45-70 woes

[FishingFool]

I'm having difficulties with my 45-70 mold. I'm using 92-6-2 and of the 300 rounds I've casted this weekend only 30 are nearly perfect. The rest have slight imperfections on the surface of the bullet that aren't totally filling out. I'm using a lee 20 lb bottom pour pot with it adjusted as open as it will go. Short of taking a drill bit and opening the spigot up, the only thing I can think of right now is to cast hotter. I have a thermometer and tried up to about 725 deg f. How much hotter can I go without burning it up?

Thanks

[nhrifle]

What mould are you using?

[runfiverun]

yep tell us more about this mold.
I use a lee 2 cavity mold for my 45/70's and run it with about a 5 count before opening.

[FishingFool]

Accurate aluminum 2 cavity mold. I'm doing a 10 count before opening. My wait time after opening is darn near perfect b/c I know I'm just a few seconds shy of getting frosty bullets.

[454PB]

It sounds like you may have some contamination in the mould cavities. Thoroughly degrease and clean.

[FishingFool]

Already tried that. Cleaned with dish soap and boiling water, scrubbed with a little comet and a nylon toothbrush. Rinsed with more hot water. Then degreased the entire setup with acetone. If that don't clean it nothing will.

[Shaky]

Experiment with holding the mold closer/further from the spout as well as holding it at a bit of an angle to get a kind of swirling effect. Sometimes with bigger boolits, your best bet is to go to a ladle.

[MT Chambers]

cast faster, as fast as you can.

[Jailer]

Accurate aluminum 2 cavity mold. I'm doing a 10 count before opening. My wait time after opening is darn near perfect b/c I know I'm just a few seconds shy of getting frosty bullets.

Like you said, darn near perfect but not quite. Don't be afraid of a little frosting, it won't hurt a thing and will likely give you the fill out and consistency you are looking for.

Pick the pace up and you'll be happy with the results.

[Dryball]

I had the same problems with my Lee pot. Went through everything you did. The solution...get rid of the pot or (like me) plug the hole, take out the rod and assembly and pour with a ladle. No problems since doing that. I pre-heat my moulds on a hot plate so as soon as the lead is melted I start casting.

[longbow]

If the above advice doesn't get you sorted out, try using a ladle. I find a ladle works better for me with most large cavities.

Also, your idea of opening up the sprue plate is not a bad one. I have taken to opening up sprue plate holes using a countersink on all my large shotgun slug moulds and any large cavity moulds. It doesn't take much to make a big difference. You have to polish the burr off the bottom of the sprue plate after though or it will gouge an aluminum mould.

Try the ladle though, it may work for you.

Another thought too is to loosen up the sprue plate so it almost falls open on its own. That will help let air vent from underneath.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Longbow

[MtGun44]

Sounds like you think frosting is a problem. Ignore it, sometimes that
is what it takes to get good fill out.

Scrub cavities with toothbrush and Comet to make sure they are totally
clean, and add a bit of tin to your mix.

Bill

[45-70 Chevroner]

I'm having difficulties with my 45-70 mold. I'm using 92-6-2 and of the 300 rounds I've casted this weekend only 30 are nearly perfect. The rest have slight imperfections on the surface of the bullet that aren't totally filling out. I'm using a lee 20 lb bottom pour pot with it adjusted as open as it will go. Short of taking a drill bit and opening the spigot up, the only thing I can think of right now is to cast hotter. I have a thermometer and tried up to about 725 deg f. How much hotter can I go without burning it up?

Thanks

You can't burn it up even if you have it set on high just don't run the pot empty. I cast most of my boolits at 800+. Of course I get a lot of flak for that but that's ok because it works for me.

[44man]

Bring your mold here and I will get 100% perfect boolits, not a single reject.
The bottom pour woes never go away. Get a ladle!

[blikseme300]

I make my own bottom pour pots and have one specifically for the 300+ grain boolits. The opening 3mm and the stream is fast enough to fill the molds at about the same speed as a ladle. With my other pot the spout opening is 2mm and is used for all pistol and rifle molds below 230gn. I have no idea if opening the Lee pot spout will help as opening it might destroy the valve.

[Larry Gibson]

Fishingfool

If the bullets are over 300 gr in weight then you are just not getting the alloy into the mould fast enough. I don't bottom pour 300+ gr weight bullets with my Lyman Mag20 either for the same reason. Just use the Lee pot to melt the alloy and use a good ladle such as the Lyman, RCBS or Rowell. I even drilled out the spout hole on one of my Lyman ladles to get the alloy into the mould cavity faster with 400 - 500 gr bullets. I prefer to use the pour technique as outlined in older Lyman manuals. Others work also but that one is easy to learn and it works.

Larry Gibson

[FishingFool]

Looks like i'm ordering a ladle.

Thanks

[Jailer]

Looks like i'm ordering a ladle.

Thanks

Not needed if you just alter your technique a bit. I pour 400gr and 500gr boolits from my Lee 4-20 without issue.

[454PB]

Me too, I use a Lee Pro-4-20 for casting four different 45/70 boolits from 340 grains to 500 grains.

[quasi]

I have no problem pouring 800 gr. plus boolits from my RCBS pot. Ladle-smadle.

[Larry Gibson]

Lots of good advise on "how to" in those last 3 posts...........very helpful to the OP.........

Larry Gibson

[DLCTEX]

Preheat the mould on a hotplate and cast fast to keep it hot, then slow only if heavy frosting occurs. Light frosting is not bad.

[quasi]

Lots of good advise on "how to" in those last 3 posts...........very helpful to the OP.........

Larry Gibson

My post is meant to correct your " it only works this way" post. There are more than one way to skin a cat, and the sun don't shine out of your ****.:evil:

[Dale in Louisiana]

I cast 405-500 gr. for my .45-70's with a Lee bottom pour. I found problems with wrinkles ande poor definition of the sharp parts of the bullet. I cleaned, I smokes, I recleaned and still had the issues.

I gave up and started casting a little 'hot'. Yes, they're frosted, but they're also well filled out.

I need to try casting them from my recently purchased RCBS pot, but right now it's got a harder alloy in it that I used for .30 caliber stuff.

Dale in Louisiana

[41 mag fan]

Have you tried pressure casting with your mold? I have a 405 and 425gr mold from Accurate for my 45-70. Pressure cast using my BP Lyman furnace, and they come out perfect.

[44man]

Pressure casting is funny. So is pouring fast. So is pouring a lot of lead over the plate.
It is true some make a bottom pour work but commercial pots are different then what we buy. Your BP might suck while another guy has his work. Too many pots just don't work the same.
I am starting to see that individual pots we have is the problem. Had pots cycle so slow lead would freeze before the pot turned back on.
Can our differences in results be due to the pots we have?

[FishingFool]

Ill try the laddle first. If it works then ill play around with enlarging the lee spout. It's just a dart valve so ill have to beg someone to make me a larger dart if I drill it out. If I have time tonight ill fire it up and post some pics.

[Larry Gibson]

My post is meant to correct your " it only works this way" post. There are more than one way to skin a cat, and the sun don't shine out of your ****.:evil:

Wow! You've some real heartburn there. I reread my own post and fail to see where I said anything like; " it only works this way". I offered what works for me. It doesn't do anyone any good, especially to the OP with a question/problem, to simply criticize someone else w/o posting/explaining an alternative method that may work. Not sure where the heartburn comes from because in your own post there is nothing helpful to the OP. Perhaps if you could explain to the OP how you are successful with a bottom pour furnace casting larger bullets I'm sure he and the rest of us would appreciate it. No one is questioning your ability to do so, just asking for help in "how" is all.

Larry Gibson

[quasi]

Larry, perhaps I was a little arseholish in my remarks.

I simply have an RCBS bottom pour and basically use the Bruce B speed casting method, i.e. pot on high and ingots preheating on the top. I think 90% of the problems guys have on here with fillout is caused by to cold of a mould.

