Need help with.45 COL, Hornady FTX (45ACP OEM Clone)

[sparkz]

Hi All, Hope this is close to where I should ask this question, so here goes...

Does anyone have a Hornady book for loading the FMJ-soft tipped (orange plastic tipped)
FTX handgun bullet? ( I have never loaded a plastic tipped bullet, so need to know plz)
I have and am loading a FTX 200gn bullet in .45ACP LPP brass, over 7.0gn VV 3N37
and COL is someplace in Cannula But lots of it to stop in?
what does Hornady say for a COL for this bullet?
and do you measure from the top of highest part of HP? ( plastic squeezes so has to be)
I was trying to load some close to OEM shells for my Colt and sorta got me stoped here
I also wanted to record and save this load for later so I can re-make it or re-work it later if i wanted to so any thing you can give would help
I know its some place in the Cannula but its an 1/8" wide! that's a lot of Maybe space for me...
I am Hitting like 1.255 Range?

Thanks for any and All Help

Patrick

[sparkz]

Humm Musta asked a real stupid question or a real good question er posted in wrong place,, lol
Just wanted to be sure tyhis was done as close to an oem as posb for the record/s

Patrick

[waksupi]

I would try one of the handgun areas of the forum.

[sparkz]

Okay thanks
for heads up
Patrick

[Jammersix]

And you might consider buying a reloading manual instead of asking for copyrighted material.

[sparkz]

I only asked for a COL for that Bullet? dont think its a CR thing just asked what someone might had seen never asked for a whole recipe? so don't think the CR people will knock on my door for it,, and as I needed only one item not worth buying a Hornady book for a COL, but thanks for your comments, have a nice day

Sparkz

[Duckiller]

Take the gun apart and take out the barrel. Drop bullets seated to various depths into the barrel. Find one that is right, similar to factory and measure it anyway you want. You will be able to supilcate it measured your way. Would also recommend SEVERAL current reloading manuals. They are a welth of information and several knowlwdgeable people have proof read them unlike info obtained off the internet.

[sparky45]

Duckiller has it about right concerning COL. I think various brands of barrels have different dimensions so you just have to "custom fit" the round to your barrel. Going a little longer with COL isn't a bad thing as long as the finished product will feed, not only into the magazine but also into the chamber. I love my .45ACP's.

[sparkz]

Thanks guys, Il do thAT, I can find nothing on this FTX at all, so I guess Hornady don't show it for pistols ether?
thought about looking at a critical defense load to get info, thats sorta what I want but there all loaded Plus-p and
my springs tuned for liter loads so those lock my slider,,, so wanted to load a lesser load is where i am tryin to go,,
but Il try the barrel deal thats most sound info i have gotten thanks again guys

Patrick

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

FTX handgun bullet? ( I have never loaded a plastic tipped bullet, so need to know plz)
I have and am loading a FTX 200gn bullet in .45ACP LPP brass, over 7.0gn VV 3N37

As I understand it, the FTX is designed for Rifles with tube Magazines. But I'm sure you can shoot 'em in a pistol also.

as to COL, I'd follow duckiller's advice:

Take the gun apart and take out the barrel. Drop bullets seated to various depths into the barrel. Find one that is right, similar to factory and measure it anyway you want. You will be able to supilcate it measured your way.

Good Luck,
Jon

[Jammersix]

I only asked for a COL for that Bullet? dont think its a CR thing just asked what someone might had seen never asked for a whole recipe? so don't think the CR people will knock on my door for it,, and as I needed only one item not worth buying a Hornady book for a COL, but thanks for your comments, have a nice day
As long as they don't catch you, huh?

Obviously, you don't live by the law unless it's convenient, and stealing doesn't bother you.

Noted.

[sparkz]

As long as they don't catch you, huh?

Obviously, you don't live by the law unless it's convenient, and stealing doesn't bother you.

Noted.

So its your belief that asking how someone is to find the COL of a New Bullet it some kind of theft?
re read and again I asked how others might find it or if the did have a CR book to see what COL was in it Theft is a stretch
I can see you must have some mood going from some of your other post,,
Look I am trying to find ONE Col for a bullet I will never buy and load again ONE COL that's it so I need to buy some company's book for a COL?
or to find from others what Methods thy might had used?
and you call me some knida crook?
man you don't even know me at all, But a Thief is quite a stretch

sorry for your need to comment
cant say something nice then don't say anything comes to mind,, but a Crook and to be called a thief for asking a COL
on a very funny seating bullet?
ok
have a nice day, please drive thu...

[sparky45]

You're way off base Jammer. Let it go.

[sparkz]

As I understand it, the FTX is designed for Rifles with tube Magazines. But I'm sure you can shoot 'em in a pistol also.

as to COL, I'd follow duckiller's advice:


Good Luck,
Jon

Jon there sold for the 45acp, that's where I had shot my first ones
(My Colt locks open with that load, don't want to change spring for one load)
but I understand you can only buy them 45acp +p and thats just too much for me,
they do a nice job on wood and on water filed milk bottles but again to much beef for me
so I wanted to tone down them and had wanted to load about 10 or so
but yes its foe a 45acp load as they sell that loaded critical defense at 200gn (what I have in hand)
just the COL and cannula seem super wide and lots of Guess room there

TIA for any help
Patrick

[Jammersix]

Copyright is copyright.

I respect it. If that's offbase, I'd move the bases if I were you.

But that's me, not you.

Obviously.

[sparky45]

I have no idea what you think is copyright. A COL ISN'T a copyright in and of itself. You have to stay out of those Mary Jane Bars bucko, at least until after you post here.
I think I will exercise my option to ignore you and your unimportant CR police jibber jabber.

[sparky45]

COPYRIGHT : It is a form of intellectual property (like the patent, the trademark, and the trade secret) applicable to any expressible form of an idea or information that is substantive and discrete.

Now, please tell me what is "substantive and discrete" about a COL? There's millions of them out there for the taking.

[220swiftfn]

The problem here is that the FTX is made for revolver and tube-fed rifles in .45 COLT, not .45ACP. That's why you're having trouble finding data....(and IIRC, in the .45 Colt you have to trim to below SAAMI specs.) I AM interested to know how the flex tip will play with the feed ramp (my money's on failure to feed due to stoppage on the ramp.....)


Dan

[sparkz]

the OEM Hornady FTX 200gn feed weel but a few times they would send slid back and it lock, those are an OEM load from hornady so they do load and feed in 45acp, just ones I could get where a Plus P load and I found those to hot for me so why I went looking for a lesser load for them

Patrick

[Jammersix]

Have a seat, Sparky. We get it-- you don't care about copyrights.

[Duckiller]

Went out in the middle of the night to check. Manuals that you purchase are all copyrighted. All the info in them is covered by the copyright. The two free manuals I checked,Accurate and Winchester were also copyrighted. An IMR manual invited everyone to use the info in the manual , but at your own risk. No indication that it was copyrighted. I have to agree with Jammersix all info published in manuals for sale are copyrighted and if you want that info buy the manual. Or at least give credit to the manual if you are writing something. Hornady will probably not sue Sparkz over use of copyrighted materal because he is using Hornady bullets. This does not give you the right to freely passout copyrighted material. If you piss off the wrong someone too much your shooting days may be over for a while. Not because you are in jail, but because every cent you have is going to fight the infringement suit and if you loose to pay off the publisher for his losses. Respect their copy right. If you need special info about a manufacture's product use the internet to ask them. They for the most part are more than happy to help you and may point out special problems that you never considered. Members on this board are very friendly and happy to share out knowledge, but we don't have the toys to determine a safe load like a manufacturer does. They have a customer service staff and these people need work. Ask them question!

[sparky45]

So, if someone, anyone who works up his OWN loads using a "manual" but changes the COL to fit his OWN application then shares HIS information with someone else is in violation of "copyright" law. I think not. If that were the case almost EVERY individual reloading his OWN ammo would need to be jailed. This entire disturbance created by Jammer is busy body nonsense. Especially since the OP was asking ONLY about a COL. Think about it a little while, more like a day or two for you Jammer, a COL is basically a "measurement only" and varies greatly not only by Ogive, but by the reloading process itself. I can set my reloader to give me a specific COL and load 100 rounds and while a majority of those reloads are exact, several vary by a few thousandths. I load to my guns based on material I have gleaned through the process of reading and "sharing" information with others, I bet almost everybody functions the same. BTW, when was the last copyright lawsuit concerning the COL of a reload? Also, why haven't websites that compile reload data, and there are quite a few, been sued for copyright infringement? What say you Jammer?

[sparky45]

Well guess what, I just found a Ruler, marked off in inches and in Centimeters. Billions of those out there, but this one by Westcott is patented. I think they aught to sue every maker of a reloading manual for copyright infringement for stealing their numbers. That would make about as much sense as suing over a COL.
Sorry about rambling on Sparkz, and I hope you found the information you were asking about. If I had a manual with that particular bullet(projectile) I would gladly share it with you.

[Jammersix]

We know, Sparky. You don't follow laws that are inconvenient unless you might get caught.

Copyrights exist automatically, whether or not they're claimed.

Respecting them is like driving the speed limit when no one is looking.

Breaking them is stealing, but I'll concede that it doesn't really hurt anything but your honor.

[jcameron996]

Unsure why we need all the drama over a simple measurement that in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean all that much. I would suggest loading some test rounds and function test in your pistol and work up until you get the performance and function that you desire. Another option would be to buy a box of the critical defense loads that you spoke of and measure a loaded round. I don't think there would be any copyright infringement in measuring a round of ammo that you have paid for out of your own pocket. I think they only come in boxes of 20 rounds so you could shoot a few to compare with your loads or just trade them to a buddy.

[sparky45]

Too simple for Jammers thought processes. Your suggestions 996 are right on target and have been suggested. I only took exception to Jammers notion of "police state" ethos.

[Jammersix]

It's not a police state. No one here can make you do anything, or do anything about your choices.

What you do when no one is watching is between you and you.

I'm simply pointing them out, and highlighting the fact that, according to your own words, you have a rather casual relationship with honesty, and pointing out that some of the things you're willing to do are beneath me.

[sparky45]

Well the last thing I have to say is that you don't know me or anything about me. While I know you are a Left coast wingnut that's trying to prove something to yourself. I can't recall in any of my posts stating that I have a casual relationship with honesty. I have nothing to prove to you or clarify for you and I can state with certainty you have nothing to offer to me. All you want to do is argue a non sequitur and nobody has the time for that, except Democrats.

[Duckiller]

Sparky45; Yes we do know things about. You are a not too bright person that has no understanding of copyright law or stealing other peoples work. You a a little bit bigotted too. I worked with a gentleman from Kansas. He is extremely honest. He probably left Kansas to get away from people like you.

[220swiftfn]

Have a seat, Sparky. We get it-- you don't care about copyrights.

Give it a rest, all of the powder manufacturers have data online, INCLUDING the OAL tested, as do MANY component manufacturers, and those that don't will release that information to anyone that calls.......



Dan

[Jammersix]

Then that's where he should go.

That's up to them, not us.

All we know about you is what you've told us, Sparky, and so far all that has been is that you don't respect copyrights, and that you base your honor decisions on whether or not you'll get caught.

[sparky45]

Give it a rest, all of the powder manufacturers have data online, INCLUDING the OAL tested, as do MANY component manufacturers, and those that don't will release that information to anyone that calls.......



Dan

Big ditto Dan, I'm glad someone understands. This is about as far from a copyright infringement as anything can be. Seriously, it's just a COL, not the works of Shakespeare.

[Jammersix]

We know, Sparky, we know. The size of the bank determines whether or not it's robbery.

[country gent]

If you have a any of these factory loads measure them for overall length and duplicate it. Powder charge is what dictates power level. Test for fit function in the barrel when removed. Simple care measuring the factory overall length and your hand loaded rounds should put you with in a couple thousandths of an inch. While a reloading manual isnt needed for this and costs a little, The added information provided in How to, What, Why, and SAFE starting charges is worth the money. Last I checked a one caliber manual ( has almost all the data from manufacturers, powder, bullet, lymann rcbs) was less than $15.00. Any info over the internet is suspect till confirmed with books or manufacturers sites. Go to Hornadys loading site and see if they give any information maybe? OAL does affect pressure and a max load with to short oal becomes an overload

[MT Chambers]

Taut dis was a cast boolit sight?

[PS Paul]

Is the heat wave already causing folks to bristle a bit?

