Name that powder!

[tyeo098]

Hints:
- This sample weighs 13.3gr
- It was under a 100gr plated projectile
- From a factory A-MERC 30 carbine load.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s249/tyeo098/20130602_112344_zpsf4027568.jpg

[chsparkman]

Looks something like H110 or W296, but that's just a guess. Are you planning to use this powder?

[tyeo098]

Knowing it came from an M1 carbine factory load, and that all the loads have the SAME exact charge weight, I would feel confident that using a bullet of the same construction and mass would yield results as expected.
H110 is the answer that I received on a few other forums as well, and the weight matches that for a standard carbine loading for that bullet weight.

[novalty]

Does H4227 look like that? Just ask as the Winchester/Hodgdon Load Data center shows that as the only powder with a charge weight in 13 grs. Everything else is above 14.

[Wayne Smith]

Factories that load millions of rounds DO NOT use the canister powders that we have. They buy powders by the trainload and mix and match until they have the load they want for this lot of so many hundred thousand rounds.

[novalty]

Factories that load millions of rounds DO NOT use the canister powders that we have. They buy powders by the trainload and mix and match until they have the load they want for this lot of so many hundred thousand rounds.

That makes a lot more sense.

[tyeo098]

I'm thinking I can start at a reduced load of 11gr or so and work up from there.

It is rifle powder that came from the same rounds I'd be loading in.

[jackmanuk]

it does look abit mix and match in the pic , deff not 4227 ..... well some of it might be :lovebooli

[303Guy]

H4227 is a stick powder and isn't black.

[tyeo098]

Using my .34 disk of my lee auto-disk gives me 5.2gr of powder.

Volumetric density is .0656 Which happens to be the same as:
Win 296 - perfect match, matches military ball load burn rate using H110.
Win 748 (too slow)
2230 (too slow)
Accurate #7 (too fast)
Accurate #9 (bit too fast)
1680 (possible candidate, if not too slow)
2460 (too slow)


H110 would have yielded 5.1gr with VD if .0672

So math settles it, its Win296!

[MtGun44]

I hope this isn't serious. Factory ammo is rarely/never loaded with cannister
powder, and there are dozens of very similary looking powders that are very
close, like 297, 299, etc.

This is pretty dangerous thinking, if you are doing anything except having
fun. Load from load books.

Bill

[leadman]

If it is 296/110 then you would need to heed the warning in the manuals concerning reducing the load stated in the manual by more than 3%. Is this already a reduced load?
The amount of powder is a tiny amount compared to the 7,000 grains in a pound of powder. Powder is $20 to $30 or so a pound. How much is you gun or eye, or ? worth?

[ku4hx]

This stuff is no longer usable powder, it's fertilizer pure and simple.

[lavenatti]

Wc820?

[riorider]

10-4 on the 820 a very good and useable powder!!!!!!

[bikerbeans]

IF you are thinking of reloading it into 30 carbine (IMO, a bad idea) then why pull the bullets, dump the powder and reload? Are the cartridges you are getting this powder from corroded?

BB

[tyeo098]

These cartridges were 'factory rejects' due to cosmetic issues, not corrosion but in most of them the case was not flared enough so the case scraped the plating/lead off one side of the bullet.

I measured another 10 cases and they all had 13.3gr of powder in them.

[bhn22]

The fact that they had AMERCs name on them is reason enough for concern. They were famous for abysmal quality.

[Wayne Smith]

I would NEVER load with an unknown like this. Not only do you not know what the powder is, you can be pretty well assured that it is NOT a canister powder similar to those you use.

[Shiloh]

296 or H-110. Just a guess. WOuldn't want to bet a firearm or my body parts on that guess.

Shiloh

[MtGun44]

Factory ammo is NOT loaded with cannister powder. Saying that
some unknown powder is "this powder" based on look and approximate burning
rate is absolute folly. Using that same powder, in the same cartridge with
the same weight bullet/boolit should be safe - IF IT IS FACTORY AMMO.

Any other changes are experimental work and require great care.

Bill

[tyeo098]

Using that same powder, in the same cartridge with
the same weight bullet/boolit should be safe - IF IT IS FACTORY AMMO.

This is what I was planning on doing.

[mpmarty]

Fertilizer.

[John Boy]

factories that load millions of rounds do not use the canister powders that we have.

name that powder!
... Garden fertilizer!

[flounderman]

If they would chamber, I would shoot them as they are. If they won't chamber, I would pull the bullet with an impact puller, flare the case and reload it with the same powder and bullet. I would look at the primer after fireing and see if it was flattening and how much. You could, run the pulled bullets thru a sizer if they are deformed. As long as you stick with the original load or a couple of tenths under I don't see a problem. I wouldn't try to use it in a different case than the carbine.

[armexman]

All, most powder has a High N, and unknown powder has a really high N ; so use it as fertilizer!!!!

[MtGun44]

Using that same powder, in the same cartridge with
the same weight bullet/boolit should be safe - IF IT IS FACTORY AMMO.

This is what I was planning on doing.
*******************
OK, that is good news from a safety standpoint. But now I am
confused about the whole discussion.
Why bother with the pointless exercise of "naming it"??? The impression
was left that you were going to be using this quantity of powder in some
loading situation - but all you had to do was to identify what powder it
is. This is based on an underlying assumption which is not true - that it is
a powder that you could buy and then use, meaning a commercial cannister
powder.

If you are just going to use it, then just use it. It is almost certainly not any powder
you can buy, and if you are just going to use it as is, I cannot see the need
to pretend it is some particular cannister powder.

Stay safe, good luck. Please be assured that my point is ONLY to help you
stay safe. Reusing the ammo in a safe way should be fine, and I am certainly one
to not waste valuable powder if I think there is a safe way to use it.

Bill

[ku4hx]

These cartridges were 'factory rejects' due to cosmetic issues

Cosmetic issues? Just shoot 'em. I've loaded and shot thousands of factory "blems". The bore got no idea the bullets are ugly.

[snuffy]

- From a factory A-MERC 30 carbine load.

That right there is all we needed to hear! A-MERC is awful ap-cray. The fact that the bullets were damaged while being seated is pretty much how all that crud looks.

While you have them pulled down, look to make sure there IS a flash hole, AND that it is centered. Not uncommon for them to have no primer flash hole. It is seldom centered as well.

I'd just shoot them, then leave the brass lay, or pick it up if you cash in your brass at a recycler. Do NOT try to reload them.

[tyeo098]

Well, 12.5gr of mystery powder under a 120gr cast boolit lubed w/ darr and GC'd

Shoots pretty well for my little blue!

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s249/tyeo098/20130802_230657_zps5d30f611.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/tyeo098/media/20130802_230657_zps5d30f611.jpg.html)