New Caster, Soon To Be

[Jammersix]

I've decided to take the plunge, and start casting. That decision, me being me, sent me into a tailspin. Since I made it, about three days ago, I've been going back over all the notes I've made about casting, boolits, sources and re-reading the posts here that I've found informative in the past. Since I have no idea what I'm doing, that made things worse.

So I decided to make this post, and ask for suggestions. I'll list my priorities along with the (few) decisions I've made, and then read what you guys think.

Priorities:

Success
Quality
By Hand
Sometime Soon
Many, Many

Success means that I want to be able to actually cast successfully. If one method or piece of equipment is easier to deal with or to learn to deal with, that's probably what I'd rather do. I'd rather have success with an automatic transmission than fight a clutch while I'm learning

Quality means that what I buy needs to be the first and last piece of that type that I buy. It means no Lee equipment, and whatever I buy, if I decide to throw up my hands in despair, never cast again and to sell all my guns, that I need to be able to come here, post an ad, and sell it. I can see people here buying a used Accurate mould. Not so much with a Lee. I've taught many apprentices to be carpenters. (Although I use that term loosely in some cases.) It's much easier to teach a brand new ape to use a tablesaw on a big, powerful 5-HP JET cabinet saw than on a flimsy Craftsman homeowner's saw. I want to learn how to cast, not how to compensate for cheap equipment, or how to build work-arounds for bad design.

By Hand means that I don't want to buy a Magma or Ballisticast machine. Yet.

Sometime Soon is relative. Patience is an old man's weapon. I can wait while a custom mould maker builds my mould, I can wait to accumulate the things I need. On the other hand, it needs to happen while I'm still young enough to get down the stairs. I'd rather wait (and pay) for a top-of-the-line mould than fight a $12.95 special, because I won't know what's wrong with the mould, and I won't know if it's me or the mould.

Many, many means that I shoot a 1911, and the more boolits I can make, the better I'll like it.

Note that cost is not on this list.

Decisions:

For pots, I've narrowed it down to the RCBS bottom cast or the Magma. Although I keep thinking about a dipper, a cast iron pot, a thermometer and a propane burner. Then I get twisted about what kind of dipper, and the whole cycle starts all over again.

For moulds, I'm leaning towards Accurate, because I understand his website, I can order one mould, and he has a great reputation here. My first mould will be a .45 ACP200 gr. SWC, he calls it the 45-200H.

(That brings up a question-- I noticed that a couple of the mould makers here don't appear to offer SWC in .45. Is that me or their website, or do they really not offer this mould?)

Miscellaneous notes:

I shoot SA and RIA 1911 milspecs, in .45 and .38 Super.
I shoot Steel Challenge matches, and more training is better.
I reload on a Dillon SDB.
I will need to buy a single stage press of some sort for sizing and lubing.
My wife will beat me if I buy capital equipment that I have to replace later. We're at the point where we can buy the last one first.

So, if you were going to start over, what mistakes would you avoid, and how would you go about it?

I considered posting this in the member's forum, I intend to pay extra attention to our contributors.

Thanks for your opinion.

[dondiego]

Buy a 10 pound Lee bottom pour and a Lee 2 cav mold.........or single cav........ Cast up a bunch of boolets and learn how to do it

[Jammersix]

Alright, I pulled the trigger.

I ordered an Accurate mold, a 45-200H, four cavity brass. That part's done.

The mold will be the same no matter which system or pot I end up with, so I started with that. And my reading has convinced me that Accurate mold fulfill my quality requirements.

Now back to deciding whether I want a ladle or a bottom pour. :)

[RobS]

Well you have yourself a good solid 1911 mold with the #68. Being a 45 auto guy planning on many, many; I would go with the RCBS bottom pour as RCBS will always take care of you and the pot is a solid unit. As to a single stage press you can do very well with............I know.............a Lee Classic Cast single state press; hell even their classic cast turret is a great press.

[RobS]

Other items:

I would get yourself a hotplate to preheat your molds, it isn't necessary but it sure does make life easier and more consistent. Another item that isn't needed but makes life easier finding consistency is a good thermometer and Rotometals has a good one that is the same as the RCBS one but at a less expensive cost. http://www.rotometals.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=thermometer

[Walter Laich]

I started with Lee 20# pot and went to the RCBS Pro--very nice pot and would get it first if I had to do it again.

