View Full Version : ML match?

08-15-2005, 07:13 PM
............Ya think we orta have one? Any ML'er, 5 rounds, 50 yards? Or maybe split traditional and in-line? No mailing targets. Just post a photo and give C to C results, or just results if no camera.

Maybe 5 rounds offhand and 5 rounds benched. Anyone interested?


08-15-2005, 08:43 PM
This old blind fart will play.

08-15-2005, 09:44 PM
I'll give it a go if ya promise not to laugh....


08-15-2005, 10:39 PM
I am willing, if you wait until it cools down a bit, my old, fat carcass does not do 95x95 weather too well.

08-16-2005, 12:10 AM
I could probably give it a go, like to keep you guys entertained! Can I wear my glasses?

08-16-2005, 03:31 PM
What's da rools?
Rifle guns? Smoothies? No holds barred?
Sounds like fun:-)

08-16-2005, 08:08 PM
Long Guns and Maybe a C&B Wheel Gun Class?

08-16-2005, 09:49 PM
Sounds like fun. Mel

08-17-2005, 12:26 AM
Yup,Im in too.When ya want to start? Ol Buckshot musta had a good day tuesday with his Parker hale :]

08-17-2005, 02:09 AM
Yup,Im in too.When ya want to start? Ol Buckshot musta had a good day tuesday with his Parker hale :]

...........Ha! I hope to HAVE a good day. Have had'em in the past, but I can screw anything up.

Rools? Uuhhhhhhh, lemme thimpk.

Iron sights only, any style.

Pistols, any style but must load from the front. One cylinder load at 25 yards, or 6 rounds if your peestol don't gotta cylinder. Must be offhand, but you can do one off the bags and bragg. Maybe more then one will do both.

Rifles, 5 rounds offhand and 5 rounds benched at 50 yards. Should we provide a handicap for the smoothbore guys, or do you think we'll get our butts handed to us? If we do, what should it be? Subract an inch or 2 from their group?

Are there enough smoothbore guys to have their own class, so I don't have to sweat getting outshot essentially by a freaking shotgun at 50 yards?[smilie=l:

How about we run it until the end of Sept? You don't have to, but if you don't have a camera you can send your target to me and I'll post a picture.
Just PM for my address. Pictures are better then just numbers IMHO, but this is going to be way simple so you don't have to.

All the above is subject to critique and mo' betta ideas or it can fly the way it is.


jethrow strait
08-17-2005, 06:55 AM
Seems the proper division to me. The rest sounds fine. Inline, wha's that?

A lil toasty for MLs right now, but why not! -------jethrow

08-18-2005, 12:30 PM
Assuming traditional and inline are separated, will there be separate divisions for round ball and conical or is that getting too complicated?

08-18-2005, 04:41 PM
Assuming traditional and inline are separated, will there be separate divisions for round ball and conical or is that getting too complicated?

No seperate division for patched RB or conical. The range is only 50 yards and the conical has no advantage at that distance. If any, the PRB might hold an edge.

The only division in long guns might be rifled vs smoothbore. Generally the rifled bore SHOULD be the more accurate. However someone who is a smooth bore afficianado with a good gun and who has wrung it out could be very competative at 50 yards, especially shooting offhand.

However I'd like to see smoothbore vs smoothbore and rifle vs rifle.

Since this is just for fun, if only one person shot a smoothbore and turned in an excellent group, they'd certainly have some bragging rights. I really don't know much about smoothbored long guns so I don't want to appear to be an idiot, and suggest what a truly great group would be compared to an average one. Either offhand or off the bags. We'll just have to see.


08-18-2005, 07:15 PM
Seems the proper division to me. The rest sounds fine. Inline, wha's that? -------jethrow

Inline - thats where ya gots ta stand to get into this here shoot.

