence of the questions here sometimes folks just want to see what works for you. Ever sit with another reloader and trade favorite recipies?

[montana_charlie]

And still, graduating seniors can even read at a 4th grade level.
According to General Ordierno, only about 23 percent of American youth can meet Army physical and education requirements for recruitment.

They are looking hard at women in combat roles because there aren't enough males who are worth a sh_t.

CM

[sparkz]

Lookin at the other side,, I am still trying to learn about reloading brass, and I do read about everything we can get as well as what I can find, But there still sometimes I can not find what I need to be clear and as i want to be safe Il ask a stupid question or if someone has done it before and what they thought about whatever it is, so tho i read and think i may know Il still ask to be safe and to be sure I understand the printed word,, so as I try to learn Il most likley ask dumb stuff but I do learn so much from this site and get lots of diffrent methods not in many books we have I do have a few lyman and lee books as well as some others but questions and answers are free and mistakes cost ya big, maybe even your life or hand, eyes ect,,

Patrick & Sean Campbell

[Love Life]

They are looking hard at women in combat roles because there aren't enough males who are worth a sh_t.

CM

Sad shame that our women have to make up for the weak bodies of the male population.

There are meat eaters and leaf eaters. Which one would you want fighting with you?

[mold maker]

I started to reload and cast in the early 60s. There was no internet, mentors, or even a telephone in the home. There were only a few gunrags with commercial listings of equipment and books. There was 1 bait and tackle shop that started carrying a few guns. Like many now, I bought a gun with the savings of over a year. Ammo was an expense that needed more months of savings, thus the interest in loading.
Several long distance phone calls (more expense) got me a used manual and the bate shop started carrying some basic supplies and equipment.
I had no place to ask for help, and knew no one that I trusted for the skinny I needed.
I know how todays nubies feel with all the dangers and hazards they read about and see on news and media. (and even here)
Have we become so elitist and hoity toity that we are willing to turn them away, with smart remarks? After all they have been directed to the "best source" of info, in one place. This isn't a book with an index and organized listing of contents. The search feature, is hard to get used to, and often the information is conflicting. The search will bring up unrelated info just because of one word in the text.
If your not willing to share info with the new folks, this forum may have passed you by.
You might possibly want to start a gossip column for old fogies with memory loss.
My wise Grand Dad told me that, "knowledge, not shared, is wasted."

[Char-Gar]

Lookin at the other side,, I am still trying to learn about reloading brass, and I do read about everything we can get as well as what I can find, But there still sometimes I can not find what I need to be clear and as i want to be safe Il ask a stupid question or if someone has done it before and what they thought about whatever it is, so tho i read and think i may know Il still ask to be safe and to be sure I understand the printed word,, so as I try to learn Il most likley ask dumb stuff but I do learn so much from this site and get lots of diffrent methods not in many books we have I do have a few lyman and lee books as well as some others but questions and answers are free and mistakes cost ya big, maybe even your life or hand, eyes ect,,

Patrick & Sean Campbell

I am glad you have the books and utilize them and your interest in safety, which is indeed very important. I do however have one question: How do you know the answer you get from strangers on the internet will not lead to something unsafe?

I got interested in handloading in 1958 and went down to our local gunsmith who also sold reloading stuff. He took me to his reloading room, showed me a Pacific press, installed a 30-06 FL die, lubricated a case and had me operate the press to size, decap and expand the neck. He then handed me a seating die and explain what it was for. He pointed to a powder measure and scales and told me what they did. He then sold me a Lyman 41 manual and showed me out the door. I read the No. 41, went back and bought a Pacific press, scales, Lyman 55 measure and a set of dies along with some CH case lube. That was all there was to it, and here I am still pumping the handle on various Pacific presses, turning out great ammo.

Caveat: There are some real idiots on this and other internet sights that deal with reloading. You are better off trusting your hand and eyes to Lyman, Lee and your own common sense. Questions are alright, if you know enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, but if you could do that, you would not need to ask the question in the first place.

I am not trying to discourage you or be critical. I am trying to affirm your basic approach to things, but wave a big red flag in front of your face. Dependency on internet boards for answers can often not be very smart. I have seen foolishness posted as answers to questions that curl my toes.

