Ammo shortage over

[Swamp Man]

I read an article a few days ago that stated the ammo shortage was over in America. I don't know about others but that's not the way I see it. In my area the shortage is the same nothing has changed. Which brings me to ask have others seen a change in your area?

[thekidd76]

No change here in NOVA. I haven't seen a brick of .22lr in any store in this area since December. Same goes for most pistol calibers as well.

[badboyparamedic]

Ammo and Powder SLOWLY coming back, but 22's are still almost impossible to get

[Janoosh]

Ammo shortage over? I was at three different walmarts over the weekend....Fishkill, Newburgh, and one near OakHill NY.... I didnt see any example of the shortage being over! I did see a run on pellets though....

[Gliden07]

Where did you read this?? Still a shortage in my area plus if you do find anything prices are still high! Thank God I started to cast and reload!! If your just an ammo assembler you are experiencing shortages too!!


I read an article a few days ago that stated the ammo shortage was over in America. I don't know about others but that's not the way I see it. In my area the shortage is the same nothing has changed. Which brings me to ask have others seen a change in your area?

[R.M.]

Make you wonder where the millions of .22s that are manufactured every day are going. The hoarders can't be stock-piling that much.

[rockrat]

LGS had a bunch of Rem 22's in 100 rounds packs. With tax, $15/box. Wal mart had two boxes (100rnds ea) of 45acp for pistol ammo, but nothing else.

[Bonz]

I'm seeing a lot more ammo available online http://ammoseek.com

Also, went in Gander Mountain, Monroe NC and they had tons of CCI 22LR for $49.99 per 500 rounds

Still pricey but ammo appears to be making a comeback

[Reloader06]

Maybe they were referring to Homeland Security not experiencing any shortages. [smilie=b:

Matt

[novalty]

It is coming available more frequently at my local Wally World, and is staying on the shelf for a slightly longer period of time. Still a vast shortage though.

[SeabeeMan]

Haven't found 22 in months. Powder is hit or miss, mostly miss, and primers are rare. What worries me is every single place around here has primers for 6-8 bucks/100.

[white eagle]

Ammo shortage ?

[Bonz]

Haven't found 22 in months. Powder is hit or miss, mostly miss, and primers are rare. What worries me is every single place around here has primers for 6-8 bucks/100.


http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com


WIN SMALL PISTOL 1000 PRIMERS Item #: WINWSP
Qty In Stock: 204
Your Price: $34.99

WIN SMALL PISTOL MAGNUM 1000 PRIMERS Item #: WINWSPM
Qty In Stock: 68
Your Price: $37.99

[gwpercle]

Saturady before last, 7-13-2013, my wife gave me $50.00 to spend on reloading stuff, I was looking for a Lee 6-cavity mould handle and some 38 cal. 148 gr swaged HBWC to experiment with. But you know how it is...you allways see stuff you didn't know you needed...so I go to three different large local gun and reloading supply shops, Guess what I bought? not one thing...all three had zip. Absolutely nothing on the shelves. One shop had a few 30 cal. J word bullets and nothing else! No moulds, no handles , no powder, primers, no cool tools..... I had cash money to spend and ended up giving it back to the wife! That has never happened before! I am so depressed over this state of affairs.....there is definitly a shortage in Baton Rouge.
Gary

[WILCO]

I had cash money to spend and ended up giving it back to the wife!

Hey Gary!

Get that $50.00 bucks back and save it till she gives you another $50.00.
Treat cash like the politicians do. Keep it and demand more! :shock: [smilie=s:

[Bonz]

Hey Gary!

Get that $50.00 bucks back and save it till she gives you another $50.00.
Treat cash like the politicians do. Keep it and demand more! :shock: [smilie=s:

LOL, thought I was the only husband that did that... Works for me :-)

[WILCO]

I read an article a few days ago that stated the ammo shortage was over in America.

It isn't over by a long shot and we'll never see a brick of .22lr under $20.00 again. Too many market forces with inflation working against us.

[Swamp Man]

Where did you read this?? Still a shortage in my area plus if you do find anything prices are still high! Thank God I started to cast and reload!! If your just an ammo assembler you are experiencing shortages too!!
On one of the news feeds I receive but I don't remember which site it came from. I didn't buy the story one bit and it looks like others for the most part are seeing the same thing as I'm seeing.

[ftut]

Where did you see this article? I'm seeing a little more available online but certainly not in the stores.

[WILCO]

LOL, thought I was the only husband that did that... Works for me :-)

Glad to hear you know the system and how it works. :)

[WILCO]

Where did you see this article? I'm seeing a little more available online but certainly not in the stores.

Google "ammunition shortage over" and see what comes up.

[Bonz]

And now some of the commercial reloaders can't get enough plastic trays for bullets so they are loading them lose in the boxes...

Notice:
To All Freedom Munitions Customers,

Due to the current industry demand for ammunition and our rapid expansion in production capacity, plastic tray suppliers are struggling to meet demand. We are exploring alternate supply options as quickly as possible but are shipping product loose in our 50 count boxes as necessary to meet delivery expectations. We have had no product performance issues from this action but have no intention to continue this practice.

We continue striving to provide the highest value ammunition in the industry to our customers.

Thank you for your continued support!

[Boerrancher]

I was at the local Wally World today and the ammo case had just about everything in it but .22LR. I was actually surprised. The guy behind the counter told me the 22's they get in are lasting a bit longer on the shelf now and are not selling out in just a few hours like they were. He told me sometimes two cases of federal 550 bulk packs will last almost a week. Maybe one day I will get lucky and be able to replace what I have shot the last year or so.

Best wishes

Joe

[nagantguy]

Have come a cross some powder here an there, found a killer ammo deal at a yard sale, traded some o this an that for some primers, gave some .22 lr to a very good friend who needed it to run classes but the shortage is a long jump from over, Cabelas and guns galore still had minimum amount on shelves just last weekend. More than in Dec. but very little, no standard stuff and no idea when this or that will be in stock.

[Castaholic]

What I have seen change is 3 months ago you had to wait in line for .22lr and be there when the truck came, doors open, etc. Now you can show up an hour or two later and they will still have some stuff. I live pretty close to our local sportsmans warehouse and they still sell out of powder, primers, and ammo but it is taking longer to do so. Not over yet but definitely some improvement!

[starnbar]

Mr. Weddle I think you are right about the prices I would like to see them fall too but it don't look like its in the cards for us.

[jcwit]

And now some of the commercial reloaders can't get enough plastic trays for bullets so they are loading them lose in the boxes...

Notice:
To All Freedom Munitions Customers,

Due to the current industry demand for ammunition and our rapid expansion in production capacity, plastic tray suppliers are struggling to meet demand. We are exploring alternate supply options as quickly as possible but are shipping product loose in our 50 count boxes as necessary to meet delivery expectations. We have had no product performance issues from this action but have no intention to continue this practice.

We continue striving to provide the highest value ammunition in the industry to our customers.

Thank you for your continued support!

We can produce Styrofoam cups by the billions but can't make ammo trays fast enough.

I'm missing something here.

This problem is deeper than we can fathom.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I'm seeing some of the local gun shops having primers and ammo now. Goes fast, but it is showing up. WalMart still pretty much bare as was Sportsmans Warehouse in Albuquerque.

[Reloader06]

"We can produce Styrofoam cups by the billions but can't make ammo trays fast enough."

I read it as they cant get PLASTIC trays, not Styrofoam. perhaps their packaging wont accept Styrofoam. IE: the box is to small for a Styrofoam tray.

Matt

[GT27]

More BS...

[MtGun44]

Not buying .22 LR at TEN CENTS PER SHOT!

Bill

[jcwit]

"We can produce Styrofoam cups by the billions but can't make ammo trays fast enough."

I read it as they cant get PLASTIC trays, not Styrofoam. perhaps their packaging wont accept Styrofoam. IE: the box is to small for a Styrofoam tray.

Matt

Its not rocket science to redesign a cardboard box.

[excello]

Ohh noooo - the ammo shortage isnt over! Federal is now "shorting" us by putting 40 rds in their boxes of 22 LR Am Eagle ammo. See my post in the 22 rimfire forum. It's kind of like the ice cream containers that have less in them now - I guess we are on an ammo "diet". !! LOL

excello

[Reloader06]

JC

No it's not. BUT if you have $$$ tied up in inventory and that inventory includes several different sizes, you are talking about large $$$ to replace. They MIGHT be running on a small margin and the wait plus new cost just MIGHT put them out of business. I don't think any of us want that. Loose packed or nice trays? Really doesn't matter to me.

YMMV

Matt

[Bad Water Bill]

Cabelas in Hammond IN has had 22 LR on their shelf for over a month

ONLY $99.99 per no name brick.

It may take a year or so till the horders find out WE will not pay their price.

At that time the mfgrs can fill the shelves of the LGS.

Question is will we be willing to pay an inflated price or sit back and wait till the greedy stores realize the party is over.

[Reloader06]

"Question is will we be willing to pay an inflated price or sit back and wait till the greedy stores realize the party is over. "

Exactly



Matt

[Ed Barrett]

The LGS had some Varget in last week, first since last year. Still no small rifle primers locally, I just can't bring myself to pay haz-mat.

[DHurtig]

Wallyworld here has nothing. Local Cabela's has most all ammo in good supply except 22. LGS has all sizes and types of primers, but not in all brands. Powder is still pretty thin everywhere here.

[Blammer]

I've noticed that several of the on line retailers have ammo, it seems to last a little longer than before but it disappears quickly.

Funny how everyone seems to use the "walmart gauge" when determining the availability of ammo. :) just funny.

was in w-mrt the other day they had 4 AR's priced around $700 (good deal too) but no ammo, but last week they had some "off caliber" ammo and it was fair priced I'd say. Still not much on the shelves.

I wish there were more 12ga Saigas available on the cheap. :)

[MT Gianni]

Ohh noooo - the ammo shortage isnt over! Federal is now "shorting" us by putting 40 rds in their boxes of 22 LR Am Eagle ammo. See my post in the 22 rimfire forum. It's kind of like the ice cream containers that have less in them now - I guess we are on an ammo "diet". !! LOL

excello

American Eagle ammo has been in 40 packs as long as it has been out, at least since the late 90's.

[excello]

First time I have purchased that brand of 22 lr - learn something everyday! excello

[jcwit]

JC

No it's not. BUT if you have $$$ tied up in inventory and that inventory includes several different sizes, you are talking about large $$$ to replace. They MIGHT be running on a small margin and the wait plus new cost just MIGHT put them out of business. I don't think any of us want that. Loose packed or nice trays? Really doesn't matter to me.

YMMV

Matt

Being as at one time in a former life I was a Purchasing Agent "now called procurement officer" for at that time was the largest RV manufacturer in the U.S. I purchased paper and cardboard cartons by the 10s of thousands at one time.

Large dollars tied up in packaging material compared to actual product selling is nothing short of miss management, pure and simple!

Yes we had plants in Indiana, Michigan, Florida, Washington and even California.

[TXGunNut]

I'm experiencing a bit of an ammo shortage, should be cleared up by this time tomorrow. ;-)
All kidding aside I truly expected things to be back to normal, can only assume the hoarders have more money to spend due to our robust economy....oops. So much for "all kidding aside". Sorry about that. :-)

[Sweetpea]

I was in Wal-Mart yesterday, and they had all the high-priced .410 shells you could ever want...:shock:

They also had a fair selection of rifle ammo, but almost no pistol, and definitely NO .22[smilie=b:

[jcwit]

As with all things, this to shall pass.

We should all be thankful for what we do have!

[Moonman]

I saw 22LR bricks of CCI Standard in Canton, Ohio today $49.95 limit 1 per day.

