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View Full Version : My 200 gr boolits are 220gr



Jayhawkhuntclub
07-25-2013, 06:37 PM
My first batch of cast boolits seemed to go very well. By that I mean they look great (minus about 10% that I recast).
I am using a Lee TL452 200SWC mould. They came out at 0.458" a the widest point at the forward and rear most bands. They measured 0.453 at the lube grooves. But when I weigh them they range from 218 to 222 grains. What's up with that? I loaded them over 5.0 gr of Unique and after using a Lee factory crimp die, they all chambered fine in my 1911. I shot 1 5 shot group and got a 2.6" group at 20 yards from sandbags and no leading. Not a great group but not bad. The lead I used was reclaimed mystery lead that I was given. At first I thought maybe my mystery lead was the reason for them weighing 20 grains over. But what would be in them that is heavier than lead? Is my mould oversized enough to make them 220 grs? What do you think? Thanks!

dudel
07-25-2013, 06:46 PM
I have that mould and it drops fairly true at 200gr with WW.

What kind of scale are you using?

Jayhawkhuntclub
07-25-2013, 06:48 PM
RCBS 5-0-5
I checked it by weighing a 240 gr Nosler and it was dead on. So don't think it's the scale.

dudel
07-25-2013, 07:02 PM
just checking. 5-0-5 is a good scale.

Did you size them? If not, then my bet is the mould is good, and my guess would be the mystery metal.

If sized, then the mould could still be suspect. Interesting.

Jayhawkhuntclub
07-25-2013, 07:16 PM
I did not size them. But would sizing knock off 20 grains? Seems like a lot to me. But I'm a noob at casting.:confused:

BTW, I ordered my sizer today.

Donor8x56r
07-25-2013, 07:18 PM
You are using alloy softer than maker of the mold or you have slightly oversize mold.

Shiloh
07-25-2013, 07:20 PM
I use a lot of range scrap. My boolits run heavy, but not 10%

Shiloh

grampa243
07-25-2013, 07:35 PM
i would guess your lead is close to pure. i have had lead from pipes that cast over by 10% or more.

Jayhawkhuntclub
07-25-2013, 08:55 PM
It could be close to pure. I can make the next batch with straight wheel weights and compare.

leeggen
07-25-2013, 09:09 PM
Just do as your plan and stick with changing only one thing at a time. By doing so you will find the problem. Sounds like you got pure lead in those.
CD

RobS
07-25-2013, 09:19 PM
Hold the phone here.......pure lead will cast smaller than an antimony based alloy or even a lead tin binary. With that, if your mystery alloy was straight lead or near it then the mold is severly over sized as Lee does not spec their molds with pure lead. The mold was cut wrong and with it being the tumble lube groove designed SWC then it will likely wipe most of the micro bands off the boolit if you size them. Send it back to where you purchased it or send it back to Lee for a replacement is what I think unless you are happy with it and works for what you need.

spfd1903
07-25-2013, 09:58 PM
I have cast batches of these in both 10:1 alloy and 20:1. Highest weight was 205 grain. Average was 202 grain.

Jayhawkhuntclub
07-26-2013, 09:50 PM
I measured 10 bullets at the seam and also at 90 degrees to the seam. At the seam the average was 0.4582 and at 90 degrees to it they averaged 0.4586. Width at the seams, and 90 degrees to it, both had the same range of sizes: 0.457 to 0.459". So they are barely out of round (< 0.0004"). No fins on any of them and the seams were faint. Also, I tried to load some in a 45 Colt cases and you could tell they were oversized. They didn't want to seat and I had minor lead shaving. I had to bell the case mouths extra to make them work. I really think the mould is oversized.

RobS
07-26-2013, 09:59 PM
Well one of the most round Lee molds I've seen but too bad it cast a fat as hell boolit.

mroliver77
07-26-2013, 10:09 PM
I want that mold for my 45-70!

Gohon
07-26-2013, 10:13 PM
Something doesn't sound right here.........without sizing the lube grooves are at .453 which sounds right but the driving bands are at .458 from a .452 mold? And these coke bottle loads actually loaded and shot through a 1911? I'm confused or missing something........

freebullet
07-26-2013, 10:55 PM
I'm far from being an expert. Based on my experience with lee molds you are suffering from temperature issues maybe with the melt and the mold. When I first started I had similar results as you mention with a 9mm lee mold. Remember the mold will expand the warmer it gets. My .356 would throw as big as .365 because I didn't have an eye for the temps & no thermometer. That's my guess.

Dan Cash
07-26-2013, 11:14 PM
Temp variation and how tightly you hold the handles during the pour will vary your weight for a given batch of metal. Different alloy can change weight a bunch and diameter some. A 520 gr. mould of mine will vary from 520 to 560 depending upon the aloy.

RobS
07-27-2013, 01:22 AM
Temp variation and how tightly you hold the handles during the pour will vary your weight for a given batch of metal. Different alloy can change weight a bunch and diameter some. A 520 gr. mould of mine will vary from 520 to 560 depending upon the aloy.

Yes with more weight comes more variance. With your heavy mold you are talking about a 7% difference when changing the alloy. If the boolits are round, especially as round as the original poster's are dropping, then the mold is likely closed all the way as well. Almost every Lee 45 Cal mold I've used (quite a few of them) dropped as cast at .452 or .4525 from straight WW alloy. If the mystery alloy was closer to being softer lead thus heavier weight then the diameter would be smaller than what we are seeing for a typical in spec Lee mold. Should the mystery alloy be closer to Lino then the largest diameter this would yield on a typical in spec Lee mold would be at most .002 larger in diameter than a .452-.4525 mold cast of WW alloy or similar.

