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View Full Version : An Unlikely Cast Boolit Shooter



Bent Ramrod
09-30-2007, 08:06 PM
I certainly wouldn't have bought the New Model 70, but since I won it at a Friends of the NRA dinner, it seemed like spitting on Providence to refuse it. What kept me from trading it in on something of more interest was that it had the short-lived BOSS tuner option on the end of the barrel, and I'm a sucker for gadgetry when it comes with a really scientific explanation of how it works. Especially when it is a new discovery which solves the accuracy problems which have bedeviled shooters and handloaders for centuries.

The rifle was certainly everything its on-line detractors said it was, before the demise of Winchester in New Haven and the cries from the same quarters to bring all that great stuff back. The stock was warped over on the barrel, the bedding was a dab of some kind of clear hot-melt glue, already starting to chip, and the checkering looked like termite damage. You could slide a business card between the floorplate and the bottom metal, and the action and trigger were quite stiff, especially compared to the Pre-War and Pre-64 actions my friends were wont to show me in comparison. On the other hand, it did function, and it was "free," and some diligent souvenir hunting at Gun Shows had netted me a fair collection of .270 moulds. I mounted a scope on the thing and started checking it out.

I dinked around with the BOSS system and full-bore jacketed bullet loads. With the favorite loads, the "best" setting for the BOSS was about where they recommended I start in the first place. I eventually got bored with messing with it, locked it down and let it alone. Some judicious scraping of the side of the stock where it bore on the barrel did more for the accuracy than any BOSS tweaking. I ignored as best I could the large canyon between wood and metal on the right side, got an "M" die and cast some boolits up.

The gun shoots very well with jacketed, but a lot of guns (especially new ones) shoot very well with jacketed. This one shoots phenomenally well with cast, even with rather casually-assembled loads. I was using VitaVouri 133 in it for a while, and then somebody gave me half a canister of Unique to use up. Shooting off the truck tailgate at 50 yards today gave me the groups shown below.

8 grains Unique was what the Ideal Handbooks recommended, and it seems to work just fine, even with the "custom" plain-base boolit mould I found. The Ideal 280468 with gas check is a real wonder. I haven't tried the "S" version with this powder, but with VV it shoots about as good as this longer version.

I hate to think of all the sweating I've done with other rifles to get even the occasional one-hole and under-inch cast boolit group at fifty yards. Generally I figure on under 2" at a hundred yards being in the gilt-edge range. This rifle shoots well with powder I just want to use up and get in a little practice with. Even more shocking, these groups were made with the bore presumably plated with jacket fouling, as all I've ever done is patch the thing out with Hoppe's #9. The only boolit design I've found that gives outright mediocre accuracy in this rifle is the Ideal 280412; even the Handbook kind of apologized for that one.

Nobody's ever touted the .270 as any kind of "classic cast boolit rifle," and I don't know if this is just one of those anomalies or the indication that in this caliber we have some kind of sleeper. I didn't use any fillers, or take any care to position the powder. Anybody else getting startling results with little effort out of their .270's?

Maybe I ought to do something about that stiff trigger...:roll:

Jack Stanley
09-30-2007, 08:29 PM
Wow ! , that's pretty nice for a free rifle ! :-D The Winchester .223 I bought never would perform well with jacketed . Maybe I shoulda tried cast huh?

Jack

fourarmed
10-01-2007, 03:07 PM
I have on of the new M70 rifles (without Boss) in .270, and it is superbly accurate. I don't think it will group as well as yours with cast, though.

HORNET
10-02-2007, 03:13 PM
Check the diameter of that bore-riding nose on that 280412, both of the ones that I've checked were about .265 which kinda lets them wander around a .270 dia bore. I lapped my single cavity out to .269-.270 and it groups much better, almost as good as the RCBS 27-150-SP. I had to drill flash holes to .125 to get consistant ignition using pistol primers without fillers. Around 16.0 gr SR4759 is generally good and I ran some of the RCBS's ahead of 18.0 gr of IMR4198 with results that were really annoying. MUCH better than I've been getting with the .22's that I usually play with (3 shots in 1/4" at 50 yards- gotta try that some more).