08-18-2005, 07:46 PM
I see a muzzle-loader Burrito Match in the near future, for certain. At least such events will pry that K-38 out of Buckshot's mitts for a while.

jethrow strait
08-18-2005, 11:02 PM
Awright Buckshot, since your doin the legwork, guess I'll jus have to put up with yer Whitworth-serving pontification. But, enough, jus the facts please, that is yer roooooles, and let's go out an have ML fun "inline" in the hunert degree sun!!!------jethrow

08-19-2005, 12:42 PM
Buckshot,the 50 yd smoothie will about twice as big a group as the 50 yd musket as a rule.We use the 50 yd musket/carbine target for 25yd smoothbore. The 100yd for 50.
At our nationals I have seen 1-1.5 in groups at 25yd. 3.5" at 50,offhand. But they sure were not done by me Last time I scored there we had one guy with a 98 3x or4x. He won by a long shot.

El Pistolero
08-24-2005, 07:45 AM
:Fire: Well I guess it's time for me to weigh in on this thread.
Buckshot has been preaching to the faithful Burritistas about this match and now I've finally got the time to shoot so I might as well say "count me in".
Somebody better give him some competition since I probably won't be able to best him. I was watching Buckshot shoot his P/H and I'm wondeing if anyone can best him with all that support and counter balance he's been building up. He was trying to get me to use my artillery carbine but that thing is so off on elvation at 50 yards I might as well point and pray.
Pistol is the only way I might stand a chance of giving anyone some competition. Now if I can only find my stuff. Nothing but dust and cobwebbs on the my shooting bench.
See Ya!

08-27-2005, 08:24 AM
...........Last Tuesday I decided to drag the 2 band P58 Enfield out to the range for a warmup. To be honest had I shot an *** kicking group either offhand or benched it would have been more then a warmup! Off the bench the best I could do was about 5". Four went into 3" but the first shot had been low. The next 3 dropped in on top of each other and the last landed between those 3 and the first shot. This was with the Lee Target Minie' and 45grs Elephant 3Fg.

I wasn't getting any better with those loads so I thought I'd try a heavier one that had been very good. That was the Lyman 575611, 530gr Minie' over 85gr Elephant 2Fg.


It had done this before, and similar. No joy Tuesday. The average for 10 rounds fired into 2 groups would have probably been about 6". I think I need to replace the nipple or something. I spent the remainder of the afternoon potting at the 200 meter plate.

Oh well, there's time.


08-28-2005, 01:10 PM
Buckshot glad you posted that, I tried a couple targets with a traditions inline and the Lee 320, 80 grs Goex 2f. Benched 3" and off hand 5"(quick tape measure read) I plan on trying a couple more with RB out of a CVA percussion, and hope for better. Now if I knew what "TWAIN ERROR" meant, or how to fix it I would post a picture! Computer gremlins?

08-30-2005, 11:37 AM

09-11-2005, 12:11 PM

Lyman GPR .50 cal. .485 RB, .017 pillow ticking patch, thumb pressed and cut at muzzel over 80 gr. of Goex FFg, CCI cap.

Yes, there are five rounds in the bench target, and one obvious hangfire :evil:

09-11-2005, 03:31 PM
I really do need to make time to shoot in this match. Although I can't see well enough to compete with the groups already posted. Guess I'll have to stick to the offhand part, and pray.

09-11-2005, 08:43 PM
Ric, I'll confess to a little trickery here, the square on the target is 3"x3" and gives a flat plane to set nicely on top of the rear sight, with the front sight smack in the middle it's easy to maintain windage.

This gun is my main meat getter, very well used with a great trigger, out of room for hash marks on the toe strap. I believe most people hinder the potential of their guns by trying to shoot too tight a ball/patch combo and loading too hot.

09-15-2005, 07:52 PM
When's the shoot deadline?

I guess I'll pull out my trusty TC Hawken... It's been a looong time.

I just bought a 12ga ML shotgun.

09-16-2005, 01:49 AM
When's the shoot deadline?

I guess I'll pull out my trusty TC Hawken... It's been a looong time.

I just bought a 12ga ML shotgun.