Last week at Camp Perry, Ohio National Pistol Matches CCI Standard Bricks were $40 each with a limit of 3.

[Vinne]

I am so depressed over this state of affairs.....there is definitely a shortage in Baton Rouge.
Gary[/QUOTE]

Hay Gary, much the same here in N.O. We have no ammo, no components and very little hope for the future.

[Swamp Man]

I myself am waiting on Wal-Mart to get in the brands of 22LR and a few other calibers before buying. I try to buy as much of my ammo needs as I can at Wal-Mart for two simple reason 1 their prices are not bad 2 I get a 10% discount on all item from wal-mart. 10% may not sound like much but it brings down the cost enough to cover the sales tax plus some. At this point I'm still setting pretty well on 22LR ammo and what I have is all good ammo not bulk pack stuff. I guess I'm fairing better then many in this time of madness.

[Swamp Man]

I too have never seen the 40 round American Eagle boxes till last week. Maybe it's a regional thing.

Racks of 22's in the gun shops and no ammo to put in them.

I think there should be a rim-fire factory in every state.
I wish I knew more about it and had money to invest.

I seen my first 40 A.E. a week or so back at LGS but thought they were over priced and left them there.

[Spruce]

Wal-Marts in my area are starting to get handgun ammo in. .25 auto, .380 auto, 9mm, .40S&W, .45acp 100pks.@ 40.77 and .45LC 50pks @36.change.

Walked into Gander Mountain last week and they were rolling out to cart loads of handgun ammo, and Fed. .223 in brown wrapper. There .45acp was $60.plus. I asked sales person about price, and he said W-W was always the higher priced ammo.

[Swamp Man]

Wal-Marts in my area are starting to get handgun ammo in. .25 auto, .380 auto, 9mm, .40S&W, .45acp 100pks.@ 40.77 and .45LC 50pks @36.change.

Walked into Gander Mountain last week and they were rolling out to cart loads of handgun ammo, and Fed. .223 in brown wrapper. There .45acp was $60.plus. I asked sales person about price, and he said W-W was always the higher priced ammo.

LOL Gander Mountain is always higher then Wal-Mart and most other places on all their items.

[Bad Water Bill]

LOL Gander Mountain is always higher then Wal-Mart and most other places on all their items.

+100 on that

[kayak1]

I was at the local Wally World today and the ammo case had just about everything in it but .22LR. I was actually surprised. The guy behind the counter told me the 22's they get in are lasting a bit longer on the shelf now and are not selling out in just a few hours like they were. He told me sometimes two cases of federal 550 bulk packs will last almost a week. Maybe one day I will get lucky and be able to replace what I have shot the last year or so.

Best wishes

Joe

Joe,
I stopped by mine Tuesday night and the ammo case was a ghost town. No chance of 22lr or 30-30 (that's what I am looking for). I hope to be able to load my 10-22 again. For now I need to learn how to cast and keep my eyes open for primers and powder.

[jlucke69]

I like seeing these types of articles in the news. It may not be true, but if only 10% of the people believe it, it is 10% fewer trying to hoard ammo. My LGS has most ammo in stock, but prices are higher and they are still limiting. Walmart ammo lasts about a day. Much better than it did a month ago.

[Bad Water Bill]

IIRC They had union problems several years ago.

Unions wanted more money and the co said at the momemt we can bot afford to do that. If you keep demanding more money we will move our operations to our MISSISSIPPI ???? location.

L0ng story short Winchester moved and so did thousands of jobs.

[gew98]

Still a bad shortage in 22's in my area of KY. Jackarse's are buying them up and reselling them local . Like 550 rd brick of federal 22's for $60 each !!!. And they get their panties in a wad when I comment on their for sale posts about how ridiculous it is to sell something for that amount when walmart still sells them for $20 each.

[jcwit]

gew98,
In Belen NM, Walmart price in front of the empty shelf is $24.95 for Federal 550's.

Shipping!

I do know for a fact the W/M's pricing is all over the place. I looked at a pair of shoes at 4 different W/M's in my area and there was 4 different Prices.

[inspector_17]

Found federal match 22lr at 2 LGS 30 and 35 a pop. Local Dicks sporting goods had CCI 400 rd bricks for 40. Local wally world hasn't seen 22 in months. stopped in couple of weeks ago to pick up cartridge for my printer. Didn't have what I needed, so for shts and grins decided to look at the empty ammo shelves. Lo and behold had 8 boxes of 325 Federal. I picked up three @ 18.97 apiece.

[novalty]

Lo and behold had 8 boxes of 325 Federal. I picked up three @ 18.97 apiece.

I picked up 3 of the same boxes of Federal Automatch (325ct) for $14.97 about 2 months ago now.

[Love Life]

What ammo shortage?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

Saturady before last, 7-13-2013, my wife gave me $50.00 to spend on reloading stuff, I was looking for a Lee 6-cavity mould handle and some 38 cal. 148 gr swaged HBWC to experiment with. But you know how it is...you allways see stuff you didn't know you needed...so I go to three different large local gun and reloading supply shops, Guess what I bought? not one thing...all three had zip. Absolutely nothing on the shelves. One shop had a few 30 cal. J word bullets and nothing else! No moulds, no handles , no powder, primers, no cool tools..... I had cash money to spend and ended up giving it back to the wife! That has never happened before! I am so depressed over this state of affairs.....there is definitly a shortage in Baton Rouge.
Gary

no no no don't give cash back , I maintain a place to stash that extra 5 dollars change i had left after i was given cash , it adds up i just bought another muzzle loader with 5 here 10 there sometimes only 2-3 dollars at a time , I don't keep it in my wallet so i can say nope empty.

days when i am in the office i look at the soda machine then move the dollar to my stash and drink water , I know but sacrifices must be made if you want gun money when working on a tight budget

yes the wife knows i do this

[hanleyfan]

I have a brother in law that wheels and deals with firearms and ammo and He said the word is out that to be sure to unload all your high price ammo before the end of August because things are going change. you can take it for what is worth but he has been doing this for 25 years and I hope he is right.

[KCSO]

Most ammo is getting back on the shelves. 9MM is available and 22's are being delivered to Cabela's every week. When they were putting out a pallet and havig it gone in an hour now a pallet of 22's is hanging around for 1 or 2 days. It will take a while to trickle down to the samall guys because the big orders are filling first. Dunhams gets in 22's on a weekly basis and the employees and buddys ae about full up and it will be hittig the shelves this week.

[Love Life]

It is only plausible that supply will catch up.

Here is what happens:
1. Big gun scare
2. Everybody goes crazy and buys up everything regardless of price
3. Gun scare goes away
4. People realize they have hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars sitting in the closet or gun safe
5. People run out of money and still have bills due
6. They look to offload their stuff causing a market glut

Meanwhile back in the reality of produciton land:
1. Big gun scare
2. Demand increases 5 fold
3. Stock owners and producers do happy dance
4. Producers increase production, shifts, and hire temp labor
5. The producers continue to...well... produce
6. Producers start to catch up to demand due to the above increase in production, and loss of buying power now that tax return season is over, summer is here, and Christmas is on the way.
7. Private market glut hits coinciding with producers cathing up to demand

All equals= Supplies hitting the shelf

[LuvMy1911]

Hey Gary!

Get that $50.00 bucks back and save it till she gives you another $50.00.
Treat cash like the politicians do. Keep it and demand more! :shock: [smilie=s:

BWAHAHAHA! Spoken like a man who has been married! (been there, done that!)

There is STILL a shortage in my neck of the woods (michigan). 22LR, most popular rifle caibers, most powders, most primers, most brass, etc. AND no end in sight...

[KrisR]

It is only plausible that supply will catch up.

Here is what happens:
1. Big gun scare
2. Everybody goes crazy and buys up everything regardless of price
3. Gun scare goes away
4. People realize they have hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars sitting in the closet or gun safe
5. People run out of money and still have bills due
6. They look to offload their stuff causing a market glut

Meanwhile back in the reality of produciton land:
1. Big gun scare
2. Demand increases 5 fold
3. Stock owners and producers do happy dance
4. Producers increase production, shifts, and hire temp labor
5. The producers continue to...well... produce
6. Producers start to catch up to demand due to the above increase in production, and loss of buying power now that tax return season is over, summer is here, and Christmas is on the way.
7. Private market glut hits coinciding with producers cathing up to demand

All equals= Supplies hitting the shelf


YEP! I'm waiting for the deals. I was at the GS over the weekend and I purposely went at the last few hours to see what's left. Lots of ammo, the double priced stuff. And at 90 bucks a table. Some of them had 6 tables. Well sorry for there loss, the only few things I wanted was a couple ammo cans. And c309-113-f but I've rarly found casting stuff and didn't find one but one wore out mold with a missing spruce plate

[Vinne]

It's kind of like the ice cream containers that have less in them now - I guess we are on an ammo "diet". !! LOL

excello[/QUOTE]

You're right, at this rate we are all "starving"!!!

[farmbif]

PLEASE HELP BOYCOTT high 22lr prices. The newest cheaper than dirt flyer came in mail yesterday with cci 22lr priced at $59+ for 100 round box and other 22lr ammo at $1.00 per round. I went to CCI web site/contact us link sent a message asking them to stop selling to cheaper than dirt due to this incredible price gouging, noting that I am not the only one boycotting companies that are doing this price gouging. PLEASE DO THE SAME AND SEND MESSAGE TO CCI AND OR ANY OTHER MANUFACTURERS YOU SEE FIT.
TODAY CCI responded to me with an email saying that they are looking into the situation.

[Bad Water Bill]

Now that is a plan I can go along with. :bigsmyl2:

Not sure how many others will tho.

[375supermag]

hi...

I checked the ammo case at my local Wal-Mart after seeing this thread.
Still practically empty...some rifle cartridges and shotgun shells and that was it. No.22 or handgun ammo at all.

I have been able to buy some .22LR here and there...I picked up 8 boxes of .22LR (50-rd ct) at a LGS a couple of weeks ago.

Most gun shops have no .22LR other than shot shells.

The larger gun shops seem to have plenty of cartridges with limits on number per day per customer.
This past weekend I made a swing through several counties to about 5-6 gun shops and the bigger ones are starting to see larger numbers of dies, bullets and primers. Most powders are now available at least in 1 lb containers (the larger containers are few and far between). Just about all shops continue to have limits on primers(1K per day), powders(one container any size per day) and bullets.

I was able to buy two boxes of Hornady .357cal. 180gr HP/XTPs at one shop. They said no limit...since I only shoot a couple hundred of those bullets through my .357s each year I left the rest on the shelf.
I have quite a few hundreds of .357 125gr and 158gr HP/XTPs either loaded or awaiting loading, so I am still good on jacketed .357 rounds.
Most of my .357Mag rounds are cast LSWC at 158gr and I have thousands of those loaded and/or ready to load at all times.

Pretty much stocked up on all other handgun bullets and have a good supply of powders and primers.

I keep waiting for the sell-off to begin but nothing so far locally on Craigslist.

[dakotashooter2]

All amo looks alike to the liberal media...... They probably saw 30 boxes of 9mm on a store shelf and declared the shortage over.

[SteveUSP]

Yesterday Walmart had .223 and .40S&W on the shelf. Both calibers I use, but make myself. Still no .22LR, the only caliber I can't make. I suppose that is why it is still short, can't make 'em at home.

[Swamp Man]

Shipping!

I do know for a fact the W/M's pricing is all over the place. I looked at a pair of shoes at 4 different W/M's in my area and there was 4 different Prices. Wal-Mart prices are based on their competitors in their local area. If there is 3 W.M. in a town their prices are based on their closest competitors for each store so all 3 may have different prices in a given town.

