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View Full Version : most accurate .35 wadcutter??



mainiac
06-22-2013, 09:19 PM
Im just now gonna revisit the 38 special,cause i found a 8.375 inch model 14.Think i will have some fun!!

Anyways, was wondering what peoples opinion is on the most accurate wadcutter for the 38? Lyman makes many shapes and weights.Why did they make so many? I have a 358091,,how does this rate amongest the herd?

Also have a 35887,,that weighs around 120 grs,compared to the 091 that weighs 146,,,,will this lighter weight boolit shoot as good as the heavy one??

I realize that all guns are different,but am just wondering about this subject.Im thinking about buying a 4-5 cavity to use instead of the 2 hole 091. Looking for opinions on which one to buy..

Mk42gunner
06-22-2013, 09:43 PM
There is an article comparing several wadcutters on either the lasc website or castpics, I can't remember which.

As to why so many designs? People have been having different ideas about projectiles since man flung the first rock.

Robert

MarkP
06-22-2013, 09:44 PM
My M 14 8-3/8" even shoots the short 77 gr WC well at 25 yds. I would try the molds you have. Mine has shot just about everything with decent accuracy (usually under 2.5 to 3" @ 25 yds). I tried the LEE 148 tumble lubes that I found in an old pickle jar, I had casted and lubed them up years ago and they shot little knot holes. The LEE 105 SWC did shoot noticeably worse than others I have tried, not real bad just not as well as the others I tried. The NOE 360 - 180 WFN HP's shot into 4" groups at 80 yds.

fecmech
06-23-2013, 10:07 AM
The H&G # 50 has an excellent reputation. A few years ago bench testing with a dot sight at 50 yds I shot the H&G 50 against the Rem HB wc's from my K-38. The average for 6 six shot groups with the Remington HB wc's was 2" even. The H&G #50 six group average was 2.5". That is still well inside the 10 ring on a 50 yd bullseye target. At my current skill level the H&G bullet would never cost me any points!

jdgabbard
06-23-2013, 10:10 AM
^^^

The H&G 50 / Lyman 358495 is the grandaddy of them all. People say only lube one groove. Hell, I've never found a load that doesn't shoot well with that boolit.

mainiac
06-23-2013, 11:20 AM
Does one of the custom makers,currently make the 50 h&g copy?? Sounds like what i want......

P.S. shot the 358091 today,,numerous 1.5 inch groups@25 yards,,so the potential is there,i think.

fecmech
06-23-2013, 11:55 AM
oes one of the custom makers,currently make the 50 h&g copy?? Sounds like what i want......

There are a lot of those H&G molds in that design out there and come up on E bay quite often. They are so common that prices are not too bad usually. I'm sure Accurate could make one for you if you decided to go that route.

mdi
06-23-2013, 12:51 PM
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_11_Wadcutter.htm a long article about wadcutters, history and use. The 358091 should be a good choice; plain base with a crimp groove. I would start with this bullet, cast in wheel weight/pure (50/50), alloy with light charges of Bullseye or W231. 148-150 grain is the classic weight for wadcutters in .38 Special and some shooters got amazingly small groups with a revolver and this bullet.

Hardcast416taylor
06-23-2013, 01:36 PM
Back in my competition days of PPC shooting I used a M 14 that I was the 3rd owner of. I was told to cast and use #358495 WC bullets cast with straight WW alloy. The powder was use either HP-38 or Win. 231. Federal std. primers ingited the load. I used over 3 of the 8 lb. jugs of the powders over the years. The M 14 was more accurate than I was, but we still landed a few trophies in shoots. I tried putting lube in just the bottom groove and in both grooves below the crimp groove, couldn`t really tell a difference with my 3.5 gr. loads. The bullets were all sized .358". I tried cutting the WW alloy to 50/50 for awhile and again with that mold couldn`t really see any difference in accuracy out to 25 yds., my personal limit of range for it.Robert

captaint
06-23-2013, 01:49 PM
I read an article a while back, written at least 20 years ago - a wadcutter test. They shot the H&G 50 the Lyman 35891 an RCBS WC and a Lee 145 or 150 gr WC. Regular lube groove. I think they used 3 or 4 different revolvers. All good ones. Believe it or not, the Lee proved to be the most accurate, not by much, but the best just the same. I was surprised. I have a H&G 50 (they are reasonable, price wise) and the Lyman 35891. Can't tell any difference. Safe to say they both shoot better than me..... Mike

mainiac
06-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Just got done shooting it today,and the 358091 and warm/max loads of tight-group and bullseye,easily shoots 1.5 inch@25 yards. The 2.5-2.7 gr. loads would shoot VERY tight,but throw 1 flier out of every group. This aint the first time ive noticed this.

Shiloh
06-23-2013, 05:54 PM
Lyman 35891 is best. The LEE clone works great as well. the LEE TL WC is a close third.

