Still having trouble....

[medicstimpy]

OK, another nite wasted sitting in front of the Pro4-20 melter. The whole batch is no good once again. I remelted all them reject bullets from last time and tried again. THe whole batch is the same results.

Bullets not completely filling out so have round edges where they should be sharp.

I set the thing at a high temperature. Made sure my 6-cav's were nice and hot. And still the same effect. I'm so fed up because now I am completely out of bullets. I even ran out of FMJ's because I used them up while trying to make cast ones.

Again, I tried adjusting the flow and the only time it seems to work is when I put the flow so high it comes out so fast it screws up the next cavity. I didn't buy a 6-cav to have only 1, 2 or 3 good bullets come out because the flow is way to fast and the only way to get good bullets.

Is there any way it could be the ingots my friend gave me in the first place? I fluxed the mix several times and have redone the bullets so many times now that there is basically very little impurities in it. I know I did get a good batch the first and second time I tried the new molds. But this time.... :???:

I don't know what to do no more. I don't want to have to go out and spend $$$ on cast iron molds. :(

[454PB]

If you own another mould, try using it to see if the alloy is bad. In very general terms, failure to fill-out and wrinkled boolits usually indicates a too low temperature, casting too slow, oil or contamination in the mould, bad mould venting, or a bad alloy.

I'm betting on either too low a temperature or a contaminated mould. Using another mould will eliminate the possibility of polluted alloy.

[9.3X62AL]

Another fix might be to smoke the mold cavities with either a butane lighter or wooden match--get carbon on the cavity surfaces to slow the heat-sink effect of the mold blocks. Few aluminum moulds work well for me without this step, regardless of alloy or its temperature.

[PatMarlin]

Ditto on above. Yep persistance is in order til ya find out what's going on. Don't give up.

I like the other mold idea for sure. These six cavities molds take a bit of feel to get working. To fast a flow it wants to rocket out of (small) cavities. To slow not a good fill.

One thing you can try is to make sure you strive to get the best round puddle of a spruce on each hole you can while pouring. Tip and keep the mold balanced so the lead puddles on each hole without flowing into the next.

Works for me anyway. I've never watched pro- speed casters like BruceB and other experience casters here, but have just found my own way. Just got to keep at it and not stop.. :drinks:

[Jim]

Forgive me if my questions seem stupid, but...........
Do you KNOW what's in your mix? I run my pro IV-20 wide open feeding a six ganger and the boolits come out beautiful. If you're working with straight lead, you might need to add some tin. Second thought is, do you KNOW that your furnace is heating to max capacity? If it ain't, ain't nothin' gonna change 'till you get that fixed.
Just a little thinkin' out loud here.

[sundog]

You said, "cav's".

How many and what boolit designs?

Cast iron moulds don't necessarily make 'better' boolts than aluminium. Two days ago I used my 454-310-K for the first time. BUT, I did some work on it prior - one of my world famous lee-ment jobs. I also used Bull Plate for the first time - on that mould.

The pot was cranked on high, mould very well preheated, and I still made about 6 or 8 throws before getting good boolits. Once it settled in, no rejects.

I get the impression you are running 2 moulds. Try one. I ladle pour the 6 bangers usually, starting at the hinge and work toward the handle. By the time I finish filling the mould, I pick up the sprue from the last throw and put it back in the pot. By then the just filled mould is ready to break the sprue and dump the boolits, and fill again.

Make sure your mould is clean, all over. Al's suggestion of a light smoke on the cavities is a sure winner with a balky mould.

I have a few moulds that don't like straight WW, so a little solder or pelletized pure tin, and voila.

All that said, there isn't any reason why you moulds should not work.

If your alloy is good, my guess is they are not clean or not hot enough.

[hiram]

If you have a friend that casts, ask him if he can cast some of your alloy in his molds using his pot. Maybe you can try a friend's alloy in your pot.

[sundog]

Hiram, I would be more apt to try a 'troubled' mould with a buddy's alloy than vice versa. If your alloy should be contaminated (zinc, most likely) it could cause problems in a mould that previously had none. Just a thought.

Medic, find out from your friend what's in the ingots he gave you.

[Char-Gar]

I agree with the others about the causes of your problem. I had this happen once and I could not cure the problem. It turned out the control on my Lyman furnace was on the fritz and the melt would not get hot enough to do the job correctly even when the setting was on it's highest.

I sent it to Lyman and they fixed it. Do you have a lead thermometer and have you checked the temp of t he melt?

[Pepe Ray]

All these guys give great advice on different techniques. But consider this.
Most of these solutions are addressing minor (read inexpensive) problems.
If you've got contaminated alloy the fix is more risky because of the degree of contamination.
1st. Your buddy doesn't know whats in the mix or he isn't a buddy.
2nd. While your f#$&*^'n around your risking contaminating more of the good stuff or equipment,(This is a point I'm relying on the forum about.)
3rd. Just be carefull to NOT waste any more good alloy untill you've established the quality of the problem/unknown gift alloy.
Pepe Ray

[montana_charlie]

I set the thing at a high temperature.
What does your thermometer say?
CM

[44man]

There is one thing you have not tried! Zinc will do this no matter what temperature you cast at. TURN THE POT DOWN to 600 degrees or less when you start so the lead barely melts and skim everything that is crystallized looking from the surface. Do NOT flux first.
I have pure lead that got some zinc in it somehow and I have to do this with every pot full or I will waste my tin that I need to add and none of the boolits will fill out.

[Ricochet]

Skimming the zinc off that way is exactly what the lead refiners do. Works.

[Onlymenotu]

there are some great ideas here...... I know it's a bottom pour pot,,,,,,, but have you tryed dipping any of them,,,, tilting the mold while pouring or preasure filling... my 1st guess would be as already stated cold mold.... or dirty mold and or a venting issue

[nvbirdman]

If you have a friend that casts or even someone on this forum, give them the mould and ask them to cast a few boolits. Their pot, their alloy. This will tell you if it's the mould. Then try a few pounds of your alloy in their pot. This should help narrow it down.
BTW it would help if we knew where you are.

[dubber123]

Not necessarily Lee bashing, but I had a brand new Lee bottom pour that crapped out the third time I used it. I kept getting poorly filled out bullets, even with it set on max, and it finally went solid right in the pot. I found out later, after already giving it to a friend, that the throw into the cement cellar wall apparently fixed it. I believe it's still working for him. If you can get a thermometer, I'd check to see what your actual temp is. The pot may say "hot", the lead in it may say, '500 degrees", not enough to fill out a mould.

[Buckshot]

..................A way to get almost perfect slugs even if zinc contaminated is to cast VERY hot. This is the way I normally start casting with Lee moulds anyway, as things settle down quickly and I get good slugs from the git-go.

So you have determined the mould is clean. You've tried it with the cavities smoked and clean. Do whatever seems to be the best. BTW, went smoked the cavities do NOT need to be black. Just a faint bit 'off' of bright shiney aluminum works well for me.

Now crank the pot up till you have about 800*. A full Lee 20 LB pot will need to be set on about '8' for that.

Lean as much of that 6 cav mould into the alloy as possible. The pot isn't wide enough to set the entire base of the blocks in the melt, so kind of angle them down a bit. Maybe halfway to the mill cut for the handle. What's that, a quarter inch deep?

Let it sit there for a good 20 count. Lift it out a bit and if lead is sticking to it put it back in for another 20 count. THAT should do it.

Now put the mould under the spout. If you lift your hand a bit to elevate the end of the mould closest to you, the lead flow will have less tendancy to bounce out of one cavity and into the next before you're ready. The above suggestion is if you're pushing the blocks under the pot to fill vs pulling it out. If you're pulling the blocks toward you while filling, lower your hand.

Fill the cavities. You will have some time to wait as the blocks are about as hot as the lead alloy and it takes a bit of time for the heat to radiate. Wait just a bit longer after the sprue has set up, then strike it over.

What you should have is 6 perfectly cast boolits. Depending upon the alloy you may notice that the surface of the slugs look like electro-galvinization. Like little irregularly angular shaped tiles maybe?

If the boolits are correct, re-fill the mould and cast a comfortable steady pace and you should be getting good boolits every time. If the quality of the boolits fails either caster faster or increase the pot temp (But at 8 it should be fine). Remember too that as the alloy level falls the tempurature will increase.

If the boolits do NOT look perfect from the hot drop, your alloy may be no good. That is assuming the mould IS CLEAN :-)

...................Buckshot

[Ohio Rusty]

I have a hollowpoint pistol mould that is finicky. I can cast great boolets with straight wheel weights with my ladle in other moulds. This mould is picky. I have to hold the ladle about an inch above the mould and pour thru the air into the sprue hole. It seems the force of the lead rushing in like that helps to fill out the hollow nose and the groove areas. If I hold it closer, or right against the hole, all the groove edges are rounded and the hollow end won't fill out. You have to do certain things until you figure out what the mould likes. I tried all the mould smoking and other voo-doo things to make the mould work. This mould likes the Niagra Falls style of pouring to make good boolets. Keep trying different things until you find what works with that particular mould.
Ohio Rusty

[leftiye]

O.R. Maybe check your mold's vents/ventlines. Sounds like when your ladle is against the sprue there might be back pressure slowing down the filling of the cavity. The give away here is the lack of filling of the mold overall when held against the plate. Pouring through the air probably cools the metal and should cast poorer that when held close against the sprue plate. The poorer fillout when held close sounds like the metal is cooler, a slower filling causes this same "cooler" effect.

[Leftoverdj]

Nine times out of ten, lack of fillout is mould contamination. People flatly refuse to believe how persistent the preservative is on Lee moulds.

Boil the blocks in soapy water for at least half an hour, then rinse in hot running water. That works. Many of the "cleaning methods" don't work reliably, and I have run into folks "cleaning" their moulds with stuff that actually contaminates them.

The oft recommended smoking with a wooden match is another bad idea. Most matches are made of pine and some of them are heavily resin laden. That will contaminate a mould badly and baked on resin is a bear to get off. If you must smoke your moulds, use a propane lighter.

[crowbeaner]

I have a couple of moulds that are finicky, and the only way I can get them to fill out properly is to pour with the ladle. Especially guilty is my 255 gr. Lyman 452190. Big nose and small grooves. The mould has to be uber hot and the metal has to be a big stream to fill it out. I must have cast a 3# coffee can just to break it in and figure out what would make it work. I was ready to send it back to Lyman at one point. Check on the letting the zinc float to the top; you have to have a thermometer to do this, or start out on 3 and crack the temp a little at a time until the alloy just melts and then skim. Tin melts around 600, lead about 700 and zinc around 760. Try to get the guy that gave you the alloy tell you what it came from. He could have used babbitt metal for tin, and put zinc in as most babbitt has zinc in it. Hope this helps. CB.

[felix]

CB, most babbits do not have intentional zinc. It would have to be a custom order of some sort. Same with cadmium. When in doubt, like for any reason of doubt, load the pot and put the pot on max. Come back 20 minutes or so. Gently put a stick/rod straight down to see if entirely melted. If not, come back later. If so, gently skim the top of the melt and chunk it into a place that will never be used for crop cultivation. After the top looks mirror clean, then flux throughly. Now add the other elements required, like tin, etc., and then reflux. .... felix