[jcwit]

Wal-Mart prices are based on their competitors in their local area. If there is 3 W.M. in a town their prices are based on their closest competitors for each store so all 3 may have different prices in a given town.

Well that is a theory anyway. But the WalMart with the least expensive price was the one with NO big box store competition unless K Mart qualifies a such today?

I live in an area with 5 W/M's within a 20 mile drive with the nearest being 15 miles away. The other 4 W/M's have big box outlet within a block of their front doors, Meijer stores to be exact.

[felix]

Walmart has a minimum markup price without regard to the competition. ... felix

[mikeym1a]

:bigsmyl2:
Maybe they were referring to Homeland Security not experiencing any shortages.

Matt

:bigsmyl2:

[Bad Water Bill]

Gotta love those MEIJERS stores.

[Mike in TX]

Just got back from Connecticut and picked up 4 boxes of 22. 2 boxes were the limit but at least there was some but not much. BTW come October if you are not a resident of CT with an ammo purchase license you will not be able to buy ANY ammo. According to the people that I talked to at 2 stores even the legislators say that the new laws will not stop shooting. What a bunch of A$$es.

[Eddie2Gun]

Natches has Federal .22 Target Champion, 325 rds for $18.99 per box, 2 box max per order. That works out to be .06 per round.

[Swamp Man]

Well that is a theory anyway. But the WalMart with the least expensive price was the one with NO big box store competition unless K Mart qualifies a such today?

I live in an area with 5 W/M's within a 20 mile drive with the nearest being 15 miles away. The other 4 W/M's have big box outlet within a block of their front doors, Meijer stores to be exact. Wal-Mart's competitors are not just big box stores it could be a small mom & pop shop selling the same items that causes price differences in a given area.

[Swamp Man]

Walmart has a minimum markup price without regard to the competition. ... felix

Wrong. It's competitor based pricing my wife has been a district manager for many years and been with the co for almost 30 years I know how Wal-Mart works.

[jcwit]

Wal-Mart's competitors are not just big box stores it could be a small mom & pop shop selling the same items that causes price differences in a given area.

Well it "could be". But again that is NOT the case, I've lived and shopped in this area all of my 70 years, I know whereof I speak. All of the small mom & pop stores have long since been driven out near any of the 5 WalMarts.

[mold maker]

Well it "could be". But again that is NOT the case, I've lived and shopped in this area all of my 70 years, I know whereof I speak. All of the small mom & pop stores have long since been driven out near any of the 5 WalMarts.

The same with Mom and Pop, grocery, hardware, and drugstores. Big box stores are all that's left.
To be fare, I've noticed more American made at Walmart lately.

[mikeym1a]

Natches has Federal .22 Target Champion, 325 rds for $18.99 per box, 2 box max per order. That works out to be .06 per round.

Geez, when I got into reloading, .22's were .02/rd. That's one reason I loaded for the .32S&WL. I could load them for .03/rd. Last fall, I bought a bunch of .22's, and they were a bit pricey, but, they were available, and what I wanted at the time. Got a brick of those 60gr rounds. Haven't shot them yet, but, I have them! :bigsmyl2:

[Ed Barrett]

Not really ammo but I finally got some small primers pistol primers! One of the local shops called me and said they had some primers in. I drove over and found they were Fiocchi's, they come in packs of 150 and 1500 in a brick. He want $37.00 a brick $40.00 bucks with tax. I got a brick for myself and one for my shooting buddy. They are marked as being made in Italy. I loaded up 100 .38 specials and 50 .22 hornets, I am going to try to get to the range tomorrow if it doesn't rain. Have anybody used any Fiocchi primers?

[mikeym1a]

Not really ammo but I finally got some small primers pistol primers! One of the local shops called me and said they had some primers in. I drove over and found they were Fiocchi's, they come in packs of 150 and 1500 in a brick. He want $37.00 a brick $40.00 bucks with tax. I got a brick for myself and one for my shooting buddy. They are marked as being made in Italy. I loaded up 100 .38 specials and 50 .22 hornets, I am going to try to get to the range tomorrow if it doesn't rain. Have anybody used any Fiocchi primers?

Never used Fiocchi primers, but, I did get some Fiocchi .32S&WL target loads. Worked great. They seemed higher than US made, but, today, that hardly matters. [smilie=s:

[Bad Water Bill]

Not really ammo but I finally got some small primers pistol primers! One of the local shops called me and said they had some primers in. I drove over and found they were Fiocchi's, they come in packs of 150 and 1500 in a brick. He want $37.00 a brick $40.00 bucks with tax. I got a brick for myself and one for my shooting buddy. They are marked as being made in Italy. I loaded up 100 .38 specials and 50 .22 hornets, I am going to try to get to the range tomorrow if it doesn't rain. Have anybody used any Fiocchi primers?

$37.00 for 1500 is not a bad price TODAY. Just a shade over $24.00 per 1,000.

Ben a while since most of us have posted of that low a price.

Are they good or not ??? The company has been around for quite a few years so let their reputation be one of the items you consider then decide what to do.

[lylejb]

I've seen 3 lbs of powder at my local bi-mart since JANUARY.

Primers one time......limit of 1 TRAY per day

no 22's........

sure glad that shortage is over:roll:

[tward]

Ed Barrett been using Fiocchi. Small pistol primers for a couple of years, no problems at all, a good product. I think you will like them. Tim

[Phoenix]

Was just at sportsmans warehouse last week. They had remington 22 500 packs, americal eagle bricks for $24.99. Federal XM193 223 ammo (this is a rare find) PMC 223, and more. But people were lined up to buy. The XM193 was $10.99 per box. Far cry from the $7.99 ir was last fall. The 22 being #24.99 for 400 is a far cry from the $16.00 I paid for several brick of it last august. At least things are looking better. I even found AA1680 powder which I have been looking for 8 months for. I expect a year before things really reset but not holding my breath on prices coming back down anytime soon.

[Petrol & Powder]

I haven't checked on ammo in a couple of weeks but I don't think the market will recover overnight. It was still pathetic a few weeks ago. Locally, I don't feel like retailers are gouging, there just continues to be a high demand and therefore short supply and high prices.
As long as there are significant numbers of people willing to pay the high prices and/or engage in hording - there will be shortages and high prices. When the consumers wake up and stop paying these inflated prices; the market will adjust. It always does. (I'd guess that it will be more like a market collapse considering the amount of ammunition that's out there now)
Most of the gun owners I've spoken to actually have a larger supply of ammo stockpiled now than they did BEFORE this madness started. They continue to horde it out of fear. They're shooting less and storing more. I'm not saying that it is a baseless fear, in fact we've seen the anti-gun people launch some successful movements in the last 10 months. Having a stockpile is a good hedge against the fluctuations of the market. What I am saying is the anti-gun people aren't the ones buying up all the lead, powder & primers - We the ones producing that enormous demand!
Before someone jumps in and talks about Homeland Security, The Military, The Police or the government in general; is buying up the supply of ammunition- allow me to point out that all of those public sectors combined make up a very small portion of the total market compared to the private sector. Homeland Security isn't buying bricks of .22's, .32 ACP or .30-30Win.

When the gun people slow down and stop paying $49.99 for a brick of .22's the market will correct itself.

[shooterg]

Walmart yesterday - 9mm @ $15 box, .45 @$21, had the small Federal bricks .22 for $15. 3 box limit. .22 didn't last long, others still there later. Didn't buy any, don't need it. It ain't over, but early signs are there - old prices ain't though !

[km101]

No ammo or powder to be had here in N. Texas! At least not that I have found in the local gun shops.

Did order 10K of SPP from Powder Valley for $23.50/K. That's the first SPP that I have seen!

Just got a call from a friend who says that Academy has American Eagle 22lr for $2.29 a box. Don't know if it is 40 round or 50 round boxes though. Again, the first that I have seen around here!

[wallenba]

Powders... some, not mine. Brass, only oddballs. No 22LR. But I can get plenty of LR primers, benchrest CCI @ $53 per 1000. Whupee.

[TXGunNut]

Ft Worth Cabelas had quite a bit of rifle & pistol ammo on the shelves...and about a dozen folks staring at them. :-) Prices very close to last year. Didn't see any .22 but found a brick on my shelf marked $8.95. It'll probably be there for the next "shortage". LGS had more powder than Cabelas, neither had any primers to speak of.

[375supermag]

Still not back to anywhere approaching normal around these parts...

After work yesterday, my son and I did a little cruise through a couple of LGS.
No .22LR to be found(except high-priced target ammo), most other cartridges were available (some at inflated prices), primers were available at $34.99 to 37.99 per thousand depending on the manufacturer, handgun powders shelves were empty, not much in the way of rifle powders, lots of jacketed bullets on the shelf at one shop, cast bullet shelf essentially empty, practically no bullets at the second shop. Pretty much all ammo was still on a limit per day per customer.

To be fair, it was fairly late in the afternoon when we headed out because we both worked Saturday. We had no time or inclination to take the 50-mile one-way trip to the two best stocked gun shops in the area, so I can't report on their status.

The bigger of the two shops (Trop Gun Shop in Elizabethtown,Pa) we visited is preparing to move into a new location sometime in August, so I think they are withholding stock for the grand opening of their new building.
They also have their own line of ammunition they sell at their store (mostly rifle) and I think that is consuming a large amount of available powder stock that would normally be on the shelf.

It will be interesting to see what the new facility looks like when the open up.

[runfiverun]

I looked over a couple of cases of cci 22lr ammo [no clue as to the price]
the other day in casper Wy.
they had powder but nothing I needed, they even had 22/308 caliber bullets on the shelf, but not the 25 cal bullets I wanted.
the one in Idaho falls was about the same but they had much less powder.
neither one has had any primers the last couple of weeks.

[btroj]

I am starting to see more primes locally. Not a bunch but more than before. Some Win, Rem, and CCI around here. Prices do seem to be up a bunch.
Powder is still in short supply other than shotgun powders.
Things are improving but it still has a way to go.

[drtoddw]

BWAHAHAHA! Spoken like a man who has been married! (been there, done that!)

There is STILL a shortage in my neck of the woods (michigan). 22LR, most popular rifle caibers, most powders, most primers, most brass, etc. AND no end in sight...

I see you are in West Michigan. Cabelas in Grandville has most handgun calibers during the week... if you are there after 3pm. The only caliber I haven't seen is .380. Despite what they may tell you about putting ammo out in the morning, I've been there from 3:30pm to 4:30 and have watched as they put ammo out on the shelves. About a 1 1/2 months ago I bought one of those Federal 1000 round cans, and have friends who have done the same. For the .22lr, I had to ask a salesperson if they had any in the back. He came back with two cans, one for me and one can for a person who had overheard me asking the salesperson. They have also had small and large pistol primers that have been there over multiple days. Powder has been iffy...I've been looking for quite some time for H110 and Unique, but since I have around 10lbs if each on hand, I'm in no hurry. I've seen plenty of Clay's, though.

Al & Bob's in GR has had .22lr on the shelf but were limiting sales to one box. Gander Mountain in Grandville had .22lr last weekend but, like Cabelas, you need to ask; it's behind the counter.

[nekshot]

As I drive into our local walmart I pass a rinky dink place with a sign out front in big letters saying" 22 ammo for sale". So I get to the walmart store and I ask the clerk about 22 ammo. She says none here now because every specific time they stock the shelves a certain man who owns a rinky dink store and his cohorts are in line and buy it all up. She said her husband called the attorney general about this guy price gouging and he said you gotta do this and that and sign your name with all to see as the accuser of the merchant.He did not want to get involved and I don't blame him. I do make sure I tell all I know of this dude and to stay away from his business forever. If we stick together we can hurt these suckers in the long run. A certain gun shop near a moving company here immediatly raised there prices when all this started and I am glad to say I have steered folk away from them. We the buyers win every time in capitalism!

