Hogdon HP-38 for 40 SW

[gimling]

Ok I cast up a bunch of lee semi wadcutters 175gr, they are all weighing out at 183 gr. there powder coated and im ready to go. Does anyone have a Good starting Load for hogdon HP-38?? Closest Load data I could find was 180 gr. hornady XTP at 5gr.

[ku4hx]

If you believe internet hype, HP-38 and W231 are the same powder. That being the case, there is load data out there for cast boolits and 231. Lyman lists a starting charge of 231 of 4.3/4.8 grains and a max charge of 5.5/5.8 respectively for two 175 grain cast boolits. That's on page 170 of their Third Edition Pistol and Revolver Handbook.

I'm NOT advising you to load HP-38 as if it were W231, just giving you additional information I've seen over the years that may lead you to specific data. I would use the starting charge of HP-38 for 180 grain jacketed with 183 grain cast, but not everybody is willing to go that route.

What are you meaning by powder coated?

[gimling]

after casting them, I powdercoated them with a powdercoating machine and baked them, then sized, and weighed.

[awhiteha]

Just wondering... why?

[dragon813gt]

If you believe internet hype, HP-38 and W231 are the same powder.

Call Hodgdon and ask them yourself. Current production is the same powder. And it has been for some time. Now if you have some really old canisters they are different. It's not Internet hype.

[jonp]

If you believe internet hype, HP-38 and W231 are the same powder. That being the case, there is load data out there for cast boolits and 231. Lyman lists a starting charge of 231 of 4.3/4.8 grains and a max charge of 5.5/5.8 respectively for two 175 grain cast boolits. That's on page 170 of their Third Edition Pistol and Revolver Handbook.

I'm NOT advising you to load HP-38 as if it were W231, just giving you additional information I've seen over the years that may lead you to specific data. I would use the starting charge of HP-38 for 180 grain jacketed with 183 grain cast, but not everybody is willing to go that route.

What are you meaning by powder coated?

This is not hype. H110 and W296 are identical also. You can find this info on this forum by typing in a search.

[gimling]

Just wondering... why?

Well this has become my hobby and im enjoying all aspects of reloading, but im not willing to pay for overpriced items so I have a lot of free time in between sessions. Also you don't have to lube prior to sizing and you can shoot more before needing to clean your barrel. (though I clean mine after every trip to the range). here is a link if you want to explore.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171403-Powder-Coating-Boolits&highlight=powder+coat

[awhiteha]

Thanks... I never heard of powder coating lead. I am adding to the gray matter mush. Thx!

[steve4102]

If you believe internet hype, HP-38 and W231 are the same powder.

I'm NOT advising you to load HP-38 as if it were W231, just giving you additional information I've seen over the years that may lead you to specific data.

Here is a number to call so you can avoid the "internet hype" and get it straight from the horse's mouth that Hp-38 and 231 are indeed the exact same powder.
913-362-9455

[awhiteha]

Thx, now I will have to spend some moolah for powder coating set-up.

[fcvan]

Powder coating boolits has a long thread in the boolit lube section. I started coating boolits and they work great. The Lee 401-175 TC mold I have drops closer to 180 grains for me and powder coating doesn't add much more weight. The flat black boolit looks awesome in a brightly polished brass case.

[ku4hx]

Call Hodgdon and ask them yourself. Current production is the same powder. And it has been for some time. Now if you have some really old canisters they are different. It's not Internet hype.

Why? I don't use either. But being I don't use either, I felt the need to basically say. "I've read". But then we all know what's on the internet in every forum is always the truth anyway right? As the male French model said to the woman, "Bonjour".

[dragon813gt]

Then why say anything if you don't use it or don't know about it? The number has been posted to call and ask them yourself. If you don't call it to find out then I wouldn't post anything about it in the future.

[jonp]

I just bought some W296. My preference has always been H110 but the 296 was cheaper so got that instead and I expect to be just as pleased.

never believe "internet hype" with powder. Just ask the manufacturers. They are always happy to answer all questions. I did this when thinking of swapping Promo for Red Dot as the Promo was in stock and cheaper to boot. Also in the burn rate of 20/28 and 410.

[steve4102]

Then why say anything if you don't use it or don't know about it? The number has been posted to call and ask them yourself. If you don't call it to find out then I wouldn't post anything about it in the future.