[Char-Gar]

If your not willing to share info with the new folks, this forum may have passed you by.
You might possibly want to start a gossip column for old fogies with memory loss.
My wise Grand Dad told me that, "knowledge, not shared, is wasted."

I am also a grandfather and let me add: Foolishness shared is often dangerous.

I am not adverse to helping new folks and often do so, but read my post above for a clear understanding of my concern.

Some of the answers given are clear, direct and to the point. Some of the answers given are convoluted, do not address the basic question and do nothing but confuse the new person. Some of the answer given are utter foolishness and sometimes dangerous. This thing is far more complex than "ask or don't ask" or "answer or don't answer". There are some real issues here on this subject that should not be dismissed out of hand.

I am all for helping, but in a huge open forum like this, asking can be helpful, confusing, misleading or even dangerous. I am concerned for the new person who doesn't have the basis to know which of the above he/she is receiving. That is why a reliable handloading books should be their basic resource. Arms with the knowledge gained there, then they have a decent chance of surviving the idiots who love to answer question.

The basic issue of the OP was with people who came here with no background and are unwilling to acquire the basics from a reliable source before asking questions here. I think that is a valid concern and should not be subject to misinterpretation and derision.

[sparky45]

I am glad you have the books and utilize them and your interest in safety, which is indeed very important. I do however have one question: How do you know the answer you get from strangers on the internet will not lead to something unsafe?

I got interested in handloading in 1958 and went down to our local gunsmith who also sold reloading stuff. He took me to his reloading room, showed me a Pacific press, installed a 30-06 FL die, lubricated a case and had me operate the press to size, decap and expand the neck. He then handed me a seating die and explain what it was for. He pointed to a powder measure and scales and told me what they did. He then sold me a Lyman 41 manual and showed me out the door. I read the No. 41, went back and bought a Pacific press, scales, Lyman 55 measure and a set of dies along with some CH case lube. That was all there was to it, and here I am still pumping the handle on various Pacific presses, turning out great ammo.

Caveat: There are some real idiots on this and other internet sights that deal with reloading. You are better off trusting your hand and eyes to Lyman, Lee and your own common sense. Questions are alright, if you know enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, but if you could do that, you would not need to ask the question in the first place.

I am not trying to discourage you or be critical. I am trying to affirm your basic approach to things, but wave a big red flag in front of your face. Dependency on internet boards for answers can often not be very smart. I have seen foolishness posted as answers to questions that curl my toes.

Who knows, he might have even asked YOUR advise, not your opinion, just your advise.

[Char-Gar]

Who knows, he might have even asked YOUR advise, not your opinion, just your advise.

Sparky..That is "advice" and not "advise". Advice is a noun and advise is a verb. There is a different, but often there is there is no difference between advice and opinion. If somebody likes and follows it, then it is advice. If they don't like it or follow it, than it is opinion.

So therefore, I will advise folks on the matter giving them my advice or opinion. My advice is to always refer to a loading manual for basic information. I advise folks to always refer to a loading manual for basic information. My opinion is that folks should always refer to a loading manual for basic information.

There now, you can have it any way you wish.

[TenTea]

Somehow, I missed this thread.

I particularly enjoyed post 31:


In my childhood all of my family spent the better part of our "down" time reading. Our home and our Grandparents homes were full of books, magazines and newspapers.

I read everything I could get my hands on and at times read the encyclopedia for entertainment.

When I wanted to load the first thing was a book a Sierra manual with a how too and much more. Got an old Lyman from the 40's after that. I read and thought about it a bunch before I ever loaded a round.

One of the best things school taught me was how to find answers I wanted! Some of the greatest things I have learned were en-route to finding other information!

I wish I knew how to give this to others.
J

...and post 51:

To the topic of the OP...

I would say that this is another example of human nature, but in a contemporary format... Who among us has not asked a friend/neighbor/family member how to do <something> because they were handy and we wanted the info quickly??? It happens in the workplace, too. Those examples have happened since before the printed word, because it was quicker to ask how to make a wheel than it was to figure it out yourself.

