Sad news this evening

[41 mag fan]

Got a call from my father. My first cousin was shot and killed this afternoon over in Missouri. He was from Pacific area.
I guess what happened is he/they were rafting, boating down a river. I guess they landed for something. (details are sketchy, unknown right now).
But the landowner came down raising h*ll or something, and my cousin got out of the boat.
The landowner shot him in the face, killing him.
I don't know all the details, actually no details beyond what I posted.

I would say, knowing my cousin, landowner was raising h*ll about them landing on his property, and my cousin got out to whip his as*.
I believe in the stand you ground laws, but wonder if it could of been avoided.
Wouldn't be surprised if my cousin was drinking either, impairing his judgement.
And if it's the landowners that is in the wrong....I feel for him & his family. He might of just destroyed a lot he don't fully realize yet.

Been trying to google it up, to find out more details, with no luck. If someone gets a wild hair and can maybe think of a version that would bring it up and shoot me a pm with the link, I would be beyond grateful.

Sad day...me and my cousin were the closest out of all our cousins, even though we lived 2 states apart.

[TheCelt]

I am really sorry to hear of your loss and pray that the Lord comforts and keeps you and your family in this sorrowful time.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Really sad news. Your nonjudgmental, open-minded, & fact-searching attitude in spite of your pain is an impressive example of how more people should act / think. You have both my sympathy and respect, sir. I pray the Lord soothes the pain all of you are feeling.

[41 mag fan]

Thank you for the kind words Celt and 10mm.

10mm, I am very angry Frankie was killed, but....in these times, especially after the Zimmerman trial, and the fact i believe in the stand your ground laws, self defense ect ect, it does noone any good to go off half cocked.
I could say or post how I feel, and that's I'm loading up and going hunting to exact revenge, but realistically it does noone any good to do that.

If the real story is the landowner was mad they were on his bank of the river, and Frankie instigated a fight where the landowner felt he need to shoot, well sadly I agree.
But if the landowner and Frankie got into it, and the landowner could of backed off, and not shot and killed him, but he did anyways, then the law needs to prevail on this one.

Now this isn't my first family member to be killed tragically, and I've formed opinions that I've voiced on here, and have had a certain member chastise me for my beliefs. Which i could care less about.

But if it wasn't self defense, the landowners found guilty of murder, then he needs tortured to death.
Just because I called my aunts, Frankies mother, my other aunt answered and I could hear the crying in the background.

BUT...I want facts before I formulate any opinion of what needs to be done. Trying to be level headed is lots better than going off half cocked.

[Cosmiceyes]

I am at a loss as to what to say.I just lift everyone's heart up to God for comfort!In Christ name Amen

[firefly1957]

Sorry for your loss, a name would help in a search i tried google and got one result of a man and one of a women shot in the face i put the same phrase in duckduckgo.com/ and got multiple stories on people shot in the face none on a river .


EDIT there were more posts while i searched

[OnceFired]

So sorry to hear the news. Will extend prayers for your family.

[TXGunNut]

I'm not a big fan of media reporting in cases like this, closest they've come is when they copied my report. If you really want the straight story you'll need a face-to-face with the investigator of the case and the other folks present. You'll have to be calm, civil and professional but you may be able to get the closure your family deserves.
Bottom line, it's a senseless killing and it didn't have to happen. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

[Blacksmith]

41 Mag Fan
This may be the story:
http://www.sullivanjournal.com/news/article_bb883130-f19d-11e2-aae7-001a4bcf6878.html

[MaryB]

Sorry to hear your cousin was killed. Until the full story comes out it doesn't pay to speculate.

[Adam10mm]

My condolences for your loss.

[MtGun44]

Sorry to hear of it. It will be some time before any sort of a coherent story is sorted
out, apparently there were multiple witnesses.

Bill

[RobS]

Thoughts and prayers your direction.

[WILCO]

Thoughts and prayers your direction.

Same here. Stay strong.

[Olevern]

Prayers going up for the survivors.

[41 mag fan]

41 Mag Fan
This may be the story:
http://www.sullivanjournal.com/news/article_bb883130-f19d-11e2-aae7-001a4bcf6878.html

Blacksmith, I believe this was the story of Frankie getting killed.
My mother went to visit my aunt last night, I'll be going this morning.
From the gist of what I get, my cousins wife was there and seen the whole thing, but the landowner had pulled a gun on Frankies friend and threatened to kill him. Frankie pushed the landowners arm away, trying it sounds to avoid a shooting, the landowner then turned and shot Frankie in the face, killing him.

But Loretta, Frankies wife is a basket case, my aunt not much better....and then you got the hillbillies of the family that the more they think on it, the angrier they get.