I like Lee molds, did 10# of lead in a 6-cav Lee 200 gr .45 TC mold in 30 minutes this afternoon, of course after it had heated up. Lee molds are lighter than brass or steel so my arms and shoulders can hang in there longer (67 years old and 3 rotator cuff surgeries)
Did do a bit of work on molds but took all of 30 minutes and bullets drop out of molds. Having said that RCBS molds are much better out of the box but then again more $$. Your choice.
You can turn out many more bullets with bottom pour
I got a Lyman 4500 to lube and size in one operation. I hear Stars are better but have no experience with them
Good luck--it's a fun addition to you shooting past time.

[Jammersix]

Thanks, Rob, I have a hotplate, I'm not even sure where it came from. I think one of my crews (retired general contractor) picked it up somewhere along the line, or maybe someone left it on a jobsite, and it got loaded and unloaded. But I have one. :)

I've seen Lee cast iron presses, and they may well be the exception to the "no Lee" rule. :)

[Mk42gunner]

I'm curious why you want a single stage press for sizing and lubing. Are you planning on using Lee type sizers and pan or tumble lubing?

I size most of my boolits with an RCBS Lubamatic, and have a couple of Lyman 450's waiting in the wings; but if I only cast for a couple of handgun calibers I believe I would start with a Star.

I would also get an RCBS ladle; that way if you are curious, all you have to do is heat it up and start dipping. The RCBS ladle will hold enogh alloy to fill a four cavity mold of ~200 grains.

Good Luck,

Robert

[Jammersix]

I probably said it wrong. What I meant was I will need some method of sizing-- and I was under the impression that the sizing dies would fit any single stage press.

I see that the Star is the Cadillac, and as such is certainly under consideration. Is the Star actually easier to use well?

You know, you have a point about the ladle-- the cost to try ladling is the ladle. And that's all.

Have any of you guys cast out of a cast iron pot? If I stuck a thermometer in the lead and set it on a propane burner, is that viable, or more trouble in a different way?

[RobS]

The Star lube/sizer is faster once set up but can be trickier with boolits that have multiple lube grooves or different lube groove positions within the same caliber as a person has to plug holes in the sizer die and align the lube holes with the boolits lube grove in conjuction with the timing of the pressurize cylinder of the press stroke. Not all that difficult to do but can be a PITA if you are switching different boolit designs that have different lube groove positions within the same caliber. I have a RCBS Lube-a-Matic two as it is just easier to switch from design to design and caliber to caliber. I have thought about the Star on more than one occasion though and would if I shot a ton of of boolits from a certain caliber like the 9mm, 38 special, 40 S&W, or 45 auto where I didn't change the setup that often.

Regards to a cast iron pot and ladle casting that is something that many have done for countless years and still do..........I'm not one to do this though as I prefer to bottom pour my booits even the heavies. I also think that an electric pot is more economical regards to cost. I do use propane with a turkey fryer base and a home made pot on top to smelt down wheel weights (WW).

[ACrowe25]

I can't help you with suggestions as my budget is VERY limited due to being a young college student. Though my LEE gear produces exceptional boolits every time. A little thinking goes a long way with LEE, but I understand your reasoning to stay away. If I had the funds, maybe I would too! But resell is there, I just sold my lee 45-200 swc (2c) within a couple hours on this forum and had 2 guys in line (sold to buy a 6c :) )

I would recommend some type of lube-sizer combo. Trust me... I too shoot 1911s a lot. Pan lubing all those boolits then cutting them out then sizing is the only part of reloading/casting I HATE. Very tedious process. Get whatever one you want, but just get one.

[fcvan]

I learned to cast from my dad in the mid 1970s using SAECO equipment, pot, molds, lube-sizer. When I got on my own I bought a Lee 10lb pot and 2 cavity Lee molds. I started pan lubing and eventually got a Lyman 450 sizer. Back in the mid 1980s I was casting a minimum 2000 boolits a week and shooting 1000-1250 per week. I was trading 500 boolits for a lb of powder and 500 boolits for 1000 primers. Shooting 'many many' from my 1911 was easy when it was free.

I now have 3 Lee 10 lb pots, 2 in California and 1 in Colorado (I travel back and forth between houses) and dozens of molds. Most of my molds are Lee 2 cavity with a few SAECO and Lyman for boolit styles not offered by Lee. Of late, I've been powder coating and using Lee push through sizing dies.

As far as reloading presses, I have had a RCBS Rock Chucker but almost exclusively use a Lee turret press. I load single stage (one stage at a time) but really enjoy being able to swap calibers by changing the turret plates. I have friends who love their Dillon and Lee progressive presses. I prefer to deprime/size them all, and then load 50 at a time. Sometimes I will prime everything in advance but I will expand and charge with powder 50 and inspect to make sure there is powder in every case. Then I seat and crimp. I have loaded and shot 'many many' over the past 30 years without having felt the need to buy the most expensive equipment. YMMV

[mold maker]

You've already made decisions that preclude what I and many would suggest. Have you read the books like the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual?
Each person has their own likes and dislikes, so asking us to suggest the, "best for you", isn't a reality. What you will get here is our individual recommendations from our individual experience.
I doubt there is a caster here that doesn't own and use some LEE equipment.
Most our purchases were economically determined. Most started on a shoestring, and progressed as the hobby expanded. Some cast for only one gun, while others cast for a whole collection. Some have only one mould and many have as many as 75 or more.
Where you wind up will determine your needs, not just where your at now. Expecting to make every equipment purchase only once isn't realistic, If for no other reason than new stuff coming on the market.
Please keep an open mind and read the stickies, as most every subject has been covered.

[Wayne Smith]

You never told us the limit to your avaliable funds. This is, for most of us, the controling factor. It controls what we buy and how frequently we are able to do so. In most things, the balance between quality, funds, and time is the controling issue.

[pipehand]

Please start casting! You've been a member here since 2008- it's about time you took the plunge!

Good info so far on the #68 clone for the 45. One bit of advice if you get the Magma Star. It's a great machine, and I love mine. If you specify a sizing die, it will normally spit out wheel weight alloy boolits about a half a thousandth undersized. That's because they bore the size dies for the standard commercial Taracorp alloy, which has some springback. Wheel weights, not so much. Just something to keep in mind.

Have you laid in a stock of lead yet? Lead based WW's are going to get scarce in WA.

[Mk42gunner]

I probably said it wrong. What I meant was I will need some method of sizing-- and I was under the impression that the sizing dies would fit any single stage press.

Okay, that is what I thought. I know when I started casting, I had no idea how to size boolits, or that it was even necessary. It took me awhile to find my LAM on ebay, back when you could actually find affordable reloading gear there.

I see that the Star is the Cadillac, and as such is certainly under consideration. Is the Star actually easier to use well?

I do not know, I have never used a Star. I did pass one up at a gun show one time, the asking price was five bucks more than I had in my pocket.

You know, you have a point about the ladle-- the cost to try ladling is the ladle. And that's all.

Have any of you guys cast out of a cast iron pot? If I stuck a thermometer in the lead and set it on a propane burner, is that viable, or more trouble in a different way?

I started with a cast iron pot on top of a Coleman stove. You can cast good boolits that way, but using an insulated electric pot is much, much more comfortable. Since I got my first electric pot, a Lee 4-20, I haven't used a Coleman stove for casting. I currently use an RCBS Promelt and it seems to be okay for ladle casting also.


Hope that answered some questions. I certainly understand buy once, cry once; I just couldn't afford to do it that way when I started.

Robert

[Jammersix]

Sort of-- I still have questions about the Star.

I'm going to cast .452 out of WW or WW + tin, I'm getting in touch with the Captain, here, to get the wheel weight. I'll probably get tin from Rotometal. My reading leads me to think that I want hardness somewhere around 12.

Didn't occur to me that a cast iron pot would be uncomfortable, but as soon as I read your post, I thought "duh..."

So me being me, that option's finished. Comfortable matters more than it did 35 or 40 years ago.

Does the RCBS or the Lyman lube systems undersize wheel weight boolits?

[Cmemiss]

If you are only going to cast HG 68 clones the Star will be half the work once it is set up. All other lubesizers take more steps to size and lube a boolet. With the star you put it in, nose down, and pull the handle, the Lyman heater will work with it and you can make-up a pressurized system if you feel you need it (depends on your lube). If you are into buy once then the RCBS should satisfy your needs from now on. If you don't buy a sizing die from Star if/when you order the unit, then Lathesmith makes good dies at a good price.

[RobS]

Does the RCBS or the Lyman lube systems undersize wheel weight boolits?

Not the RCBS or Lyman dies I've owned (one was larger once) however a person can easily lap one out .001-.002. If you would happen to want a RCBS/Lyman style lube die that isn't offered commercially then there are a few members here who can make you one. Buckshot comes to mind but there are others too.

Regards to Star dies: As mentioned, Lathesmith is a forum member her who makes Star dies that are less expensive and will be spot on when you state your alloy when ordering. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?160-Lathesmith-s-Custom-Dies

[Wayne Smith]

You have been reading since 2008 then you have read many posts about starting. I'm still using a cast iron and old kitchen pots over a gas burner to cast with a ladle after probably 15 years of casting. I cast a few large boolits that work better that way and really have no room to add much else.

Realize that you are getting into this for years and will gradually build up your collection. I'm in on waiting for one group buy now and that's for a friend. Initially I was on two or three at a time. Molds don't wear out if treated well. Buy your basics now and buy quality and you will not be disappointed for very long! You may not have everything you want initially, but that's part of the fun, too.

[Jammersix]

I've decided on Magma equipment. I'm ordering a Masterpot and a Star Lube Sizer. I'll be ordering a die from Lathesmith.

I better see about building a bench. I have some left over granite tile that should work well, although I'm not sure that matters.

[Jammersix]

Die ordered from Lathesmith. (Or rather, I threw myself on his mercy and begged for help ordering a die.)

Wheelweight metal ordered from The Captain.

[Echo]

Smart moves. Kathy treats us right - I've ordered from her, and will again. The Star purchase is wise. I've had one for decades, and have loob/sized thousands of boolits on it, and it's just what you need. There is an example of its use on youtube, and it will convince you! I also have a couple of Lachmiller's (predecesser to the LAM) and use them for GC rifle boolits.
The 68 clone makes sense. VERY few guns balk at it. As close to a standard 45 boolit as there is. I have a group-buy MP 4-banger RNHP that my son swears by - turns out 4 200-gr boolits every 11 seconds, and they function perfectly. You might consider one of those, too.

[Jammersix]

It looks to me like I can't buy Bullplate here anymore. Is that true?

[RobS]

Should be able to buy Bullplate. I think they are back up and going but I believe they use snail mail at the moment. If not randyrat also makes a similar sprue plate lube IIRC.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?141-Bullshop

I believe his current web page which has an email address:
http://bullshop.weebly.com/bullets.html

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?2594-randyrat

[RobS]

Here we go:
For randyrats product page

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?146-ALLEEBEE-S-beeswax-lube-amp-products

He calls sprue plate lube: Zip Lube

[Cherokee]

Jammersix - Welcome to casting! My random thoughts: Magma stuff should be great. Star has a learning curve, but so does everything and its a great machine. Lathesmith does good work. I recommend White Lable lube CR, I use it for all rifle and pistol boolits. A bench would be a good idea, and you want some ventilation for the casting area, and lots of light. Granite tile will resist the heat and drops of lead well, but so will lots of things. The SWC you ordered is about the "Standard" boolit for 45 ACP target shooting & should be fine at .452 in your guns. Bullplate is good, never used Zip Lube. You will want something to collect the cast boolits in as you drop them from the mold - some use a towel. Since I usually cast with two different molds, I built two boxes 6"x12", 4" deep with a folded towel in the bottom to keep them separate. Also easier to pick up and move out of the way when needed. Lots of other things so ask as you have questions and we'll help.

[Jammersix]

Ordered the Masterpot and Star. Good god, they're as much as twenty weeks out! Well, it'll be a good Christmas present.

[Jammersix]

Reading around, making sure I had most of the bases covered, I read a thread somewhere "How Old Is Your Pot?" and it just occurred to me that the age of MY pot is a negative number.

[RobS]

Well it is in the "making"......eventually it will lead way and grow into a big kid so you have someone to play with. :D

[Randy C]

You can always pick up a Lee 10 lb. bottom pour pot use it while you are waiting for the other one, they don't cost much, I did and it is a great little pot no complaints from me.