[merlin101]

I'm seeing a little more on Wally's shelves but not much, no .22's to be found in any local store.
I did find a guy at a local flea market selling .22LR at decent prices but left them there for someone that needs them. I saw a not so local gun shop with some .22LR at about $8.00 per 50! He still had a pretty good supply of em too.
Powder hasn't been to much of a problem around here but primers were non-existent for awhile but even SRP are showing up now and then at about $30. per 1000

[oldred]

I was in Wally World in Jacksboro Tn yesterday and they actually had a few boxes of CCI rf on the shelf! I bought a box of Maxi-Mags 22 WMR because I have only a few boxes on hand and well one never knows when we might see it again, $14.97 for a box of 50 but Widners over in Johnson City gets over $15 and they are out-of-stock. I think the shortage is easing up just a bit and with any luck I think it may start to change rapidly very soon, the lady working the sporting goods dept said it had slowed a lot in just the last couple of weeks to the point that what they sold in a matter of hours (or even minutes in the case of RF) is now lasting a couple of days or more. HOWEVER as we are all well aware of all it takes is one breaking news report and that could be the start of the new panic all over again and it could happen at any minute!

[9.3X62AL]

This Shortage hasn't had much effect on me or my shooting activities, since I cast boolits and refill my empties for most of my armed playtimes.

My sole current annoyance is with the newest rare & endangered species--JHP pistol ammo, esp. 9mm Luger. Marie's carry ammo in her P-228 is almost 3 years old, one daughter has a new Glock that I had to fill with FMJs, and I have a 9mm I would like to carry--but dislike either reloads or FMJ bullets in this venue. Even JHP 9mm component bullets are unavailable, if I was willing to carry refills on the street. Rucking fidiculous.

I just wish the hoarders--strippers--flippers--and the ammo makers would get their kit in one bag and make this stupidity end. I'm left with the impression that the retail ammo and component market is VERY shallowly supplied, if it can be emptied out so quickly and kept in that condition for such a long damn time. And I don't buy it for a minute that all the makers are running at max effort to meet this demand, so Steve Hornady should just put a sock in it. The makers are in a good place--they are selling all they can make (which appears to be NOT VERY DAMN MUCH), and their years-ago-established raw material supply stream and its just-in-time inventory method are just ducky. For the makers. For the end-users, not so much. Most of the comments coming from the makers focus on "unprecedented demand", which is a polite form of Blame The Consumer. Arrogant nonsense, or at minimum Rip Van Winkle Marketing. The world did a paradigm shift, and the makers were (and are) asleep against a tree. Time to wake up.

[9.3X62AL]

Find an importer and do a giant group buy.

Not a bad idea at all! The current situation is quite reminiscent of the automobile market in North America in the late 1960s-early 1970s. Fat, bloated, decadent Detroit sold a lot of junk vehicles that were short-lived, poor-performing, gas-guzzling trash heaps--and could not be prompted out of that mode until Japanese and European importers started selling affordable--reliable--economical-to-run vehicles in this country. It took the foreigners carving a large chunk out of Detroit's market share before Motor City WOKE UP and started selling vehicles that could keep up with the imports. I wouldn't mind seeing Tula, Wolf, Fiocchi, S&B, or other offshore makers eat the lunch of these lazy and unmotivated USA ammo and component makers that do such a piss-poor job of serving their customers.

[olereb]

From what I have seen there isn't much here in SW FL(Ft Myers),I reload all my ammo and am well stocked so I cant say I have really been looking hard but when I am in a shop I do take a look at whats there. 9mm,45acp,357mag and a few other handgun calibers are back but are still priced kinda high in my opinion,no .22lr at all,havent seen primers or powder in months.

[plmitch]

Stopped at a local Big5 today and lots of ammo on the shelves to choose from. .22 are a bit thin but available at a price that anyone can afford. They are selling primers now and expect to start selling powder soon. Good times ahead.

[Thor's Daddy]

I see you are in West Michigan. Cabelas in Grandville has most handgun calibers during the week... if you are there after 3pm. The only caliber I haven't seen is .380. Despite what they may tell you about putting ammo out in the morning, I've been there from 3:30pm to 4:30 and have watched as they put ammo out on the shelves. About a 1 1/2 months ago I bought one of those Federal 1000 round cans, and have friends who have done the same. For the .22lr, I had to ask a salesperson if they had any in the back. He came back with two cans, one for me and one can for a person who had overheard me asking the salesperson. They have also had small and large pistol primers that have been there over multiple days. Powder has been iffy...I've been looking for quite some time for H110 and Unique, but since I have around 10lbs if each on hand, I'm in no hurry. I've seen plenty of Clay's, though.

Al & Bob's in GR has had .22lr on the shelf but were limiting sales to one box. Gander Mountain in Grandville had .22lr last weekend but, like Cabelas, you need to ask; it's behind the counter.

Had similar experiences while visiting kin in West Michigan earlier this month. Cabela's in Grandville was limiting primers to 2k per day, but had most everything in stock. Powder was spotty, but I'm set for a bit, so it wasn't a worry.

Shanz Supply in Otsego had plenty of primers as well. 2k per day limit there as well. I didn't look at powder.

Here at home it's one sleeve of primers per day at the local hardware. I haven't really looked for 22LR. Wally's seems to have most of their usual rifle ammo in stock. Pistol is spotty at best and rimfire is non-existent. I guess I could play the early-bird game and get there on truck day, but just haven't bothered so far.

[Jammersix]

It amuses me that people who, a year ago, were screaming "Chinese this", "Chinese that" and "Buy American" are now screaming for imported ammo.

[Jim]

It amuses me that people who, a year ago, were screaming "Chinese this", "Chinese that" and "Buy American" are now screaming for imported ammo.

It amuses me that people didn't see this coming, especially in light of the fact that a warning was posted 5 days before the Newtown shooting.

[plmitch]

It amuses me that people who, a year ago, were screaming "Chinese this", "Chinese that" and "Buy American" are now screaming for imported ammo.

Very well said!

[mroliver77]

School will be starting soon!

[MUSTANG]

Went to the Kalispell Gun Show today. Lots of used 22LR rifles on the tables, most were reasonable prices, others outrageously priced like the Nylon 66's for $350 to $400 (Maybe sour grapes since I remember passing on them at $35 to $50 in my younger years). Multiple vendors (Scalpers?) with the $85 boxes of 550's, or the $10 to $15 for 50 count boxes. What I noticed was they were not selling. Strangely these vendors didn't seem a bit concerned they might have to eat their inventory.

I did notice that most other items have returned to "Fair Value". Actually saw some good values, for example the 30-40 Krag Carbine for $350, no rust and a good bore (just didn't have room in the safe). Range Brass prices were a bit high but available on tables. No primers in sight, but lots of old box/can powders (partially used) that had been pulled out of the lockers for sale at moderately inflated prices.

Over the last two weeks I was able to pick up 2000 Small Rifle, and a 1000 Large Rifle primers, at different retail Sporting Stores in the Kalispell Montana area to partially replace what I have shot over the last 6-9 months. A day later each of the locations was out of the Primers . I was absolutely amazed when a sales person told me he had a 1lb of IMR 4895 in the back I could buy, I did not pass it by for who knows when that powder will be routinely available again.

I would not say the crisis is over, but perhaps stabilized would be a better statement.:shock:


Mustang:

[9.3X62AL]

It amuses me that people who, a year ago, were screaming "Chinese this", "Chinese that" and "Buy American" are now screaming for imported ammo.

I will be very happy to Buy American......when there is "American" available to buy. I don't think it would do the reloading market any harm--since it is so depleted and its makers so over-taxed--to have a little foreign incentive to pull their heads out and get real--the lazy, decadent, unmotivated sloths.

[Shepherd2]

My son and I stopped at a large sporting goods store yesterday after going to a small gun show. We were surprised to see 6 or 7 pallets of 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP ammo scattered around the firearms section. Both Federal and Winchester brands. The only price I remember is Federal 9mm at $16.99 a box of 50. The only primers they had were CCI small pistol marked down to $29.99 from $36.99. And they had plenty. They had a good selection of powder too. I was in there last year after the madness started and the pistol cases were bare and the had 3 ARs in the rack. Yesterday the pistol cases (about 80' of them) were full and there were about 40 ARs. Things were definitely better than my last visit. One other things - no 22s.

[kbstenberg]

I had the opposite of Shepherd2. I went to Cabelas and Wolfs Den. I couldn't have bought a rifle or pistol primer. And the powder shelves had less than a quarter of the different types available.

[41 mag fan]

I had the opposite of Shepherd2. I went to Cabelas and Wolfs Den. I couldn't have bought a rifle or pistol primer. And the powder shelves had less than a quarter of the different types available.

What about Reeds up in Walker? Can't remember if they sell reloading supplies or not.

[searcher4851]

Powder and primers are still hit and miss around me (the vast majority of the time it's miss) but a little is getting through. The local Wallyworld had more ammo than I've seen in months on Saturday morning. For some reason they never had much problem with 270, but other rifle and all pistol was gone as fast as they could unload. Saturday they had some 9mm, .40, 243, 30-06, 22-250, and the usual 270. They never ran out of shotgun ammo either. They didn't have much of anything, but at least they had more than usual. (not a lick of 22 lr in sight though)

[9.3X62AL]

It sounds as if a few places are FINALLY receiving long-ago-ordered inventory, though such receipts are scattered and scarce. Conversations with the manager of the LGS show that ammo has been strained for much of the past 5 years, with occasional bursts of inventory arriving almost by surprise and only after long delays. This doesn't strike me as being either comprehensive or systematic.......more like spastic and random. But it's the consumers' fault, per the makers. Gag me with a spoon.

[Swamp Man]

It sounds as if a few places are FINALLY receiving long-ago-ordered inventory, though such receipts are scattered and scarce. Conversations with the manager of the LGS show that ammo has been strained for much of the past 5 years, with occasional bursts of inventory arriving almost by surprise and only after long delays. This doesn't strike me as being either comprehensive or systematic.......more like spastic and random. But it's the consumers' fault, per the makers. Gag me with a spoon. There is more to it then any of the Co's are letting on. They don't want to tell us the truth because they know it will tick us off and they may lose part of their long standing customer base. Their all playing along with the government's plan to limit U.S. ammo supplies. There is no other way it would have gone on so long and so wide spread. Not to mention all the reports from Canada that say there is NO shortage of U.S. ammo being shipped into Canada.

[9.3X62AL]

Their all playing along with the government's plan to limit U.S. ammo supplies.

Huh? What plan izzat? RemFedChester doesn't appear to need .gov's prompting, they're doing a bad enough job on their own of serving the market. And 'too late'--most of us are already pretty ticked off at how the makers are further complicating an already convoluted process of obtaining firearms and ammo, made hostile enough by goobermint wonks and their hoplophobic regulations and restrictions.

[Swamp Man]

See how bad things turned when they couldn't get their way with the gun bans? I can't get into it to deep on "My Town" or my post will go POOF like they always seem to do. Now ask yourself how could the U.S. ammo co's ship to Canada if they can't supply the U.S. market.

[Swamp Man]

Those of us that live close enough to the factories should take the guided a tour of them and ask questions. That sounds like a good idea but they will try to feed y'all the same line they are feeding us in their letters posted online. I'm just glad I own 3 nice Beeman 22cal air rifles to use for critter control. They allows me to save the few bricks of 22lr's I have for small game this season.

