Plain Base CB Redux

[Maven]

If you read these pages, you know several of us, e.g., Ben, HarryMPope (sic), et al., have been experimenting with plain base CB's or those [cast from molds] which have been converted to plain base. Needless to say, to avoid bore leading while maintaining accuracy, the powder charge is light, and the recoil practically nonexistent. The other day I retested the Saeco #315 CB (truncated cone nose wi. meplat, tapered Loverin style body, gas check) that's a tack driver in my .30-06 with GC's, but reformed into a plain based CB via a Hanned bump die*, which essentially removes the GC shank and leaves a perfectly flat base. It will also "salvage" CB's with minor imperfections, i.e., those you don't want to waste a GC on. Once reformed, I ran them through a .312" sizing die and lubed them in a normal fashion. The results are attached in a PDF file below. (My camera is being a bit balky this AM.) If the PDF opens for you, you will notice a 10-shot group, with the last shot a flyer (my fault) and #7 a bit out of group (my fault as well as I was fending off mosquitos)**. Those results are typical of the bumped/reconfigured #315 and are repeatable.

The particulars: The rifle is a Win. Westerner glass bedded and wearing a Tasco Mag. IV 4 x 16 scope. Rem. 30-06 brass fired 6x, but FL resized and flared via a Lyman M-die. The powder was 8.7-8.8grs. of Unique thrown from a Lyman Accumeasure (rotor #10s), while the primers were CCI #334's (ca. 1997). Btw, what leading there was was minor, easily wiping out with 2 Hoppes #9 soaked patches. The accuracy of the now plain based #315 is more than worth the extra effort to reform it.



*When I first started casting for the '06, I purchased 2 molds, a Lee C309-180R & a Lyman #311291, bore riders, which didn't ride the bore. I later read about Ed Wosika's bumping/reforming die (in "The Fouling Shot"?) and after much CB fitting as per Ed's detailed instructions, ordered one. Prior to using the Hanned die, the best I could do with either gas checked CB was ~2moa. After using the die, which bumps the nose to .302" and the body to .3105", accuracy improved greatly: 1 moa if I paid attention. Btw, the die flattens the GC and has a nose/ejector punch that allows you to form a small meplat on the CB. So flattened, the noses cut a nice, clean hole in the target. Lastly, the die gives remarkably uniform results when you use it consistently.


**The target is 3" x 3"

[popper]

after much CB fitting
Swaging a perfect base & throat fit should make a good CB. What does it do to the grooves? 8 gr is pretty much a plinker load in 06 isn't it? How does it do with a hotter load?

[Maven]

You're right, popper. The Hanned die was designed around a perfect fit to the throat of one's rifle. Bases, whether GC or plain are also perfectly flat. In fact, the amount of reforming can be varied by raising or lowering the die in the press. However, it doesn't really remove the driving bands; i.e., unless you try to shove a .325" CB through it. It's more at home with underperforming (too small) bore riders than Loverin types, but I wanted to see whether the #315 once reshaped, would outperform the Lee 30-150TL as cast or modified via that die. (It does.) The PB CB's are mostly for plinking with light charges of Unique, Clays, or Blue Dot. I tried 10 - 14grs. WC 820 (AA #9 burning rate), which left me with a leaded bore, extremely sooty cases, and only so-so accuracy. I'll say this about 8.7grs. Unique and the reformed 175gr. Saeco #315, it smacks our berm with authority!

[popper]

I've been playing with PB RD 311 180 pretty stout loads in 30-30 with good results. The RD fits my 336 well.

[shredder]

This is a new one for me, and you have my attention. As per the above poster's request, could you please share a bit more about the reforming die? I am plain base shooter as well. Ben is rubbing off on me! Sedate velocity from a 30/06 with light charges and scary accuracy is exactly what I am after. M yexperiments have all been along thelines you are describeing. I have a Lee 160 grain RN mold that I converted to plain base for my 30-30 and it seems to want to shoot in the 06 as well. For these loads I am using 45-45-10 tumble lube as opposed to filling the grease grooves. So far I am having some sporadic success and am always looking to up the anti!

[Maven]

shredder, I don't think Ed Wosika still makes those dies, but here's a link with an article and his address (Don't know if it's current, though): http://www.fiveshot.org/guests/longrange.htm As for the die itself, it is caliber specific and was cut to fit your rifle's throat. After following Ed's detailed instructions, you mailed your findings and maybe the slug to him and he cut your die. The die looks something like a Lee push through sizing die, but with an ejector at its top: flat nose or lead filled to fit a given CB nose. The base is essentially the same as the Lee push through die's. To operate it, you screw it into your press so that, in my case, it almost touches the base pin. Place a CB, with or without a GC, raise the press ram,and strike ithe now raised ejector pin 3 times with a
nylon/leather mallet. Lower the ram and gently strike the ejector pin to release the now bumped and reformed CB.

As for accuracy, I'm finding powder charge is everything. To wit, 7.5grs. Clays, 8.7grs. Unique, or 9.5grs. Blue Dot work very well with either the now plain based Saeco #315 (175grs.) or the Lee 30-150TL (only 140grs.). Btw, those weights are what different rotors for my Lyman Accumeasure drop and they are ultrareliable.

[Maven]

"I would like to see the "before and after" boolits from the Hanned die. Swaging takes a lot of force, so I'm thinking the boolits were pretty soft to begin with. What say you, Maven?"


I was thinking about before-after pics as well, but I'm having camera difficulties at the moment. I'll try to resolve them and post them as soon as I can. My alloy is essentially WW + 1% Sn, which I no longer heat-treat or water drop. And you're right, you have to strike the ejector pin with a nylon or leather mallet several times (with the press ram raised) to bump the CB's up. Trust me, they look quite different from the as cast CB once you do this. It is an extra step + they still need to be lubed (not ready for George's lubeless experiment yet), but the results, I think, are worth it.

[Maven]

I think I've got the camera problem solved. If so, there should be 2 pics of Saeco #315. One is #315 sized to .311", which doesn't alter its shape along side the bumped version. The other pic is of the flattened base of the PB version. I tried to get as close as I could and still maintain a focused image (camera on sturdy tripod), but my camera doesn't really allow macro settings: RAW yes, but no macro.

[shredder]

Yup a picture is really worth a thousand words. From your description (Thanks!) it sounds like a great way to get an absolutely precise fit to your rifle's throat with a variety of suitable boolits. I must investigate this further. If a die like that was ever included along with the rifle it fits when the rifle was sold that would be worth something.