Give me your recommendations on first pistol caliber lever gun and cast boolits

[Smoke4320]

Have had many years of bolt action and AR competitions/hunting. Now I am venturing into the world of lever guns .. bowing to the stored knowledge here and would value your recommendations on first pistol caliber lever gun and cast boolits for Hunting Deer sized game at 100 yds or less range ..I am an excellent shot so placement is not a real issue..

Thinking 44 mag or 45 LC but open to suggestions

I am not brand concerned as long as it has a track record of being a reliable gun

First.. Must be a affordable gun say approx $500.00-$600.00.. used is fine
Second... Tell me why this choice and the boolit weight and mold

Also thinking 50 % lead 48% COWW and 2% tin for the alloy

Actual experience please not I think this will do.. the absolute last thing I want to do is wound an animal because of poor equipment/boolit choice !!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'd go with a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. They are certainly powerful enough for what you want to do and there is enough information on both here to choke a horse.

You'd probably be best off with a RNFP style of Boolit in the 240-250 gr range. There are literally dozens to choose from. All of them will go completely thru your intended targets leaving a 7/16" or larger hole behind.

Beartooth Bullets makes a WFNGC 250 gr LBT designed Boolit that will work great in your gun. You can buy 100 to try from them and then if you like them, you can buy a mould from LBT.

Randy

[Outpost75]

If for pure recreational shooting, ringing steel and punching paper, it's hard to go wrong with a .38 Special/.357 Magnum.

Brass is plentiful and cheap. And it is less hungry in consumption of powder and lead than a .44 or .45

IF the rifle or revolver will be used for hunting game of whitetail or mule deer size or larger, then by all means get the .44 Magnum. While the .45 Colt can be loaded to good potential, .44 Magnum is more versatile and better factory loads are available, if that is important.

[358 Win]

I bought a new first year (1979) Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum. One of the best purchases I have ever made. I also bought a used 1999 1894CBL, 24" full octogon cowboy rifle. The 1894C is microgrooved rifled and the 1894CBL is ballard rifled. Both shoot exceptionally well with all manner of my cast boolets from 158, 165, 173, 180, and 215gr. If there is anything more fun than casting and shooting these two firearms, God kept it for Himself!! I can't begin to tell you how many cast rounds went down their barrels but it has to be in the tens of thousands. I've never killed a deer with either but I have killed three with my 6" inch Ruger Security Six.
The favorite load in the 1894C is the Lyman 358156 boolit at 165gr fully dressed @ 1800fps with ACC#9 powder. The 1894CBL likes the Ranch Dog 359-175 boolit at 180gr fully dressed @ 1638fps pushed by Alliant 2400 powder. If I can't kill a deer within 100 yards with either load, I'm gonna stay home and play yahtzee with the wife. My walk about loads are not full power loads, but rather the plain based Lyman 358429 at 173gr and pushed along @ 1450fps again with Alliant 2400 powder in .38 Special cases. There is unlimited potential as to what can be done with either rifle shooting both cast and jacketed. As a side note, my favorite handgun is my S&W Model 19-4 from 1980. It just so happens that it's favorite load is the same load the 1894C likes. The Lyman 358156 165gr SWC pushed by ACC#9. The velocity from the 4" S&W 19-4 is still a stout 1358fps with supreme accuracy. Just seems to be much more available loads for the .357 Magnum, but then again I'm biased due to the fun I've had. I have a single shot H&R .44 Magnum that has never seen a jacketed bullet, only my 429421 250gr SWC Cast @ 1700fps from it's 24" barrel. That H&R is a switch barrel affair with a 20 gauge shotgun barrel also. That combo ranks a high second in the fun factor also. There's no wrong decision to be made by you Smoke4320, just search your heart for what seems the best for your needs.
358 Win

[starmac]

45/70, while not actually a pistol cartridge there are pistols chambered for it. lol

[Smoke4320]

45/70, while not actually a pistol cartridge there are pistols chambered for it. lol
yes I have one .. TC with 14" barrel .. Its always a head turner when I pull it out to shoot
Guys Thanks for all the answers .. please keep them coming

[1Shirt]

It would be pretty hard to beat a 357 in a Sing 6 Ruger, and a Marlin w/a longer bbl.
1Shirt!

[Pb2au]

Rossi M92.
They available in 44mag, 45 colt, 357/38, and 454 Casull.
Huge amount of value at the price. Very strong action. Barrel quality is very good.
My results so far with mine have been very good. As for load info, do the old search here in the lever guns section and you will have enough reading to keep you busy for a bit.
I am in the same boat as I am developing hunting loads for mine right now. (45 Colt, 24" barrel). My results using a 255grn semi wadcutter with Unique have been good. However under the advice of some of the members I am starting work Alliant 2400.

