.30-40 Improved load data

[texassako]

There is not a lot of data out there for this one, and it is old data and pretty hot. I was using light loads at first with BE and Unique. Now I want to speed it up reliably to the 2000-2100 fps range. I was considering using .30-40 data for H4895, but found out it has the same case capacity as my 7.62x54r cases. They are slightly skinnier and .2" longer. Could I use 7.62x54r cast data? Or just use the .30-40 data even though case capacity has grown.

[Frank46]

First off what firearm are you shooting the 30-40 improved out of?. That will go a long way to any suggestions the members here may make. If in an origional krag I would have to say that it may not be in your best interest safety wise to do so. Frank

[uscra112]

My database says the Russian round is 64 grains of water, the .30-40 is 58 grains. I'd be a little surprised to find that the "improved" case would hold 64 grains, but only you can do that test for us.

The Russian round is rated to 56K psi, but a Krag is only rated to 47K. So using data for the Russian could get you in trouble. If you're working from paper or online tables, start with Krag data. To get 2000 psi with a 200 grain boolit you do not need to crank up the amps - a 36 grain load of 4895 will be a good start point, and it's well under 40k psi. I shoot 18BHN 311299s in my '98 Krag sporter with a 36 grain load of Varget, (when I can get Varget). H4895 is only slightly faster.

[texassako]

First off what firearm are you shooting the 30-40 improved out of?. That will go a long way to any suggestions the members here may make. If in an origional krag I would have to say that it may not be in your best interest safety wise to do so. Frank

It is in a Martini actually. I am not trying to push it into .300 Win Mag territory like Ackley, but rather the opposite. Trying to find published data that keeps pressures low.


My database says the Russian round is 64 grains of water, the .30-40 is 58 grains. I'd be a little surprised to find that the "improved" case would hold 64 grains, but only you can do that test for us.

The Russian round is rated to 56K psi, but a Krag is only rated to 47K. So using data for the Russian could get you in trouble. If you're working from paper or online tables, start with Krag data. To get 2000 psi with a 200 grain boolit you do not need to crank up the amps - a 36 grain load of 4895 will be a good start point, and it's well under 40k psi. I shoot 18BHN 311299s in my '98 Krag sporter with a 36 grain load of Varget, (when I can get Varget). H4895 is only slightly faster.

My R-P .30-40 Improved cases hold 64gr water, and my S&B 7.62x54r holds 64gr as well. I used a fired case with the 7.62x54r since I only have neck sized .30-40 Improved cases(no custom FL die yet). They were measured to the case mouth, and both have the same neck length if I was only supposed to measure to the bottom of the neck. I don't have an unfired R-P .30-40 case to measure the difference.

An example of what I am trying not to do is use a starting load to low, or load something like IMR-4350 to light and get into SEE territory (which it really likes at 42 gr with a 311284).

[Frank46]

I only use IMR 4759 for most of my cast bullet loads. 20 grains will get me approximately 1600 FPS with #314299 in my model 27 Finn moisin. just got a martini carbine in 577/450 but thinking about changing out the bbl for another caliber. Think I have about 4 of them in different sizes. Frank

[Westerner]

Howdy Gents, I shoot a 1895 Winchester lever gun, born in 1896, with a new barrel that I spent a lot of time worrying over what to shoot in her. The metal in the action/bolt I am told is not unlike the steel in rebar. My father used factory equal loads for his 1895 chambered in 30-06 and proceeded to increase the head space to the point it wouldn't always fire when you pulled the trigger. After laboring over loads with small amounts of fast powder and minimum suggested loads using slow powders I settled on 40 grains of IMR 4350 using a 200 grain round nose slug with a gas check. The primers don't print bolt face markings and the powder burns clean at 2000 fps +/-. I understand from reading that the original loading was 40 grains of a slow burning powder under a 220 grain lead bullet. If I do my job with the 10+ lbs. of trigger pull with a little bit of a two stage catch on the sear I get a little more than MOA with iron sights. Teddy R. was right on with his opinion on the 1895, She is a sweet rifle. Larry

[303Guy]

H4350 does not seem to be subject to SEE. Not in the 303 Brit anyway. I've loaded it down to 69% case volume (measured to base of neck i.e. loaded cartridge capacity). Pressure was quite mild and burn was clean with a 204gr paper patched boolit. Capacity is 44gr H4350 (somewhat less than the 30-40 AI).

[texassako]

I always forget threads do not automatically subscribe, but luckily caught this one. One of these days I have got to get a chronograph. It is funny the mention of an 1895 as that is one of my other current reloading project if it ever cools off. Glad to see 303Guy has good luck at about the speed I should be at with a 4350 powder. I had to stop loading rounds since I already have more than I can test in a couple of range days.

[AviatorTroy]

Hi guys, I know this is an old thread but 100 year old cartridges don’t change much so here’s what I have and also would like to hear more data from others out there...

Rifle... Siamese Mauser sporter, beautiful Bishop stock, 30-40 AI chamber, 2 groove Springfield barrel dated 1944

Forming brass, 10gr Unique or up to the shoulder with Trail boss, whatever cast bullet I have laying around. I only ever resize these formed cases with a Hornady .308 neck sizing die. Then I trim to length and anneal. Last forever.

Loads for doing business...
My best loads to date are 47gr IMR 4895 with either a 150gr Nosler ballistic tip at 2700fps or a 165gr Hornady SPBT Interlock at 2600fps. Both loads do less than 2” at 100 yards, with the Nosler slightly better, on a good day with no wind it’s 1.5moa. I feel this powder is slightly too fast for the case dimensions, 47gr is lower than the bottom of the shoulder.

I measured case volume and the AI is very close to 30-06, 7.62x54, 6.5 Swede, 8x57. So I started at .308 loads and worked up.

I would like to work up 165 and 180gr loads with a little slower powder.

The 165gr bullet worked great to fill my mule deer tag last week, so I’m more than happy

[Rich/WIS]

Strongly suggest you send several formed cases to CH for dies, there is some variation in the improved chambers. Per CH they had at least four drawings for improved chambers. I sent in cases and mine were not a match for any they had, but close enough to one called 30/40 Lambert that if I raised the FL die .025 over the shell holder would work to set the shoulder back if needed. Oddly never had to do that, even after 5-6 firings there was not enough case stretching in my Ruger #3 to need FL sizing. Found case capacity was almost identical to 7.62 X 54 Russian. Only negative was the improvement in the case shortened the neck to about 30/06 length rather than the long neck on the original. Found a 30/40 take-off barrel on E-bay and replaced the improved barrel. If you use 308 Win data you will get lower velocity and pressure in the improved case as it has greater volume than the 308 case.

[mehavey]

I want to speed it up reliably to the 2000-2100 fps range.
See
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6595528

You need to think outside the box a bit.....
[smilie=w::bigsmyl2:

[AviatorTroy]

I almost preferred the standard 30/40 to the AI. The longer neck worked better especially with gas checked bullets and the powder capacity was not a limiting factor considering the velocity we keep cast bullets to. I rechambered to AI for several reasons, first my frankenrifle chamber had some really bad machining marks which left the brass in bad shape, so the bigger chamber cleaned that mess up. And I’m not going to beat around the bush, the strength of the Siamese Mauser action was severely underutilized plus I’m a tinkerer so I wanted to see what the rifle is capable of. I’m very far from running any kind of max loads, but it has been a very enjoyable project. Right now I’m approximating.308 performance which in its self is light years ahead of the 30/40 but I know there’s more to be had. As for slower powders I have BLC2 and 4831 on hand, BLC spooks me a little and I don’t like deviating from published loads. 4831 might be a little too slow, but with 180gr bullets it might be OK.

[uscra112]

What is the exact water capacity (in grains weight) of a fired case? The comparisons you listed are imprecise at best. And I have a hard time believing that your AI case is as big as a .30-06.

I doubt you'll get enough 4831 into the case to be of any use. Too slow. BLC-2 is a better bet, but I won't suggest anything until I know the exact capacity of your case.

Let me recommend that you buy a copy of the Quickload software. Not perfect, but far and away superior to the freeware programs that are out there. Every tinkerer should have it, because it will be a rational guide when you start going off the reservation.