Seating into the Lands

[oneokie]

New here, have lurked for some time.

Am getting into loading and shooting cast boolits, no casting as of yet.

Is there any hard and fast rules about seating a boolit out to where it engages the rifling and how much to put the boolit into the lands?

[Ricochet]

No, there aren't.

[725]

Just work your load up. Don't start out with a barn burner of a charge.
725

[Lee]

I'll try to directly answer your question, as I understand it, as I have heard, and as I have been told.

You want 0.010" from the boolit to where it engages the lands. The boolit is supposed to get a slight "jump" start before it hits the lands. Seated into the lands can supposedly lead to a pressure spike, since the bullet inertia can't get moving due to being stuck in the lands. YMMV.

There, that outta jump start some responses..........................Lee:wink:

[oneokie]

Now I'm throughly confused.

Even a cast boolit needs to have some "Jump" from the cartridge before it engages the rifling? ? Thought that was for the J word projo's.

[Murphy]

Oneokie,

Welcome to the board from a fellow Okie.

As to your question, some do seat into the lands while others don't. Each gun is an entity unto itself when it comes to cast boolits. I would start out loading to suggested OAL length and work from there, watching for pressure signs as you work towards the lands.

I have only loaded cast for my 30/30 and seating to the rifling wasn't an option.

By the way, 12 miles NORTH of the Red River? May I ask in what part of Oklahoma? I'm about 15 miles from the Red River by highway....less by if you use as the crow flys.

Murphy

[oneokie]

Looking for things to try and see if accuracy can be improved in a 38-55.

Have tried most everything, powders, primers, case length. Am using Meister hard cast boolits, only way they will feed from magazine is to stay way under reccommended OAL.

Do not want to do something dumb if seating into the lands will cause pressure problems. As far as velocity, at this time it is not at the top of the list, accuracy is.

West end of Choctaw County, south of Hwy 70.

[Bass Ackward]

A lot of 38-55s have 38-55itis.

That means a bore that requires a .380 bullet or larger, but a chamber that will only close on a bullet .379 or less. If this is the case and judging by your statement that you have tried many things, my guess is that none are making a lot of difference. So the seating into the lands might help here, but only if the bullet throws more pressure causing the harder bullet to obturate. Not really a good thing. You don't mention your platform type (lever or single shot) but neither one has the caming action to do that without excess wear on the gun especially using hard bullets.

Most times that this situation exists, it takes softer bullets to cure this disease and they will obturate that extra distance at normal pressures. You aren't going that fast with a 38-55 to need hard anyway.

There are only two ways to know if what I am telling you is right though. One is for you to slug which you should do and know anyway. And there are many threads here that you can search for (top bar) that will help you should you need it. The lazy man's way is to beg for some softer bullets from someone and just try those. I prefer one for a long term solution.

[Bret4207]

Welcome! I seat into the lands on some guns. No issues with pressure. I'l with BA on the 38-55, try a softer bullet and do a search on H+R Target rifles. Some of the guys here have gotten them shooting. You mentioned a magazine, so I'm assuming a levergun, but the same issues exist with many 38-55's.

[Pat I.]

I'm using LaserCast .380 diameter bullets in my old 38/55 Winchester 94 with a big bore and tight chamber and have to pull the decapping rod out of the sizing die and run the loaded rounds back in until the lever will just close to get it to chamber. I know it doesn't sound like it should work but it does and it doesn't shoot too bad.

[Maven]

oneokie, As you've read above, there aren't many hard and fast rules for seating CB's into the rifling, particularly given the wide variation in rifle calibers and chamber dimensions. You may want to experiment with a specific CB design and diameter, powder charge, case and primer brand and vary only the seating depth by 0.001" at a time. Start by seating the CB's at the "normal" or unengraved length, note the accuracy and proceed from there. When you find a length that is too difficult to chamber via the lever or bolt ( in lever- and bolt-actions, respectively) or with your thumb in a single-shot, you need to reduce the over-all length (OAL or COL). Btw, it doesn't always follow that CB's seated into the rifling are the most accurate.

[joeb33050]

oneokie, As you've read above, there aren't many hard and fast rules for seating CB's into the rifling, particularly given the wide variation in rifle calibers and chamber dimensions. You may want to experiment with a specific CB design and diameter, powder charge, case and primer brand and vary only the seating depth by 0.001" at a time. Start by seating the CB's at the "normal" or unengraved length, note the accuracy and proceed from there. When you find a length that is too difficult to chamber via the lever or bolt ( in lever- and bolt-actions, respectively) or with your thumb in a single-shot, you need to reduce the over-all length (OAL or COL). Btw, it doesn't always follow that CB's seated into the rifling are the most accurate.

A hunting lever action gun needs cartridges that work through the action. How the bullet fits in the lands comes after that. For target use, there's a lot of agreement that a bore rider or a multi-groove Pope-style or Loverin bullet will shoot best seated as far out as it will go without excessive force required to get the ctg. in the gun. De-bulleting is a consideration only when there is need to remove a ctg. from the gun-not often the case for target shooting. That's what I've seen in my guns, and read. Remember, a breech seated bullet is the most accurate in any gun.
joe brennan

[oneokie]

Have tried everything suggested, except for the soft bullets. Have googled for bullet casters and their wares. Not many soft bullets available. Bullshop is shut down for the winter.

One thing that I haven't tried is to partially resize a .380" bullet to have a .379" shank and keep the .380" dia. on the top driving band and the band above the crimp groove. By doing this and crimping in the top GG, the boolit would engage the rifling by about .030", and part of the boolit would be .0005" larger than groove dia.

Do have access to a chamber reamer that was custom ordered to open up the chambers on the Marlin guns, so that .382" cast boolits could be loaded and the cartridge would chamber.
(last resort) Made a big difference on those particular rifles.

[Jon K]

oneoakie,

I take it that you have a Marlin, a 336? Like others have said, slug the barrel and fit the boolit to the barrel. before you do the reamer thing, try different boolit & different lube. I cast my own, but have tried the Meister, and didn't have much luck with it. Experiment, Experiment, Experiment and keep good data.

Jon
:castmine::coffeecom

[oneokie]

Update;
Partialy sized some boolits so as to leave the top driving band at .380", seated to crimp in top grease groove, lands barely engraving the top driving band.
Same components as my previously most accurate load.
Group-pattern looks like an upside down T.

[Springfield]

I sell soft cast 38-55 bullets intended for Black powder. I also have an H&R Buffalo Classic that will BARELY take .380 bullets if I am real careful with the crimp. I can send you a batch of 25 for 8.00 shipped if you would like to try a softer bullet. Sized to .380 and lubed. Or sized and NOT lubed, your choice. Or just as cast, whatever, I'm easy. You can see a pic of them at www.whyteleatherworks.com , look under accessories. mark@whyteleatherworks.com