[starmac]

yes I have one .. TC with 14" barrel .. Its always a head turner when I pull it out to shoot
Guys Thanks for all the answers .. please keep them coming

I was thinking more along the lines of the bfr (on my wish list). My neighbor LADY has one. I keep telling her it is waaaaay too big for her, so she should make me a deal on it, but so far no go. lol

[SCOTT ARTHUR]

Marlin 1894 in .44 mag, Simmons 4x32 shotgun scope, RD 432 - 265, 50/50 COWW/ SOWW sized .432, stiff dose of 2400 & CCI primer. Son went 4 for 4 last year, no tracking required. All 30 to 80yd. shots.

Scott

[dbosman]

For deer in pistol caliber - Minimum .357 mag - otherwise .44 mag. Actually anything over .40.
While you can practice with the .38 special or the .44 special, neither magnum load is hard on my shoulder.

[dragon813gt]

A 357 is perfectly fine out to 100 yards. I have a 1894C that I take w/ me every time I go shooting. It's a new production made by Remington but everything is perfect on it. I won't lie and tell you it was easy finding one. It took six months but it was worth the wait. This was over a year ago and the reports of bad ones has dropped drastically. They seem to have figured out how to produce a quality rifle.

I have not taken any game with it yet, even though I spent a week looking for them ;)
I worked up a load for a MP 360640. It drops a 170 grain solid and pushed by H110 it should smack one down w/ no problems. I hope to have an actual report of success this year. I like the 357 so much that I went out and bought a S&W 586-6 as a companion sidearm. Both are extremely fun to shoot. The 586 is new production as well.

This thread needs pics to make it easier for you to decide :beer:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/7DD280AF-E3B9-4D85-90DB-BDC72A685BFA-2609-000001932A05D742.jpg

[Groo]

Groo here
If you can find a 357 go for it , After that a 44 mag, I might steer clear of the 45 colt just because of the smaller rim...
BUT ALWAYS,ALWAYS,ALWAYS if you find a 41mag? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gon2shoot]

I have several cals., my go to gun is the 45 colt. The modern 92 action is strong enough to push them up to very usefull pressures. Most modern guns will do fine , I just happen to like the 92, and the 45 for the ability to fling heavy lead boolits.

[DougGuy]

If you intend to handload for it, then there really isn't a whole lot of difference in the .44 magnum and .45 Colt, the edge does go to the .45 Colt because of it's ability to shoot heavier boolits. The cost handloading is about the same for either one. Factory ammo would be more readily available for the .44 magnum. It may be that a .44 caliber boolit might be a tad more accurate out at the long end of the rifle's range, but even then that won't be much.

[pietro]

.

I've used a .45 Colt levergun very effectively on Whitetail, and like the Rossi M92's Ballard-style rifling best for boolits. Their only drawback is any levergun's feeding/cycling can be problematic with sharp-shouldered boolits catching on whatever.

I use a receiver peep sight; but like a Marlin 1894 better for scope usage - which might be a "must" for some shooters - so, YMMV, there.



.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have a lot of fun with my Marlin 1894 rifle in .357 Magnum. I push a 180 grain cast boolit or Remington 180 grain HP bullet to 1600 fps out of its 26" barrel. I enjoy close to 2 MOA accuracy out to 200 yards with it. A Lyman 66 aperture sight on it and a blade front sight in a Lyman 17a front globe sight make it quite usable on targets out to 200 yards.

Here's the 1894 in .357 along with an 1895 in 45/70.

And yes Groo... If only I had one in .41 Magnum. Perfect companion for my Model 58 Smith.

[btroj]

I have a 32-20, 357, and 45 Colt. The 357 is easy to feed and cheap. The 45 Colt is more accurate with a wider variety of bullets and loads. The 32-20 is just fun.

For a combo deal a 357 just makes sense.

[Phillip]

I went with Rossi 92 with a 24" barrel in 45 Colt or as some call it 45 Long Colt. The reason I went with this choice is because it lets me load with black powder as well as smokeless with different bullet weights and matching revolvers can be had cheep used. And there are a ton of bullet molds for this caliber out there to try out.

If black powder does not interest you and you have a 44 mag revolver then I would look at a Rossi 92 in 44 mag. The 44 mag version will shoot 44 special as well.

You can usually pick them up for around 450$ and with another 75$ in parts and some time, you can make them smooth as silk. http://store.stevesgunz.com/

[gundownunder]

I've got a 32-20 and 357 and have a 45 on my wish list.
The 32-20 is a fun gun and is scary accurate, it would do for PC silhouette and small game up to dog size. The 357 is good with factory ammo but is really fussy with cast, if you can get the accuracy it would do for medium game and PC silhouette. I wish I had the 45 because there are a couple at my local gun club and they are way more accurate in my hands than my 357 is and will shoot heavier bullets than a 44 at the same velocity as a 44. Either the 44 or 45 would give me the confidence to take a crack at any big beasties including camels in the outback and would also give me enough grunt for 200 yd silhouette rams some of which my 357 leaves standing.
If you already load for a 44 or 45 handgun then a rifle to match would be the go, otherwise I think the advantage goes to the 45.
I would have traded my 357 on a 45 a long time ago, the only reason I haven't is because of our draconian licensing system over here.

