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View Full Version : How to open a mold to .504-.505 with ww?



twoworms
10-08-2007, 08:45 PM
Help...

I'm planning to open up a Lee 440gr .501 mold to drop WW cast boolites around .504 to .505 dia. The problem is I have no idea how big to make the cutter... Alum with expand at some rate, the WW will get smaller after cooling. The cutter should then be what dia? I need a little help from you guys that know this stuff. I can do the math if I just know the numbers for the mold/WW, or if you know what the dia of the cutter should be I'll make it that size.

I have opened my size die to .503 and plan to shoot the sized boolits from my 500 S&W 20" Encore rifle and my S&W hand gun.

Thank you,

Tim

Buckshot
10-08-2007, 09:13 PM
Help...

I'm planning to open up a Lee 440gr .501 mold to drop WW cast boolites around .504 to .505 dia. The problem is I have no idea how big to make the cutter... Alum with expand at some rate, the WW will get smaller after cooling. The cutter should then be what dia? I need a little help from you guys that know this stuff. I can do the math if I just know the numbers for the mold/WW, or if you know what the dia of the cutter should be I'll make it that size.

I have opened my size die to .503 and plan to shoot the sized boolits from my 500 S&W 20" Encore rifle and my S&W hand gun.

Thank you,

Tim

..............I'd open the cavity to .507" or just a tad smaller. Say a half thou? You've mentioned a tolerance of a thousandth so that should getcha there.

..............Buckshot

Johnch
10-08-2007, 09:19 PM
I used tis to open a 45 ACP mould for use in the 45/70 from a .452 bullet to a .461 bullet

What Di dose the mould drop now ? = A
What di is the inside of the mould ( cold ) = B

B/A = ? then ? x .504 or .505

For grins lets say the mould dose drop a .501 bullet and the mould ID is .503

Then .503 / .501 = 1.003992
So 1.003992 x .505 = .507 and change


Not sure if this is the best way
But it worked for me

John

crowbeaner
10-08-2007, 09:41 PM
Most mfgs. recommend that you size your bullets down around .003, so I figure.508 will get you .505 to shoot. The trick with aluminum is to go slow and steady with your drill or reamer and clean out the chips so they don't gouge the cavity. A can of compressed air works well. Just be sure to wear eye protection to avoid any problems with flying chips. WW metal makes a smaller diameter bullet and slightly heavier, so you may want to try 1 ream and cast a few to see what they drop at. Then if needed you can make the cavity bigger. I have tried to make a bevel base bullet mould into a flatbase, and you have to make sure your bit or reamer is centered. This will take some fine adjustments to the drill press before you grind away. If you can't get the cavity right you could always add some straight lino; this will make a .002 difference in the as cast bullet. I learned throgh trial and error on my .22 mould. Lino bullets were too big, and the gaschecks wouldn't fit the base properly. I had to use WW and tin to get the as cast diameter right. Hope this helps. CB.

BABore
10-09-2007, 09:12 AM
I'm assuming that your talking about the Lee C501-440-RF mold which is a gas checked LBT-style flat point. If so, and this may be a dumb question, but are you making a reamer-style cutter to open up the driving bands to a larger diameter? If so you will be removing the GC shank as well as the lube grooves to do it. You could set the depth to just remove the GC and open the base band, but that's it. You would need to lathe bore the driving bands to do it properly. Am I missing something here? :veryconfu

happy7
10-09-2007, 10:00 AM
I also shoot a 500. If you manage to modify your mold, i'd be interested to know what kind of results you get shooting.

twoworms
10-09-2007, 08:30 PM
happy7,

The quest I'm on is to get my 500 S&W Encore barrel 20" to shoot cast boolits. My 500 S&W hand gun with a 4" barrel shoot them great as is. I'll post how it all turns out...

Tim

P.S. Thanks to everyone for your help, I'm making a reamer tonight for the mold.

twoworms
10-09-2007, 09:45 PM
Ok guys in about 30 min or so I should know how my mold turned out after cutting it with my new reamer...

BABORE, I was going to just cut the bands that touch the barrel first. I planed to make them deeper into the mold body.

Tim

twoworms
10-09-2007, 10:38 PM
The mold came out good, one hole is a little better than the other.

The out side hole in the mold cast boolits that come out from .505 to .507 dia. The inside hole in the mold cast from .5025 to .504 dia as the boolits are not perfect round. My size die is at .503 , so I plan to load some ammo and test the boolits before I open up the inside mold hole.

Anyone know a good way to mark a mold so you can tell if the boolit came from the inside or outside hole?

Tim

P.S. Buckshot & johnch I used the .507 size for the cutter or maybe just a little under that .5065 ...

Mk42gunner
10-09-2007, 10:55 PM
You can use a prick punch to make a dimple on the nose of the bullet cavity. Since the mold is aluminum; scribe a line on the nose, it shouldn't take much.

Robert

twoworms
10-09-2007, 11:41 PM
mk42GUNNER,

That should work, I ddin't think about it being that easy...

leftiye
10-10-2007, 12:24 AM
Two,
You could lap the smaller cavity out to get them both the same size. Rounder too.

twoworms
10-10-2007, 07:46 PM
leftiye,

I did just what you had said. I worked on the mold and now have each hole at .505 to .507or so. Now there is a new problem... I sized two boolits from each hole, they came out .503 I then seated them into dummy rounds and checked each round in my Encore Rifle and in my S&W hand gun. They fit the encore great, I needed to clean the hand gun and after doing so hand no problem in it also. Then I pulled the boolits and for the heck of it checked the dia of them. They ran from .501 to .502 dia. I lost ground just from seating and pulling them... Whats up with that? I opened the cast before seating them, no shaved lead there... I did a lot of work and feel I wasted my time if I only gain .001dia on the loaded rounds...

Help!


Tim

twoworms
10-10-2007, 10:11 PM
I found most of the problem, if the boolits have a GC in place when I seat them they will pull and come out of the case at .5025 to .503 dia. Without the GC in place, was how I tested the first 4 boolits. I didn't want to waste the GC's if the dummy rounds didn't fit the Encore.

I also looked at some of my older boolits, they are not round and cast at .495 to .501+. So now at least I have round boolits that fit the bore a little better.


Tim

leftiye
10-11-2007, 12:58 AM
Just for fun - What are the groove diameters of your guns? You want the boolit a thou (or even more) bigger than the grooves. Does your Encore have any freebore, or leade? A lot of Contenders and other T/C guns don't! You might want to chamber cast it so you know what you're dealing with there.

twoworms
10-11-2007, 07:29 PM
leftiye,

The groove comes in at .501 the leade is very long. I can size a case, put a 440GC boolit in the gun then the sized case close the rifle and shake the boolit about 1/8". It has lots of leade... I even tryed making longer brass and test fired it with brass that was about .30" longer it didn't help. I had been getting wild groups at 50 yards. That's what started the quest for a better load/boolit/brass and so on.

There is a tread about all this somewhere...

I have not checked the barrel in my 4" 500S&W hand gun, but will have to do so.

Tim

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=11681 link to problems with 500S&W and lead cast shooting.

leftiye
10-12-2007, 01:46 AM
I'd try making boolits that fit tight (not too tight, maybe .001" smaller than/ or same size as the freebore)in that freebore - whatever is the largest that you can chamber. Then if you use a powder that doesn't flame cut them all to h*!! right at the git go, they can make the jump to the leade (if any) without too much deformation, and would then have a chance. Long boolits with lots of bearing section, seated way out.

This will obviously maybe cause you problems with powder choice (probably already is). The long jump to the rifling will cause slow powders to fizzle out, and as said before, hotter, faster burning powders may bugger up your boolits before a seal can happen.

You could see if you can make longer brass out of something like Starline .348, or .50 something brass, and get rid of some of that freebore with 1/2" longer brass ( lengthen the chamber). Or you could (I would) call T/C and see about a replacement for that barrel.

On another thread I read tonight, someone sent the barrel back and the replacement had an even longer freebore. They used to make them wih no freebore, no leade. I guess folks complained about that and they fixed it!

Oops! That ws you on the other thread! Send it back again!

twoworms
10-12-2007, 06:29 PM
I test fired my new boolit today at 50 yards with my fat boolits. Again just as in the past it grouped like a shotgun at 50 yards. 6" to 12" three shot groups.

I'll cast some with soft lead and test fire them. If they don't work I may just give up on this project...

Anyone what to buy a 20" Encore in 500S&W it shoots great! (Wink!) lol

I'll post a note after I test fire the soft/fat boolits.

Tim

P.S. Leftiye, I'll check the chamber ASAP, you may be right about the boolit fit.

leftiye
10-13-2007, 12:05 PM
Size that boolit to FILL your freebore! You don't have a chance with that long freebore otherwise. If you have to open up that mold more, do it.

twoworms
10-13-2007, 06:57 PM
leftiye,

The freebore is over .531 dia just before the leade starts... That would be one big boolit to shoot out of a .501 dia barrel...

Right now I'm melting down some pure lead for casting with the bigger 440gr Lee mold. I think thats my best chance to get this thing to shoot. I'll welcome any other ideas if this don't work out.

Thank you,

Tim
Tim

Johnch
10-13-2007, 09:47 PM
Load some bullets Long

For my TC 357 Max barrels I found I get the best accurcy when I seat the bullet out so just the GC is in the case
It shortens the free bore

Start with low to med loads
As in some cases this causes a increase in pressures , other times it drops them
All depends on how far the bullet is from the rifling

John

leftiye
10-14-2007, 05:10 PM
GULP! Yer right! With that size freebore, you could go to .348 brass, and stick the whole cartridge INSIDE the freebore! Don't know what you'd call it, but you could get a .50 cal throater, make a new ball seat and leade, and just call what is now freebore yer case neck! (Or just send it back and ask them how in h@!! they can conscience such a thing getting out of their shop).

twoworms
10-14-2007, 07:01 PM
I talked with the TC guys before and after I sent my other barrel back. The told me that TC cuts the chamber to keep the pressure down. I asked for a barrel cut with a leade that was much shorter.

Whats the case head like on the 348 brass? I may need to go back to making long brass to get this thing to shoot.

Tim

leftiye
10-15-2007, 07:16 PM
.348 is a headsize known as 50 Basic. Almost of the old .50 cartridges were made from it (IIRC, to include the 50/3.25" Sharps "Big 50"). You could order Starline 50-70 or whatever longer cartridge would fit (or be shortened to fit) in your "long" chamber to avoid having to neck .348 brass up to .50 cal (might split many of them). Maybe call them and see what the head in front of the rim mikes, and what the neck thickness is.

Whatever else T/C might have said about why they make the freebore long, freebore is supposed to be boolit size or very close. .030" oversized is almost hard to figure out where they got the reamer!

leftiye
10-16-2007, 05:49 PM
I saw a post recently here about someone who silver solders brass tubing to case heads to make LONG brass (4"long plus).

twoworms
10-16-2007, 07:24 PM
Leftiye,

I checked the size of a loaded round just right at the neck of the case. It came out just over .531dia. Maybe with the soft lead, longer seating of the boolits and me doing a better job lubing the boolits it will have a chance of shooting better.

Thanks to everyone for the help on this project.

Tim

Bob Jones
10-16-2007, 10:42 PM
You might try what I've seen called "beagling", named after a member here I believe. I used some very thin (.001") aluminum tape strips between the mold halves on a .357 mold and got a couple thousandths extra size with very little work. Solved my problem with my .359 bore pistol.

leftiye
10-17-2007, 04:03 PM
TW, brass that's .010" thick in the neck should work just fine. My 32-20 has .006" thick necks As little as two thou. of neck clearance will work. Needs to be kept clean though if you use that little!