[Jupiter7]

All seriousness aside, my taxidermy friend swears there only one right way to skin a cat... :)

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, perhaps I was a little arseholish in my remarks.

I simply have an RCBS bottom pour and basically use the Bruce B speed casting method, i.e. pot on high and ingots preheating on the top. I think 90% of the problems guys have on here with fillout is caused by to cold of a mould.

Thanks, got to admit I've probably not tried that. Will do next time I"m casting some 400 or 500 gr 45-70 bullets. No problem on the other; we all have bad moments occasionally. Glad we're talking.

Larry Gibson

[40-82 hiker]

Not needed if you just alter your technique a bit. I pour 400gr and 500gr boolits from my Lee 4-20 without issue.


+1 I adjust the 4-20s pour rate screw to pour just as fast as my mold can take the stream of lead. 400 grain bullets in .45 and .40. Cast 725 to 750 - problems seems to start cropping up by 700 (lyman thermometer).

[giz189]

Not needed if you just alter your technique a bit. I pour 400gr and 500gr boolits from my Lee 4-20 without issue.
I am with you Jailer. Pour 350 to 500 GRS with my Lee 20 with no problems. Just pour them a bit hotter than smaller caliber. Doesn't matter if they are frosty, won't hurt a thing. If you want them shiny, rub them with a rag when you finish loading them.

[FishingFool]

Woohoooo! Problem solved by pressure casting. I'm now sticking the nozzle right on the sprue plate and letting her rip. as soon as it begins to leak out I drop a bit and let a puddle firm before going to the next cavity. 98% acceptance rate now!

Thanks to all y'all suggestions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[hickfu]

FishingFool, great to hear that pressure casting works for you, I hadnt seen you on the Marlin owners forum to update so I came here just to see if you had found a solution..... Pressure casting never worked in my pot, I had to slow down the stream on my 4 20# pot to get my 535gr's to come out good. When I tried casting with a fast rate I always got bubbles in the boolit.

Doc

[FishingFool]

Thanks Doc. Just in time too b/c my star sizer/luber is shipping this week. Hoping to have 100 lbs casted, sized, and lubed by the end of next month.

[hickfu]

FishingFool, If you have a digital camera can you take some pics of that Star sizer/luber when you get it? I am considering something like that to get away from panlubing.....


Doc

[Lights]

FishingFool, I was also having problems with wrinked boolits from my 5 cavity Accurate mold. I found out I need to heat the sprue plate and keep it hot. Otherwise it was cooling the alloy to muchwhile passing through the sprue plate and this was with a preheated mold. The thick steel sprue plate is harder to warm up than the aluminum.

[Toymaker]

I had to drill out the spout a bit to get a faster flow and fill large bullet molds. Hold the mold up tight against the spout then pull back as you close the spout to get a button. That was for a 525 grain pure lead bullet for a .451 muzzle loader. Got better results for my round balls too. A 535 grain bullet (lead & ww for BHN 8.7) for the 45-70 had a 33% failure rate so I went to a ladle and cut the failure rate to 5%. I run my casting temperature between 725 and 750 degrees. If I start seeing a little frosting on the bullets I open the mold and wave it in the air a couple of times to cool it off some. Don't know why, but it works so I don't care why. I haven't found that a little frosting hurts anything. Take a rag and rub the bullets down some. A sharp edge on the base edge is more important than a little frost.

[mpmarty]

I cast all my 45/70 boolits at high (775-800*) temps and they are mostly single cavity molds. Reject rate is <5%.

[FishingFool]

Yes. My next mold will be a single cavity for a 535 grain bullet. If I'm limited on velocity on plain base bullets to 1600 Fps to avoid leading, I might as well go heavier.

I tried to locate a Rowell laddle but everywhere was sold out. Luckily the pressure cast technique is working out for me.

Thanks to all

[cainttype]

I use both bottom pours and the occasional ladle without problems. I don't use any Lee pots so I can't go there... Have you given any thought to lamenting the mould with aluminum tape to see if it helps venting?