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StanDahl
08-17-2005, 02:31 AM
While working up loads in the .357 mag. (Blackhawk), I tried IMR4227 & 2400 with the 358156 and got flattened primers 1 grain below the listed max. with 2400 and 2 grains below listed max with 4227. The alloy was softer than the linotype shown with the loads recommended in the Lyman manual, which could account for the increased pressure. (High velocity isn’t very important, but it is fun sometimes to make the gun go POW! instead of pop.) What kind of powder needs to be used to get full throttle loads and have the brass fall out of the cylinders?? I hear about this but it doesn’t happen in my limited attempts.

I’m thinking of getting a jug of WC820. How would that compare? I’ve heard that WC820 can vary from AA9 to H110. According to the Lyman book, AA9 looks pretty much like the two above, but 110 looks like more potent stuff - faster velocity, same pressure (have I answered my own question yet?). Thanks, Stan

BCB
08-17-2005, 06:13 AM
StanDahl,

Some years back, I purchased an eight-pound keg of WC-820 (lot #47320) that was advertised to be equivalent to H-110. WRONG! It was much faster. As I worked with it, I found it to “be” AA-9 burn rate/powder. I have shot it side by side with same loads of AA#9 and velocities are “identical”. WC-820 burn rate seems to be all over the place as many people on this board have said. But, it is good powder and no matter what the burn rate, you will probably find a use for it in some handgun. Now then to your question. I am using WC-820 with the Lyman 358429 (170+ grains). I am pushing this bullet a bit under 1100 fps. I also use H-110 and I am getting a bit under 1300 fps. These loads are being fired from a 6” Ruger Security-Six, and both produce very good accuracy. I have no problems getting the fired brass from the cylinder with the H-110 load. I don’t think there is any way that I could push the WC-820 powder to the 1300 fps mark without pressure problems. Plus, it would be a compressed load for sure, and I don’t particularly care to compress the ball powders all that much, if any at all. H-110 appears to work best with “heavier than normal” bullets for handgun cartridges—at least that is my thoughts. I also use H-110 for a 320 grain cast in my SRH 44 Magnum, another very good shooter. So, if you want a POW rather than a pop, I suspect that H-110 would be your powder of choice. Although, price may tend to lead you toward the WC-820. Good-luck…BCB

9.3X62AL
08-17-2005, 10:47 AM
This applies more to J-word bullets than to the REAL ones.......but if you're seeking high velocity and pressure coupled with a slower pressure peak, H-110 or its Winchester look-alike WW-296 are selections to try. I had one of the early S&W L-frame Model 586's, and these were known for having rather large firing pin bosses on the recoil shield. Higher-end loads with fast powders would pretty reliably cause primers to flow into the pin boss recess, tying up the gun quite tightly. The proper fix would be to send the gun to S&W for repairs, which I did after a while. In the meantime, I found some WW-296 and used it for the first time in 357 Magnum. Top loads gave impressive velocities, cases pushed free without a problem, and the primer cratering ceased.

I use 2400 for most of my cast boolit work in the 357 (and other) Magnum revolvers, but I do have some "Rated R" loads using WW-296 with both #358156 and #358430 (195 grain RN). I won't share the powder weights, they are pretty irresponsible--but the 358156 reaches 1500+ in my Bisley Blackhawk x 7.5", and the 358430 can get 1350+. These are both 10%+ overloads from factory specs using the Ruger's cylinder length to seat boolits overlength, and cases fall free from the chambers, sometimes needing just a gentle tap from the extractor rod nose to fall free. I MUST stress that these loads ONLY get used in the Ruger B-hawk or Redhawk. They are fun to shoot, for sure--real hand-held thunder, and in the proper desert box-canyon environment they light up adjacent hillsides and set up cool reverberations if conditions are right. THAT is why we have Rugers!

seagiant
08-17-2005, 11:23 AM
Hi Stan,
Thought I'd chime in here. I agree about what's been said about H110. If you want to rev it up that's the powder you want and I think a 8# jug should be on every Magnum shooter's shelf. The downside is that it's not good for when you want to download or be normal for a day! That said one powder I've been impressed with and is economical is the #105 that Jeff Bartlett sales. This is used with AA#5 data and seems very close to Unique. Using this powder and the RCBS 150 gr.SWC I have excellent accuracy in 38 and .357 loadings. This is with my old Ruger SS Police Service Six and I also use it in my RSR .44. Just thought I'd mention this for a "cheaper" way to go over one of the straight commercial powders. Take care.

Willbird
08-17-2005, 12:09 PM
Another Powder worth looking at is Lilgun, in the 357 on paper it provides tip top velocities, with very very low pressures, You literally cannot get enough of it in the case to build pressure(From what you read that is, I have NOT tried pounding it in with a mallet like Cl@rk does)...it must have a very long pressure curve to provide such high velocity at such low pressure.


I have not worked with it enough to see if I am going to get the accuracy I want, but so far it has been very promising.

In 44 magnum Lilgun seems to work out as a bit faster powder as the pressures and velocities are both high.


Bill

StanDahl
08-17-2005, 12:12 PM
Sounds like I need some 110 just for fun, but definitely the WC820 because it's so cheap.

Hey SeaGiant - 105 sounds good for 38 special and others like 32-20 & 32 mag if it's like AA#5, does it meter through the powder measure any better than Unique?

seagiant
08-17-2005, 12:59 PM
Hi Stan,
I can't say really as I haven't used that much Unique lately. I buy powder in 8# jugs and being out of town alot I'm not at the range as much as I'd like. Consequently my powder lasts a while! I can say that I load my 38 spl. on an old Star progressive and have had zero problems with the metering.For my 357 I use a RCBS uni-flow and no problems there either. I think you've come to the same conclusion I did and thats to get both types of powders! The good news is if you cast you're own bullets and save you're brass you come out pretty darn good compared to buying boxes of commercial ammo! So why not? Just my thoughts! Have fun!

seagiant
08-17-2005, 01:20 PM
Try this:http://www.castbullet.com/reload/wc820.htm

mroliver77
08-17-2005, 01:50 PM
Stan,a couple of things come to mind. Are your finished cartridges and your cylinder good and clean? A little bit of bullet lube in the cylinder can cause sticky extraction. What primers are you using? I mostly use the WSP in the 357 and they are always flat after firing.I look at extraction more than anything for pressure signs. I have a newer jug of WC 820 and find it to act a little slower than 2400. I use 2400 or AA#9 loading data and find at the max listed loads is where the 820 burns nice and clean.
For full throttle loads I stick with the 110/296 as it burns a little slower and I believe it is kinder to the boolit. Also we have lots of published dependable "hot" loading data for the h110.
Your Lyman manual has linotype pistol boolit listings? I have a couple or three Lyman manuals and they all list #2 alloy for the 357. Jay

txbirdman
08-17-2005, 10:53 PM
Stan,

Using 2400 powder (14.5 gr) with the 358156 and WWSP primers I got 1330 fps out of my S&W 27 with 6" barrel yesterday. I had been using 296 and was unable to break 1200 fps with published max loads plus .5 gr. There was absolutely no signs of excessive pressure with the 2400 load and if it is accurate this will be the cast bullet load for this revolver. If I had a Blackhawk like you I would probably take it a little higher but at about 620 ft/# of energy I'm satisified at least for now.

StanDahl
08-18-2005, 12:33 AM
Yes, I'm using WSP primers or WSPM with .357. I think I use regular WSP with 2400. They're softer than most?? Maybe that's why I couldn't get more than 12.5 grains of 2400 without flattened primers. I didn't make a note of extraction problems with the flattened primers. I do keep the loaded cases clean, but I might not have wiped any oil out of the cylinder before shooting.

The Lyman 47th and the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook both list linotype for a whole bunch of pistol loadings - 38 sp., .357, 41 mag., 44 special...that's why I bought 700lbs of it! (Well, there must have been a good reason)

Thanks again, Stan