..........Supposed to be the end of the month.

You guys have posted some pretty fancy targets so far. Darn good shooting. If I can get my moderator hat on straight I'll try and have a dedicated thread with just the targets.


09-16-2005, 10:57 AM

Didn't you guys have a shooting meet in Nevada? Will there be a future one?

If it's somewheres not to far south and not exceedingly HOT, I'm comming! ;)

09-16-2005, 08:04 PM
Heck Yes there is a match in Nevada! It just happens to be The Nevada Cast Boolit Shoot! [NCBS] Almost always in the first part of May and as of the past few years in Winnemucca and hosted by the one and only BruceB of speedcasting fame. A most gregarious and generous host,it is my MUST ATTEND out of state annual trek. I dont believe a better time can be had outside of the covers.

09-16-2005, 09:37 PM

Pat, check out the above link. You should be able to rummage around, and find some pictures of previous events.

I have a confession to make here. I started out building a ML pistol a couple months back, and was taking some pictures as I went along, to post here. I still have some more pics to post, but I forgot about doing pics in much of it, so some of the steps won't be included, whenever I get around to posting them. On the up side, I did shoot it for the first time today at ten yards. Mmmmmmm. KCSO sent me a very, VERY good barrel.

09-16-2005, 11:47 PM
Found em' waksupi!

Some good pics there ;-) , but they need some names with the faces.

I gotta look at a map and find Winnemucca. In the 2004... are most of them folks this gang here?

The Cannon in the 2003 pics... was he at the Holiday Inn Gunshow in Redding. Ca. I talked to the guy that owned a rig that looked exactly like that one. Looks like the guy with the longer light hair and beard?

Great gun pics- still looking... :)

09-19-2005, 05:13 AM
............Pat, the annual get together was originated off the old Shooters.com cast boolit forum. I suppose it was because everyone got along so well on the board. Many of the active posters seemed to be geographicly somewhat close together that one of the members (Ammohead) suggested a get together.

The first one was held at Topaz lake Nevada which is smack on the CA-NV line with the hotels and such on the NV side. Due to the lack of real range facilities BruceB invited the event be moved to Winnemucca, NV and so it was and so it has remained so far.

What was very interesting was how well everyone got along. At the first one I don't think anyone knew what the other looked like or even what their real names were, but by that afternoon we'd all hooked up and were having a merry ole time. The first couple were just one day affairs with folks leaving on Sunday. It's now become a Friday morning breakfast meet, Friday afternoon BS session at the BruceB household, Friday night Rooles Committee resturant meeting, Saturday shoot, Saturday night BBQ, Sunday shoot and Sunday evening banquet and awards ceremony.

While the shooting was the main reason for the whole get together, and is still the main event, it has kind of become a family reunion of sorts. For the past couple years when the line was called hot it was a bit of time before the first rounds went downrange. The reason was because everyone was still talking and checking out each other's stuff and just generally BSing, and enjoying seeing each other again.

I think it's one of the reasons for the tone of this board. And it's also why the tone and character of this board is so jealously guarded. Many of us have met and experienced each other personally and the comaraderie is continued here. Not that the older members or the Winnemucca bunch are better or more special then the newest member, but it's that there is a bit of history of being together for these past 8 years (board) and 6 years (Winnemucca).

It's a bunch of fun, regardless.


09-19-2005, 08:43 AM
I think the meets would be great fun, and hope to be able to attend.

I had found this board winter before last, and have already communicated with many other members privately, and have had nothing but the most considerate sincere help when I asked, and value this greatly.

You are right Buckshot, when you say this forum needs to be protected from idiots that have nothing better to do but cause trouble. I've seen it happen at some other website forums of my interests, and they have turned into (for a lack of a better term) crap.

I've done a lot of things in my life, but especially now since we live in the outback mountain forest- hunting, shooting, and fishing has become my main focus for fun and cast boolits require so much study, there's enough to keep myself busy for the years to come.

