220v melting pot

[gimling]

Ok I ordered a 220V "euro" pot by accident months ago. I put in a "240" jack and hooked it up and it works great, I hit 700degrees and setting 3, my pot pegs at 1000 on my lyman thermometer at 4, at 5 the pot and lead turns red, anyone know where I can get a thermometer to see how hot this thing gets??

[Lloyd Smale]

Probably will work fine. Most homes 240 isnt 240 anyway. Its closer to 230-235. Plus a pot is just a heating coil. Its not a motor that needs to have max voltage to run. It would be no differnt then putting a reostat between the plug and the pot and barely moving the setting. It may draw a 1/2 an amp more current but thats irrelevent.

[fryboy]

we were just discussing this yesterday , the difference iirc in american and foreign 220 isnt the voltage but the hertz ( any electrician can correct me if i'm wrong but ) i think our's is 60 Hz and their's 50 ? that may possibly explain why it's hotter than hades on a low setting ( and maybe just the way to get a furnace to melt it's self if cranked up on high ... or cast zinc if you're so inclined :P
lyman's 220 heater states
""Notes:
Compatible with European voltage and will not work properly when used with American current
Does not have heat control " "
lee just states
"Our 220V melting pots do not ship with a plug on the electric cord. Every country has a unique plug, so you will be responsible for purchasing and attaching a plug."

[Dale in Louisiana]

we were just discussing this yesterday , the difference iirc in american and foreign 220 isnt the voltage but the hertz ( any electrician can correct me if i'm wrong but ) i think our's is 60 Hz and their's 50 ? that may possibly explain why it's hotter than hades on a low setting ( and maybe just the way to get a furnace to melt it's self if cranked up on high ... or cast zinc if you're so inclined :P
lyman's 220 heater states
""Notes:
Compatible with European voltage and will not work properly when used with American current
Does not have heat control " "
lee just states
"Our 220V melting pots do not ship with a plug on the electric cord. Every country has a unique plug, so you will be responsible for purchasing and attaching a plug."

The 'volts', in technical jargon, are "RMS", a fancy term for "we figured out that this is the amount of DC that this AC voltage acts like" so 50 or 60 Hz won't make any appreciable difference on a resistance device like the heating element on a lead pot.

The 'Hz' will make a difference if the device has a little motor, which lead pots don't have, or it has a power supply for a controller, again not likely on a lead pot. In the second case, maybe not, because modern power supplies are not sensitive to line frequency, that 'Hz' number.

dale in Louisiana
(electrical power guy)

[fryboy]

thanks for that !
but that does leave the question of why lyman states it wont work correctly with american 220 ?
i would assume ( hate that ) that the "not working correctly " for the heater ( which much like the lee pot is a resistance based heater ) would also translate to the pot ? would this also figure in as to why gimling's pot gets so much hotter than the 110 version or would that perhaps just be in his pot's controller ( aka thermostat ) ?

[Springfield]

gimling says he doesn't have a thermometer so I'm not sure where he gets his temps from. For what it is worth, I ordered a 220 magma pot and they sent me a 120 by mistake. I used it anyway for 3 years and it worked fine. Using the wiring schematic they gave me and with their advice I rewired it to 240, as they said they use the same heating element in both. Been working fine at 220 for 3 years now, and did not see ANY difference in operation, except now the cord doesn't get warm. Unless you have some sort of electronic thermostat I just don't see a problem plugging a euro 220 pot into American 240. The bi-metal switch in most pots measure temperature, and heat is heat. I also, just for fun, wired in a second heating element in one of my LEE pots, and you know what happened? It gets hotter faster and shuts off sooner. I have probably the only 1200 watt LEE pot in existence. Now the cord on that one DOES get very warm. These are just resistance heaters, it isn't rocket science.

[fryboy]

umm actually he did state he has a lyman thermometer ( altho even on a cooker i haven never seen lead get red hot ...wow )

" my pot pegs at 1000 on my lyman thermometer at 4, at 5 the pot and lead turns red, "

what i'm guessing is that this thermometer goes up to 1000 F

i have seen a empty pot get a slight reddish glow but that abated when i added alloy

[sparkz]

Its a resistive Load it will work fine @ 200 to 250 Volts with out Issue
and is most likely cheaper on the Service bill (Balanced load) and cheaper to wire (less amperage by 50%)
I use a 240V pot also,
I installed a 15Amp 240Volt Recp for it, Like an AC recp.

Retired Electrical Contractor
Patrick

[Gordyf]

Hi all
Just got a Lee 220 volt pot 'cause that's what you can get now.How did you guys wire your's up.
The wires are typical Euro, brown, blue and Gr/yellow.
I see the brown and blue going to the two 110 volt legs (black and red) and the yellow green to ground ,not neutral.

Thoughts???
Thanks and Aloha

[Griz44mag]

is most likely cheaper on the Service bill (Balanced load)
Actually, you pay for the kilowatt hours being consumed, regardless of which leg (or both) they are fed from.

[alfloyd]

"Actually, you pay for the kilowatt hours being consumed, regardless of which leg (or both) they are fed from."

Not so. Your meter measures the current draw to read usage. If you draw 10 amps on one leg it measures it as both legs drawing 10 amps. If you draw 5 amps on both legs then it measures it as a 5 amp draw. So, it is cheaper to use a 220 volt load than a 110 volt load at the same wattage.

Lafaun

[Griz44mag]

Not so. Your meter measures the current draw to read usage. If you draw 10 amps on one leg it measures it as both legs drawing 10 amps. If you draw 5 amps on both legs then it measures it as a 5 amp draw. So, it is cheaper to use a 220 volt load than a 110 volt load at the same wattage.

You have been sniffing too much #9. Every PUC in the country would have a meter company in court in half a heartbeat if they were caught doing that. I worked in a meter calibration lab during part of my trade apprenticeship, and have personally tested single phase 110v, 240v single phase, 208v 3 phase, (3 wire and 4 wire systems), 277 single phase, 240/480v single phase, 277/480v 3 phase, 480v Delta 3 phase and 2400v+ 3 phase systems meters. The test procedure is to test each leg independently, then test the system as a whole with both balanced and unbalanced loads, then test the meter using inductive loading and capacitive loading to test power factoring.

And BTW, I have been a registered Master Electrician since 1978, a trade professional instructor, and a college level building trades instructor. I am also A&B certified as an instrument tech. Your "supposition" of how a meter works is both illogical and unfounded.

Take the time to call your local electricity provider and ask for the meter calibration department. Ask to talk to the lead tech in the shop. Ask him (her?).

Regardless of what voltage you utilize, you pay for KWH consumed, PLUS power factor losses both leading and lagging.

Check your very basic ohms law. P=IxE (Power in watts, Current in amps, voltage) (Assuming 100% resistive loading, no inductance or capacitive influences)

From your statement:
10 amps on one leg, 10a x 120v = 1200 watts x 1 hour = 1.2 KWH
IF it were on 2 legs: 10a x 240v = 2400 watts x 1 hour = 2.4 KWH
Using your flawed logic, it would be twice as expensive to use 240v, not half as expensive.
By the same calc 5 amps on 2 legs: 5a x 240v = 1.2 KWH x 1 hour = 1.2KWH (Same consumed power as 10a on one leg, or 110v)

Go do your homework, and get back with me.

[Dale in Louisiana]

"Actually, you pay for the kilowatt hours being consumed, regardless of which leg (or both) they are fed from."

Not so. Your meter measures the current draw to read usage. If you draw 10 amps on one leg it measures it as both legs drawing 10 amps. If you draw 5 amps on both legs then it measures it as a 5 amp draw. So, it is cheaper to use a 220 volt load than a 110 volt load at the same wattage.

Lafaun

Au contraire!

I've tested a bunch of these things for industrial clients who use them to allocate funds to different units based on power consumption.

1 amp on one leg (to neutral) at 120 volts equals 120 watts. 1 amp on the other leg (to neutral) equals 120 watts. 1 amp from one hot to the other (240 volts) equals 240 watts. All of these presuppose a power factor of 1.0. If the power factor is less, like when you're running the A/C or a washing machine or other inductive load, then the actual measures watts is NOT going to be amps times volts, it will be amps times volts time power factor.

On unbalanced loads, the unit simply sums what it gets from the two legs.

And for those who're interested, testing watthour meters is as exciting as watching paint dry, but at the time it paid really well.

dale in Louisiana
(NETA Level IV certified testing technician - former power system field engineer)

[gimling]

Basicly the pot works great no issues, my question is does anyone know where I can get a thermometer that can read over 1000 degrees? my lyman maxes out at 1000 on the 4 setting on the pot dial. with a max dial setting of 7-8 im curious how hot this thing will get.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Basicly the pot works great no issues, my question is does anyone know where I can get a thermometer that can read over 1000 degrees? my lyman maxes out at 1000 on the 4 setting on the pot dial. with a max dial setting of 7-8 im curious how hot this thing will get.

Turn the light down over your casting bench. At around 930 degrees F. you should be able to see the metal starting to glow red in a darkened room.

I can't think of a reason to get that hot when casting lead boolits.

dale in Louisiana

[Sasquatch-1]

Basicly the pot works great no issues, my question is does anyone know where I can get a thermometer that can read over 1000 degrees? my lyman maxes out at 1000 on the 4 setting on the pot dial. with a max dial setting of 7-8 im curious how hot this thing will get.

A very quick search turned these up.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/EXTECH-Thermocouple-Thermometer-1LYR5?Pid=search

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=199