[KohlerK91]

Went camping this past weekend and the camp ground "had" a Rifle range. I asked were it was and was told it was closed becasue of no Ammo. Or when they could find it, it ws at a premium price. ($14.00 per 50). They used to rent a rifle and 50 rounds to the Boy Scouts and others for $7.50. They could shoot supervised by a range coach on the campground shooting range. Alot of young new shooters have been missing out.

Saw a bunch of .22 rifles at Dicks Sporting goods. Told the guy behind the counter if he had some ammo for them I would buy one(though not really). Needless to say I left empty handed.


I always figured "they "wouldn't take our guns but make ammo scarce and/or unaffordable instead.

[Swamp Man]

Went camping this past weekend and the camp ground "had" a Rifle range. I asked were it was and was told it was closed becasue of no Ammo. Or when they could find it, it ws at a premium price. ($14.00 per 50). They used to rent a rifle and 50 rounds to the Boy Scouts and others for $7.50. They could shoot supervised by a range coach on the campground shooting range. Alot of young new shooters have been missing out.

Saw a bunch of .22 rifles at Dicks Sporting goods. Told the guy behind the counter if he had some ammo for them I would buy one(though not really). Needless to say I left empty handed.


I always figured "they "wouldn't take our guns but make ammo scarce and/or unaffordable instead.

That's sad news about the range and the Boy Scouts.

And that's just what "They" are doing.

[MUSTANG]

To understand the Ammo Shortage, and/or validate assertions the Government is buying up and hoarding all available ammunition requires analysis through the prism of hard numbers and not emotion. That requires hard data that I have not seen published or found in my Internet research. For my second career I simultaneously managed numerous Projects continually valued at many millions of dollars where I never went over budget and always finished ahead of schedule, the only way that was accomplished was through hard data - drilling down into the numbers - and a firm hand on the tiller.

The following information is required to truly asses the problem:

1. A list of All U.S. ammunition producers.
2. A comprehensive report on daily/weekly/monthly production of rounds produced by caliber for each producer.
3. A comprehensive report on machinery capacity for each manufacturer by caliber, with notation of which machines are multi-caliber capable. It would also indicate idle time, set up time, maintenance time, and repair time monthly for all machinery. As an example, multi-caliber machines might be running at full capacity producing .40 & .45, and would not be available for .22's.
4. Labor schedules (40 hour week, over time, double or triple shifts, weekend shifts, etc..)
5. A labor availability and utilization report. Machines can sit idle if trained/qualified labor is not available.
6. A report on availability and schedules for raw materials/components produced by others.

If we in the shooting community had access to this data coupled with production and contract rates, then we could see if there is truly a justified shortage, a lack of producer commitment to the market, or the assertions of a Government buying up all the capacity is true. These issues were addressed by the Government & Manufacturers in WWII, and again in the Korean War when plants had been shut down/disassembled/idled.

Sorry to those who see this as down in the weeds, but it is the level necessary to deal with the issue as opposed to speculating that the problem is Consumer based - created by the Industry - a Government gone astray buying all available capacity (or a combination of all).


Mustang

[Swamp Man]

Like I said before I have a good bit of 22LR's but what get's to me is the fact that others can't get any. My little brother is in need and so are a few of my friends and they know I have some but won't turn any loose. That makes me look like a " " to them I'm sure but what can I do. I gave one 50 ct box to an old couple that needed them vary bad and I sold one 50 ct at cost to a friend. I have went searching for any 22LR's many times and lucked out found a 325 ct Federal which I let my little brother have at cost,which he shot up in no time. A few weeks back I found a few 40 ct A.E. over priced which I called a friend and told about. If things are still this way come hunting season I have some CCI standards and some some odd balls 50 ct boxes. I will divid between them but I know better then to do it now because none of them would have any left come hunting season.

[Petrol & Powder]

Mustang - I agree that emotion must be excluded from the assessment of the situation.

I'm not ready to buy into the conspiracy theories and as you point out, there a lot of variables to consider.

To support the conspiracy theory that the manufactures' are engage in price fixing there would have to be a cartel, a monopoly agreement or some other organized collaboration that would fail if one importer or domestic ammunition company failed to join the agreement.

The government(s) [Federal & State] may be purchasing large amounts of ammunition but I fail to believe that those orders could exceed the demands placed upon the supply by the private sector. Furthermore, those orders existed before the current shortage and private sector production routinely met those demands plus the demands of the private consumers.

There could be a shortage of raw materials such as copper, lead, zinc, etc. but I don't know. The assertions that large portions of that supply are being purchased by a foreign entity is not based in facts. Again, the suppliers of those materials would have to "join" the "conspiracy".

The government is not buying .22 rimfire ammunition.
The manufactures and retailers will continue to sell ammunition at the highest price the market will bear.
Non-gun people aren't the ones empting the ammunition shelves at Wal-Mart, Dicks and your local gun store.

I don't know if this shortage is real or just perceived to be real. What I do know is that there are a lot of gun owners/consumers that don't WANT to even consider the possibility that WE are the ones supporting the high demands and high prices.

The notion that we, the consumers, COULD POSSIBLY BE responsible for the high prices and shortages seems to be so distasteful that many are willing to subscribe to conspiracy theories first and logic second.

[waynem34]

Wow just left the walmart and they had ammo. 22lr, 22mag, all pistol ammo, 5.56, 7.62. First time in a while to see cci mini mags and bulk packs of federal. Maybe things are looking up. $7.47 for the mini mags. Two box limit.

[Jon]

I haven't seen any 22LR at walmart in 3 months. I even stop in first thing in the morning to have the best shot.

[destrux]

Our walmart has most stuff in stock, no .22lr right now, but they had it last week.

The local Cabelas had everything last I was there a week or so ago.

The biggest local gun shop had everything but .22LR bulk packs last time I was there two weeks ago.

It's about halfway over I figure.

[Swamp Man]

Nothing in 22 LR in New Mexico or Arizona since last winter, so over 7 months.
No one mentioning prices?
Bill the 325 ct Federal I got at Wal-Mart a few mouths back were $12 and change after tax and my 10% discount I think they were priced just under $14 on the shelve. The A.E. 40 ct I seen at the LGS was 3.99.

[9.3X62AL]

Mustang's thrust is a good take on how to assess the problem. I imagine that most of the data he would drill down into is proprietary and kept close to the vest, however.

I don't see a vast, governmental conspiracy to deprive the country of ammunition. I worked for a sector of the .gov, and that lot can't put together a retirement party for a mid-level clerk/typist without private sector assistance. My view--that is a wrong number.

What makes sense to me--and I allege this on very small amounts of data and a surplus of experienced opinion--is that the ammo & components industry is very limited in size and scale. They have many years of sales and production data upon which they base acquisition of raw materials--the sizing and scheduling of production runs--and their inventory model is "just in time"-based, to control warehousing costs of materials and finished product. The bottom line here is that the supply chain is not deep or comprehensive, and never has been. Consumer rushes on ammo and components quickly and completely deplete this shallow inventory, and the makers utterly refuse to step outside their hidebound production schematic, relying upon their likely-outdated vision of market size and demand. I've called this tendency "Rip Van Winkle Manufacturing Mode", because I believe sincerely that the mainstream makers are--figuratively speaking--asleep against a tree trunk, and that their whining screed about customers being at fault for the depleted market and empty shelves is not unlike Rip's statement about being a loyal Tory, when awakened after 20 years' slumber and the onset of the American nation's break from Great Britain. To a point, the makers are correct--end users have indeed bought out all the makers can produce--but there is a corresponding epic failure of the ammo/component manufacturers to see the tsunami approaching that is the modern firearms and ammo demand level. Their collective response has been to largely pretend it isn't there, and/or to hope it goes away.

I don't think I'm too far off the mark.

[Iowa Fox]

Nothing in 22 LR in New Mexico or Arizona since last winter, so over 7 months.
No one mentioning prices?

22 LR rimfire started to dry up in March of 2012 around here. I kept ordering cases of 5K for my Sons & grandkids when I could find them on the net at a reasonable price until December. A case sounds like a lot but when I split them up its less than 2 bricks for each of us. I keep seeing high grade target imports still coming in but who can afford to shoot a lot of rimfire that is 7 or 8 dollars up for 50 rounds. If they can import the target grade they can import the tin can grade at a reasonable price for the majority of rimfire shooters. The more I think about it this thing is really starting to smell fishy to this old man. I guess we could get rid of the 10/22s and auto loading pistols going back to the single shots. Wait a minute I'm not getting rid of the Smith M 41.

[GabbyM]

Pretty obvious to me there are more guns and ammunition in the hands of US citizens than ever before.

[Petrol & Powder]

9.3X62AL - I like your thinking and totally agree with your assessment of the government's woeful inefficeny. The good news is - if you're correct about the idustry's lack of modern planning, someone will eventually step up to fill that demand. It maybe a foreign supplier at first until the domestic makers wake up. If there's money to be made, somebody will step up to the plate.

[Bad Water Bill]

How many firearms have been manufactured or imported just since B H O tool office?

How much have the ammo mfgrs stepped up production to feed these hungry firearms?

It would be interesting to see what the answers are.

[Petrol & Powder]

Pretty obvious to me there are more guns and ammunition in the hands of US citizens than ever before.

/\ YES

Estimate of U.S. Population in 2012 - 313,914,040 (U.S. Census)
Estimated number of firearms privately owned in U.S. - 120,000,000 (NRA-ILA 2-15-13)
Number of firearms sold by Strum Ruger in First Quarter of 2012 (just one company in just one quarter!) - 1,000,000. ( The Washington Times 6-18-12)

[Swamp Man]

I just checked a few Canadian sites and one had about 8-9 kinds of 22lr CCI Blazers,Stingers some Remington and others I never heard of before. Then I checked another site they had in stock 49 22lr listings some were for the same brand and kind singles and bricks.

[Gliden07]

Wow just left the walmart and they had ammo. 22lr, 22mag, all pistol ammo, 5.56, 7.62. First time in a while to see cci mini mags and bulk packs of federal. Maybe things are looking up. $7.47 for the mini mags. Two box limit.

Whats a CCI Mini Mag???? :kidding:

[GaryN]

I don't see a vast, governmental conspiracy to deprive the country of ammunition. I worked for a sector of the .gov, and that lot can't put together a retirement party for a mid-level clerk/typist without private sector assistance. My view--that is a wrong number.

What makes sense to me--and I allege this on very small amounts of data and a surplus of experienced opinion--is that the ammo & components industry is very limited in size and scale. They have many years of sales and production data upon which they base acquisition of raw materials--the sizing and scheduling of production runs--and their inventory model is "just in time"-based, to control warehousing costs of materials and finished product. The bottom line here is that the supply chain is not deep or comprehensive, and never has been. Consumer rushes on ammo and components quickly and completely deplete this shallow inventory, and the makers utterly refuse to step outside their hidebound production schematic, relying upon their likely-outdated vision of market size and demand. I've called this tendency "Rip Van Winkle Manufacturing Mode", because I believe sincerely that the mainstream makers are--figuratively speaking--asleep against a tree trunk, and that their whining screed about customers being at fault for the depleted market and empty shelves is not unlike Rip's statement about being a loyal Tory, when awakened after 20 years' slumber and the onset of the American nation's break from Great Britain. To a point, the makers are correct--end users have indeed bought out all the makers can produce--but there is a corresponding epic failure of the ammo/component manufacturers to see the tsunami approaching that is the modern firearms and ammo demand level. Their collective response has been to largely pretend it isn't there, and/or to hope it goes away.