I appreciate this group.


09-19-2005, 05:13 PM
Having just started working o a load for the .32 flint pistol, I did get a rest group at 25 yards yesterday, that went 2 5/8". 15 gr. 3F Elephant. About as good as I can see, or hold. I'll be tweaking the load some more yet, I believe. I want to try some 4F for the main charge.

09-19-2005, 08:30 PM

Do you do any BP shotgun hunting?

I just had a huge covy of BIG fat quails start to bed down out in the garden. I loaded up my 870, and tried to sneak out but they made me, and took off.. :(

09-20-2005, 12:25 AM
Pat, I used to do a lot of ML smoothbore hunting. When I still lived back east, I had one of the early Navy Arms double barrels, with the real nice English style stock on it. The new ones are real clubs, in comparison. I don't remember what I traded it off for, but I wish I still had it. I now have a 20 bore flint tradegun.
With the old double, I took pheasant, quail, squirrel, rabbit, woodcock, doves, ducks, geese, one fox, and a deer. It was one of the best regulated doubles I have ever shot, and would put two patched round balls very close at one hundred yards. I generally used # 7 1/2, or #6 in it, with great success. More than once, I would be on the back end of one of our farms, and finish out my day with corn or soy beans for the load in it, should I run out of shot. It was still effective to about 17-20 yards, and I killed several rabbits, squirrel, and pheasants with the grain.
With my 20 bore, I have killed grouse, pheasant, pigeons, sandhill cranes, geese, rattlesnakes, jack rabbits and cottontails, dove, and deer. They will definitely do the job.


Here's a few critters taken with various firearms, several with the 20.

09-20-2005, 01:07 AM
Wow.. those are some great pictures. Man- incredable animals. I almost bought a TC Hawken, that had a smooth bore on it- just about .62, and I prolly should have bought it. It may still be available for $250. I've been thinking about it. But I already have a TC Hawken in .50 cal, and I was wondering if it would be worth getting a smoothbore barrel for it. Green Mountain has a blank that will fit- 15/16" flats, .50 cal smoothbore for $134 but then it needs a breech plug and sights, and blued. Might still put one together someday.

Instead I bought a knight TK2000 12 Ga set up so it will use either #11 caps or 209's, plus it has three screw on chokes. I thought this would be a lot more versitile, and I heard the Knights are quality.

Hunting is a new adventure for me, so I'm learning all I can. I've been a shooter and fisherman all my life.

Thanks for the pic link!

09-20-2005, 08:49 AM
Pat, I've never seen a Knight smoothbore, so know nothing about them, except they aren't traditional. I like the old timey ones.
The .62 you were looking at, would be a 20 bore. A 50 smooth bore wouldn't have a lot of versitility, due to a short shot column.
I'd had a 12 bore years ago, and didn't care for it. Patterned ok, but round ball was a bit energetic, recoil wise, to get good accuracy. There are a couple dozen ML smoothbore shooters here, and all shoot the 20. All are flintlock fowler guns. The versitility of the 20 makes it the most efficient, and user friendly.

09-20-2005, 12:23 PM

How does that 20 bore pattern? How bout for quail?

I just found out I can still get the TC Hawken with a .62 smooth bore, for $200 shipped.

What kind of loads do you use for Turkey's with the 20, and what kind of range would be the limmit you would take a shot?

09-20-2005, 03:42 PM
Pat, I get good patterns with 75 gr. 2f, two card wads over the powder, one over the shot. I limit shots on turkey to about twenty yards. I'm aiming for the head, and only need one pellet there, so try to optimize my pattern. I like 7 1/2 for this purpose, as you get the denser pattern, as opposed to larger shot.

09-20-2005, 04:17 PM
Thanks W...

Sorry bout picn' your brain, but do you think that TC Hawken 20 bore for $200 would be a handy rifle and a good deal? It's supposed to be in excellent condition.

They seem to be pretty rare. I've never seen one but it's stamped right on the TC barrel ("Smooth Bore") S.B.... and I'm blown away on the prices of quality muzzleloaders nowadays.

I can try out both, then easily sell one and keep the other I like better.

09-20-2005, 07:36 PM
Well Pat, I'm a bit of a ML snob, but guess I will say that the T/C's have built up a good reputation over the years. I can't see why it wouldn't be a good entry level smoothbore, and I will guarantee that they are fun and effective. I believe that 20 bore T/C must have some rarity, and may turn out to be a good investment.

09-20-2005, 07:55 PM
Muzzleloader Snob? That's a new one. I can picture a SNL (Saturday Night Live) skit on that one.. Hee hee..:mrgreen:

I love those kinda rifles you guys shoot, but they are way out of my price range. Who knows- one day I may want to get one.

Thanks for the input Waksupi, and at least we don't have to sit at the same table.. LOL!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

09-20-2005, 08:13 PM
[QUOTE=PatMarlin]Muzzleloader Snob? That's a new one. I can picture a SNL (Saturday Night Live) skit on that one.. Hee hee..:mrgreen:

SNL could do a neat skit featuring Terry...or was that Pat.....you know, is it a boy or is a girl........what my daughter used to call a shim.....har!

I can see Terry (or was it Pat?) dressed up in a coonskin hat...(you know coonskin, as in RAcoon), moccasins and a flinter in it's hand, knife in the belt and those black horn rim glasses, strutting into the saloon in Moose Jaw or Yellow Knife or Jackson Hole......'gimmie a warm milk...in a dirty glass!....then you biguns line up and little ones pair off!' Of course we'd never know what for.

09-20-2005, 09:52 PM
Fool enough to walk in with a TC front stuffer... that's what for.. :mrgreen:

-and doon't get your hopes up Jumptrap... it's Patrick. [smilie=p:

09-28-2005, 01:53 AM
..............Oaky doke, here's my contribution to the match.

This is benched with the Whitworth. Gotta have a dern flyer in there, of course. Not really at it's best at 50 yards but I wasn't having any more luck shooting at 100 yards so this is it. Load was 75.0gr Swiss 2Fg, felt wad, grease cookie and a 540gr paper patched slug.

This is my offhand target. I shot it today during the Burrito Match. We shoot 10 rounds offhand but hese 5 came in so nice I fired the other 5 on a different target, below. The 2nd 5 weren't as shiny as the 1st 5, but good enough for a 91-2X score!

Rifle was a 58 cal, Parker-Hale P58 Naval Pattern 2 band Enfield. The load was 45grs Elephant 2Fg and a Lee Target Minie.


09-28-2005, 10:09 AM
Nice shootin' Buckshot.

I don't know anything about target shooting cept point and shoot, but why's there 4@ 1 3/4" and 5@ 2 3/8"? ... or how's that measured?

Or does that mean 4 is the first group and 5 was the flyer?

09-30-2005, 02:50 AM
Nice shootin' Buckshot.

I don't know anything about target shooting cept point and shoot, but why's there 4@ 1 3/4" and 5@ 2 3/8"? ... or how's that measured?

Or does that mean 4 is the first group and 5 was the flyer?

It makes me feel better :D! Normally I can do a bit better at 100 yards then 50 yards as the boolit is still kind of yawing around some, but not that day. The force was not with me and I was out of time to enter a target.

But yes, the 4+ is just that 4 of'em came in at that measurement (C to C) and the 5 measurement was all 5 rounds fired.

I was very happy with my first 5 rounds using the 58 cal. But, knowing myself I just knew I would wreak it so chose to fire the other 5 rounds at a new target. As you can see with those 3 low shots, I did screw the pooch so far as group size was concerned.


09-30-2005, 08:58 PM
Well I've got to many Irons in the fire, and didn't even have enough boolits, or a ball mold for my new rifle so I have to pass on the match this time.

[smilie=p: [smilie=p: [smilie=p: [smilie=p: