Newb Getting started

[clownbear69]

Howdy Folks

I'm a long time shooter with about 4 years of reloading under my belt. I figured Casting is just the next step. Right now it would be casting for my .357 Magnum (Colt Trooper Mk III). I have none of the equipment yet (wife and I have some credit card bills to payoff first so then I can have more fun money) But figured Id start learning and acquiring materials whenever I can. I found my first source of wheel weights (Picking them at the end of the week). Started calling places when everybody started to say how to hoard like no other. It seems the process is simple enough as well as the equipment. Main thing is safety first protect yourself over the investment and squeeze every drop of pure lead you can.

Yet as for anything I do have questions.

I'm confused about sizing. I called up Lee and said before you get a sizer just cast the bullet and make a dummy round. Never read anything like that so do know if that is common practice. If not what size sizer would I need. (I think .358)

When you are melting down WW is there anything you do besides take out the Fe and Zn weights, do you add anything.

I know the best thing is do, but with no mentor kinda hard to do everything when treading in new waters.

None the less I hope you guys can help. Any advice on equipment to or not to get or direct me to places that have that info.

[Cherokee]

Read the "classics & Stickies" at the top of the forum home page. Get the Lyman cast bullet manual, and read. For your specific questions:
1. For 357 mag .358 would be my first choice. Loading a dummy round with the as-cast bullet is not bad, sometimes that works if the as-cast size is not more than .359 or .360. If it chambers, then put some powder/primer in and try a few. If it was me, I'd size them 358 just for uniformity. You want to size the bullets for the chamber throats, see if a .358 size bullet will slip thru the throats as a tight fit; if not, then you may need .357 size.
2. Clip on wheel weights usually have antimony in them and can be used as-is. Stick on wheel weights are usually pure lead and need some alloy mixing for use. Separate the two to keep from diluting the COWW's. I usually add 1% tin to my COWW's but lots of folks don't. The tin will help in mold fill out

I'm sure you'll get some other comments....

[Dan Cash]

Try your bullet as cast = straight from the mould. If, when loaded in a cartridge case, it fits in the chamber/charge holes in your revolver, it may not need any sizing. If it fits, shoot it; results satisfactory, don't worry about sizing. You are more likely to find the as cast bullet too small though Colt's tend to have tighter tolerances than many other hand guns.

Regarding your molten metal, read Glenn Frixell (sp) book on casting (found in the stickies on this site) for an all inclusive guide. Short answer, you may cast with pure wheel weight. The addition of 1 or 2 % tin will probably make the casting easier. The addition of 50% or so pure or mostly pure lead will make a better bullet but wheel weights will work ok on their own.

Check around Gallup, there are other casters in the area for sure.
Best of Luck
Dan

[customcutter]

Here's a link for you.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

[clownbear69]

Here's a link for you.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

I actually Read this book a couple of days ago, Will have to re-read again. Thanks for the link

[dsbock]

Here's a link for you.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

This book is the best advice you are going to get. I printed out a copy to keep on my bedside table. I re-read sections before going to sleep.

Good luck and stay safe.

David

[Buzz64]

All good comments above. I shoot a S&W 66 and it slugs out at 3575 so I go to 358 in a lyman sizer with White Label Red Carnuba lube. Recovered bullets show good groove contact and some lube still in the bullet! I'd suggest you slug the barrel (search will find the how to or utube). If you shoot 'as cast' you still need to lube your boolits so you are going to have to read up on tumble or pan lubing. Starting out is a trade-off between the cost of luber-sizer (and g,h&i dies) and mess of other methods of lube. Your call on which is best for you. I like the consistency of a sized boolit - YMMV.
For smelting WW - think about doing your big time fluxing then making your ingots. Keeps your casting pot much cleaner. I have NEVER had a spout clog and I'm sure it's because I keep it clean by using fluxed ingots and about an oz of tin per 20# of COWW. Here is my before dinner drops from a MiHec 4 cavity (MP 360-640).
7624776248

[dromia]

You really need to slug your barrel and cylinders, until then you won't know what size boolit your firearm needs.

When you have that information along with the size of the boolit your mould drops with your alloy then you will know whether the boolit will need sizing, until then at best your are making educated guesses.

[mdi]

You really need to slug your barrel and cylinders, until then you won't know what size boolit your firearm needs.

When you have that information along with the size of the boolit your mould drops with your alloy then you will know whether the boolit will need sizing, until then at best your are making educated guesses.

Bullet to gun fit is key to shooting accurate, clean bullets. Besides dromia's excellent advise, I'd suggest Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition, if you can still find one as the 3rd is much better than the 4th for new casters.