I would agree with this. It makes the most sense.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

/\ YES

Estimate of U.S. Population in 2012 - 313,914,040 (U.S. Census)
Estimated number of firearms privately owned in U.S. - 120,000,000 (NRA-ILA 2-15-13)
Number of firearms sold by Strum Ruger in First Quarter of 2012 (just one company in just one quarter!) - 1,000,000. ( The Washington Times 6-18-12)

I thought we were much closer to 1 gun per person , not that each person has 1 but 40 some % have 2+

the other thing to figure in is all the ammo used to test ,and include the 2 casings in the box with a new pistol , heard the Prescot AZ plant was going thru 20k in rounds a day

[oldred]

Mustang - I agree that emotion must be excluded from the assessment of the situation.

I'm not ready to buy into the conspiracy theories and as you point out, there a lot of variables to consider.

To support the conspiracy theory that the manufactures' are engage in price fixing there would have to be a cartel, a monopoly agreement or some other organized collaboration that would fail if one importer or domestic ammunition company failed to join the agreement.

The government(s) [Federal & State] may be purchasing large amounts of ammunition but I fail to believe that those orders could exceed the demands placed upon the supply by the private sector. Furthermore, those orders existed before the current shortage and private sector production routinely met those demands plus the demands of the private consumers.

There could be a shortage of raw materials such as copper, lead, zinc, etc. but I don't know. The assertions that large portions of that supply are being purchased by a foreign entity is not based in facts. Again, the suppliers of those materials would have to "join" the "conspiracy".

The government is not buying .22 rimfire ammunition.
The manufactures and retailers will continue to sell ammunition at the highest price the market will bear.
Non-gun people aren't the ones empting the ammunition shelves at Wal-Mart, Dicks and your local gun store.

I don't know if this shortage is real or just perceived to be real. What I do know is that there are a lot of gun owners/consumers that don't WANT to even consider the possibility that WE are the ones supporting the high demands and high prices.

The notion that we, the consumers, COULD POSSIBLY BE responsible for the high prices and shortages seems to be so distasteful that many are willing to subscribe to conspiracy theories first and logic second.



Spot on analysis! Unfortunately some folks will see a Government conspiracy in any situation but the real problem should be very obvious to anyone, just look at the line forming at the Wal-Mart sporting goods dept when ammo comes in and THERE is the problem! There are a LOT of people still buying to resell at a profit and a heck of a lot more that are just adding to their stash, I know of one guy (I have mentioned him in another thread) that has well over 20,000 rounds of 22 rf and is still buying when he can find it and I bet he hasn't shot more than a 100 rounds in the last year! His reasoning is that "I better get them while I can because the Government (Government again) is going to outlaw them, now multiple this guy a few thousand times across the country then add in the legitimate shooters who just want to "make sure they don't run out" and the problem is plain as day without any Government involvement. If nothing else happens to start another panic the stockpiling will stop and manufacturers will catch up, when they do I am thinking sales will fall flat since the market will be flooded with ammo and fewer people will be buying than before the panic started. Of course all this depends on nothing else happening to extend/restart the panic and even then it will happen slowly but maybe in less than a year we might see some real bargain prices on ammo.

[MWesner55]

It has started to end but I think it's a long way from totally done in Michigan.

[ACrowe25]

It has started to end but I think it's a long way from totally done in Michigan.

Gota agree here...

[Petrol & Powder]

I thought we were much closer to 1 gun per person , not that each person has 1 but 40 some % have 2+

the other thing to figure in is all the ammo used to test ,and include the 2 casings in the box with a new pistol , heard the Prescot AZ plant was going thru 20k in rounds a day

I did not consider the ammunition used by gun makers to test guns and provide fired casings where mandated. An increase in guns sales would require an expenditure in ammo for testing. I never thought about an increase in the manufacturing of firearms producing an increase in ammunition demand, even before the new guns were shipped. Good point.
Clearly 120 million guns disbursed among 313 million people will never equate to one gun per person. As you point out, some people will own one, some people will own several and some people will own zero; but it's still a fairly high percentage. Even when you factor in the anti-gun people, prohibited people, the very young and very poor; it's still a high ratio. I think that's a good thing for America.

[Petrol & Powder]

Spot on analysis! Unfortunately some folks will see a Government conspiracy in any situation but the real problem should be very obvious to anyone, just look at the line forming at the Wal-Mart sporting goods dept when ammo comes in and THERE is the problem! There are a LOT of people still buying to resell at a profit and a heck of a lot more that are just adding to their stash, I know of one guy (I have mentioned him in another thread) that has well over 20,000 rounds of 22 rf and is still buying when he can find it and I bet he hasn't shot more than a 100 rounds in the last year! His reasoning is that "I better get them while I can because the Government (Government again) is going to outlaw them, now multiple this guy a few thousand times across the country then add in the legitimate shooters who just want to "make sure they don't run out" and the problem is plain as day without any Government involvement. If nothing else happens to start another panic the stockpiling will stop and manufacturers will catch up, when they do I am thinking sales will fall flat since the market will be flooded with ammo and fewer people will be buying than before the panic started. Of course all this depends on nothing else happening to extend/restart the panic and even then it will happen slowly but maybe in less than a year we might see some real bargain prices on ammo.

/\Precisely !

[41 mag fan]

I guess the Walmart people are lining up on the shipping docks and buying up all the foreign 22lr that comes in too.

You're not seeing any 22lr ammo in any amounts hitting the shops and stores.
Did anyone mention that maybe 22lr are more expensive to make, less profit margin, so the ammo makers are producing the higher profit ammo first. Wouldn't surprise me if they are all made on the same line.

[dragon813gt]

I find it hard to believe that rimfire and centerfire are made on the same line. From a simple mechanical standpoint they need to be assembled differently. What makes more sense is the economics you mentioned. Why pay the workers to run the machines to produce rimfire if the profits aren't there? This is more likely to be the case.

[10 ga]

I know the shortage is over. :kidding:

How, you say? Well the mods [smilie=s:

over on Rimfire Central, RFC, said so. And now delete any post :killingpc

referencing the shortage and removed the forum :hijack:


devoted to discussing about the shortage and where ammo could be found.


I wonder if RFC will give me another warning for posting this here?

10 ga

[felix]

The ammo makers have quotas and they are keeping them. ... felix

[Rex]

Our local WalMart had a couple boxes of .45 ACP and a few 9MM yesterday besides some rifle ammo. Not much but it is an improvement. I can find a lot of IMR powders but no 2400 and you have to work for primers though I did get a brick of Remington small pistol yesterday. Paid $10.00 more than I thought I should but, hey, I have primers.

[mold maker]

The new first time owners of especially 22LR guns are creating an increased demand that was unforeseen by the ammo makers. On top of that the usual long time users of 22 LR ammo, were accustomed to seeing shelves full at all outlets at cheap prices. There was almost no need to stockpile.
Then the political scare caught everyone's attention, and the shelves were quickly emptied. The just in time mentality was suddenly way over taxed, and there was no inventory to ship from. Suddenly every 22LR owner wanted 10 times what they had ever owned. When it became apparent, that there was a shortage, everybody hunted and bought all they could afford, which created a so called black market, for huge profit.
Seeing that, many unemployed folks (nothing better to do) started to camp out at the WallyWorlds and such, to buy what ever hit the sales area. They had found a cheap (free) way to double their money.
The ammo mfg was already running at or near capacity, to fill orders that were increased at the first sign of increased sales. Improving capacity is an expensive and time consuming deal. Equipment to make 22lr ammo is in shorter supply than the ammo. It has to be ordered, built, tested, shipped, set up, retested, maned and supplied. Even after the machinery is in place, increased raw material needs have to be met, with another "Just in time", supply chain.
All of this combined with a lazy economy means that nothing got done ahead of time. None of it was predicted far enough ahead to prevent the state we are in now.
At some point, the supplies will over stock sales, and shelves will slowly fill.
Until the bloated inventory causes prices to decline, we have already shown what we are willing to pay. Eventually supply and demand will stabilize, and the same conditions will exist for it to happen all over again.
This isn't the first time and wont be the last.
Any sane person that has experienced it, will know what to do for the future.

[Love Life]

Something else to think about is test firing. All the guns that get manufactured (millions) get test fired right? Then there are the handguns that need to have a fired casing right? Boom. More ammo expended.

[oldred]

The ammo makers have quotas and they are keeping them. ... felix



Yep they sure do, make every round they possibly can for the foreseeable future! Fellas the ammo makers are NOT holding down the supply! It's a dream market for them right now and most are running 24/7 trying to fill orders, what CEO in his right mind would limit production when they can sell every single piece of their product before it's even manufactured! It's just absurd to think the ammo makers are holding back, their stock holders would tar&feather the excs if that were happening.

[repawn]

FWIW - at gander my today - multiple bricks of various brands - many packs of cci 100 and a ton of boxes of 50 - it was the most 22 I has seen in a long time - bought a brick - limit one. Nice to see it all and at ganders usual price (not exactly cheap) but not bad. 7.99 for packs of 100, 4.99 for 50 packs and 19.99 for a brick of 325.

[w0fms]

I couldn't get CCI 22LR S.V or Mini-Mag for much less than 6 cents a round before this all started! Once it's over I'll need to ask you who your supplier is! ;)

[Iowa Fox]

Imports Bill. I keep thinking about the PMC from S Korea we enjoyed at one time. If a person could reintroduce that to this market the consumers would be on it like a dog on a bone.

[MUSTANG]

Not sure what you mean by that?

I talked to three people at two factories. Federal & CCI, which is the same ATK Corp. I learned this:
They are making 3 million rounds 22's per day.

In the last year over a billion primers have been produced, and 6 to 7 billion rounds of 22's sold, this estimate is factoring in all US makers.

The price increase at ATK was "miniscule in April" 2013. The increases we are seeing is at the retailer level. (So Walmart, like CTD, is stroking us too. Anyone who has raised the price since this time last year it is at the retail or wholesale level.)

20 million of 22LR ammo was reserved & shipped for 4H/ Boy Scouts shooting sports this year.

Asked if there was a problem with getting raw materials such as brass, powder, lead: "There is no shortage of raw materials to the factories, the problem is turning it into ammo fast enough."

So this information, just now came from 3 phone calls to people with heart beats at the factories.

No personal or group factory tours were being done, but I wouldn't give up on that.


Did some quick analysis, which indicates that the information provided to Bill is either incomplete, or was inaccurate. I noted/homed in on the information that 1 billion primers were being produced annually, and that seemed too low so I did some quick analysis based on assumptions. The following table provides total number of Sworn Law Enforcement and Uniformed Military in U.S. (Active and Reserve Forces). I made assumptions on numbers of rounds fired in TO (Table of Organization) individual weapons (Rifle or Pistol). The numbers do not include crew type weapons (Squad or light machine Guns - 5.56 & 7.62), Sniper Rifles, etc...


78048

Note that using my assumptions for rounds expended in Military & LEO Basic Training and Quals, more than 1/2 Billion rounds (Primers) are expended annually than are produced based on info provided to Bill. This is further complicated since forces deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as Combat training at other locations use large quantity's of small arms Ammo (Primers) not identified in the analysis. No where have I addressed the civilian shooting market. A production rate of 1 Billion primers would not meet Government rounds expended rate, let alone civilian shooting & "HOARDING".

This analysis is not meant to indicate a Government or Industry conspiracy, rather that the information currently available does not seem to be reliable based on my assumptions for rounds expended by US LEO and Military.

Mustang

[ZmanWakeForest]

I would agree that there is more available than in recent times, but it is way short of where it used to be. When I say more available, I mean....more available if you want to pay double the price.....

[Alvarez Kelly]

Did some quick analysis, which indicates that the information provided to Bill is either incomplete, or was inaccurate. I noted/homed in on the information that 1 billion primers were being produced annually, and that seemed too low so I did some quick analysis based on assumptions. The following table provides total number of Sworn Law Enforcement and Uniformed Military in U.S. (Active and Reserve Forces). I made assumptions on numbers of rounds fired in TO (Table of Organization) individual weapons (Rifle or Pistol). The numbers do not include crew type weapons (Squad or light machine Guns - 5.56 & 7.62), Sniper Rifles, etc...