With the advent of books, a writer/printer like Gutenberg in Germany could figure out a process and print it, to be read by a guy in England years later... Voila!!! No more need for in-person, voice instruction. Still, it was often quicker to get the info you needed directly from the master to the apprentice, so the apprentice would still ask questions for quick answers.

Now, that apprentice has the capability of asking the questions worldwide and getting answers from any number of 'masters'. And the apprentices are just as human as any have ever been, and they'd still prefer to ask a question for a short answer rather than studying or discovering the answers themselves.

Nothing has changed in human nature; it's just that the apprentices' questions are now heard by thousands, rather than by one master.

I taught myself to load after reading and studying a couple manuals (Hornady & Lee) for a few months while gathering supplies. Then, it was trial and error...thankfully none of which harmed anyone.
I have always liked books.
There is a comfort for me, knowing I can hold them in my hands, open them up and find what I need at my fingertips.
Barring flood, fire, silverfish, fungus or theft...they will continue to serve me well.
Let's face it, I'm old fashioned and square.
I really enjoy the innerwebs due to the sheer volume of information that is available, but I don't yet trust them like I do a book.

Oh bother...

[1Shirt]

I like on line data, but have printed manuals up the wazoo, (ya can't ever have enough reference materials). Books and manuals are just plain cool and great for comparisons, and time frames, and powder changes and developments, and new bullet introduction, and new cartridges, (and obsolete ones in the old manuals), and on and on and on. Both work or I would not be spending so much time on this infernal machine!
1Shirt!

[Pat I.]

"I've noticed that there are a lot of questions being asked by the new folks"

Just hope the question the new guys don't start asking themselves is "Why in the hell did I ever decide to post anything on this forum or even think about casting bullets in the first place if asking a question is this much of a hassle to these people?"

I always thought old geezers by design loved to show off how much they know so I just not getting the problem. And like I said earlier if you don't like the question just skip the thread.

[Char-Gar]

Not a chance Pat, not a chance. We are dealing with a cultural paradigm shift that is bigger than this thread or anyone of us. They will continue to come to the Internet first for information, no matter how much we carp. We are not a threat to a flood of question. Hide and watch... hide and watch.

But I do feel a little better for being able to fuss a little and wish things were they way they once were. It is good therapy for many of us. The geezers need to piss and moan about the new generation and how they have all gone to hell in a hand basket. You really don't want to take that away from us do you? :-)

[dragon813gt]

Ever sit with another reloader and trade favorite recipies?

Absolutely not. I trust what's printed in manuals(current online load data counts) that has been pressure tested. And loads that I developed myself for my particular firearms. If a load does seem interesting then I will look in my manuals to see if it's a printed load. To many times I have talked to someone at the range about their loads. When I look them up they have been well over max. I don't play in that territory.

I think some of you are missing the point of the original post. It's not about new reloaders asking questions. It's about asking questions that if they spent half an hour reading a manual they would know the answer to. No one has a problem helping others that help themselves. It's those that want to be spoon fed that makes everyone worry.

You don't need a mentor or the internet to learn to reload. All you need is one manual and the ability to read and understand it. If you can't understand the information that's presented in the manual then maybe reloading isn't for you. It may sound harsh but that's life. Which is what you place in your hands when you reload.

[Down South]

It's a different generation of reloaders, casters, shooters. Back when many of us started, all we had was printed material. This was before Al invented the internet. Some of us had mentors and we just figured or hoped that they knew what they were doing or teaching us.
Now, answers can be obtained quickly and the younger generation is accustomed to getting their information this way.

[WILCO]

"I've noticed that there are a lot of questions being asked by the new folks"

Just hope the question the new guys don't start asking themselves is "Why in the hell did I ever decide to post anything on this forum or even think about casting bullets in the first place if asking a question is this much of a hassle to these people?"

I always thought old geezers by design loved to show off how much they know so I just not getting the problem. And like I said earlier if you don't like the question just skip the thread.




I've noticed that there are a lot of questions being asked by the new folks that.....
are easily answered by reading the reloading manuals.

