Cast Boolit Question please!

[paulsnapp]

I recently purchased an RCBS Lube-A-Matic 2, RCBS .428 sizing die and Pro-Melt furnace. For my first attempt, my cast boolits turned out surprisingly well. But I do have a question that maybe you can help with. I am using Lyman #2 alloy from Rotometals and a Lyman mold for a 200 grain RNFP .44-40 Cowboy boolit, #2660666. My best casting temperature was at 710 F. The boolits came out fine, not dull but nice and shiny. I am using RCBS Pistol lube #80008. When I cycled my boolit through the Lube-A-Matic 2, the boolit sized down from .431 to .428 as expected and the sizer left three shiny smooth bands on the boolit as expected. One between the base of the boolit and the lube ring, a second between the lube ring and the crimp ring and a third just above the crimp ring. My question is about the ring left just above the crimp ring by the sizer. Looking at the boolit from the sides, this ring on some of my boolits is exactly the same width all the way around the boolit and is nice and uniform. On some of my boolits this ring will be very short on one side of the boolit and will increase in height around to the other side of the boolit to a normal height but not uniform all the way around. I don’t think this is possible, but it looks like the boolit did not stay centered in the sizing die as it was pressed down. I am using the correct top punch recommended by Lyman for this boolit, #649. Any thoughts on something I may be doing wrong or is this just a natural occurrence?

[ku4hx]

I doubt your gun will know the difference if the full length of the boolit is sized. The differences you’re seeing are most likely indications of normal as-cast diameter variations.

For boolits with crimping grooves, I prefer to size no higher on the boolit than just below the crimping groove as I want no lube in it.

Cast boolits are seldom completely uniform as to weight, height, diameter and etc. Some variations are more pronounced and apparent than others; sizing makes them more uniform. If your boolit is not "round enough" you'll see variations in sizing as you rotate the boolit. But, if your boolits shoot as you want them too, those variations are of little consequence. Unsized out-of-round boolits are not all that uncommon.

You might want to mic some of your boolit's diameters for roundness before they're sized.

[archmaker]

I have not seen that happen, unless the boolit itself was damaged to begin with. Also, is it just the leading edge of the boolit that is doing this, is this also occuring on the base and other areas?

Also, are you sure that you need to size your bullets down to that size, I understand that the 44-40 is .427 as the standard size, but each gun is different and each manufacture may do things differntly. My 9mm (.355) actually shoots .357 the best, as the bollits are coming out around .358 in size I am only doing a minimal amount of sizing.

Also the Lyman #2 may be a little bit hard for your purpose, I started out years ago with WW and water dropping them and always believed that harder was better, but when shooting lower velocity loads found that not be the case, I now cut my hard lead with pure lead, to soften it up a bit.

Those are just some intial thoughts. I have not seen that problem myself, unless using an old beat up 2nd hand lee mold and didn't get it closed all the way. But the uneven sizing was obvious as it was the length of the Boolit, or tapered and was symeteric (the uneven sizing was related to the mold marry marks, or was on both sides opposite from the marry marks on the boolit).

I don't have 44-40, so maybe someone else will chime in, I just happened to be up early. :)

[44man]

Yeah, the alloy is expensive if you buy it. The 44-40 is OK with cheaper lead and only shooting will find the right mix, however no. 2 is good.
I seen the same things all these years with lube-sizers with alignment problems so I went to Lee dies for about everything. My RCBS top ram was so worn and sloppy I drilled it here and there to take brass screws I could adjust to remove off side play. Seems to be working.
I size almost none at all, most lee dies are cake cutters for me, to remove excess lube, hardly touching lead.
You might not need to size so much for your gun.

[45-70 Chevroner]

As usual maybe I'm not under standing the question. Is the ring apearing after you size them? If so it is the top punch that is making the ring. This is not at all unusual, I have several top punches that will do what you are talking about. There is no problem with shooting them. If you want to fix the problem just use a dremmel tool and grind down (very carefully) the leading inside edge of the top punch until it no longer makes the ring.

[Ford SD]

I recently purchased an RCBS Lube-A-Matic 2, RCBS .428 sizing die and Pro-Melt furnace. For my first attempt, my cast boolits turned out surprisingly well. But I do have a question that maybe you can help with. I am using Lyman #2 alloy from Rotometals and a Lyman mold for a 200 grain RNFP .44-40 Cowboy boolit, #2660666. My best casting temperature was at 710 F. The boolits came out fine, not dull but nice and shiny. I am using RCBS Pistol lube #80008. When I cycled my boolit through the Lube-A-Matic 2, the boolit sized down from .431 to .428 as expected and the sizer left three shiny smooth bands on the boolit as expected. One between the base of the boolit and the lube ring, a second between the lube ring and the crimp ring and a third just above the crimp ring. My question is about the ring left just above the crimp ring by the sizer. Looking at the boolit from the sides, this ring on some of my boolits is exactly the same width all the way around the boolit and is nice and uniform. On some of my boolits this ring will be very short on one side of the boolit and will increase in height around to the other side of the boolit to a normal height but not uniform all the way around. I don’t think this is possible, but it looks like the boolit did not stay centered in the sizing die as it was pressed down. I am using the correct top punch recommended by Lyman for this boolit, #649. Any thoughts on something I may be doing wrong or is this just a natural occurrence?