My father mentioned he thought they were rafting, so I bet this is the story on him. I tried finding something last night and couldn't come up with anything. Thank You my friend for looking and posting this link.

[clintsfolly]

Sorry for your loss. Clint

[41 mag fan]

Well that was the story on my cousins death...and from what my cousins wife says, their friend was in a raft ahead of them and had trouble, so he pulled it to shore. I guess the landowner seen the guy and went down and told him to get off his property or he would kill him. He then proceeded to pull a Glock 9mm and pointed it at the guys chest.
My cousin Frankie, pushed the guys arm away to get the gun out of his friends chest. The landowner from what I understand, then swung around and shot Frankie, the bullet entering in on the right side of Frankies mustache, right below his nose, and lodged into the back of his skull, going thru his brain.
He was dead before he even hit the ground.
The news down there, has it all wrong and loretta has been trying to get ahold of the news to let them know the truth, but can't get thru.
They're saying the victim was throwing rocks and beating the sh*t out of the landowner, so he shot him. Furthest from the truth. There was a total of 6 rafters on the 2 rafts. One of the guys there picked up a rock, in case the landowner decided to start shooting the rest of them.
There was no punches thrown, words were spoken between the landowner and Frankies friend I'm sure, but no reason for lethal force was needed.
Sadly my cousins wife Loretta, and her 20 something yr old son, was standing there when he was killed.

[km101]

I'm sorry for your loss. It is always a tragedy to lose a loved one, and especially in this manner.
Prayers for you and your family.

[s mac]

So sad, hang tough.

[firefly1957]

Let us know if it goes to court i will tag this thread to get updates. (Subscribe to thread)

[Bad Water Bill]

A very tragic story. If I can be of ANY help you have my # so use it 24/7

[xs11jack]

I add my deepest sympathy, I hope everything is resolved carefully and truthfully. God's blessings and comfort on all of your family.
Ole Jack

[hithard]

Sorry to hear of your loss, my prayers and wishes are with you and your family.

I find it hard to beleive anyone would throw rocks at a man with a gun and an attitude.

[Mallard57]

Hi,
I was just curious, here in Washington state the area up to the high water mark is public property, is this the same in Missouri? There always seems to be people who claim ownership even if it's not there's around here.
Jeff
Sorry for your loss.

[searcher4851]

My condolences.

Here's what I found: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/urinating-along-meramec-river-dispute-over-property-rights-led-to/article_a2774d0e-578c-5d01-89e2-d334dbe7c9c3.html

[41 mag fan]

The news medias has the story completely wrong, as far as we know. from the story we have heard, there was 2 rafts, first raft was having trouble, and pulled to shore, waiting on Frankie or Paul as everyone else calls him. That's when the idiot came down raising cane, and put the gun into Lorettas cousins chest. Frankie pushed the gun away from his chest, and the guy then stepped back and shot Frankie.

There's so many stories going around it's ridiculous.
Loretta is in the hospital, under sedation....so how'd they get an interview with her???
I'll be going to MO either in the morning or Wed, I'll then know the real story......
Thanks everyone for your condolences....just really frustrates me....what the media is getting wrong

[mroliver77]

Hang in there and do what you gotta do right now. Wait till you get there and find out the truth. Media will be media. We all feel for you!
J

[Gibbs44]

Sorry to hear about your cousin. Safe travels and prayers to you and your family.

[Lights]

Hang in there bud. Some landowners up here in MN think they own the whole dam riverbead. Which they do not, they only own up to the high water mark. That is if the river at any time during the year is floatable with a small boat, be it canoe, raft whatever.

Man the shooter sure looks like he is an upstanding citizen.:rolleyes:

[Don Purcell]

Shane, sorry to hear of this. Call me if you want. Crocker looks like real loser. Don

[white eagle]

Oh man I am so sorry to hear of this tragedy
I guess you just never know what others are thinking
you will get the truth and this person will fail before the justice system and god
best ..

[jmort]

"Crocker looks like real loser."

Ain't that the truth. He is a stereotype.
What a sad heartbreaking story. From the article, (Thanks for the links) it appears, the "Criminal Justice System" is doing everything right. $650,000 bail tells me they are going after the accused shooter big time. You and your family are in my prayers.

[Dean D.]

I'll be keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. There is no good way to express the sadness and outrage I feel for your cousin's tragic loss of life.

[gandydancer]

sounds like a trigger happl fool. so sorry for your loss.

[Boerrancher]

Crocker looks like the typical dope head meth cooker we have around here. From everything I have read. It looks like this idiot doesn't have a leg to stand on legally. Especially when he tells the cops, "I just shot at the guy closest to me." I am so sorry there are idiots like that out here that give the rest of us hill folk a bad name. My heart goes out to you and your family.