I started casting with a 2 qt. stainless steel pot, a Coleman single burner stove, a Lee mold, a Lee diper, a slotted spoon, and a bunch of wax for flux (I soon went to sawdust though). I had an almost unlimited supply of wheel weights and uses a muffin pan for ingots. I used plain ww for my alloy and cast and shot a lot of .44 cal. bullets. This set up lasted for a few months of casting and shooting, but with a camp stove temperature was difficult to control (not impossible, just had to constantly adjust the flame) so I went to a 20 lb. bottom pour. 18 years later I still pan lube and tumble lube for all my cast bullets from .38 special wadcutters to hot 357 Magnum 158 SWC bullets to 265 gr. RNFP bullets in my .44 Magnums. I have found no need for a lubersizer 'cause only process 200, or so, bullets at a time.

[Echo]

My suggestion regards loobing - don't discount TL'ing pistol boolits, either with Mule Snot or 45/45/10. My results have always been top notch, even with 357 boolits, at 357 velocities.

[clownbear69]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Hoping to hear more

[Wayne Smith]

When I started casting for my 357's I didn't know about slugging barrel and cylinder mouths. I found that a .358 boolit would fit relatively tight in the cylinder and the a .359 was so tight that I had problems loading them. Still haven't slugged those cylinders. I've been shooting .358" boolits since then with no problem.

In most cases I agree, slugging or other measuring is best. Sometimes it's not necessary or even redundant.

[wv109323]

The nominal diameter of a cast bullet for the .357 Mag. is .358". With that said you may improve your accuracy and leading issues with another diameter. You want the cast boolit to be .001 or .002 larger than your bore. The question is what is your bore diameter. The bore diameter does vary somewhat due to tolerances. If you have loaded commercial cast bullets at .358 they should work with your cast. You could try a few and see if you get acceptable results. There is no need to fix the wagon if it is not broke.
Also I would take one of the as cast bullets and see how it fits into the forcing cone of the cylinder of the pistol. After all the boolit must pass through the forcing cone to get into the barrel. A little oversize of the bullet is O.K.
The smelting of wheel weights is pretty messy. There is a lot of dirt involved. First remove the clips and dirt. I would flux the melted lead at least two or three times. Whatever you use as flux try to stir it down into the molten lead. Pine saw dust or wax are good starters. Make sure the saw dust is 100% dry before using. Getting the lead clean during the smelting will help in casting a "clean" boolit without surface imperfections.
Straight wheel weights can make very good bullets as it is. If you do not get the results you want add some tin. (solder) Tin helps fills out the cavity of the mold. Look for sharp edges.

[clownbear69]

Just to give an update I have recently bought and started to read the Lyman 4th edition. So far it seems to be more of a life experience book about casting instead a casting book that has some life experience in it. So ill look for the 3rd book (kinda hard to find). But Ill be getting safety equipment first before I get the rest of my equipment. (budget sucks) I also got 2 near full bucket (not compressed) of WW all lead (still will check) and should be receiving my mould shortly.

I should also ask. Do you folks prefer one brand over another besides price?

[dbosman]

...
I should also ask. Do you folks prefer one brand over another besides price?

Some do, some don't.
Some can afford to be picky, some can't. +Some inexpensive molds work really well and some expensive molds won't - until they are improved. Your mileage can and probably will vary. There is art involved in casting as well as science.

There are custom mold makers on this forum who make some of the best molds on the market. Expensive, but... for many it's the last mold in that caliber they'll ever purchase.

I suggest you concentrate your early purchases on what is recommended after you post a bit about your gun, target, and budget. People here won't steer you wrong intentionally. Start scrounging lead. A couple of folks have lifetime supplies, but they don't plan on shooting past their 100 birthdays.

My single best purchase was a casting thermometer. No more guessing or estimating.

[Buzz64]

Clown- dbosman hit all the points about molds. Some folks like chevy, some Ford, some Mercedes. Lee molds are fine for the price - lots of links on hear to deal with the occasional problem Lee mold. NOE and Accurate as well as MiHec make the 'up-scale' versions. I'd suggest you get a Lee six-banger in a pistol caliber you use and see how you like it. Eventually, if you keep casting you will get one of the up-scale versions and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. One good reason to go with the up-scale guys is HP options as well as solids from the same mold.

[clownbear69]

Clown- dbosman hit all the points about molds. Some folks like chevy, some Ford, some Mercedes. Lee molds are fine for the price - lots of links on hear to deal with the occasional problem Lee mold. NOE and Accurate as well as MiHec make the 'up-scale' versions. I'd suggest you get a Lee six-banger in a pistol caliber you use and see how you like it. Eventually, if you keep casting you will get one of the up-scale versions and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. One good reason to go with the up-scale guys is HP options as well as solids from the same mold.

Thanks for the advice. I typical go By once cry once but low price wins the battle. I think the biggest question is just on furnace. I have had advice (from another forum) to get a bottom pour. While reading that lymans 4th edition: he stated for quantity get a bottom pour for quality use your dipper. But reading some of the threads on here and else where there seems to be more hate that favorability on Lee and the only reason why people get them is on price and generally "settled" for it.

It seems that casting here is very personal and highly subjective on equipment but every place needs a start? any suggestions there?

[Buzz64]

I have used Lyman and Lee pots. The Lee pro 4-20 is a great pot for the price and dispite all the 'bad press' about dripping I've never experienced it (over 500lbs of ingots through it so far). Key is to smelt in a different pot and use only 'clean' lead in it and then don't drop below about 25% full. If you have the time to wait (and budget) I'd get this; http://www.midwayusa.com/product/267665/lyman-mag-25-digital-melting-furnace-110-volt
I've had one on order since May and they should be in in Sep - Oct. I'll run both so I don't have to sit out the wait for added lead to come up to temp with just one pot. I do use a PID (from Frozone) in my Lee and it has made a difference. As a minimum, get a thermometer - knowing beats guessing every time.
Bottom pour is the only way to go if you shoot more than a box a week. JMHO - YMMV

[clownbear69]

thanks, Well I have plenty of time to wait and within my budget I could easily save for that Lyman furnance. But why that one? Is that an improved version of the one that's on the market. Also for your Lee why is it important to keep more than 1/4th in the pot.

As a side note I picked up my Propane stove from my old home (have to get a new O-ring) but I was thinking on getting an Ingot mold and a Melting Pot just to get a little experience and that way I can keep collecting WW and able to stack deep

[Buzz64]

Yes it is an 'improved' version and 5lb more capacity. It has digital temp control, mold heating area and guide. Read up on it seems they finally listened to casters and incorporated all the 'like to have' in this one. No matter what you get make sure you know your temp - once you get good boolits it is a lot easier to repeat if you know what temp worked last time and just let her heat up to that point then start. Pre-heating the blocks is also key if you want keepers in the first couple casts. I cast for years with thermometer then sprang for the PID - now I have the temps written down for specific molds and configurations (HP) and it is brain dead simple to get good boolits in just a couple throws.
As to the 1/4 full, if you leave some lead in the pot you are less likely to get impurities down to the spout. I do keep the pot stirred with a pine paint stirring stick and since I flux ALOT while making ingots that seems to do fine for me. Take a look earlier in this thread and you can see in my post how the boolits turn out using this procedure.

[dbosman]

As a side note I picked up my Propane stove from my old home (have to get a new O-ring) but I was thinking on getting an Ingot mold and a Melting Pot just to get a little experience and that way I can keep collecting WW and able to stack deep

Your ingot mold will be simple. A "tin" cupcake or muffin pan. Old and metal works. Non stick requires burning off the teflon. Outside. Lead sticks to teflon.
Your melting pot is any inexpensive stainless steel pot from the thrift shop. Vice grips make a great handle if you need to use a stainless steel mixing bowl.

[dbosman]

Keep an eye on your local FreeCycle and Craig's list.
A new in box Lyman 10# pot is on mine for $40.00. I don't want to drive that far or else I'd already own it.
There are a dozen round ball molds for $120 listed currently. You never know what will turn up so don't spend on something just because you finally got to that amount of $.

[Buzz64]

bosman has a point - the rule in casting is 'you can spend as much as you want to'. Will less capacity work? Sure it will. Can you cast with single or double cavity molds? sure you can. Just depends on what you want to accomplish then get the equipment that allows you to do it. Folks who only shoot a couple hundred a month don't need the 'high volume' equipment. You have to read all you can, know what you want to do, then make YOUR decision as to what meets your needs. You can go broke getting all the neatest gadgets - you can also get PIS**d off by having inadequate equipment.

[mold maker]

I started with a commercial refrig wire rack, over a wood fire in a 1/2 qt enameled pot and a serving spoon. That was in the early "60s. You make do with what you have till you can do better. The main thing is to take the dive and get started. After that you will find an unlimited supply of things, that make casting easier, but not necessarily better boolits.

[taco650]

bosman has a point - the rule in casting is 'you can spend as much as you want to'. Will less capacity work? Sure it will. Can you cast with single or double cavity molds? sure you can. Just depends on what you want to accomplish then get the equipment that allows you to do it. Folks who only shoot a couple hundred a month don't need the 'high volume' equipment. You have to read all you can, know what you want to do, then make YOUR decision as to what meets your needs. You can go broke getting all the neatest gadgets - you can also get PIS**d off by having inadequate equipment.

Good advice. I'm new to casting as well so this helps me too. I find myself drooling over those hi-tech bottom pour units but I don't shoot near enough to justify the expense. Thanks for the encouragement!