The mold is not casting at intended specified diameter or even close to it.

http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

Jayhawkhuntclub
07-27-2013, 08:52 AM
Something doesn't sound right here.........without sizing the lube grooves are at .453 which sounds right but the driving bands are at .458 from a .452 mold? And these coke bottle loads actually loaded and shot through a 1911? I'm confused or missing something........

Only after they were squeezed down with the Lee factory crimp die. Otherwise they wouldn't chamber. I was told by a number of people (not here) that as long as they chambered, they should be safe to shoot. It seemed to work fine. Later I can double check the diameter at the lube bands. The calipers I was using at the time was going bad and might be off. I borrowed one from a buddy yesterday. That is the one I measured the 10 different bullets with.

RobS
07-27-2013, 10:56 AM
If they were sized down to the proper diameter then they would be safe providing the load data was safe so no problems there.

Jayhawkhuntclub
07-27-2013, 07:26 PM
Well I recast them with straight wheel weights. Same result: great looking bullets that weigh about 20 grains too much and that are 0.458" in diameter.

Jayhawkhuntclub
07-27-2013, 07:58 PM
Not sure these help much, but here are a few pics.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/Jayhawkhuntclub/IMG_0338_zps26bfce9b.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Jayhawkhuntclub/media/IMG_0338_zps26bfce9b.jpg.html)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/Jayhawkhuntclub/IMG_0336_zpsd8eeb1ed.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Jayhawkhuntclub/media/IMG_0336_zpsd8eeb1ed.jpg.html)

quilbilly
07-27-2013, 08:15 PM
Almost all of my Lee molds cast heavy. My 45-200 casts at 215, my 357-158 casts at 168, and my 358-150 casts at 157 and so on. They all shoot well so no worries.

RobS
07-27-2013, 08:28 PM
Nice pics..............looks like fill out is good and everything is up to par regards to you casting technique.

Wayne Smith
07-27-2013, 08:51 PM
Forget the caliper, get a micrometer and measure them and see what it says.

oscarflytyer
07-27-2013, 09:19 PM
You are NOT alone. Matter of fact, I assumed you had the same mold/lot I did, until I saw yours is 45...

Mine is a Lee 44 caliber (supposed to be) 200 grn RNFP. Cast of WW + 2% tin, it comes out right at 217 grns. I nearly sent it back, and Lee said they would exchange it. But I shot some and it works great. I just use 220 grn load data and go with it.

MtGun44
07-27-2013, 09:28 PM
MUST use a .0001" reading micrometer for accurate dimensions of boolits.

Bill

JonB_in_Glencoe
07-27-2013, 09:28 PM
.458 is way to big.
you either have a mold that's cut way too big,
OR
the mold isn't closing tight enough...\
Burrs, lead splatter, or protruding allignment pins.
That'd cause the heavier weight as well.

If the mold happens to be CUT that large,
I am also interested in buying it for a project.
wanting a light weight 458 caliber boolit.
Good luck,
Jon

retread
07-27-2013, 10:10 PM
My Lee 429-240-2R drops a 258 gr consistently. Asked Lee about it and they said anything +/- 10% was within their specs.

Baryngyl
07-27-2013, 10:21 PM
I want that mold for my 45-70!

I was going to say the same thing but for my 458 Win mag, it would make a nice light weight plinking load.


Michael Grace

Jayhawkhuntclub
07-28-2013, 01:45 PM
UPDATE: Well I made it out and shot 4 more groups this morning (same load as the first group). I am very happy with it (see pic). If you take out a flier or two it would be excellent, by my standards at least. I guess I keep the mould and just deal with it being 220 gr. BTW, I also shot 4 groups in my scoped SBH Hunter (45 Colt). These were 5 shots groups at 50 yards and they averaged under 3" from sandbags. That doesn't sound great, but that gun has always hated lead. Anyhow that is better than any of the purchased lead bullets I've put through that gun. My sizer should be here in the next two days. I'll be interested to see what effect that has on either of these. Thanks to all for the advice!

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/Jayhawkhuntclub/IMG_0343_zpsa43a363f.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Jayhawkhuntclub/media/IMG_0343_zpsa43a363f.jpg.html)

RobS
07-28-2013, 02:04 PM
Can't complain there. I would pull a loaded dummy boolit and check the diameter as that will give you an idea of what the factory crimp die is doing as it has obviously swaged down on the boolit. When you receive your sizer I would size and then pull/retest a dummy round to check the diameter again.

hickfu
08-01-2013, 02:06 AM
I have a 525gr mold that drops them at 540gr but they are not over sized.... they are supposed to come out at 460 with COWW but I add at least 10 to 20% pure and they still drop at 460.


Doc

Jayhawkhuntclub
08-01-2013, 08:15 AM
I have a 525gr mold that drops them at 540gr but they are not over sized.... they are supposed to come out at 460 with COWW but I add at least 10 to 20% pure and they still drop at 460.


DocI don't understand. They drop "at 540gr" and "they still drop at 460"? Are we talking about 2 different moulds here?

james nicholson
08-01-2013, 10:50 AM
Are the mold halves closing flush? Check for a burr on the faces or the alignment pins.

hickfu
08-01-2013, 07:26 PM
I don't understand. They drop "at 540gr" and "they still drop at 460"? Are we talking about 2 different moulds here?

I said they "were supposed to drop at .460" with COWW's I never tried it. I always add between 10 and 20% pure.... I guess I could try with just COWW but they would probably come out between .4605 to .461


Doc