78048

Note that using my assumptions for rounds expended in Military & LEO Basic Training and Quals, more than 1/2 Billion rounds (Primers) are expended annually than are produced based on info provided to Bill. This is further complicated since forces deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as Combat training at other locations use large quantity's of small arms Ammo (Primers) not identified in the analysis. No where have I addressed the civilian shooting market. A production rate of 1 Billion primers would not meet Government rounds expended rate, let alone civilian shooting & "HOARDING".

This analysis is not meant to indicate a Government or Industry conspiracy, rather that the information currently available does not seem to be reliable based on my assumptions for rounds expended by US LEO and Military.

Mustang

All I can say is you are making some mighty big assumptions, just based on my limited experience. I was in the USAF for 20+ years. In all that time, I fired less than 100 centerfire rounds, and less than 500 22LR rounds. I was far from the exception. Most assigned stateside don't have to have to stay weapons qualified unless in a deployment slot. I went years at a time without touching a weapon, and then had to fire qualifying with rim fire ammo.

It was almost as bad for my Army reserve son. Although he did fire more, he still didn't fire more than 100 rounds most years.

Just something to think about.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I was just thinking... I fired more 7.62x39 Russian rounds in a few days while in Kuwait than I fired 5.56 in 20 years!

Note my Avatar photo...

[9.3X62AL]

In lieu of not going on a factory tours of ammo makers, I'll start calling them.
All this speculating as fact is making water in the wind. We need first hand facts.

I won't hold my breath waiting on "facts". The facts I can see plainly are that shelves are pretty much emptied or greatly picked-over. The ammo makers blame the customers, the customers blame the ammo makers. We can put the hat on each other 'til the cows come home, and it won't matter a d--m. The fact is, manufacturing potential is short of need--and it goes unaddressed every time one of these shortages take place, then recover. I won't hold my breath waiting on THOSE conditions to alter, either. The best possible counter-measure would be to boycott all new ammo and new firearm purchases for 6-12 months, which might enable the makers to get caught up. It might also serve to remind them who really butters their bread, just seeing end users shut off the gate valve for a time. Again, that wouldn't help folks new to the hobby that want to run their toys, though. At the very minimum--REFUSE to deal with any azzhat at a gun show or working out of the back of his car who sells ammo at ridiculous prices. Make no mistake--some of these people are the same vermin that sell meth and marijuana to kids (and adults), and their mark-ups are similar after cutting and adulteration.

[Bad Water Bill]

When did a major ammo mfgr actually add a structure on their property to handle the 5-6 MILLION a year or so firearms being produced?

Firearms mfgrs have been adding on,building new facilities to meet demand for many years.

Yes I believe ammo mfgrs are running at max capacity.

The problem might be they are still in 1980 land.

This IS 2013 folks.

[oldred]

The fact is ammo manufacturers would have to double production, at least, in order to meet current demand and that is simply not practical in the short term nor would it be reasonable to expect it to even be possible. In the long term it could be done but only at a HUGE investment in manufacturing ability (new factories, etc) and no company could be expected to lay out that kind of investment based on a short term spike in demand! Blaming the ammo makers is simply absurd as they are producing every round they can to maximize profits while the demand is there but barring another "incident" demand would likely drop to pre-panic levels before new facilities could even be finished, it makes no sense for the ammo makers to spend their current windfall profits on new facilities that would most likely sit idle when the current spike in demand subsides. Hording and the "get it while I still can" mentality is the problem, it's as simple as that.

[Bad Water Bill]

What PROOF do the ammo mfgrs have that demand by the general public will ever drop below pre B H O demands?

Over 6 MILLION firearms were imported or manufactured and sold in the U S last year alone.

At an educated "guess" over 20 MILLION firearms are now in the hands of folks that were not there just 5 short years ago.

Yes SCALPERS are partially to blame BUT an entire industry that ignores growth in a product That they depend on for their very existence is just not nor should it be acceptable.

If they are not careful someone like "Toyota" just might see a HUGH opportunity and step in just like they did in the auto industry.

Is that what we REALLY want.

[9.3X62AL]

Full agreement with Bad Water Bill. He stated my beliefs succinctly.

[Bad Water Bill]

BadWaterBill,
Call them up and get it from the horses mouth. You have good questions.

If I were younger I just might do that.

At my age I have my hands full fighting for a possibility to EVER get my own CCW card in my own state.

Let some of the younger folks take our challenges to the folks that are trained to beat around the bush and never accept responsibility for their lack of planning.

If this 77 year old could see the handwriting on the wall why couldn't the folks that are eating lobster for supper tonight see it?

[Swamp Man]

If I were younger I just might do that.

At my age I have my hands full fighting for a possibility to EVER get my own CCW card in my own state.

Let some of the younger folks take our challenges to the folks that are trained to beat around the bush and never accept responsibility for their lack of planning.

If this 77 year old could see the handwriting on the wall why couldn't the folks that are eating lobster for supper tonight see it?
That is one reason I'm moving more towards buying products from a growing market,Big Bore Air Rifles. I'm to the point I can no longer count on the firearms Co's to supply my needs in a timely manner. I had plans to buy a few new rifles but I now refuse to buy a rifle I may not be able to feed so I'm investing that money in Big Bore air rifles.

[oldred]

Plentiful ammo soon or not I am afraid higher prices are here to stay, maybe not quite as high as they are now but probably close. Due to to my job keeping me moving and on the road most of the time my guns were in storage for several years and the last time I had bought ammo was back in the late 80's or maybe early 90's but in any case it had been several years. When I retired 4 years ago I settled down on my farm here in East Tn and about 3 years ago I opened up my gun safe and dusted everything off, what a day that was I was like a kid at Christmas! My son and I went out to buy some 45/70 rounds for the Marlin as it was the only thing that I didn't have ammo for, a quick trip into Bass pro and I nearly had the big one right there in the store! I had not looked at 45/70 prices in over 15 years and I just could not grasp $34 for a box of 20 anemic Remington 405 grain rounds and the dang things are even higher now. Ammo prices are obscene to say the least and while I know everything has gone up in price ammo has gone up disproportionally to most anything else and apparently it is not even slowing down. I, like most people here, do not pay these extortionist prices and I load/cast my own but of course I am preaching to the choir mentioning that here, still I just don't understand how folks can afford to shoot factory ammo.

Sorry about the little rant and I guess I went a bit off topic but ammo prices are a touchy subject for me and while the shortage of loaded rounds don't affect me much the prices/availability of components certainly do but then, as the old saying goes, we are all in same boat on that one too.

[Swamp Man]

Plentiful ammo soon or not I am afraid higher prices are here to stay, maybe not quite as high as they are now but probably close. Due to to my job keeping me moving and on the road most of the time my guns were in storage for several years and the last time I had bought ammo was back in the late 80's or maybe early 90's but in any case it had been several years. When I retired 4 years ago I settled down on my farm here in East Tn and about 3 years ago I opened up my gun safe and dusted everything off, what a day that was I was like a kid at Christmas! My son and I went out to buy some 45/70 rounds for the Marlin as it was the only thing that I didn't have ammo for, a quick trip into Bass pro and I nearly had the big one right there in the store! I had not looked at 45/70 prices in over 15 years and I just could not grasp $34 for a box of 20 anemic Remington 405 grain rounds and the dang things are even higher now. Ammo prices are obscene to say the least and while I know everything has gone up in price ammo has gone up disproportionally to most anything else and apparently it is not even slowing down. I, like most people here, do not pay these extortionist prices and I load/cast my own but of course I am preaching to the choir mentioning that here, still I just don't understand how folks can afford to shoot factory ammo.

Sorry about the little rant and I guess I went a bit off topic but ammo prices are a touchy subject for me and while the shortage of loaded rounds don't affect me much the prices/availability of components certainly do but then, as the old saying goes, we are all in same boat on that one too.
The over priced ammo is why I'll be buying a lifetime supply of every caliber I use as soon as stock is back to somewhat normal. I will be doing the same with reloading gear and supplies for my 410's. After that I'll be shifting over to buying only Big Bore air rifles and supplies. There comes a time when enough is enough and I've had enough with the firearms Co's.

[jcwit]

The over priced ammo is why I'll be buying a lifetime supply of every caliber I use as soon as stock is back to somewhat normal. I will be doing the same with reloading gear and supplies for my 410's. After that I'll be shifting over to buying only Big Bore air rifles and supplies. There comes a time when enough is enough and I've had enough with the firearms Co's.

Yup! Sounds like a good plan to me.

As far as the firearm ammo and reloading I already this not necessarily on purpose unwittingly buy buying items needed or overstocking on them when they were on sale. I've done the same with motor oil, and many household supplies, and food.

Now if I had had a way to safely store gas years ago.

[Swamp Man]

Yup! Sounds like a good plan to me.

As far as the firearm ammo and reloading I already this not necessarily on purpose unwittingly buy buying items needed or overstocking on them when they were on sale. I've done the same with motor oil, and many household supplies, and food.

Now if I had had a way to safely store gas years ago.
I've already done it with fishing gear,reels,rods,hooks,lead you name it I have enough to keep a family of 6 or more fishing for a lifetime. I've done it with small caliber air rifles and supplies as well as good knifes for hunting,fish and kitchen uses. I still have a good bit of ammo so I haven't went without but I plan on never having to face another ammo shortage again. My wife thought I was nuts when I started buying all my fishing gear but a few months back I showed her what things cost in the early 90's and what those same items cost now,she seen the light. I have kids and grandkids so it can all be handed down so this move for price control will go a long ways.

[Hogtamer]

I'd love for Toyota to be in the ammo biz....they make good stuff78115

[2wheelDuke]

I actually saw some .22 on the shelf yesterday at Bass Pro Shops. They had Thunderbolts for $2.49 per 50 round box, limit 3. They were going pretty fast.

I held off, hopefully the ones I didn't buy will go to someone that doesn't have any.

[9.3X62AL]

I actually saw some .22 on the shelf yesterday at Bass Pro Shops. They had Thunderbolts for $2.49 per 50 round box, limit 3. They were going pretty fast.

I held off, hopefully the ones I didn't buy will go to someone that doesn't have any.

THAT is a positive sighting, and the price isn't outta line either. While buying 3 boxes of 22 LR ammo isn't "stripping" or "hoarding" in any sense, the thought about others less well-stocked comes from a good place. Bless you, sir.

[Reloader06]

THAT is a positive sighting, and the price isn't outta line either. While buying 3 boxes of 22 LR ammo isn't "stripping" or "hoarding" in any sense, the thought about others less well-stocked comes from a good place. Bless you, sir.

Spot on. Well done.

Matt

[oldred]

Went back into Wally World and they have some 22WMR still on the shelf, I bought some a week or so ago and they have had it on the shelf all week this week only today they have even more! I was in there Wednesday and they had 3 or 4 boxes sitting there (22 WMR) and today they had about a dozen or so, no 22 LR however but the ammo selection in general is much better than it was a couple of months ago and just the fact that ANY rimfire ammo has been available all week is a really good sign even if it is the slower moving magnum stuff.

[Blacksmith]

Report on the local Wally World as of 8/8/13.

Three box limit per customer per day.
No .22 anything.
No 9 mm.
No .38 Special or .357 Mag.
One box .380.
Five boxes of .40 S&W.
Eleven boxes of .45 ACP.
No .223/5.56.
No .30-30.
One box .30-06.
Two boxes .308.
A smattering of other less common calibers but only one or a few boxes of any caliber.
Shotgun shells there were a number of boxes on the shelves but they had a pallet load of clay birds, probably more targets than shells.

[merlin101]

I picked up 3 boxes of Federal Automatch .22LR today at Wally world $18 per box of 325rnds. ! box for my son in law, 1 box for best friend and one for me! And they still had some left.

[41 mag fan]

Went to LGS yesterday, there's one close to me, that I drove by going to the other one. Sign outside had 22 ammo in stock on it.
When I got to the other LGS, I was talking to the guy, he said last Sat he got in 22LR. He advertised it, and when he got to the store that Sat morning, he had 40 people lined up waiting.
He actually counted, because he had so much, and wanted to spread it out to them. He does limit right now powder, primers, and ammo.
But 40 people at a place that 20 people would be hard put to stand shoulder to shoulder in....crazy.

[dakotashooter2]

The only .22 I have seen around here just showed up . CCIs $4.99/50 rnd box and eagles for $3.99 40 rnd box. I'm NOT paying .10 rnd for .22.............

[crawfobj]

Saw my first .22 ammo since all this mess started. Cabelas in Allen TX had about 25 bricks of Remington at normal prices, limit one per customer. They had one less when I left.

[9.3X62AL]

The only .22 I have seen around here just showed up . CCIs $4.99/50 rnd box and eagles for $3.99 40 rnd box. I'm NOT paying .10 rnd for .22.............

I recall Mini-Mags being $6.50-$7.00/100 before The Cataclysm hit us. I won't be too surprised to see that edge upward once they re-appear.

I'm kinda jazzed to read that someone actually found 500-packs of 22 LR for sale someplace. The "one per customer" rationing bit is probably a good idea until more places have more inventory in stock.

[crawfobj]

What was the "normal price"?

I think they we're around $20 or $22. Higher than it should be, but I think that's about what cabelas has always sold them for. And then there's the whole thing about beggars and choosers, etc. I was so shocked to see them that I bought some just because I could!

[Swamp Man]

I recall Mini-Mags being $6.50-$7.00/100 before The Cataclysm hit us. I won't be too surprised to see that edge upward once they re-appear. I'll go check I think I have a box of those from a little over a year ago that should have a price sticker on it.

[Swamp Man]

From a LGS a little over a year back CCI M-M the price 7.39. Wal-Mart always has a cheaper price then the LGS so 6.50 -7.00 sounds about right for our local W.M's.

[TXBW]

I keep a close eye on both online and brick & mortar shops selling reloading components. In San Antonio, interest in buying up as much ammo as you can has seemed to slowed down. Some stores have placed limits. I've almost completely given up on Bass Pro on reloading components. Cabela's has quite a bit of good stock coming in and they don't place it on the shelves all at once either. I've done multiple stops there in one day and each time the availability of smokeless powder has changed.

Also I notice a lot of firearms up for grabs, likely from those people who bought them up back in January / February who couldn't really afford them. That's another sign that things are starting to calm down. If anything Biden has said comes true, another gun grab attempt is going to be made this fall. Boo!!

[Three44s]

I am still working on my big stock of Rem. Golden boys that I bought from BiMart on sale ten years ago for $7.99 per 525 rounds ........ limit 4

............. slowly working on them ..........


Three 44s

[Swamp Man]

I've already done it with fishing gear,reels,rods,hooks,lead you name it I have enough to keep a family of 6 or more fishing for a lifetime. I've done it with small caliber air rifles and supplies as well as good knifes for hunting,fish and kitchen uses. I still have a good bit of ammo so I haven't went without but I plan on never having to face another ammo shortage again. My wife thought I was nuts when I started buying all my fishing gear but a few months back I showed her what things cost in the early 90's and what those same items cost now,she seen the light. I have kids and grandkids so it can all be handed down so this move for price control will go a long ways.


Hey that's what this thread is about the ammo shortage so your not far off the main topic. Talk about ammo prices I feel your pain their killing us guys that love our little 410's. I was going to set up to reload for my 410's then boom this whole shortage mess popped up.

[montana_charlie]

In Post #66 we were told of a 'warning' to sellers that they should get rid of all of their high priced ammo before the end of August.

Has there been anything further on this .. like an indication of just what is supposed to happen/change at the end of August?

CM

[Love Life]

Has there been anything further on this .. like an indication of just what is supposed to happen/change at the end of August?

CM

Unicorns are going to fly over the country and poop bricks of cheap 22lr ammo. Center fire ammo is already back on the shelves.

[jmort]

As in most every case, the laws of supply and demand and swinging back in the right direction. Shelves are filling up here at Walmart and Big Five. Still have the dumb-a$$ .22 LR buyer/gougers lining-up at delivery time. I figure by next spring will be close to normal and next panic will occur if democrats take house or democrat is elected POTUS in 2016. A real crisis that will be overlooked is the replacement of one of the sane SCOTUS Justices by hussien. That would be worst case scenario but fortunately, would not register with most of the population as the catastrophic event that it would be.

[oldred]

A real crisis that will be overlooked is the replacement of one of the sane SCOTUS Justices by hussien. That would be worst case scenario but fortunately, would not register with most of the population as the catastrophic event that it would be.



Yep that's the kind of thing nightmares consist of but most folks are just totally clueless, or so it seems to me anyway, of just how much of a catastrophe that can be! When a bad president is elected (such as in the last two elections) we are stuck with them for 4 to 8 years and even during that time we have some opposition to their policies plus they have to worry about up-coming elections for themselves or their cohorts so that keeps them somewhat in check. Not so with a supreme court Justice (or in-justice as the case may be!), those rascals are there until they retire or die and they don't have to worry about what anyone thinks! An Obama appointed Supreme Court Justice could do us more harm than everything that we have faced in the last 8 years, our Constitution does not seem to matter much to them.

[dtknowles]

Yep that's the kind of thing nightmares consist of but most folks are just totally clueless, or so it seems to me anyway, of just how much of a catastrophe that can be! When a bad president is elected (such as in the last two elections) we are stuck with them for 4 to 8 years and even during that time we have some opposition to their policies plus they have to worry about up-coming elections for themselves or their cohorts so that keeps them somewhat in check. Not so with a supreme court Justice (or in-justice as the case may be!), those rascals are there until they retire or die and they don't have to worry about what anyone thinks! An Obama appointed Supreme Court Justice could do us more harm than everything that we have faced in the last 8 years, our Constitution does not seem to matter much to them.

Seems very likely he will get to replace at least one of the Justices, I think that was one of the reasons to run a moderate Republican against him better to win with a marginal candidate than lose with a True Conservative candidate.

Tim

[Petrol & Powder]

I'd love for Toyota to be in the ammo biz....they make good stuff78115

Awesome Boolit Buggy !

[dragon813gt]

I was able to buy my 3 box limit of Federal AutoMatch at Walmart today. First time since october I've been able to buy any. I was there middle of the day and they were just putting it on the shelves. The handgun ammo selection was very thin. With very little. But the rifle case was almost fully stocked. This is the first time I've ever seen 308 in the case. For whatever reason none of the five walmarts by me stock it. And there was plenty of shotgun ammo. But boy do I miss the days of the $20 value packs. They're up to $27. For that price I will buy higher quality ammo at Cabelas for the same price. They always have pallets of shotgun ammo available.

[TheCelt]

This was a sad day on one hand and a lucky day on the other. I live in rural NW Florida not to far from the Alabama line and took an early morning drive to the Wal-Mart that went in a few years ago. There was a line about 10 deep of folks around my age, late 50s to early 70s, lined up to buy one box of 100 Winchester 22LR ammo. I tagged on at the end hoping that there was 11 boxes. We all talked a bit about the way things have changed and I got downright sad. Here we have grown men that use this on their farms and ranches lining up for one box of 22LR ammo paying the same price we paid for a brick just a few short years ago. I swear, I worry a lot about where we are headed. As I paid for the box of ammo I was lucky enough to get someone asked the saleslady when they'd be getting more. Her response was that this was the first they'd had in two weeks and don't have a clue when they'll get more. I guess I picked a good morning to drive to Wal-Mart. Almost wish I hadn't though.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

If I had to shoot factory made ammo, or as they used to say,"store bought" I couldn't do much shooting. As for .22 ammo, a friend gave me about a gazillion rounds a few years ago and I am still working on it. I gave away much of it. Now if I could walk along a ditch bank and plink at frogs or what have you, like many of you guys, I would have already popped the lot of them. Sadly this is Southern Kommifornia and the only place you can wear a pistol on your hip is far out in the desert and when I do go there, which is rare anymore, I don't take a .22.

[375supermag]

Hi...

It's Saturday and that means that my son and I went on one of our gun shop circuit runs today.

He had to work this morning and I had yard work to do, so we didn't get out of the house until about 4:00PM.

The LGS nearest has been closed all week...owner's are on vacation, so that was a no-go from the git-go.

We drove up to Elizabethtown,Pa to the Trop Gun Shop (about a 20-minute drive, give or take a couple of minutes).
The powder selection was a poor as it has been in some weeks, but centerfire ammo is available in most calibers (handgun and rifle...including bulk packs of 200-250 rds. depending on caliber).

Bullet selection is OK...lots of rifle bullets, except Hornady. Practically no cast lead bullets, as has been the norm for some time now. Handgun bullets were pretty scarce, except there were a lot of Hornady .357 125gr HP-XTPs.

New and used firearm racks were well-stocked...prices are generally a bit higher than other smaller shops in the area.

I wandered over to the rimfire ammo shelf and what to my wondering eyes should appear???

There were at least three shelves full of .22 rimfire ammunition. There were various manufacturers, and assorted bullet weights, styles and velocity ratings available.
Almost like the good ole days...except there were no bulk packs. However, the limit per customer has been raised to 4 boxes of 50ct per day or two 100ct boxes. Basically, a total of 200 rounds per customer per day.
Anyway...I bought 4 boxes of 50ct CCI Standard Velocity 40gr LRN for $3.99 each and my son bought 4 boxes of 50ct American Eagle High Velocity 38gr copper-plated HPs for S2.99 each.

Not too bad, price-wise.

We then drove up the road about a mile to Kinsey's Outdoors where we found Winchester Super-X .22LR 37gr copper-plated HP 50ct rated at 1280fps @$3.99/box. They were fairly limited in selection, but what they had was at a 3 box per customer per day limit. I bought three boxes just to give us a little of variety of loadings for the upcoming squirrel season. My son really enjoys hunting squirrels with a .22 rifle, so now he has three more loadings to use to test his Henry lever-action. I think we are done with .22LR cartridge stocking up for now...at least, until we start to see some of the bulk packs show up. We probably have close to 5K rounds of .22LR in various manufacturers, bullet styles and velocity ratings in stock around the estate now.

I suppose I need to focus on finding some .22Mag ammo now.
I really haven't been shooting much of that the last few years, so I probably only have around 500 rounds on hand. I think I better remedy that situation, considering the shortages that it appears we are just now coming out of (to some degree).

The reason I think we are starting to come out of the shortages is because although Trop was very busy, very few people were buying .22 rimfire and there was a lot of it on the shelves.
When they got a shipment of 22 rimfire in a few weeks ago, the limit was two boxes and everybody was buying all they could.

I saw people pick up 22LR ammo today and put it back on the shelf. Nobody was doing that a few weeks ago.

[casterofboolits]

After reading this thread I checked the 22 LR I bought for my Hi-Standard Spot King and Supermatic Tournament before the SHTF at a small LGS near me.

CCI Mini Mag, 100 rounds @ $6.57 one box

Winchester Super X, 100 rounds @ $6.41 two boxes

My buddy and I were talking about reloading 9mm for less than the asking price for 22 LR a few days ago! Let's hope things get backto somewhat normal soon.