Patric,

It is really sick and ignorant that you would quote me out of context and then go off on a rant. You clearly have failed to grasp what my point was, and the consequential explanations therewithin. It's a sign of social decay and a general dumbing down of society, when newcomers to any endeavor, fail or refuse to educate themselves on the basic principles of the chosen task at hand. The fact that you continue on with misquotes and name calling of the older sect, proves my point that either you have a handicap of reading comprehension or have morphed into a troll. I have never refused to help any member of these forums, real or fictitous, with any or all questions put forth to me. I enjoy helping folks learn. Those folks shouldn't be afraid to ask questions.
Just learn the basics so we can communicate. Nobody goes to france without first learning some french. And one last thing, you sent me a friend request many moons ago, that I accepted. I must've been doing something right for you to request it.

[Love Life]

:popcorn:

[WILCO]

:popcorn:

What toppings are you eating there Love life? :bigsmyl2:

[Love Life]

Ranch flavored seasoning.

[9.3X62AL]

Just butter and salt for me, thanks. Love me some Orville Redenbacher's!

[WILCO]

You guys crack me up! :)

[Char-Gar]

Guys, it is OK (i.e. just fine) for good folks to have different points of view on any subject under the sun. I do understand how we can feel diminished and under attack when other disagree, for that is a human response. But, in this case it isn't worth the spat. There is not anything of value at stake. Both WILCO and Pat I are mature, accomplished and long term casters and shooters. Let's just say there are a variety of opinions on the subject at hand and let it go.

I can be as critical and challenging as anybody on this board, so don't take this attempt at peace making as an indication that I have gone soft :-). I just think this is the wrong subject for two good people to get crosswise. When the time comes to lead a charge about a significant and changeable issue, I will lead the charge, but this isn't it. So cool it dudes, pretty please with sugar on it!

Just good old fashion butter and salt will do for me thank you.

[WILCO]

So cool it dudes, pretty please with sugar on it!

I'm cool Char-Gar. Facts are facts and misquotes are false things. [smilie=s:

[Love Life]

You might not want to put sugar on it, or Mayor Bloomberg may ban your request for peace. For the children...

[blackthorn]

Sometimes a friend will suggest a load that he/she has been successful with. If that load does seem interesting then I will look in my manuals to see if it's a printed load. Unfortunately, when I look them up, often they are well over maximum. I find myself very reluctant to answer a question posed by someone who (at least) appears to have little or no basic understanding of what is needed. I certainly agree with the point(s) put forth by Wilco. Too often (in my opinion) these days people just ask questions when the answers are in the “stickies” at the top of the very forum in which the question was posed.

[Pat I.]

Patric,

It is really sick and ignorant that you would quote me out of context and then go off on a rant. You clearly have failed to grasp what my point was, and the consequential explanations therewithin. It's a sign of social decay and a general dumbing down of society, when newcomers to any endeavor, fail or refuse to educate themselves on the basic principles of the chosen task at hand. The fact that you continue on with misquotes and name calling of the older sect, proves my point that either you have a handicap of reading comprehension or have morphed into a troll. I have never refused to help any member of these forums, real or fictitous, with any or all questions put forth to me. I enjoy helping folks learn. Those folks shouldn't be afraid to ask questions.
Just learn the basics so we can communicate. Nobody goes to france without first learning some french. And one last thing, you sent me a friend request many moons ago, that I accepted. I must've been doing something right for you to request it.

Not agreeing with someone doesn't make me sick, ignorant, a troll, or my posts a rant. The subject of this thread no matter how much of the title I pasted into my post is people not being happy about certain questions unless the asker accomplishes a series of set tasks set forth by other people. I don't agree with that and don't figure any question is a bad one no matter when it comes in a person's learning curve. My reading comprehension is at least average as far as I know and since I'm a lot closer to 58 than 57 consider myself part of the geezer society, or at least a probationary member with full admittance to the club just around the corner. I don't consider being called a geezer an insult anyway since if you've made it to that point you must have been doing something right and don't use it as a term of disrespect. I'll gladly wear the title of geezer because that means I'll be here to wear it. I didn't mean to upset you over such a piddling subject. I just don't agree with you and don't understand why if something is such an issue with people they just don't ignore it and not read the threads.