I think i understand you --the band (is on the bullet) what you have is call them Match bullets (with 3 nice even bands) and practice bullets
but you might not even notice the difference unless you are shooting at longer distances
load 10 of the nice ones and 10 of the match ones and shoot them at a target 150-200 yards and you might get better groups with match ones

When i start casting for the day, I air cool and drop bullets on to a rag (several rags layered) and the first 100 or so pull off and put on the good glasses and check
speeding up will help fill out somtimes.

depending on barrel/bullet fit the uneven ones might (if bad) lead the barrel if bottom band is not filled out

but if you are only shooting at 20-50 yards you probably won't see the difference

[hanover67]

I think your problem is centering the boolit in the sizer die, and the depth to which you seat. You need to be sure the nose of the boolit is properly centered in the top punch. I reach in with my fingers as I slowly lower the top punch and make sure the top punch is meeting the boolit nose evenly all the way around. That should eliminate uneven driving bands.

As far as lube above the driving band, that is the result of having the sizer die plunger adjusted too far down. The threaded shaft under the die should be moved up (turned counter-clockwise) a few turns at a time until lube stops entering the crimp ring. I'm not familiar with .44-40 boolits, but I do reload .32-20's and they have a crimp ring. You have to adjust this depth for each different type of boolit. I usually have it set high and with the first boolit I size, gradually lower it (turn clockwise) until I get lube as high as I want it, then tighten the lock ring.

Hope this helps. I use an RCBS LAM II myself.

[detox]

You may not be closing your mould halves all the way before pouring...some moulds are harder to close than others. This will cause some boolits to be bigger diameter than others. Also the mould halves may not be lined up correctly causing slightly out of round boolits. I have allways had better luck using RCBS moulds...more expensive, but quality is a little better.

Top punch alignment has always been a problem with both the Lyman and RCBS sizing presses. Top punch can be off center as much as .005". I grind the top puch flat (remove formed edge) to help with centering boolit during sizing.

[Mk42gunner]

...My question is about the ring left just above the crimp ring by the sizer. Looking at the boolit from the sides, this ring on some of my boolits is exactly the same width all the way around the boolit and is nice and uniform. On some of my boolits this ring will be very short on one side of the boolit and will increase in height around to the other side of the boolit to a normal height but not uniform all the way around. I don’t think this is possible, but it looks like the boolit did not stay centered in the sizing die as it was pressed down. I am using the correct top punch recommended by Lyman for this boolit, #649. Any thoughts on something I may be doing wrong or is this just a natural occurrence?

It sounds to me like your boolits are being sized cock-eyed, is your top punch locked into the ram solidly? I use a homemade flat nosed punch for much of my sizing with an RCBS Lubamatic, it is also loose in the ram.

In theory, it lets the boolit and top punch kind of float to align everything prior to the boolit entering the sizing die.

Hope this helps,

Robert

[RickinTN]

I have an almost new RCBS machine. I have tried all the tricks and the bullets always enter the size die somewhat crooked. There is something to the "nose first" sizing method. I have gone to Lee push through sizers for all my sizing and use the RCBS machine only for lubing bullets with a die at least .001 oversize, .002 is even better. I've greased the top punch to "float" it and still have problems with bullets entering the die on center. Gas checked bullets are worse than plain based because the resistance of crimping the checks on increases the tendency of the bullet to yaw.

[detox]

I have gone to Lee push through sizers for all my sizing and use the RCBS machine only for lubing bullets with a die at least .001 oversize

What is a good thin lube to use before pushing thru the Lee sizer?

[RickinTN]

I sometimes don't use any lube. If I were to choose one it would be either 45/45/10 or Imperial sizing die wax. The latter probably being first choice.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Tatume]

The bullet is not being pushed in crooked. The amount of variation in the shape of the curved nose of the bullet that will result in what you see happening is incredibly small. You're pushing a curved surface through a cylindrical die and making a cylindrical surface along the side. This **GREATLY** magnifies your ability to see imperfections in the shape of the bullet.

Don't worry about it. If it bothers you, don't size above the crimp groove (or get a semi-wadcutter mold).

Take care, Tom

[44man]

I have trouble with .45 gas checks since they are made large to fit all .45's. They are loose on many boolits and since I lube by hand most times it does not work. I found if I push them through a Lee die upside down to seat the checks, no lube because lead does not touch, they fit the RCBS better and I can lube them there. It reforms the checks too and flattens the bottoms.

[whisler]

I have this exact problem with a Lyman lubrisizer and a .358 size die. Even floating the top punch did no good. I solved it by sizing with a Lee push thru and lubing with the Lyman.

[Cosmiceyes]

I like to read questions,and answers that I know nothing about.This is one,but you have gotten many sound answers.I guess have a SAECO all these years kept me in the dark. I have used the Lee push through helping a friend.It is a nice way to go then he had a pan to stand the boolits in lube.

[Wayne Smith]

What is a good thin lube to use before pushing thru the Lee sizer?

Not really a problem. Even water works!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

What is a good thin lube to use before pushing thru the Lee sizer?

another option is to run a already lubed and sized bullet through the lee die, it leaves a residue that'll lube the next several boolits.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

...On some of my boolits this ring will be very short on one side of the boolit and will increase in height around to the other side of the boolit to a normal height but not uniform all the way around. I don’t think this is possible, but it looks like the boolit did not stay centered in the sizing die as it was pressed down.
I don't think it's the result of the mold, because if it were, I'd suspect that every boolit would do that.

I see this sporadically when sizing in a lubesizer. I believe this is caused by the boolit not being pushed perfectly squarely into the lubesizer die. I don't think it matters for pistol boolits, unless you are doing some long range pistol shooting. If it's noticable in rifle boolits, I generally reject them.
Jon