[Cosmiceyes]

I will say .357 mag as lots more bollits.More variety in gun combo's.I have a Browning that has always been 357,and have dropped deer out to 125 meters.
Here is a great Browning rifle and a Marlin.
752007520175202

[Victor N TN]

I sold my Ruger Blackhawk in 44 mag 30 years ago. But I kept the Winchester '94 chambered in the same. Then I found a S&W 629. So now I have a 44 mag couple again. Outside of 38/357 I think the 44 mag is easier to find ammo for than some of the other calibers.

Good luck in your choice.
Victor

[rookie7]

Have had many years of bolt action and AR competitions/hunting. Now I am venturing into the world of lever guns .. bowing to the stored knowledge here and would value your recommendations on first pistol caliber lever gun and cast boolits for Hunting Deer sized game at 100 yds or less range ..I am an excellent shot so placement is not a real issue..

Thinking 44 mag or 45 LC but open to suggestions

I am not brand concerned as long as it has a track record of being a reliable gun

First.. Must be a affordable gun say approx $500.00-$600.00.. used is fine
Second... Tell me why this choice and the boolit weight and mold

Also thinking 50 % lead 48% COWW and 2% tin for the alloy

Actual experience please not I think this will do.. the absolute last thing I want to do is wound an animal because of poor equipment/boolit choice !!

Good morning. First post hear on CB for me. I read your post, and just had to register because I love hunting with my Marlin 1894 in .44 mag.

I have taken 4 nice Georgia bucks with my 1894. 3 were with 240 grain jhp plain old Remington factory bullets, and my latest one was with a handloaded 200 grain hornady xtp. All bullets did the job very nicely on all bucks.

To meet your criteria: Marlin or Rossi in .44 mag - IMO. Ammo is easier to find if you have to use factory aside from handloading.

If you buy a Rossi consider looking at the 20" model with octagon barrel. I have a Puma like that, and the balance is wonderful. Not too heavy, and not too light. It is more accurate than my 1894. It also really likes a 240 gr hardcast SWC from a local guy. I don't cast my own yet. If you want to scope your rifle - and want it to come setup with said ability from the factory your choice will have to be the 1894 or the round barrel Rossi. The octagon model is not drilled and tapped.

Rossi rifles can be found for $450 NIB give or take. You can also get one in stainless which is a nice plus. Marlin 1894 in .44 mag are around $600 new plus tax if you can find one. You can find a used one pretty easily for $500 to $600 in .44 mag.

Unless your FFL has a magic wand don't hold your breathe for a new 1894c in .357. They are impossible to find, and bring around $800. Used ones bring as much or more.

I have both, and enjoy shooting the .357 for fun, but if the rifle's primary job is hunting I would pick the .44. With that said, I do plan to try and kill a deer this fall with the .357. I just got it back at the first of March after looking for 2 years.

Good luck, and all of the above is just my opinion based on some experience.

[Pb2au]

The other thing that impressed me with Rossi's rifles is that the owner's manual is not roll stamped all over the barrel, receiver, etc etc etc. Minimal markings and stampings on the rifle. As Rookie7 said, the octo-barrel 24" guns have nice weight to them and the balance even loaded is comfortable.

[calaverasslim]

I see no one has mentioned the 44wcf. Yep, the good old 44-40. 200gr to 240gr cast out to 100 yards. I like 4227 for the heavier bullet.

Also available in jacketed ammo but very pricey.

I have shot a number of white tail here in TX. using my M1894 in this caliber. Since 1873, this one has taken a lot of game.

And, to make it nice, there are handguns in this caliber, from S&W M544 down to single actions in various brands

[phonejack]

I have a Rossi 24" ,Ruger Blackhawk and a Highway patrolman all in .357. I have one J-bullet load that happens to be the most accurate in each of the three guns. A Ruger lever gun in 44 magnum sure is tempting though.

[Baja_Traveler]

I have a Rossi 92 and a Ruger Vaquero in .357 - both have only ever seen 25 grains of 3f Swiss, and are more than capable of taking down deer. I wouldn't trade them for any other caliber.

[Artful]

Have had many years of bolt action and AR competitions/hunting. Now I am venturing into the world of lever guns .. bowing to the stored knowledge here and would value your recommendations on first pistol caliber lever gun and cast boolits for Hunting Deer sized game at 100 yds or less range ..I am an excellent shot so placement is not a real issue..

Thinking 44 mag or 45 LC but open to suggestions

I am not brand concerned as long as it has a track record of being a reliable gun

Marlin - get a used one before the extra Safety buttons.