The simple fact of the matter is that printed material is passé with younger people no matter how much we might not like it and they're going to come to the internet to get answers. The same could be said with calculators taking over for pencil and paper or the telephone taking over for letters and the pony express. Time marches on and older people never like the results.

As far as the friend request, I certainly wouldn't consider you my enemy just because we disagree over such a trivial subject. I disagree with a lot of things people say and do but that certainly doesn't make them my enemy. I find there's a lot of serious things going on that are actually important and this isn't one of them to me and maybe my responses show it. Maybe it's time for me to move on to bigger and better things and stay out of this thread.

[Recluse]

I think some of you are missing the point of the original post. It's not about new reloaders asking questions. It's about asking questions that if they spent half an hour reading a manual they would know the answer to.

*BINGO*

It's fairly easy, in many cases, to tell the lazy, me-first/me-only new member who signs up, asks the inane questions that even MINIMAL EFFORT in the stickies, or even with GOOGLE for crying out loud, would net the answers. The irony is that Google would probably net an answer faster than posting, then waiting for folks to get around to reading it and then answering it.

And then there are the new members who are new to reloading and/or casting who ask basic questions in which it seems they are seeking opinions as well as/in addition to factual answers. An example would be, "Do I need a thermometer before I can begin casting my boolits?" Yeah, some searching and some trips through the stickies will net you some opinions and discussions, but I think it's a valid newbie question.

Other questions I've seen involve water-dropping or top punches, etc. The material has been covered a zillion times, but in many cases it is subjective in answer and the new member/caster/reloader is looking opinions as well.

Absolutely 100% cool with that. THAT'S what forums are for--exchange of information and opinions.

But again, when I see a new member with a join date of yesterday, two posts to his name and the question reads something like: "Hi, new here. Thinking about reloading but not sure. What's the difference between a Lee Loader and a Dillon 1050 and which one is better. What an awesome forum. Thanks" I ignore it. That is indicative of someone too damned lazy to even do a minimal google search, let alone put any real effort into finding out ANYTHING about an endeavor he's "thinking" about getting into.


No one has a problem helping others that help themselves. It's those that want to be spoon fed that makes everyone worry.

You know, spoon-fed isn't even a real issue for me so long as the poster is serious. Some folks absorb information faster and more readily and in bigger chunks than others do. It's the pure lazy and/or me-first/me-only types that grind my gears with the mentality of, "Hey, stop what you're doing. *I'M* here, *I'M* special and *I* want an answer to something very basic that you know and *I* don't and there's no reason why *I* should have to waste a single second looking it up *MYSELF* when all of y'all are here. So help *ME* out, and *I'D* prefer you answer *MY* question FAST."

I just shake my head at those idiots and go on to the next post.

:coffee:

[Gibbs44]

OK guys, I understand needing a reloading manual. I've got two at the moment. I have the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition and the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd Edition. I am new, thanks for the help. My question is, for cast boolits, what manuals would you recommend above and beyond what I have listed here. Perhaps a sticky under reloading equipment for essential manuals. I'm sure a thread like that exists somewhere here, I probably just glazed over it as I'm apt to do.

[Gliden07]

In defense of some I did a lot of reading and trolling prior to even joining here. I had many of the answers before I asked them here. I did ask some of the redundant questions that I already knew the answers to, I asked to confirm the answers and to keep things safe! I attribute this read, check and cross check to my first smelting going as well as it did. Even though much of this is not difficult you're still using relatively high temp molten metals and gunpowder!! I would rather get some of this information from a 30 year casting/reloading veteran than from a book that has no personality. This is an online community and I think many of the new casters/reloaders are looking for that slap in the back telling them they're doing alright.

[9.3X62AL]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Manuals are good cast bullet-specific books. Another that is in dire need of updating is the 1986-vintage RCBS Cast Bullet Manual, Vol. 1. It contains just about the most comprehensive data listing for the 32 Magnum I've seen in print, among some other data seldom encountered outside of cast-specific venues. I find myself diving into both of these sources more frequently than most of my other printed matter germane to this hobby. Ken Waters' "Pet Loads" (the Wolfe Publishing compendium) is a third source that I need to stop borrowing from friends intermittently, and get a copy of my own. I have not read or skimmed Mr. Lee's publications, though many folks seem to like what their content has to say.

[BruceB]

Well, I have all the Lyman cast-bullet handbooks EXCEPT the most-recent. I found little in the latest one to interest me, but we're not talking about the veteran of over forty years of casting.

The Lyman books, to my eye, all have severe shortcomings in the load data, and some other shortfalls as well. Still, the basic how-to stuff is useful to the beginner.

As to the loading recipes, my own assemblage of data from decades of experiments serves me well and is proven to work with MY guns. Thank Heaven that our available powders are such a slow-changing list...

[Down South]

I started out with a Speer #9 hard back. That was the latest edition at the time. I still have it though the cover has come loose. It is amazing how the load data has changed through the years. I have a number of reloading manuals now. I use several of them to develop new loads with.

[WILCO]

As far as the friend request, I certainly wouldn't consider you my enemy just because we disagree over such a trivial subject.

Duly noted Pat. Thanks. Best wishes as we move forward. [smilie=s:

[Char-Gar]

and they pissed and moaned bout my generation and yours just a few years ago, If I recall we was lazy
:rolleyes:

Every generation feels there's was the "golden time" when things were done properly and subsequent generations are going to hell in a hand basket. That is how my grandfather felt and he was right except he was off a couple of generations.

[pmeisel]

Hey, in all fairness, I have been reloading for over 25 years and have about a dozen manuals. They still don't always answer all the questions. I could afford to buy more but I don't have room. Besides, when Lyman 46 disagrees with Lyman 49, a third opinion is in order!

[flounderman]

The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask. That said, the first reloading item you buy should be a reloading manual. The problem of asking here is that the most knowledgeable people are not always the ones to answer. After doing extensive reloading for 60 or so years, it doesn't take long to identify the experts and the wannabes. Someone new will assume he's getting his answer from a real expert, even if he is not. What seems like a simple question to us, might not be that simple to someone new. We need to encourage more people to get into reloading and shooting. I see questions that make me wonder if they have a manual and they probably don't. They could probably google the answer but they ask here because they think we are experienced. I don't answer most of the simple questions unless I see someone giving questionable advice and then I don't know whos advice they will follow. Bottom line is, what we think is a simple question isn't to the person asking and we need to encourage people new to the process to join us. As gun owners, we need all the help we can get.

[mold maker]

If someone poses a question you don't feel like answering, MOVE ON. If you feel generous, answer it so that your knowledge is passed on, to the new generation. Otherwise WRITE A BOOK and be done with it.
The new generation consider our forum on par with the books of today. The problem is when they seek info here, they get snipped at for showing their lack of knowledge. Being told to "LOOK IT UP" is rude. Answering the question and then reminding that there is an easy way for them to find the info, is just courtesy, and respect.
It also eliminates the banter and needless finger pointing.
That's not the image most of us want to show.

[dakotashooter2]

Many people now days don't have the patience to do the research. Remember this is the day of instant gratification. They want it and they want it NOW......................

[snuffy]

by PatI, Not agreeing with someone doesn't make me sick, ignorant, a troll, or my posts a rant. The subject of this thread no matter how much of the title I pasted into my post is people not being happy about certain questions unless the asker accomplishes a series of set tasks set forth by other people.

Not picking on you Pat, but I firmly believe there should be some basic rules as to how a question should be asked.

We all have seen 2 line questions asked like, "I have this here gun, what's the best bullet for it?" Instead he/she should have said, I have a 6 inch Ruger GP-100 in 357 mag, what's the best lead bullet for it? Then, I have ww-231, Alliant-unique, and WW-296, which one is best? Then, I want a mid range load for plinking, target and just plain fun.

The first question above would either be met with a bunch of questions from those that bothered to answer for more info, OR a bunch of guesses. If I see any variation of the first question, I move on to another thread. I may check back to see if the question has been refined to what he really wanted to know.

As for the instant gratification crowd, I sometimes do the work for them. By looking it up on a search engine, then providing a link. Perhaps I may copy and paste an excerpt from what I found. I would imagine it might embarrass him that he could have found it that easily, good! That'll larn im!

[montana_charlie]

I would imagine it might embarrass him that he could have found it that easily, good! That'll larn im!
I believe they are immune to feeling embarassment. While you are thinking, "That'll larn 'im." he's thinking, Uh ... right on, Dood. Could you check out some of those Google hits and post the parts I need?"

CM

[Pat I.]

If I see any variation of the first question, I move on to another thread.

I don't take anything anyone writes as picking on me. Sometimes people just don't agree which is how it should be. Your included quote is what I've said in every post I've made to this thread and is the answer to the problem some people are having with the way things are now. Obviously it's not a problem for everyone since the simple questions do seem to get answered. I just don't think telling someone to go read a manual, do a search of the stickies, or go search the internet is the way to get new shooters into the ranks. Do I think everyone should have reloading manuals and learn the basics before asking questions? Of course I do and have a pile of them sitting here and is the way I did it. Do I think someone should get upset if people ask questions without having any idea what they're talking about? No I don't and see not replying or reading the thread as a simple solution. I've seen threads about ingot moulds that had 15,000 views, which I thought was pretty silly, but I just passed them by and didn't let it bug me.

It's a new age with new technology and new ideas. Do I like it? Not really so I just put on blinders and stumble merrily along my path not sweating the small stuff.

[sparky45]

Not a chance Pat, not a chance. We are dealing with a cultural paradigm shift that is bigger than this thread or anyone of us. They will continue to come to the Internet first for information, no matter how much we carp. We are not a threat to a flood of question. Hide and watch... hide and watch.

But I do feel a little better for being able to fuss a little and wish things were they way they once were. It is good therapy for many of us. The geezers need to piss and moan about the new generation and how they have all gone to hell in a hand basket. You really don't want to take that away from us do you? :-)

Thank you for correcting my misuse of the word "advise" in post #97. However, I think I'll just let you correct your own misuse of the word "they" in this post. Or, maybe it's just a misspelling.

[Nickle]

This thread may not have seen another response in near 2 weeks, but I just bumped into it, and felt a need to respond.

There's good questions and some really DUMB questions asked on this site.

Sometimes I respond to the good questions, sometimes I leave that to others.

The really DUMB questions I usually totally ignore, as the question really should have never been asked in the first place.

Some observations though.

Seeing this is an online forum, it's pretty obvious to assume any poster has internet access.

Yes, this is a really good forum on the subject. The comment relating it to a Masters Degree isn't far off.

Many questions could be resolved by reading the manual is very true.

Yes, manuals cost money that some find difficult to spare, and at times can be hard (near impossible) to find. I'm going to "pick on" MaryB for a moment, as she represents a good example on this. Mary tries to buy locally (a good thing). She avoids buying online as much as possible (I understand that). So, she has a near impossible time getting her hands on decent manuals. I see way too many FFLs that have zero clue, and even some that shouldn't be in the business (and I'm a Type 06, OK). By the way, Mary is sharp, and she knows how to properly ask a proper question. She can ask me a question anytime. And, I'll either answer, or let someone else answer, then will answer if they don't.

So, some folks don't realize that some of the best info out there is available online. Some manuals are out there, available to download. Hodgdon has their loading data available on an interactive website. I don't remember the exact link to the castpics (IIRC, that's the name) site, but it's likely "in the stickeys".

By the way, I've found over the years that some of the best data out there is available from the powder manufacturers, followed by the bullet manufacturers. Lyman has the best cast bullet loading info. I'll tell you all something about Lee data. They don't research data. That's data already published from other sources. They do a good job of collating it all, but it's not their data. Some folks worship Lee, I don't. Yes, some stuff is good, but some isn't so hot, and some is pretty much worthless. Their data is real good for an EXPERIENCED reloader, but a new reloader is better served with Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer and Sierra.

All this said, something is obvious to me. Sure, we've seen a mass influx of new folks. The shortage has everything to do with it. Hey, the shortage even got me tooled up and started swaging bullets, because I've found I can't rely on any source to stay in stock of certain caliber bullets. It was easy for me, as I have used custom swaged bullets in match shooting before, and I already knew they were a superior product. What happened is I just went down the same road myself, and do several calibers, rifle and pistol.

Now, some of these new casters have gone to a dealer that was dumber than a box of rocks, who fed them a line of "bovine excrement" about how easy it was to cast bullets and load them. They have gotten so little information that they really don't know where to turn, or who to trust. I can tell you one group they DO trust, and that's the folks on this site.

So, how about we excuse their ignorance, help them out and teach them how.

How to ask a proper question.

How to find the proper answer, one that's in print and from a reliable source.

How certain processes work, and how to do them.

How to prevent leading, and why "hard cast" bullets aren't good.

And folks, ignorance is far better to deal with than stupidity. Ignorance is just that you don't know. That's forgivable, and we're all ignorant about something. How many of you know much about quantum physics (I don't)? Then I am ignorant about quantum physics, and I figure most of us are.

Stupid? That's when you're simply too dumb to learn. Too stubborn fits too.

[WILCO]

Seen the "1903 30-06 1000yds what mold!" thread and thought I'd bump this thread to the top. Just seems the OP wants an answer without doing the work involved to get it, which will ultimately lead to failure. I point this out merely for educational purposes for the new folks, to illustrate that there are many factors when pursuing such a goal. Only when one takes the time to learn about Boolit fit, Boolit design, alloy bhn, pressures, powder selection, Ballistic Coefficient and a whole host of other variables, can such a goal be achieved. I'm all for answering newbie questions, but people need to grasp the basics of what they want to do, which can only come from much research and invested time.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?211402-1903-30-06-1000yds-what-mold!&p=2366686#post2366686



I am working on fulfilling a dream of hitting a 1000yd target with my 1903 Springfield, with bullets I've cast and loaded.

What mold would you recommend for this shot and why. Please no guesses here, I am looking for an experienced, educated answer please. I don't mind discussion, I just don't want to be looking for the wrong mold.

[TXGunNut]

I'm all for answering newbie questions, but people need to grasp the basics of what they want to do, which can only come from much research and invested time.-WILCO


I agree, only appropriate answer is a question. Somehow I missed the thread but IF I knew something about shooting @ 1000 yds I'd ask him what distances he shoots and what works for him there....or I'd dismiss the post as the work of a troll and move on to another thread.

[Recluse]

What mold would you recommend for this shot and why. Please no guesses here, I am looking for an experienced, educated answer please. I don't mind discussion, I just don't want to be looking for the wrong mold.

Yep.

When I see new members post questions that are only lightly coached demands and qualified with the QUESTIONER telling the sources how to answer the question, two things happen:

1. I ignore the question.

2. I put the questioner on the Ignore List.

Done and done.

:coffee:

[Love Life]

Recluse- How long is your ignore list?

How's the great state of Texas these days?

[Recluse]

I'm over 100 now, with almost all being join dates of mid/late 2012 and later. Majority are probably 2013.

Just as Ted McGinley is the patron saint of Jump The Shark, "Frank" is the patron saint of my Ignore List as he made it on the list, then off, then on, then off, then on more times than John "I served in Vietnam" Kerry flip-flopped on his voting record.

Texas is hot, humid and tempers are getting short and volatile down here over Obama and Syria while so much other stuff is being ignored that is far more important. We now have another ranking state elected official beating on the Texas Independence drum--and I'm proud to say I contributed to his campaign and voted for him.

On a more upbeat note, two great things have once again began in the Lone Star State--Friday night high school football and Saturday college football. My beloved Red Raiders are off to a quick 2-0 start and the stinking Texas Dunghorns got their silver spoons licked plumb clean by BYU. As a bonus, both Notre Dame and USC lost this past weekend. As a bonus-bonus, I got several more chapters written and saved and on the hard drive.

Life is definitely looking good. We'll see how it is after the Thursday night TCU vs Texas Tech game in Lubbock. I'm thinking of cranking up the Cessna and making a quick trip to Lubbock to see that one. TCU will be our first real test and I'm worried. Our offense is fine but our D is still developing--we may get eaten alive.

I'll be flying there (Lubbock) the following Saturday for the TSU vs Tech game and the South Plains Fair. Gonna put my dad in the right seat and fly down to Midland and see the Confederate Air Force Museum down there. You can taxi right up to their hangar and tie down out front--pretty cool.

Ready for cooler fall weather.

:coffee: