Cast my lead for me!

[Mwsenoj]

I got some lead from a friend who works at a pharmacy. This is good stuff used to carry radioactive medicine for cancer patients (it is a couple of years old and safe now). I'm told it's 100% pure lead. I don't have a way to cast and I don't have the time to learn how to right now since I have a 7 month old baby boy and barely have enough time to reload for the calibers I shoot. I am looking for somebody to cast my lead into 40 caliber bullets in the 180 to 200 grain bullet range. These will be shot in a 40 Smith and Wesson. I had figured that I would split off some of the lead and give it to whoever was willing to cast these for me. I would pay to have the lead shift in a flat rate box and I would pay to have it sent back to me. I don't need the bullets right away, however I would like to have them back in a somewhat reasonable amount of time, maybe a month or two. I have close to 70 pounds of this stuff if I remember correctly. It does have a coat of paint on it. Of course, I would prefer to have an experienced caster. One more detail that may be a point of interest, I am shooting these out of a Glock 22 with a Lonewolf barrel. Also, I have no clue what a fair compensation would be for someone taking on this job so please feel free to suggest in this thread even if you do not intend to cast for me.

Thank you for your consideration, Matt

[Bill Davis]

Wow... Serendipity! I just logged in (after MANY months gone) today, and you sent this! Today no less! LOL!

OK... Well, as a VERY experienced caster, I can recommend a few things. First, do NOT use that lead for your Glock, it is FAR too soft. You need something closer to BHN 21 (or 15 at the least) for that pistol, anything less than BHN 15 is probably going to lead the heck out of it with even target loads. The lead you are describing has a Brinell Hardness of about 5 or 6. That is more muzzleloader/black powder territory, and is actually far more valuable for that use anyway. In fact, you can probably get a little cash for it if you don't mind making a listing on eBay and casting it into some muffin tins, or sending some to your buddies here on Cast Boolits!:bigsmyl2: I may even be interested if we get this thing going again (something I have been STRONGLY considering of late).

I have been considering getting back in the biz lately, but keep backing off at the last moment because I am wavering on whether we want to resume casting or get the dies and start using the swaging press I bolted up. We have made several moves since casting the last bullet batches, and we still have everything, so maybe something can be done if I have a .40 mold... I will have to dig a bit though to be sure. We had something like 125 bullet designs!

Tell you what, let me see what I can find, it may take a few days though. At worst, I will tell you we can't do it, and at best you will have a new source for Boolits and we will be again cranking out hundreds of pounds of lead every week or two! They will have to be cast harder though than the lead you have.

Now, as far as nose design goes, have you a preference? That will give me some idea of what I am looking for (because I THINK the moulds I have in 10 MM/40 S&W are maybe a Lee type SWC or something similar, and potentially a Lyman Devastator mould, but on that one I am unsure even more, though I am positive I have all the other Devastator moulds from the date we closed commercial activity). The SWC would be fine for plinking and targets, but not exactly a defense slug unless I toy with the alloy, and even then I would still STRONGLY suggest a jacketed hollowpoint for defensive use (the right tool for the job, in that caliber anyway).

If you are interested still, I can see what I can get arranged tomorrow (have to be in another town for part of the day, so if not raining, Tuesday (actually today) I can dig around and get all that stuff out of storage.

I am considering getting the swaging dies in for a couple calibers (but not this one, sadly), but not sure yet. I have bolted the press up for use, but have not positively selected die sets to date.

I can probably help, as well, in the lead department, as I may be able to purchase that softer lead from you at a reasonable price (for both of us), even if you go elsewhere for the bullets for some reason. If I get this back going again, we are likely going to also be selling the muzzleloading ball and slugs (where Black Jack Hill Inc got its original start was muzzleloading projectiles, back before we ended up casting 24 hours a day and such). Some soft lead will be beneficial for that and I am unsure how much of it traveled with us from Florida, to Utah, to North Dakota, and finally to our new place in Tennessee. It has been insane, but we really aren't traveling snake oil salesmen, regardless of how that would appear!:killingpc

What are your thoughts?

[jmbrowning]

New here also, but does this thread (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?206488-At-what-point-do-you-need-an-FFL) apply?

[Mwsenoj]

Thanks for the reply Bill! I definitely don't have any expectations of using the lead I have "as is" I know a bit, and I know that I want a harder brinell rating (15-20???). I also have no expectation of using the lead for self defense. I have several thousand Speer HPs that look nasty. They would be used for practice and friendly competition at the local action pistol matches.

[Mwsenoj]

New here also, but does this thread (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?206488-At-what-point-do-you-need-an-FFL) apply?

I make my own ammo. I just need help casting boolits. My "green" guess is that it doesn't apply. Thanks though.

[Bill Davis]

I make my own ammo. I just need help casting boolits. My "green" guess is that it doesn't apply. Thanks though.


I just located that thread myself, not five minutes ago. After I replied to yours in fact, my first read thread here in maybe a year! I am not sure what the rule would be for casting the slugs though, that may have changed. Also back before, if the rule existed it was never an issue, as my local ATF then told me something different that is being said here. It WAS 7 or 10 years ago that I asked though, and at the time we did not have the current administration in office, and nobody really anticipated that such could have happened this way either. I need to figure out what is or is not legal before getting going again, it seems. The laws may have changed. Let us keep in touch though, because if I can legally do it, I am fine with doing so. I just have to determine what rules apply to this sort of thing now, because the waters are entirely strange now. Man, what a PITA this administration is becoming...

[dragon813gt]

Three letters, FFL.

[ku4hx]

my local ATF then told me something different that is being said here.

What was the specific discrepancy?

The way I see it, it's a lot like hand loading itself. Loading is always to be approached with caution ... data in hand and then you work up a load. You can, of course, just jump in and start out at near max or even max loads but that is seldom advised, i.e. a conservative approach is best. In the case of "manufacturing bullets", that same conservative approach is to not test the system. It's not worth the risk to me, however small that risk might be. The gubment may be confused but that bunch of confused guys are the ones that can cause you all sorts of grief until that confusion is cleared up, if it ever is cleared up. And for what? A few boolits and a few bucks?

There are numerous threads on this forum, and others, concerning successful use of commercial cast boolits; I buy some myself from time to time. I much prefer my own, but some work well, most are reasonably priced and many are available today. If you need someone to cast for you, these outfits would be a place to turn to. With at least some I've dealt with, I've requested and gotten custom sizes at no additional cost.

The lead you have has a very long shelf life for when your kid is older and you maybe wish to get into casting.

[dverna]

Bill,

What you can do and what you can do legally are two different animals. Short answer - no, you cannot sell or barter ammo or bullets without an FFL and ITAR. The government has made it impossible for a home caster to run a small business in peace or do it economically. BTW, assume the government is following forums like this and guys who try to skirt the law may get a "friendly" visit. Posting intent on a public forum gives probable cause for a search warrant. Bottom line, it is not worth the risk. If you are lucky, you may escape with fines and the cost of defending yourself - worst case, is a close and special relationship with Bubba behind bars.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I would think someone would cast boolits with your lead, maybe someone local ?
Jon

[Jupiter7]

Sell the lead, buy bullets. It's the only way. Maybe a local commercial caster would strike a deal.

[Mwsenoj]

Wow! I wouldn't have dreamed that this was the case. Green and wrong I am. Thank you guys.

[dbosman]

Mwsenoj, post your city and maybe you'll find a casting buddy locally or reasonably local.

[Mwsenoj]

Mwsenoj, post your city and maybe you'll find a casting buddy locally or reasonably local.

Good idea.

I'm east of San Diego about 1.5 hrs in the Imperial Valley.

[deltaenterprizes]

Those containers are about the same hardness as wheel weight metal, I wag given about 300 lbs of them a while back, they cast nice as is or add a percent or two of tin.

[HATCH]

There is NO law that says I can't GIVE away boolits. The law deals with selling them...
If he provides the lead and that lead is turned into boolits at no cost then I don't see the issue.

i cast 40 cal 180's. They shoot great out of my model 23 (lone wolf barrel) and 22 (stock barrel). I also use them for 10mm as well.

[Jupiter7]

There is NO law that says I can't GIVE away boolits. The law deals with selling them...
If he provides the lead and that lead is turned into boolits at no cost then I don't see the issue.


i cast 40 cal 180's. They shoot great out of my model 23 (lone wolf barrel) and 22 (stock barrel). I also use them for 10mm as well.

The law applies to manufacture and distribution, not profit margin.

[BBQJOE]

Mwsenoj, seriously, a 20 lb lee pot is like 60 bucks. A lee mold is 20 bucks. An hour here, an hour there, and you'll have bullets.
Take the plunge, you've already got the lead. You'll find time. Babies have to sleep ya know.

[Mwsenoj]

Mwsenoj, seriously, a 20 lb lee pot is like 60 bucks. A lee mold is 20 bucks. An hour here, an hour there, and you'll have bullets.
Take the plunge, you've already got the lead. You'll find time. Babies have to sleep ya know.

You are close to convincing me Joe.

I have a question now after looking at moulds. Why are there moulds with different cavities? Wouldn't a guy want to grab a 6 cavity mould and be done with it three times as fast?

[GP100man]

I don`t cast 40s but here`s as good a site as you`ll find on isotope containers & their alloy .

I`ve probably moved, hauled ,smelted & cast probably 20,000# of the stuff.

Some but not all is very close to todays(when ya can find em) wheel weights.

Some ,very little is pure , sheeting shield is pure & most plastic coated is very close .maybe 50 to 1.

http://www.fellingfamily.net/isolead/index.html

[dragon813gt]

I have a question now after looking at moulds. Why are there moulds with different cavities? Wouldn't a guy want to grab a 6 cavity mould and be done with it three times as fast?

That depends. Some don't want to spend the money. And some don't want to deal w/ the weight. I personally have switched to brass molds. And while I don't have an issue w/ the weight. I would not want a six cavity version for a larger caliber bullet. The four cavity blocks produce bullets quick enough. If I really wanted production I would pay for a Master Caster.

[Nickle]

Bill,

What you can do and what you can do legally are two different animals. Short answer - no, you cannot sell or barter ammo or bullets without an FFL and ITAR. The government has made it impossible for a home caster to run a small business in peace or do it economically. BTW, assume the government is following forums like this and guys who try to skirt the law may get a "friendly" visit. Posting intent on a public forum gives probable cause for a search warrant. Bottom line, it is not worth the risk. If you are lucky, you may escape with fines and the cost of defending yourself - worst case, is a close and special relationship with Bubba behind bars.


There is NO law that says I can't GIVE away boolits. The law deals with selling them...
If he provides the lead and that lead is turned into boolits at no cost then I don't see the issue.

i cast 40 cal 180's. They shoot great out of my model 23 (lone wolf barrel) and 22 (stock barrel). I also use them for 10mm as well.

You're both close, but wrong.

You don't need an FFL to sell ammo or components. If you don't believe that, check the license application itself. The ATF will not issue a license to sell ammo. Same applies to components.'

That said, a Type 06 or 07 FFL, along with the associated ATAR registration (it's $2250.00 per year) is required to manufacture and distribute (both, not neither) ammo or components. That includes casting bullets, or any other manufacturing process. You don't need this to manufacture for your own use, as you don't distribute when you do that.

Now, some of you probably figure you can outsmart the government. I don't recommend trying that. They're pretty smart in this area, and most stuff has been tried before. Even if their case is a turkey, they won't back off, and beat you by bankrupting you via legal fees, then getting you to plead out. I'm a qualified paralegal with a high IQ, and I won't defend myself against them, I get a lawyer.

I know, pretty bad news, but I'm just the messenger, and don't want to see good people go to jail over ignorance of the law.

[Randy C]

20 dollars 40$ that's what I told my wife next thing your hooked I've spent close to 8000$ in the last few years.

[Mwsenoj]

I just wanted to stop by and give an update. I just spent about 260 bucks on eBay getting what I think is all the gear I need to start casting my own. Thanks for the encouragement to get started in yet another hobby! I may not have much time to do it right now but, hey, I'm a teacher, I have summers off, a week at Thanksgiving, two weeks at Christmas, and a week for Easter. I should be able to pour my own bullets sometime in there.

I got the Lyman 4500 lube sizer and I have coming a Lee 175 grain truncated cone mold in .401". I'm not sure what profile of top punch I need for the lead bullets. Any clue?

[jcameron996]

If you check the lyman website they have a listing of their various molds with a picture of the bullet and the recommended top punch. I would find one close to the bullet you are using and get the specified top punch. May not be perfect but has worked for me so far. There are also threads on here about making top punch fit using JB Weld. Hope that helps.

[Wayne Smith]

The law applies to manufacture and distribution, not profit margin.
The law applies to those engaged in business, not hobby. The problem is the varying definitions of business.

[dragon813gt]

Hobby is for personal use. Start involving other parties and it could be considered a business. I'm not saying I agree w/ this because I don't. But the last thing you want is a government agency to start investigating you.

[Mwsenoj]

Not to be rude, but I think I have eliminated the discussion of the problem of legality, at least for the purpose of this thread. I merely posted here to notify anyone who might be interested and to ask a follow up as well.

Thank you all for your responses and for taking the time to help a new fella out.

Respectfully,
Matt