First.. Must be a affordable gun say approx $500.00-$600.00.. used is fine
Second... Tell me why this choice and the boolit weight and mold

Also thinking 50 % lead 48% COWW and 2% tin for the alloy

Actual experience please not I think this will do.. the absolute last thing I want to do is wound an animal because of poor equipment/boolit choice !!

Having used my 357 mag Rossi on deer - it's an iffy caliber in some shots
- 44 mag seems to kill all out of proportion to it's paper ballistic's, much better than 357 - have never used 45 colt on live game.

Marlin - Long history and proven design - try and get pre-cross bolt safety for simplicity. Marlin also because it's easier to take apart to clean and easier to mount other sights (like scopes) too. Lots of support. Slick up a few parts and operate it smartly and will never let you down.

Molds - well I have a fair number of 'em, most all work just fine once you find the correct place to crimp 'em - remember on tubular must have a flat point to keep safe from magazine explosion with pointed.

Probably my two most used are Lyman Bullet Mold #429421 and RCBS 44-250 KT - both SWC - Look for Unique loads for midrange / small game practice and 2400 powder for full boar charges. I also have a 429215 HP mold that I lost the pin for but it was pretty awesome for Splatting small unedible game animals.

[hickstick_10]

If your an excellent shot go make a few cash bets at the range and get yourself a marlin 1894 cowboy in 357 mag, tapered octagon barrel makes a world of difference in feel/handling. A parralel sided octagon barrel on a lever gun feels like trying to shoot a road chisel (the modern Henrys are bad for this), and the last rossi I shot was also parralel sided, they may have changed since then.

Any of the flat ended 158 grain moulds will do the job, I prefer the gas checked ones for pushing them a touch faster. For everything else the I use the similar weight round nose.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have several lever guns one of the most fun and accurate I have is a 480 Ruger from Legacy Sports stainless I run 355 grain WFN at 1650 FPS.

Another favorite is my Henry Big Boy in 45 LC I love the 315 WFN GC from my 6 cavity LEE mold. This bullet I have two loads one is +p that is 24.0 grains of H110 for velocity of 1575 FPS. Great for hunting. I load the same bullet over 9.0 grains of Universal Clays for 1150 FPS for a real fun plinking load. These Henry are really nice looking guns I have Trijicon 1-4 mounted on mine and I can tell you both loads will cut a clover leaf at 50 yards and within 2" at 100 yards. I highly recommend the Henry Rifle you can get many handgun calibers they run smooth as glass, accurate reliable and very nice looking.

[ironhead7544]

I favor the 44 Magnum in a Rossi M92. Best bang for the buck. The M92 might need a little tweaking but no big deal. The 357 Magnum would be OK with the right bullet for deer. The 357 is a little bit cheaper than the 44 to shoot but not that much.

If I had to choose just one, the stainless M92 carbine in 44 Magnum would be my choice.

If you want to shoot black powder, then the 44-40 is best.

[Grapeshot]

My first pistol caliber lever gun was an A.Uberti M1873 in .44WCF. I had the barrel replaced with a Douglas .45 caliber barrel chambered in .45 Colt to go with my S&W M25-5 and later with my Dakota .45 SAA. After 31 years, it's still shooting accurately with all cast and jacketed projectiles from 200 to 300 grains in weight with almost all powders I've tried.

[427smith]

I agree with IRONHEAD7544, rifles are not legal for deer where I live. Pistols are legal and I've killed deer out to 80 yards with a 44 mag. 5 1/2 redhawk. I have a ROSSI puma 44 mag and I think it would be excellent for deer plus lots of fun. My ROSSI shoots 2 inch 50 yard groups with factory sights and bullets sized to .431 I think factory ammo would do just as well. Only down side is my ROSSI was very stiff, but a good spring kit will make it right.

[makicjf]

I could go anywhere on earth with either rossi 92 in 45 colt ( I shoot 320 gc flat nose, 255 swc or rnfp) and a ruger Blackhawk chmbered the same. A little shooting smooths the rifles up a bunch. Accurate, powerful and cheap to shoot. My 20 inch carbine is the most versatile weapon I own.
Jason

[starmac]

For some odd reason, I have never had the desire for pistol cartridge. I can't say why. In 78 the week after I bought my first 44, I bought a ruger carbine chambered for the 44, it was a great little gun, that performed well, but I just never warmed up to it for some reason, it was eventually one of the very few guns that I have traded off.

The 32/20 does interest me though, again I can't put a finger on why, but if I came across a good buy on one, I would have to have it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75189&stc=1&d=1372809395

ScharfShooter: Did you replace the stock and lever on your 1895CB? I have never seen an 1895 CB with a Pistol Grip Stock?

Looks good and it's unique.

Randy

[DougGuy]

I'm also coming into the research stage for at least one lever gun in pistol caliber, possibly two.