[BD]

The short answer is that the COAL is going to land between 1.255 and 1.275, whatever works best in your pistol. I would avoid the factory cannelure to get a proper taper crimp on the full diameter shank of the bullet. I don't have the latest Hornady manual, and am not quoting it. I've shot hundreds of the FTX bullets in the .450 Bushmaster but it never occurred to me to try them in the .45 acp due to the cost.

In my opinion you guys who have your panties in a twist regarding the quoting of copy written information are so far off base that you're not playing on the same ball field as the rest of the world. I see no problem at all with properly attributed quotes of written information that has been previously published for public consumption. Read any newspaper and you could find 100 examples daily. As far as I know there is absolutely no legal issue with, "According to my Hornady manual the coal for that bullet is 1.275". Ever heard of footnotes? They are just a convenient way of providing proper attribution without disrupting the flow of the text. Virtually every scholarly article, and every textbook ever written, quotes copy written material using footnotes.
BD

[sparky45]

Welcome to the discussion BD, you will no doubt be labeled a dishonest person like I and the OP. BTW, thanks for the COL information.

[markinalpine]

Thanks to those who mentioned the ignore function. Never really felt a need to use it before. It's like MAGIC!
Anyway, I'd recommend making up a few dummy rounds using this bullet in your .45 ACP brass to see what feeds, fits, chambers, and ejects. Remove the recoil spring and hand cycle the slide.
Mark [smilie=s:

[sparkz]

Wow,, Never thought My question was a touchiness topic,,,
anyways back to the topic
I have a ( warning copyright infringement coming with names)
Hornady XTP 230Gn
and a
Hornady FTX 200Gn
here and look almost same in height and size..

and Yes Hornady did sell a loaded Critical Defense for the .45acp
(I had shot them and those got me wanting to make a round of lesser recoil as the round as OEM was only a Plus-P
(read +p on brass, thats the nickle plated brass i had planed to use for this one)
the Plus-p is a bit much for my Colt 1911 Combat Commander in that it's got a bit liter spring that the recoil would send slid back and fall to lock,,
Hence why to lessen the charge a bit for me and my gun's set-up.

Ok
I have a buddy how has a OEM loaded by Hornady FTX and I will compare to my load
I plan to use a dummy load for a good sensible COL that works in my gun (would like to also work in others also that why i was going to 1.25 or so a known working area
that don't compress a powder charge.
wanted to use a very clean powder (VV 3N37) but rethinking Il work more on that choice
Il start at a load on low end for the Hornady XTP as those charges are known not to be compressed
and known to get me to a starting safer area,
I am looking at pressures with caution tho

Now I will acknowledge why hornady round is not so popular, and would be apparently TOP Secrete and for eyes Only
posb a feed prob, but if the tips a prob (and they did sell a 185 & 200gn for sure, or as far as i know so far,
Il trim it up or off, )

It's not my intention to Piss Off anybody or whatever has happened here, I was just trying to tailor a round I liked ti my gun and in truth have many NEW manuals from Powder company's and from bullet Company's as wel as general loading manuals all upto date and of the Newest printings
the Afor mentioned Hornady Book I do not have and I do not load so many Hornady bullets that I plan to buy one for One (1) COL
(Tho I reserve express right to Buy One at a later date if my needs and or wants change)
that can be found with the fine methods and Ideas some of the Guys here have given me and I thank all of you guys for helping me recall those methods
I am not now nor ever been a Crook, Thief, ner-do-well, or any sort like that, not even ever called one, I am sorry if "some of you thought I came off as one"
Parish the thought, I guess I am more Accelerateley "The Legendary First Kid On The Block"
to ask for a COL from a Bullet Vendor that has Hard-core following of bullet Police on the internet
you would think Hornady would want a guy to give a good review on there lesser loaded bullet so "The Legendary Second Kid On The Block"
Might Buy there Products,
As I had been working On My, READ "Own Load not a CR or patented Loaded shell"

In any event
I Will
1) Make up a Dummy Load for a sound COL
2) start from Published XTP info (lowest charges, avoiding any chances of compressed loads)
3) Hand feel load thu the 1911 and then fix or address any issues
4) Take the Good from this Thread and let the Foulness roll off
5) Thank those who have helped me with good sound advice and genuine concerns
6) Apologize to the Hornady Police for getting to close to a Felony Offense, or Getting to close to the Fence.
7) Apologize to the CastBoolits Forum Members, Staff, and Mods. and anyone else if I have started a $hit Storm for stepping out of line
(It was an Innocent question and Honest no harm / Theft was inferred)


Patrick
Lost Creek, Kentucky

[220swiftfn]

Wow,, Never thought My question was a touchiness topic,,,
anyways back to the topic
I have a ( warning copyright infringement coming with names)
Hornady XTP 230Gn
and a
Hornady FTX 200Gn
here and look almost same in height and size..

and Yes Hornady did sell a loaded Critical Defense for the .45acp
(I had shot them and those got me wanting to make a round of lesser recoil as the round as OEM was only a Plus-P
(read +p on brass, thats the nickle plated brass i had planed to use for this one)
the Plus-p is a bit much for my Colt 1911 Combat Commander in that it's got a bit liter spring that the recoil would send slid back and fall to lock,,
Hence why to lessen the charge a bit for me and my gun's set-up.

Ok
I have a buddy how has a OEM loaded by Hornady FTX and I will compare to my load
I plan to use a dummy load for a good sensible COL that works in my gun (would like to also work in others also that why i was going to 1.25 or so a known working area
that don't compress a powder charge.
wanted to use a very clean powder (VV 3N37) but rethinking Il work more on that choice
Il start at a load on low end for the Hornady XTP as those charges are known not to be compressed
and known to get me to a starting safer area,
I am looking at pressures with caution tho

Now I will acknowledge why hornady round is not so popular, and would be apparently TOP Secrete and for eyes Only
posb a feed prob, but if the tips a prob (and they did sell a 185 & 200gn for sure, or as far as i know so far,
Il trim it up or off, )

It's not my intention to Piss Off anybody or whatever has happened here, I was just trying to tailor a round I liked ti my gun and in truth have many NEW manuals from Powder company's and from bullet Company's as wel as general loading manuals all upto date and of the Newest printings
the Afor mentioned Hornady Book I do not have and I do not load so many Hornady bullets that I plan to buy one for One (1) COL
(Tho I reserve express right to Buy One at a later date if my needs and or wants change)
that can be found with the fine methods and Ideas some of the Guys here have given me and I thank all of you guys for helping me recall those methods
I am not now nor ever been a Crook, Thief, ner-do-well, or any sort like that, not even ever called one, I am sorry if "some of you thought I came off as one"
Parish the thought, I guess I am more Accelerateley "The Legendary First Kid On The Block"
to ask for a COL from a Bullet Vendor that has Hard-core following of bullet Police on the internet
you would think Hornady would want a guy to give a good review on there lesser loaded bullet so "The Legendary Second Kid On The Block"
Might Buy there Products,
As I had been working On My, READ "Own Load not a CR or patented Loaded shell"

In any event
I Will
1) Make up a Dummy Load for a sound COL
2) start from Published XTP info (lowest charges, avoiding any chances of compressed loads)
3) Hand feel load thu the 1911 and then fix or address any issues
4) Take the Good from this Thread and let the Foulness roll off
5) Thank those who have helped me with good sound advice and genuine concerns
6) Apologize to the Hornady Police for getting to close to a Felony Offense, or Getting to close to the Fence.
7) Apologize to the CastBoolits Forum Members, Staff, and Mods. and anyone else if I have started a $hit Storm for stepping out of line
(It was an Innocent question and Honest no harm / Theft was inferred)


Patrick
Lost Creek, Kentucky


Ok, after my initial post I went looking, and I have to admit, I believed that you were talking about the "FTX" that is a full spitzer design as loaded in the "Leverevolution" line..... My bad. That being said, if you're talking about the projectile type found in the "Duty", "Critical Defense", or "Zombie Max" lines, XTP data should get you close. That being said, there's nothing wrong with the XTP's, the only criticism that I'm aware of is that they're better suited to a hunting bullet (slower expansion and greater penetration than other "defensive" rounds). Also of note is that the expansion window of the .451 230 gr. XTP is a little too high for standard .45 ACP velocities (this is why it's only offered in +p factory loads, standard pressure loads stop at 200 grs.)


Dan