dumping the pot for a silly gun

[44man]

I am getting stuck casting and loading for a .38 snub nose--Holy smokes, what a toy! :mrgreen: I can't even tell if I am holding the little bitty cases! Anyway I spent an hour today and cast 322 boolits without a single reject, every one is perfect from the Lee 2 cavity. This is the mold I removed the bevel base from and they shoot real good. I dread the thought of lubing them all now. I don't know how all of you deal with these little things! [smilie=1:
The guy was here shooting and I hit right at point of aim with his toy at 25 yd's and a load I worked up for the fixed sights, but he was hitting about 18" high with every load he shot. I told him how to aim but don't know what he is doing considering he dropped the hammer on an empty chamber and the gun dipped down. How can anyone flinch with a .38????
I was shooting my .475 BFR and popped a beer can at 100 yd's from bags and centered my .22 turkey at 50 yd's offhand. He was not impressed but would not shoot my gun, I know he was afraid of it but he was a good bluffer telling me how he used to shoot long range.

[buck1]

Heck I bet you could just tumble lube those monster 38s with the LLA or JPW?? I bet MR. flinches groups err..patterns, wont open up any. Its a shame to waste all your hard work on someone elses jerked shots.

I like to watch some guys at the range who jerk the seventh shot of a six shooter. WOW that spent case still had some recoil left in it! LOL
PS I bet that .475 would have had full recoil , even without shells in it.. ;)

[9.3X62AL]

44--

I would venture a guess that a 2" barrelled 38 Special hitting 18" high at 25 yards equals a shooter sticking up too much front sight into the topstrap "ditch. This is VERY common in night shooting, as the operator "chases" front sight definition in subdued lighting. There could also be an eyesight acuity issue going on here--"needing" more front sight definition due to unclear vision. We typically qualified our deputies at 7/10/15 yards with these little noisemakers.

38 Specials are "itty-bitty"?! You guys with the Mastodon Flattener handguns are just plain spoiled. You haven't lived until you wrassle 32 ACP's and the dinky boolits they require. If the Lyman #313249's @ 800 FPS didn't do such a fine job on small game and vermin, I wouldn't bother--but the little Walther PP shoots them VERY well.

[Duckiller]

If it uses gunpowder someone will flinch. When quite young ie 4th grade or earlier I managed a very consistent flinch from a 22LR. So consistent that at an indoor range (meeting room at VFW, I think) I shot reasonable scores aiming to the left and hit the 10 ring. Years later I shot light loads for trap and skeet. As I have gotten older (Medicare in Dec) my shoulder has toughened up and I can shoot 11.5 gr of 700X behind 170gr boolits in a .30/06.

[Scrounger]

If it uses gunpowder someone will flinch. When quite young ie 4th grade or earlier I managed a very consistent flinch from a 22LR. So consistent that at an indoor range (meeting room at VFW, I think) I shot reasonable scores aiming to the left and hit the 10 ring. Years later I shot light loads for trap and skeet. As I have gotten older (Medicare in Dec) my shoulder has toughened up and I can shoot 11.5 gr of 700X behind 170gr boolits in a .30/06.

How do you kill ducks? Recoil from a 12 gauge duck load has to exceed any .30-30 load...

[armoredman]

38s are little? Well, the 124gr 9mms I cast the other day are smaller....but I love 'em anyway. :D

[MT Gianni]

55 gr 22 cal will challenge any of my fat fingers to add gas checks too. Many times a flinch is developed from noise rather than recoil. Gianni

[44man]

I would have loved to see him pull the trigger on my cannon! :Fire:But I might get sued over a cracked skull.
Only kidding about the small stuff, just been a long time since I handled little rounds. I have two other friends with .357's so most of these boolits are for them too.

[Ricochet]

...my shoulder has toughened up and I can shoot 11.5 gr of 700X behind 170gr boolits in a .30/06.
Man, that's hard core! :mrgreen:

[Phil]

My stepson killed a bad guy with one shot from one of those "little 38's". Went down like a stone, dead when he hit the ground. Don't knock 'em if you ain't used 'em.

Phil

[Ricochet]

Good shot placement!

[Crash_Corrigan]

Phil: During my 20 years of carrying a .38 for the City of NY I shot 5 BG's. Only one fell down. I shot him 6 times from the throat to the pubic mound. The last one just above his johnson hit his pelvis and broke it. Nobody can stand or walk or run with a broken pelvis.

He survived but the round bounced off the pelvis after breaking it and took this joker out of the gene pool. HE is serving life w/o a chance for parole as he killed twp people during the robbery for which I shot him.

We were forced to use a 158 GR LSWC of standard velocity only. I cheated by using handloads with 6 gr of unique. Using a standrd casing and the exact same boolit as provided to me I upped the velocity a ton and later on I ran these rounds through a crono and they all went over 1150 fps. My Smith model 10 handled the rounds ok but they were always a bear to eject.

During a night escapade from a rooftop I fired two rounds at some bg;s on the ground. One hit the perp in the left knee. End of fight.

My cops say that my partner and I put on quite a show from the roof. Charlie, my partner, fired once, bang. I fired once BOOOM. He fired, bang. I fired BOOOOM.

The guys on the ground said that they could barely see the muzzle flash from my partners gun, but that mine threw out a green flame at least 4 feet long and sounded like a 3006. I never did play well with others.

After I retired in 1984 they started to experiment with hollow points, jacketed hollow points and eventually 9 mm, 40, 45's and today they are finally armed with some decent weaponry. The number of officers killed has dropped a ton in the last ten years due to better training and weapons and the perception by the bg's that we shoot, shoot well and carry a lot of ammo.

[Dale53]

Crash;
Thanks, I enjoyed the story! Thumbs up! to all righteous LEO's.

Dale53

[PatMarlin]

44mn- he was probably flinching from the delayed atmospheric pressure of you BFR.. :mrgreen:

[Lloyd Smale]

a flincher will usually shoot low left so if hes 18 inchs high he might want to consider becoming even more scared of it.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Crash,
You sure brought back memories. To give some idea how bad those .38's were, Back when I was still "in the bag", I shot a culprit who was holding up a token booth, through both cheeks with a service load, and he managed to run up the stairs to the street. I had to tackle him, and got blood all over my my uniform getting the cuffs on him. Trying them out down the dumps, and those 158gr. boolets would also bounce off car windshields and side windows if hit on an angle. After the incident, I switched to 11gr. 2400 behind a 170gr. Keith in my M&P., and a stiff load of Bullseye in my off duty. Remember 148gr, hollow base wadcutters loaded backwards?
Morgan

[S.R.Custom]

...We were forced to use a 158 GR LSWC of standard velocity only. I cheated by using handloads with 6 gr of unique ...I never did play well with others.

That would be the most desirable trait in an armed law enforcement officer. A healthy respect for authority... :roll:

[44man]

Well, all of you know about the 5 mile separation between airplanes landing and taking off because of turbulance. My range gets that too! :mrgreen: It might have been raising him off his seat.
I don't know why he hits high because I even drew him a picture of what his sights should look like. He told me he was burying the front sight too. Then I seen the flinch which confused me more. He should have been hitting the ground. He is a big guy too, must go 300#. Only way I can explain it is he must have a real wimp arm and the little thing is raising it.
I know my gun would have cracked his head open! [smilie=1:I also worried about him letting it go so it would fly over his head.

[targetshootr]

I cast a bunch of 175 gr Keiths last week after reading the Pearce article on 38/44s in Handloader, then loaded a bunch of 357s with 6 gr of Universal. For some reason I don't punch the primer out on every one but don't realize it until it's too late. They just aren't worth the trouble to do a change over on the Dillon. But yesterday we shot some factory 400gr 475s at 1350 fps in a friends Stroh Bisley. Now that would be worth loading for if I had one. In the meantime I'll stick with 44s and 45s.

[jonk]

Heck, I reload for the .32 acp and .25 acp. You trying to tell me that a .38 is SMALL? Nah! Not like a .45 for sure but not small! Lol! Nice pile of bullets you have there, btw.

[looseprojectile]

Just cast up a bunch of boolits for the 25 20. 67 gr. gc. and 86 gr. pb.
Never have I dropped so many gas checks and boolits in the mess on the floor.

Aren't too bad once you get the sticky lube on em. I feel your pain.:coffee:

[PatMarlin]

It is a bit of a culture shock to reach for anything smaller when being used to 45cal on up, but if I can cast and lube 22's so can you 44.. :mrgreen:

"What one man can do, another man can do" ....LOL

[scrapcan]

44man,

I just saw this thread sorry for being a late comer. I think your pal is healing the gun anticipating recoil. He is shving his hand into the butt. This will cause what you have described. Make him shoot it a few few times one handed weak handed. I bet it will print where it is supposed to. Let the stupid hand show the smart one what it is supposed to do.

I also agree with the earlier statement about the noise causing a flinch.

[PatMarlin]

On second thought I think the very best advice is to have him shoot your BFR first. Anything after that will feel like a pop gun to him.. LOL -:mrgreen:

[Phil]

Hi Crash,
Good story. My stepson was on a drug bust at a house, guarding the front doorway while he rest of the crew entered the house and went into the rooms and hallways. One of the bad guys ran out of a hallway and popped off a shot at the Kid with a 32 auto. Missed. Kid drilled him dead center in the heart, one shot only. His department mandated 357 revolvers with standard 38 Special ammunition. I can't remember anymore what the ammunition was but it sure did the job. ALWAYS good when the good guys win one. Glad you survived and thank you for your service.

You never really know whats going to happen when you hit a living human or animal with a bullet, I've seen some of the darndest things that made me scratch my head in wonderment. By the Grace of God this punk didn't get another shot at the Kid. Glad you pumped up your ammo, I'd have done the same if I had ever been in your shoes. Don't blame you at all.

Cheers,

Phil

[Old Ironsights]

Buffalo Bore puts out a good 158 LSWCHP if you "must" have "factory" ammo...

OTOH, for some odd reason my 358156HPs look almost identical to the BB loads... I wonder why... :twisted:

[44man]

Well, I went the easy route and used Lee LA but can't see how it works. I put a coat on and let it dry, then sized through the Lee die. It removes all of the lube from the bands and there is almost none in the GG so I lubed them again. I wonder how much lube is left once the boolit enters the throats and starts down the bore. But then, he only has a 2" barrel. (My guns lead badly with the stuff and are not accurate.)
I loaded the whole pile of empties this morning with 4.5 gr's of Unique. That load shot to the sights.
I had tried all the other powders and some shot way right, some shot high. 3.6 gr's of 231 also shot close to the sights as did 5.2 gr's of SR 4756.
I have posted about working loads many times to get shots to the sights with fixed sights, trying to get guys away from the bending sights and turning barrel ideas. You would be surprised what a little change can do with a load hitting where you want.
But seeing how he shoots, it really doesn't matter what I give him. I can't work with him because it takes him over a month to come over and he has to leave too soon. He is a locksmith and also a janitor in the school where my daughter works. She sent him to me. He is not really a friend, just one of those overblown types that thinks he knows guns because he carries one on his hip. As long as I can make a few bucks from him, I don't care how self important he feels.
I still laugh over the fear in his eyes when I asked him to shoot mine! :drinks:
Yeah, I was dropping cases and boolits on the floor, had to be real careful once the powder was in. :-D