Primarily looking for recommendations for .45 Colt and .44 magnum, for hunting with heavyweight WFN gas check cast boolits.

With a barrel length of 20" what twist rate would be good with these boolits? I am loading these to the Ruger Only levels in a Vaquero and Super Blackhawk, they are probably in the 1150-1300f/s range, just guessing from the load data as I have no chrony.

44 magnum:
Oregon Trail 310gr WFN GC
Lee 430-310 WFN GC

45 Colt:
Lee 320gr WFN GC
Beartooth 330gr WFN PB
Beartooth 340gr WFN GC

I have read a couple of the lever gun threads but none really specific for the cast boolits listed, most advice was given on cost or quality or looks.

Used to own a pair of 94 Trappers, think they were the cheap ones Winchester sold in the 1990s, they were okay but I wasn't terribly impressed and I wasn't shooting cast boolits then either. I'm open to suggestions for reasons like rifling, and how one barrel would rate better than another with cast boolits, ability to feed those flat nose boolits, and of course how accurate out to about 150yds. These would obviously be for hogs and deer. If you have a better suggestion than a lever gun, I'm all ears.

[Scharfschuetze]

Randy,

It's a 1 of 1,000 special edition 1895 from Marlin. It shoots as good as it looks!

[Jupiter7]

For nostalgia's sake, the 45 colt get my vote. For all around shooting the 38/357 is the bees knees. I've taken two deer with a Rossi saddle ring carbine with hornady 140gr leverlution 357 ammo(prior to my casting hobby). Complete pass through on broadside shots, one clipped the heart and the other a double lung. The real fun comes when plinking, load up 38's and let it rip. Everyone loves the 38 levergun, great for kids and new shooters, stupid accurate and plenty of power for small game. 357 with the right load gets up to the low ends of 30-30 and 7.62x39, plenty of power for whitetail in my area.

For irons only the 92, optics the marlin. For me it came down to already owning and loading 45auto, the same boolits will work for light plinking loads in the 45colt. Add a blackhawk in 45colt and I'm ready for just about anything. Personally I like 270grs or more.

[Lloyd Smale]

Id go 44 mag as nothing is more versitile. It can hunt ANYTHING with the right load and with 44 special level loads is no harder to shoot then a mild 357. If it were me though id go with a 94 winchester. Yes 92s are stronger but a 94 either marlin or winchester is plenty strong for any pistol ammo load that comes out of any loading manual and real 92 winchesters or brownings are a tad expensive. If it were me id look for a winchester 94. It may cause arguments here but it think there usually more accurate. If i could find one id recomend you pick up a 94 trapper in 44. Or the same in 45 or 357 if thats the route you want to take. I have a 44 and had a 357 and both would shoot 1.5 in 5 shot groups at a 100 yards. My 20 inch 44 marlin is lucky to do 3 inch at the same distance and my 44p is lucky to do 5 inch. the few 92 pumas ive shot have been pretty good shooters too but the fit and finish isnt up to a marlin or winchester in my opinion. Dont take me wrong though i would be a bit ashamed to have one in the same. As a matter of fact if they made another run of 480 stainless 16 inch guns id have to find a way to get my hands on one.

[DougGuy]

Id go 44 mag as nothing is more versitile. It can hunt ANYTHING with the right load and with 44 special level loads is no harder to shoot then a mild 357. If it were me though id go with a 94 winchester.

If i could find one id recomend you pick up a 94 trapper in 44.

I have a 44 and had a 357 and both would shoot 1.5 in 5 shot groups at a 100 yards.

As a matter of fact if they made another run of 480 stainless 16 inch guns id have to find a way to get my hands on one.

Handloading between the two calibers with heavy boolits, is apples and oranges. There is really nothing one does that the other won't, the 45 handles a bit heavier boolits, and I can cut down 45 brass to Schofield length like nobody's business if I feel that bad a need to slow it down but that isn't even in the plan. The only advantage that the 44 has on the 45 Colt is availability of store bought ammo, which I was pretty specific in the loads I use, none of which are store bought. Oh and a slightly thicker barrel for when I begin to develop the .44 Casull.... Ya right..

I had both the 44 and 45 Trappers when they were newly introduced in the 1990s. Was that USFA back then that made them? The 45 kept shooting off the rear sight wedge and I had to add a piece of square keystock in the barrel band and a double square notch in the barrel and magazine tube and fit it between them to keep the forestock from traveling toward the front sight. I was nary impressed.

That was almost 20yrs ago, so if they are making the trappers better nowdays I might could own another one.

+1 vote for the 94, for accuracy.. Aight, thank you for that Lloyd! That's the kind of answers I was looking for.

Edit: Also considering the sights, I 'd like a ghost ring but is that slower to pickup in a hurry if you had a hog after yer grits?

Anyone else?

[Smoke4320]

good answers please keep them coming .. and I like the gun pics as well Thanks for taking the time to post them

Thanks

[Ramjet-SS]

Id go 44 mag as nothing is more versitile. It can hunt ANYTHING with the right load and with 44 special level loads is no harder to shoot then a mild 357. If it were me though id go with a 94 winchester. Yes 92s are stronger but a 94 either marlin or winchester is plenty strong for any pistol ammo load that comes out of any loading manual and real 92 winchesters or brownings are a tad expensive. If it were me id look for a winchester 94. It may cause arguments here but it think there usually more accurate. If i could find one id recomend you pick up a 94 trapper in 44. Or the same in 45 or 357 if thats the route you want to take. I have a 44 and had a 357 and both would shoot 1.5 in 5 shot groups at a 100 yards. My 20 inch 44 marlin is lucky to do 3 inch at the same distance and my 44p is lucky to do 5 inch. the few 92 pumas ive shot have been pretty good shooters too but the fit and finish isnt up to a marlin or winchester in my opinion. Dont take me wrong though i would be a bit ashamed to have one in the same. As a matter of fact if they made another run of 480 stainless 16 inch guns id have to find a way to get my hands on one.


I just gave one to my good buddy I kept the 20" version. Very accurate with 355 grain WFN running about 1550 FPS put an AO Scout Scope mount and Leupold 2.5x intermediate eye relief scope. Nice setup.

[Artful]

good answers please keep them coming .. and I like the gun pics as well Thanks for taking the time to post them

Thanks

Most all look pretty much the same from my era
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Marlin189444Mag.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Marlin189444Mag.jpg.html)

[Good Cheer]

First off, for happy happy joy joy lever action pistol caliber fun and hunting there is no reason not to get a reproduction 1873 with a full length barrel.
Well, except there's that weaker action thing, and there's that running out of lube in the longer barrel when you shoot black or 777 in it. Well, ok, depending on your likes and dislikes there's a few reasons besides just something new to market that created the 1876, the 1892, the 1894...

But when you throw a full length '73 to your shoulder it's like having a Kentucky long rifle that shoots time after time after time.
My daddy's was a 38-40. I got him a '73 Colt with 4 5/8" barrel to go with it. That was a fine hitting drive all the way through a deer rifle and a fine shooting revolver. I don't think you could go wrong. Lymans old black powder design round flat nose is all you'd need if you use the black to keep the boolit from backing into the case. With smokeless you'd probably want to choose a design to crimp into. You won't have the versatility of boolit designs and you'll have to learn how make those thin case walls behave but most likely you'd love it. Unless you can find a .41 mag.

[DougGuy]

Winchester I know made a model 94 trapper but I saw a pic of a 92 trapper the other day, was that a typo or did they make more than one style of trapper? What is the difference in the 92 and 94? Which would be better for heavy boolits and +P loads?

[Artful]

Winchester used "Trapper" to describe a shortened barrel version - so yes you can get either '92 or '94 in Trapper models
the '92 is for shorter cartridges only but the '94 is for cartridges up thru 30-30 length. Stoutest load in '94 was 375 big bore and required strengthening the action to take the cartridge - also on the strengthened 94 XTR action they offered 307 winchester (rimmed version of 308 WCF) and 356 winchester (rimmed version of 358 WCF).

[superior]

75597
I could go anywhere on earth with either rossi 92 in 45 colt ( I shoot 320 gc flat nose, 255 swc or rnfp) and a ruger Blackhawk chmbered the same. A little shooting smooths the rifles up a bunch. Accurate, powerful and cheap to shoot. My 20 inch carbine is the most versatile weapon I own.
Jason

I feed a 20" Rossi92 and Blackhawk 7.5 . Both are super accurate and have dropped critters like they were hit by a bus. I use Lee 452-300-rf a/c ww unsized .
I couldn't be happier with the results. Lately I've been having a blast with 24 gr. h110 in both.

[DougGuy]

Nice one superior! Have you weighed any of those 452-300s? Mine are a/c Lyman #2 and they are 320gr with the gas check installed. I have good results with them but I'm only putting 23gr H110 behind them without pressure signs. I have better accuracy using 20.5gr of LilGun than with H110, and also using Felix lube made a nice difference over the hard blue magma lube. 1/3 smaller groups with LilGun and Felix lube.

That is probably the single best performing thin skinned game hunting boolit in .45 Colt, bar none.

[rhead]

Between the 44 mag and the 45 colt for a round in a lever action rifle unless you already own a Ruger strength revolver in one of the chamberings, from the ballistics standpoint it really does not matter. Any difference is just on paper. The 44 mag is a little more common and a bargain is a little more likely. With a revolver in something other than a Ruger going with something other than the 44 is asking for trouble or accepting less than optimal performance from the rifle. Same answer if you do not reload but then why are you on this forum?
If you have something less than a ruger in the revolver go with the 44.

[DougGuy]

I have Rugers in both calibers, which is why the discussion. I also handload heavy boolits in both calibers, as I outlined in the first post I made in this thread.

Between the 92 and the 94 trappers, would one feed wide meplat boolits easier than the other?

Would I be able to feed the Lee RNFP cast boolits in each caliber? Do the trappers have feeding problems with boolits like these in the pics?

This in .44 magnum, the 310gr Oregon Trail, or the Lee 430-310 boolit:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/44images_zpsefff63c1.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/44images_zpsefff63c1.jpg.html)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/OregonTrails310gr_zps9361c3a2.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/OregonTrails310gr_zps9361c3a2.jpg.html)

This in .45 Colt, Lee 452-300 GC boolit:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/20130527_182014a_zpsea9bd06b.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/20130527_182014a_zpsea9bd06b.jpg.html)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Doug: those are serious crimps in the pic above. Did you use a Lee Collet style crimp die to do them?

My Marlin 1894 CB 24"bbl will feed rounds like that after I chamfered the chamber mouth. Prior to chamfering the boolits would get cut by the chamber mouth and jammed into it.

The .040-.060 chamfer fixed all of this and the gun feeds anything now as fast as you can work the lever.

Randy

[DougGuy]

Doug: those are serious crimps in the pic above. Did you use a Lee Collet style crimp die to do them?

My Marlin 1894 CB 24"bbl will feed rounds like that after I chamfered the chamber mouth. Prior to chamfering the boolits would get cut by the chamber mouth and jammed into it.

The .040-.060 chamfer fixed all of this and the gun feeds anything now as fast as you can work the lever.

Randy

Yep Randy I used a modified one of those, there is a fair amount of case neck tension as well as that crimp. They don't move at all.

More on this die here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

[missionary5155]

Good morning
If you already shoot the 44 mag buy one of those.
But if not go with the 45 Colt or even better the 454 (the 45 mag). Marlins are getting expensive. But there is no reason not to get a new Rossi. They run about $460. I have two. You may need to clean it a little inside but no bid deal. There ia a good Rossi site Rossi Rifleman that can go into great detail about these fine little carbines.
$5 Colt or 454 can easily launch 300 grainers at very leathal velocities . I like a 200 grainer for plinking and light weight targets. 265 grainers for average hunting. 270 and up for beasties that might be irratable.
Have a .460 round ball that makes a good bunny, ground hog load.
So if I was going to have just one.. the 45 Colt or 454 Casull would be the one. That 454 will launch a 300 grainer at 45/70 velocities.
Mike in Peru

[snaketail]

I have a 454 that I shoot 45 Colt in. Nice gun - but getting tired of chasing accuracy. Drive 'em fast and you lead up, drive 'em slow and you get rainbow trajectory. If I were to start over I'd be looking for a .32-20. I shot next to a Browning 32-20 on Saturday - it looked good, didn't eat much and shot very accurately. Wish I had one too.

[Smoke4320]

Mike in Peru
Thanks for the post ..
I have about decided to go with a Rossi 45 Colt .. Already have a judge so they would go together anyway
probably have to put a receiver Peep sight on it

Thanks
Smoke4320

[superior]

Nice one superior! Have you weighed any of those 452-300s? Mine are a/c Lyman #2 and they are 320gr with the gas check installed. I have good results with them but I'm only putting 23gr H110 behind them without pressure signs. I have better accuracy using 20.5gr of LilGun than with H110, and also using Felix lube made a nice difference over the hard blue magma lube. 1/3 smaller groups with LilGun and Felix lube.

That is probably the single best performing thin skinned game hunting boolit in .45 Colt, bar none.

No, Doug, my humble scale doesn't have that high of a capacity. I make my own pan lube. I wouldn't feel undergunned against most thick skinned critters also!!
Thanks, superior

[W.R.Buchanan]

Doug: Nice job on the collet mod. Nice looking crimps too.

I might have to get a few extra collets with my Lee Crimp Die to mod for various boolits.

One thing I do with all of my Lee Collet crimpers is to deburr the collet with a Scotchbrite fuzz wheel. It gets in all the nooks and crannys especially the edges of the slots that contact the cases and leave burrs.

Randy

[helice]

Randy,
I concur with your movement to the 45Colt. I have 2 .357s, a Browning B-92 in 44 Mag and a Rossi in 45 Colt. The 357s get a lot more practice use. The kids and the ladies like them a lot and it's hard to keep my ammo cans full. The 44 mag is great cause a fellow can pull (well maybe could have pulled last year) into any sporting goods store and find 44 mag ctgs. But that 45 Colt has got a presence about it that the others don't seem to have. The Rossi pairs up well with my BlackHawk convertible. Since you are already loading for it in a revolver the rifle seems like the most logical move. I have warned others of the dangers of letting others shoot your model 92s. Some family members can get rather possessive of your Rossi even tho they haven't shed the currency for it. You buy a Rossi 92 and you'll find out who in your family is truly worthy of trust and who have a streak of larceny:evil: in their DNA. :mrgreen:

[DougGuy]

One thing I do with all of my Lee Collet crimpers is to deburr the collet with a Scotchbrite fuzz wheel. It gets in all the nooks and crannys especially the edges of the slots that contact the cases and leave burrs.

Randy

Thanks Randy, I take them apart and degrease them and deburr them right out of the box. Never tried the fuzz wheel probably ought to pick up some, I got about every other kind of wheel for a dremel.

Let me throw this out there too.. I didn't know this but apparently SAAMI specs are different for a pistol and a rifle in .44 caliber.

Pistol: .417" land - .429" groove

Rifle: .424" land - .431" groove

Have you ever heard of this? Are these old specs or are they still valid? Have you slugged or measured a .44 caliber model 92 or 94? Got me curious now. This came from a poster who was having terrible accuracy out of a Marlin with the same loads that shot well in a Blackhawk, so he switched to a .430" boolit and that fixed it.

[starmac]

I have always heard the marlins were a little big in the 44's, but never heard the sammi specs were different, interesting.

[DougGuy]

I found the files and there are more differences than just land/groove diameter. Wonder how many modern leverguns chambered for the .44 adhere to these specs?

.44 pistol - .417"-.429", 6 grooves, .1076"-.1078" wide, 1:20 RH twist.

.44 rifle - .424"-.432", 12 grooves, .055"-.057" wide, 1:38 RH twist.

Note also that the .44 Rem Mag is the only pistol caliber that SAAMI lists rifle specs for as well.

Images posted for reference:

SAAMI spec for .44 Remington Magnum Pistol:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/44RemMagPistol_zpsa96a71b0.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/44RemMagPistol_zpsa96a71b0.jpg.html)

SAAMI spec for .44 Remington Magnum Rifle:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/44RemMagRifle_zpsbb7ce0be.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/44RemMagRifle_zpsbb7ce0be.jpg.html)

[sealow]

Marlin 1894CS .357 I have one: Just wanting to get a Henry big boy in .357.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Doug: You make the fuzz wheels out of 2,3 or 4 Red Scotch Brite pads.

You fold them diagonally and cut off the strip. Then you have a square. Then you fold the square diagonally twice and cut the very corner which gives you the hole to put onto your grinder or buffer shaft.

After the corners get knocked off (which happens pretty quickly) the wheel develops a stringy exterior and when you put threads or slots up against it the strings (fuzz) tends to get down into all the little nooks and cranny's. Best way to polish threads there is.

I make collets for jewelers lathes in my shop. After the collets are split I use a regular scotch-brite de-burring wheel and spin the collet on a rod to deburr the outside, then over to the other side of the machine with the fuzz wheel to clean out the slots and threads and then back to the other side to final polish the done part. takes 15 seconds per part, and they look perfect when done.

I do the same thing to all my Lee collets, and it makes the crimps on brass come out without burrs or any sharp edges like you might have seen with un-deburred collet crimpers.

Randy.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have heard the reason for the larger groove dia. in rifles is the pressure the cartridge runs at. In pistols it is 35,000 psi and in a rifle with the same sized bore that pressure would increase dramatically. Thus the .431 size to insure jacketed factory loads don't blow up the leverguns which are not good for a whole lot more than 43,00 psi.

As far as the 1:38 twist this is a carry over from the .44-40 and is simply about reluctance to change. People in the know have been fighting to get 1/20 rifle barrels from Marlin for some time. Rugers RG77-44 has a 1;20 twist rate and will stabilize boolits well into the 300 grain range, as long as you can safely seat them deep enough to fit the magazine of the rifles.

In Marlins re-barreling is the way to get faster twist rates, and moving the step on the cartridge lifter back .125 will make the gun swallow longer rounds up to 1.750.. This is what I did with mine along with chamfering the chamber mouth .040-.050. It will feed cartridges with 429244's seated in the crimp groove and 1.680 in length easily.

Brian Pearce and Ashley Emerson both have 1894 carbines reworked by David Clay that have 1:16 twist barrels and are used primarily for shooting boolits in the 320-340gr range at 1800-2000 fps! Needless to say there is a price to pay when dropping the hammer on one of these *** kicker loads in a 6.5-7lb gun. But from all reports the hogs never know what hit them.

My Marlin 1984 CB with a 24" bbl shoots 250 gr boolits of various configurations into about 2-2.5" at 50 yds. That is 6-7" at 150 yds which is pretty much the end of usable range for most things. Boolits above 280 gr don't seem to produce as much accuracy from the 1:38 twist barrels unless you push them harder.

I have hit a some 200 meter silhouette rams with a few 250's and 260's and they are knocked over with "Authority!"

Randy