Need your input for special needs hunt.

[NLS1]

Hey good folks. With hunting on the brain, I ask for your guidance. A little background first.

My father is 67 his birthday was today. He has been struggling with Parkinson's pretty badly and a form or alzheimers the last couple years, and his hunting days are nearing an end.

He has been talking about deer hunting at my sisters place out of town this fall with me. It would be great to take him out to enjoy the thrill and peace of hunting, it has been a long time since he hunted regularly, but I know he would love to. He was too busy working to provide for us, and tight on cash as us kids were growing up, and took a long time off from hunting that he loved. Now that we are all grown and have kids of our own, and I am in a position to be the one taking care of him, I would really like to help him get out there. This last fall we got to hunt squirrels with the Marlin 39a that he bought me 21 years earlier for my first gun! We had a great time sitting there watching the bushy tales!

The drawback now is that he is very unlikely to be comfortable handling a long gun anymore. He cant do complex motions any more, heavy stuff is difficult, and very loud muzzle blast really does a number on him. Where we hunt it is shotgun, muzzle loader, or archery. Handguns can be used during the regular firearm season which is what I use or my bow.

He had been excited to buy a crossbow which is legal during archery if you have a disability, and/or during firearm season. It would give him a long season, but lately he has lost interest because he knows it will be pretty heavy and difficult even if he has a crank, and he gets discouraged about the high cost since he may not be able to do it after he buys it. I offered to let him shoot my SBH 44 with gentle handloads, but it intimidates him with the complexity of operation and the sights are hard for him with the loss of fine motor skills. Plus he is kind of afraid of the recoil I think.

So I think I have a better idea. Let me explain, and then please give your input to help me get him hunting this fall!

I have an Encore rifle that I thought would be neat to turn into a handgun. I already load and cast for 30-30, so I thought maybe I could buy a 30-30 encore handgun barrel and grip and put a red dot sight on it for him.

Here is where I need your input.

With the Ranch Dog 165 mould I have, and some light loads, do you think it would be too much recoil? Having never shot an encore handgun I have no reference. I think the simpler operation and ease of using a rest will make it easier for him. Also a decent red dot should simplify the sights. I have some 8" ar500 plate targets we can practice with, simulating the vitals size of a deer, and a shot will likely be significantly less than 50 yards.

So give me your thoughts, is the 30/30 with the RD boolits with a light charge doable for him? If so, what level of a load should I make for extreme accuracy to build his confidence, and to assure a clean kill? What red dot or other sight should I consider? What length and twist rate barrel for the Encore, brand etc?

Should I do the 30/30, or something else?

I have H4981, H4350, Unique, Varget, H-110, tite group on hand, could buy others if need be.
Was thinking 50/50 since I have wheel weight lead, stick on, and some Lino.

I sure love my dad and would love to get him out there this fall, maybe even with my 12 year old son! That would be a hunt of a lifetime! Thanks everyone for the input!

Dan

[ammohead]

At 50 yards or less you should be able to dispatch a deer with velocities in the 1600 fps range. You ask many questions that will kind of all answer each other when you get started. Try 11 gr of unique. Can't tell you what the velocity will be not knowing the bbl length but if I was you I would strive for accuracy first. Most likely it will come near the higher end of velocity for a given powder anyway. Once you pass the sweet spot the groups will open. Your quest sounds way doable.
Some advise. Don't get hung up on finding the ultimate combination. Rather find something that works and take your enjoyment out of the time you will spend with your dad. I would give anything to go hunting with my late father, but only memories now.

[DIRT Farmer]

I had two last seasons with my Dad, spend the money it's worth it. Dad got the biggest rack of his hunting career after a massive farming accident. I moved a lot of big round bales and did a lot of scouting to put him with in 10 yards
I remember his last quail. I bought 3 dozen birds, yeah not like wild birds but we don't shoot our wild birds. Two sons and four grand sons had decided they would not shoot till Dad got a bird and no one had told any one else about the plan. It just fell togather

[NLS1]

At 50 yards or less you should be able to dispatch a deer with velocities in the 1600 fps range. You ask many questions that will kind of all answer each other when you get started. Try 11 gr of unique. Can't tell you what the velocity will be not knowing the bbl length but if I was you I would strive for accuracy first. Most likely it will come near the higher end of velocity for a given powder anyway. Once you pass the sweet spot the groups will open. Your quest sounds way doable.
Some advise. Don't get hung up on finding the ultimate combination. Rather find something that works and take your enjoyment out of the time you will spend with your dad. I would give anything to go hunting with my late father, but only memories now.


I had two last seasons with my Dad, spend the money it's worth it. Dad got the biggest rack of his hunting career after a massive farming accident. I moved a lot of big round bales and did a lot of scouting to put him with in 10 yards
I remember his last quail. I bought 3 dozen birds, yeah not like wild birds but we don't shoot our wild birds. Two sons and four grand sons had decided they would not shoot till Dad got a bird and no one had told any one else about the plan. It just fell togather


Thanks you guys! Well said, I sure want to make this happen for him. Agreed, I don't even care what the cost, or if it is the perfect setup, so long as he can manage it! Just want to hang out with him, and I plan to take lots of time off to do it!

I believe a 10-14" barrel would be great, and I would love to try a good unique load!

Thanks again for the reminder that it is about the time together most of all! I hope to make good memories!
Dan

[Digital Dan]

The Millett SP-1 is an excellent sight for your circumstances. Have been shooting the Lyman 311041 softer than 50/50 at 1600 fps from a Savage 24 with that sight and it's good for 1" x 5 @ 50 yards.

[Beerd]

Dan,

Parkinson's is a real booger. My hunting partner has been fighting it for almost 20 years. We don't hike near as far from the pickup as we used to.

Will you be hunting from some sort of ground blind? If so, with a designated "gun bearer" to pack the firearm for your Dad and a stable rest of some sort maybe a .30 cal rifle barrel for the Encore would work out. More weight & longer barrel means reduced recoil & muzzle blast.

Best of luck to you both.
..

[NLS1]

The Millett SP-1 is an excellent sight for your circumstances. Have been shooting the Lyman 311041 softer than 50/50 at 1600 fps from a Savage 24 with that sight and it's good for 1" x 5 @ 50 yards.

Thanks for the tip, I checked that one out and it certainly is affordable and a nice size. Yeah 1600 fps should get the job done, and the recoil would be pretty mild I bet. That is probably the mv I will go for.


Dan,

Parkinson's is a real booger. My hunting partner has been fighting it for almost 20 years. We don't hike near as far from the pickup as we used to.

Will you be hunting from some sort of ground blind? If so, with a designated "gun bearer" to pack the firearm for your Dad and a stable rest of some sort maybe a .30 cal rifle barrel for the Encore would work out. More weight & longer barrel means reduced recoil & muzzle blast.

Best of luck to you both.
..

Sorry to hear about your hunting buddy. Yes we will be in a large ground blind, and I will be the gun bearer! :) interesting idea on the rifle barrel, never thought of that.

Thanks you guys, nice to know it should be possible for him to handle those mild loads.

Dan

[JoeTheMechanic]

I have an Encore rifle that I thought would be neat to turn into a handgun. I already load and cast for 30-30, so I thought maybe I could buy a 30-30 encore handgun barrel and grip and put a red dot sight on it for him.


I hate to discourage you but im pretty sure that's a felony. I know its stupid but the atf says any weapon made from a rifle must have a 16" barrel and be 26" in length. since your particular firearm was manufactured as a rifle it has to fit those dimensions, even though you could use factory parts to make it a handgun. might not be an issue for you if your on private property but its something to be aware of.

[303Guy]

It might be easier for your Dad to shoot with the Encore in rifle form with a 30-30 rifle barrel. Perhaps you could get a lightweight stock for it. A muzzle break and earmuffs would take out most of the recoil if a slow powder is used - more muzzle blast. I am fortunate in that I can use suppressors. Would a suppressor be an option? That would take out the recoil and the muzzle blast.

[olafhardt]

I am 68 years old have had a quadruple bypass and have developed a tremor. In my condition accuracy is unimportant within reason. I just bought me a break barrel 410. Face it your talking about 25 yard shots. If he can hit a paper plate at 25 yards he can kill a deer. The 410 may not be legal in your state. Maybe put a 16 inch 357 barrel on your encore. We have been using 6.4 grains of unique behind a 158 swc boolet for a plinking load. It is plusser than a plus p 38 and will give good penetration. I have children who "baby sit"me, I am so proud of them and enjoy their company so much. By the way , if your dad served in Vietnam even if he just stepped foot there, he is due some big money from the VA. They are pretty fair and generous on this. They give me a nice federal grant to buy guns, molds, powder, brass, primers etc. The rest of it I just waste. Call the VA. If your dad was in Vietnam and has Parkinsons they want to give him money.

[MUSTANG]

My father had Parkinson's the last 12 years of his life, so I understand the challenges. About 5 years into my Fathers Parkinson's he had a DBS (Deep Brain Stimulation) inserted which helped immensely in controlling his tremors. If your father has not pursued/considered this medical treatment option, I believe he should based on our family experience.

As to the shooting, I agree with previous comments that a "Gun Bearer" and "Rest" for the Rifle or Encore is essential to help with stabilization. Another area that will be problematic will be trigger squeeze due to the hand and finger control due to shaking with Parkinson. My thoughts in this area would be to pursue (build an interface) the use of a Camera Shutter Release Remote Control Cable like the following:

78710

I used these extensively years ago with film cameras and have great confidence that they could be adapted to address the problem inn conjunction with a rest. The trembling issue would be mitigated because the movement would not be passed through the cabling, only the moment of trigger break. Building the interface will take some garage engineering.

Best wishes in getting your dad out to the field.

Mustang

[NLS1]

Thanks everyone for the great input. Some of it very creative in overcoming the Parkinson's limitations.

Well after all this, guess what!?
He told me a couple days ago that he has decided that he only wants to do a crossbow this year!? Good for him, and he says if he really likes doing it that way and feels hunting is still something he can do then he will look into a firearm option possibly in the future.

He is mostly concerned for the noise, although it didn't used to bother him. He says it pretty much shell shocks him, which I have witnessed. He says he can't control his bodys reaction anymore and that he almost gets paralyzed by the noise, so he expressed that he will likely not shoot firearms anymore. bummer

Since MN does not allow supressors at all, Argh, I guess we are kinda halted for now in regards to firearm hunting for him.

Again thanks everyone, had I known he was planning to give up on the firearms I would not have pestered you, but hopefully it will be helpful to someone else too!

The great news is my mom, in talking about all this, has expressed a desire to hunt with me finally! Cool huh!

Dan

[bikerbeans]

NLS1,


A good friend of mine has Parkinson and Parkinson dementia. Over the last few years, myself, his family and other friends have taken turns getting him out deer hunting. It is a challenge but it can be done. The biggest problem I saw was his uncontrolled motions which absolutely required a blind for him to have any chance of seeing a deer. One caution, with the dementia you really have to monitor firearm safety. My friend has a tendency to want to just "play" with his weapon while hunting so I had to enforce a no deer, no touch policy on him. Not his fault, just the nature of his disease. Good luck and enjoy your time with your father.


BB

[x101airborne]

I am sorry for your predicament. I wish you and your father the most and best times together. Exciting to hear your mother may take up the addiction.
I have used a 10 inch 308 Winchester on my frame stoked with 2400 and a 170 grain boolit. Kills hogs well and even my wife shoots it pretty well. I also use a super 14 in 30 herrett and it works just as well. I use 32 cal pistol pills for squirrels stoked with bullseye and the 311-281 bore rider for deer and hogs.

[MT Gianni]

I hate to discourage you but im pretty sure that's a felony. I know its stupid but the atf says any weapon made from a rifle must have a 16" barrel and be 26" in length. since your particular firearm was manufactured as a rifle it has to fit those dimensions, even though you could use factory parts to make it a handgun. might not be an issue for you if your on private property but its something to be aware of.
TC Encore is a beefed up Contender action manufactured and sold as dual usage Handgun and Rifle. The Feds have no problems with this. It is well researched and documented.