Best wishes

Joe

[Bad Water Bill]

There is a lot more to the killer than is being mentioned.

Bond was set at $650,000+

With all of the pressure to charge G Z his first bond was $250,000.

I think Joe might be right about a meth thing.

Unfortunately that will not bring back the young man or wipe the murder from all of the others that were present that day.

They will probably have night mares for many years to come.

Hang in there Shane and send my condolences and a comforting hug from this old man to the widow. She will need all of them she can get right now.

[gray wolf]

Please forgive me for being late on this.
My prayers for you and the family.
I am heart broken to here this senseless taking of a life. These kinds of things sometimes leave us/me a little short when it comes to what to say.
But from my heart I am sorry for your loss.

[blackthorn]

Really sad news. Your nonjudgmental, open-minded, & fact-searching attitude in spite of your pain is an impressive example of how more people should act / think. You have both my sympathy and respect, sir. I pray the Lord soothes the pain all of you are feeling.

I could not have expressed it better! We are so sorry for your loss!

[Springfield]

And people wonder why I carry a handgun with me when I go backpacking. Even if you mean no harm sometimes you run in to people who think they own the world, especially if they are doing something illegal. Probably what happened here, so sad as they were just out for a day of fun on the water.

[trapper9260]

I just seen this post and sorry for your lost,there is always some out there think they can do what that one done and do not care.and like is stated think they own every thing . Here in IA the land owner has down to the high water mark on a mandering water way . and still no one need to shot just because they feel like to.Sorry to hear. about this .

[grampa243]

praying

[mauser1959]

Sorry 41 mag . I hope that justice is found, no matter what it is . Down around the Washington county area , there are some real died in the rule red necks , and most of the time either drugs or alcohol are involved . Just realize that not all of us good old boys are such dumb asses .

[Char-Gar]

Whatever the reason, cause or circumstances, whenever anyone is killed it leave pain, grief and devastation in it's wake. It is never a good thing and something to avoided, unless there is no other choice. Folks should seek to avoid confrontations that can turn deadly.

I was raised by my Grandfather who was a well known trial lawyer in our part of the world. One day, when I was about 10, I asked him how he could defend murderers. I still remember his words..."Son, always remember that not all killings are murder.". This is very true from a legal standpoint, but all killings do leave very bad consequences for many people after the blood is cleaned up and the deceased put in the ground.

Something to remember, before we get all puffed up and are ready to whip somebody's A##.

[41 mag fan]

Shane, sorry to hear of this. Call me if you want. Crocker looks like real loser. Don

Donnie...this was Bonnies oldest boy, Frankie. Dads sister. Don't know if you know Bonnie though.


Whatever the reason, cause or circumstances, whenever anyone is killed it leave pain, grief and devastation in it's wake. It is never a good thing and something to avoided, unless there is no other choice. Folks should seek to avoid confrontations that can turn deadly.

I was raised by my Grandfather who was a well known trial lawyer in our part of the world. One day, when I was about 10, I asked him how he could defend murderers. I still remember his words..."Son, always remember that not all killings are murder.". This is very true from a legal standpoint, but all killings do leave very bad consequences for many people after the blood is cleaned up and the deceased put in the ground.

Something to remember, before we get all puffed up and are ready to whip somebody's A##.

Not ready to whip anyones as*. Just remember, this incident was murder. Crocker shot someone who was unarmed, and trying to get him to put the gun down. Granted there was probably plenty of expletive words going around, but no picking up a stick, rock or anything by the victim /my cousin.
Which places it squarely on murder.
And to think the medias got about 1/2 of it correct. It started over a guy peeing in a bush so the women wouldn't see him or floaters see him...... we got the full story yesterday. He wasn't destroying property, just draining the lizard, and then they were leaving.

[Gliden07]

Sorry for your loss. Its typical the press is screwing the story up, your lucky the media got it half right! I had an ex girlfriend whose son committed suicide and the stories the local papers spun were unreal!! Hopefully the truth will prevail?


Donnie...this was Bonnies oldest boy, Frankie. Dads sister. Don't know if you know Bonnie though.



Not ready to whip anyones as*. Just remember, this incident was murder. Crocker shot someone who was unarmed, and trying to get him to put the gun down. Granted there was probably plenty of expletive words going around, but no picking up a stick, rock or anything by the victim /my cousin.
Which places it squarely on murder.
And to think the medias got about 1/2 of it correct. It started over a guy peeing in a bush so the women wouldn't see him or floaters see him...... we got the full story yesterday. He wasn't destroying property, just draining the lizard, and then they were leaving.