PatMarlin
10-02-2007, 11:57 PM
Wow that's great. I just sold my pre-64 in 30'06. I hated to but I got an obscene offer for it and cashed it in.. [smilie=1:

I've had the RCBS 150 mold for probably 8 years now and it still sits brand new on the shelf. I have yet to shoot cast in my FN mauser, but I bought a pile of hornady gas checks off the forum here, and have got to get going on it.

PatMarlin
10-03-2007, 12:02 AM
Actually this is the first thread I can remember where actuall data was shown with the .270 and cast.

There's been some bragging about it, but when I've asked for some load data, they never produce it.

MtGun44
10-03-2007, 12:53 AM
As an experiment, could you try 10 gr Unique? I have this weird
fixation on that load. So far, in all my rifles that I have tried, and
a number of friends guns, and in several pistol calibers -- any
cartridge that is safe for 10 gr Unique has provided unusually
good accuracy. In several cases, it is the most accurate load
so far located for the particular pistol or rifle.

I'd love to have another data point, and since your .270 is shooting
extremely well with 8 gr, you may not want to go to 10 - but
it would be an interesting experiment.

Thanks for sharing your success!

Bill

copdills
10-03-2007, 07:17 AM
Very Nice cast is where its at, :Fire:

Calamity Jake
10-03-2007, 08:33 AM
Below is a group I posted about in the factory gun forum on 7/9/07 out of a Rem 700 270 with the Saeco #270. Distance is 100 yards.
This was shot during a Pdog match with a max scope power of 6X.
MY Rem 700 is a ¾ minute gun with condoms.
The shot in the 7 ring is a called flier, the 9 ring in 1 inch in Ø


http://photos.gunloads.com/images/CalamityJake/castinthe270.jpg

PatMarlin
10-03-2007, 09:35 AM
Well that explains it CJ... you're using a saeco, and 4895 2 of my favorite products.. :drinks:

wow- this is great. But now I juzt realized don't have a scope on my .270.. :roll:

Anyone have a Lyman peep that will fit a k98?

Bullshop
10-03-2007, 10:33 AM
Calamity Jake
Could you please tell me where to find that kind of score targets? BTW, Good shooting!
BIC/BS

Calamity Jake
10-03-2007, 11:12 AM
Calamity Jake
Could you please tell me where to find that kind of score targets? BTW, Good shooting!
BIC/BS

Bullshop, I think I have a blank one at home. Shoot me your snail mail addy, I will run off copies and send you some.
While you are at it send price for 2 bottles of spru plate lube with shipping, I need to order some more.


Pat, if you want to try some of them Saeco's, I'll send you some.

Scrounger
10-03-2007, 02:22 PM
Calamity Jake
Could you please tell me where to find that kind of score targets? BTW, Good shooting!
BIC/BS

Dan, pardon me for butting in but that looks like it might be one of the free targets Willy has for free downloading. Here is a link to the Homepage: http://gunloads.com/
Look for targets in the far left column. He has dozens to choose from.

HORNET
10-04-2007, 07:27 PM
By the way, the Lyman manuals have or had a little comment in the section on the .270 that some of their accuracy loads showed velocity spreads as low as 5 feet per second. That may not garauntee accuracy but it certainly is an indicator of potential. (Regardless of arguments about the existance or not of inherently accurate cartridges).

PatMarlin
10-04-2007, 11:54 PM
Pat, if you want to try some of them Saeco's, I'll send you some.

When I get my 270 up and running, I'll pm ya.. :drinks:

Bent Ramrod
10-05-2007, 02:21 AM
Thanks for the comments, everyone.

Hornet, I do remember that the nose on 280412 was pretty badly undersized. I never measured it but it rattled in the muzzle end of the barrel at least 4 or 5 thousandths.

MtnGun44, I do hope to raise the charge some. I think the Lyman handbook topped out at 8 grains, but the pressures didn't seem very extreme. I also hope to try 100 yards next time. One of the nice things I've noticed about cast boolits is you immediately know when the load is too heavy: the previously tight groups just scatter to the four winds.

The BOSS attachment has a built-in muzzle brake, which does not have the slider to cover the holes that Browning rifles with the attachment have. I notice a white powdery deposit in the holes and on the outside after a range session, which I presume is some vaporized lead. There never seems to be the kind of leading one normally encounters, but always this white deposit.

As I recall, there was a man named Rice around the turn of the XXth century who would drill vent holes from the front of the barrel into the grooves of the rifling an inch or so back. He claimed it drained some of the violence and turbulence of the leading edge of the expanding gases away as the bullet base left the end of the barrel, giving a more stable delivery into the atmosphere. Obviously, not many barrels so modified are found, so if there was such an effect, it wasn't consistent, but the guy didn't sound like a fly-by-night from his writings. Maybe when everything is just right, some kind of extra stability is added by judicious venting of the gases.

Anyway, I hope to get out again this weekend with the .270, if this wind dies down by then.

Newtire
10-05-2007, 08:35 AM
I have yet to shoot cast in my FN mauser, but I bought a pile of hornady gas checks off the forum here, and have got to get going on it.

Hey Pat,

I have been checking out my FN Mauser I picked up last year with cast boolits and so far have been doing some great shooting with it. I have been using some SR 4759 (18 gr.) and the RCBS boolit made for the 7.62 X39 and M-1 carbine (or so they say) and it is one of the most accurate loads I have ever seen. Another one works great in that thing is the RCBS 165 silhouette and 22 gr. SR 4759. If you want any of those little boolits or RCBS 165 grainers for that matter, send me your addy & I will ship you off a few to try. My daughter lives in Sacramento and if you live close by, I could send some up with her as she is coming over this way in a couple of weeks. Let me know.

PatMarlin
10-05-2007, 09:56 AM
Thanks for the offer NT, but my FN is a .270.

I'm a Sacramento native, but moved way north 8 years ago. I will be down there building a extended covered deck for my parents in about a week.. :roll:

You can tell I love going back to the city.. :roll: :mrgreen:

Bent Ramrod
10-08-2007, 10:35 PM
Just an update--went out yesterday and shot a few groups. No wind; it was all down in LA for a change. I moved the target out to 100 yards this time.

In the Model 70, the Ideal 280468 sized 0.278" with Alox/Beeswax and 8.0 gr Unique gave a 5 shot group of 1-3/8". Changing to Rooster Red lube gave a 2-1/2" group. However, if one assigns the first shot as some kind of lube changeover effect, the remaining four went into 1-5/8".

9.0 gr Unique with the 280468 and Alox/Beeswax gave 1-3/4" and 10.0 gr with the same boolit with Rooster Red gave a 3-1/4" vertical string, 7/8" wide. I had two shells left over with this boolit and 10.5 grains Unique and fired them just for effect. No pressure signs. Not a large sample to draw inferences from, but it looks like the 8 grain load maintains its potential. For me, at least, it seems to drop off in accuracy as the charge is increased. The gas checks were Lyman, by the way.

My other .270 didn't like the 280468 that much, giving groups of 2-1/2", 2-3/4" and 2" for 5 shots and a 3-3/8" group for 10 shots. However, two five-shot groups with the Ideal 280473 boolit, with Hornady gas check, gave 1-7/8" and 1-1/8". The powder for all groups with this rifle was 22.0 gr of VitaVouri N-130. The 280473 is a 27-caliber version of the pointy 311413, which isn't supposed to shoot well in .30-caliber rifles. Just goes to show that every rifle is a law unto itself. Both these rifles have hunting scopes on them with post reticles.

Sorry no pictures this time. Been a busy holiday weekend. But it appears that somebody with a .270 shouldn't think he's wasting his time trying cast boolits in it.

Underclocked
10-09-2007, 09:24 AM
break for some printable targets - the pdf ones are probably best as you don't have to worry much about scale when printing.

http://gunloads.com/modules.php?name=gallery2

http://www.protargets.com/targets/index2.htm

http://www.uspalma.com/Targets/targets.htm

http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf.html

http://glockfaq.com/targets.htm

http://www.schiessen-erzgebirge.de/sites/schiessscheiben.htm

http://www.mytargets.com/index.html

http://www.varmintal.com/atarg.htm

Bent Ramrod
10-09-2007, 10:25 PM
Thanks for those links, Underclocked. Some of those targets are pretty cool.