Shiloh

uscra112
06-24-2013, 06:21 AM
My experience is nothing like others on this forum, but I'll suggest that the best wadcutter is the one that is loaded in the right brass, which has been sized and expanded correctly so that it does no harm to the boolit when you seat it that deep. Learned that lesson by myself, no-one else to blame for weeks of lousy results.

dubber123
06-24-2013, 06:29 AM
A few years ago I did a bunch of testing at 50 yds. with a 6" M14, (I have a scoped 8-3/8 too, but the 6" shoots better). I tested many WC designs, including the "091" Lyman, the H&G # 50, The LEE standard groove, etc. There was little to no difference at 50 yds. The BRP designed 150 Gr. RF outshot them all by a noticeable margin, so that is what is used now. As range increases, the wadcutters begin to lose out to other designs in my opinion.

Porterhouse
06-24-2013, 07:45 AM
dubber123,
What is BRP designed 150gr RF?

fecmech
06-24-2013, 10:37 AM
The BRP designed 150 Gr. RF outshot them all by a noticeable margin, so that is what is used now.
Contrary to what many think, my experience is that wadcutters are NOT the most accurate bullet design. Both the H&G #39 158 RN and better yet the Lee or RCBS 120 Truncated cone designs will out shoot wadcutters all day long. All three of those bullets are <2"@50yds. Back a year or two ago I posted 3 six shot 100 yd. groups from my benched Model 14 that averaged 3 inches!

dubber123
06-24-2013, 05:00 PM
dubber123,
What is BRP designed 150gr RF?

BRP was a mold manufacturer that we were graced with until about a year ago. His 150 RF was a Round/Flat design, with a single lube groove. Mine is the plain base version. He recommended it to me as a very accurate design, and he didn't lie. I shot MANY boolit designs, including 5 or 6 wadcutter designs. The wadcutters averaged just about 3" at 50 yds for me, with iron sights. The BRP shot sub 2" groups on the first day tinkering with it. I managed to get 5 into less than an inch at 50 METERS one day, with 4 witnesses. Of course #6 blew it to 1.3". I still saved that one :wink:

BABore
06-24-2013, 05:30 PM
Dubber,

I think your talking about my 360640 PB. While Accurate Molds could get it close, they can't currently match the lube groove depth or relief angle. Both of which would upset the balance and likely the accuracy. I know that Mihec made a couple runs of this design for 45 2.1.

mainiac
06-24-2013, 08:46 PM
Contrary to what many think, my experience is that wadcutters are NOT the most accurate bullet design. Both the H&G #39 158 RN and better yet the Lee or RCBS 120 Truncated cone designs will out shoot wadcutters all day long. All three of those bullets are <2"@50yds. Back a year or two ago I posted 3 six shot 100 yd. groups from my benched Model 14 that averaged 3 inches!

I was shooting the 358429 today,in the 14,,,,that boolit shoots super,i think better then the wadcutters,like youve mentioned.Only trouble is, that heavy boolit shoots 5 inches high@25 yards,with the rear sight all the way down.Wish i had a taller front.........

Porterhouse
06-24-2013, 09:27 PM
mainiac,
You can also replace your rear sight blade with shorter one. Check with S&W. I'm sure they offer short blade something like 0.126".

dubber123,
Thanks for the info. I have got to get that mold! I've been searching for accurate boolits design for 38spl. for fun shooting. Kinda like bigger brother to .22. But like you said, I couldn't get better than 3" or so at 50yds with WC out of my S&W M27.
So BABore, is this one of your design that is no longer availabel? Should I check with Miha?

mainiac
06-24-2013, 09:36 PM
mainiac,
You can also replace your rear sight blade with shorter one. Check with S&W. I'm sure they offer short blade something like 0.126".

dubber123,
Thanks for the info. I have got to get that mold! I've been searching for accurate boolits design for 38spl. for fun shooting. Kinda like bigger brother to .22. But like you said, I couldn't get better than 3" or so at 50yds with WC out of my S&W M27.
So BABore, is this one of your design that is no longer availabel? Should I check with Miha?

thanks,,ill check tis out.

StrawHat
06-25-2013, 06:47 AM
For years, I fed a PPC competition addiction with boolits cast from two, double cavity, Lee molds, both 150 WC. They kept me in the top of my class. I had been using the cast for practice and store boughts for competition until I noticed my scores were the same. Since then, I have found they are still accurate out of my revolver but have gone up in caliber for most of my shooting.

I also found a load using the Lyman 358156 that was just as accurate but at higher velocity, read the articles by Skeeter Skelton. Not sure I'd use or recommend them in a S&W M14.

dubber123
06-25-2013, 06:52 AM
Dubber,

I think your talking about my 360640 PB. While Accurate Molds could get it close, they can't currently match the lube groove depth or relief angle. Both of which would upset the balance and likely the accuracy. I know that Mihec made a couple runs of this design for 45 2.1.

That would be the one.. :) Nothing like asking the man who made it to get the correct information.. That is the best shooting .38 boolit I have tried, and I have tried many.