^^^^ This^^^^

[BattleRife]

Then why say anything if you don't use it or don't know about it? The number has been posted to call and ask them yourself. If you don't call it to find out then I wouldn't post anything about it in the future.

Why so hard on the guy? He contributed to the thread with some knowledge he had. He had reason to doubt the veracity of his info, but he wasn't going to research it rigourously because he had no personal stake in it. So he put a disclaimer on the knowledge he offered. Strikes me as perfectly reasonable.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you go to Hodgdons,,, IE; call them,,, you will find that they have many powders that are identical to Winchester Powders.

There is a really good reason for this...

They make Winchester Powder!

Here's some common ones. H110 and W296 have ALWAYS been the same. HP-38 and W231 have ALWAYS been the same. BLC2 and W748 have ALWAYS been the same. and there are several others as well.

It slays me when gun writers print different results for H110 and W296 from the same gun. The only posssible difference there could be is the two powders, or for that matter one powder is from different batches. Even so any differences are miniscule. They have to be or else people would blow themselves up by using available data.

Some surplus powders are also the same as some commercial for the exact same reason. WC846 is BLC-2 WC844 is one of Hodgdons powders as well but I can't remember exactly which one it is, either H322 or H335.

Like the man said above if you want the strait poop then call the MFG. direct. 913-362-9455

I've done it myself several times. They don't bite, but Dumb-*** will will bite you!

Randy

[popper]

gimling - 4.5 - 5 of HP38 works fine with that boolit, PCd, both my 40s.

[EddieNFL]

They make Winchester Powder!

They also own IMR and Goex. IIRC, some of their powders are imported. Australia, I think.

[Nickle]

BLC2 and W748 have ALWAYS been the same.

I don't think this is true.

According to the book Propellant Profiles, WC-748 is 748, WC-846 is BL-C 2 and WC-844 is H335.

Now, 748 and BL-C 2 are real close in burn rate, and sometimes the data is going to be real close, but I wouldn't consider them the same.

Reference is Propellant Profiles, 3rd Edition, page 102.

H335 - WC-844 - RQ (relative quickness) 101

BL-C(2) - WC-846 - RQ 100

H380 - WC-852 - RQ 99

**** - WC-748 - RQ 98

H414 - WC-760 -RQ 95

H450 - WC-785 - RQ 92

Now, I always thought WC-852 was slower than that. But, everything this reference has said has been spot on so far.

As to whether BL-C(2) is WC-748 or not is essentially moot, because there's plenty of data out there for each one anyways. And, I've studied this to some depth, the data is different between the two, but close at times.

So, it doesn't make much sense to interchange the data on these two, even though they're close. I have no doubt you could get away with it on moderate loads, but I don't think you totally can with max loads.

Why I checked is simple. I use BL-C(2), 748, 846, 844, H414, 760 and 785. So, I've had a vested interest in checking it out.

[Lizard333]

Ok I cast up a bunch of lee semi wadcutters 175gr, they are all weighing out at 183 gr. there powder coated and im ready to go. Does anyone have a Good starting Load for hogdon HP-38?? Closest Load data I could find was 180 gr. hornady XTP at 5gr.

I am using 5.0 gns of 231/HP38 in me beretta 96 with great accuracy and feed great.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have "Propellant Profiles" also, and where as it is a good reference, in this particular instance my information directly from Chris Hodgdon's mouth last week. I don't expect anyone to take this as gospel. Call them and find out for yourself. Then Write it Down!

If you get information from a reliable source like the company, you need to write down exactly what the guy says for future reference.

People have a way of MUTATING what others say just the same way as we did when we were kids playing the game "Telegraph", where a word or phrase is dictated at the front of the line and becomes something entirely different as it is passed down the line.

This is what Written Data is designed to combat. Most people don't understand half of what you say, and the rest don't understand any of what you say. Look how well spin works for politicians.

I called them to check on another matter and we got to talking about interchangable powders.

I was told and I quote,,,"The reason why some data will be slightly different is because different lots of the same powder will produce slightly different results since they never can be EXACTLY the same mixture. There are tolerances they must live within, but never are they EXACTLY the same."

This is why they have serious labratories to continually check the results, and maintain the highest Quality Control they can.

It used to be that Winchester powder and Hodgdon's powder came in different containers. Now the only difference is the label on the containers.

Every one who has been doing this for along time knows about H110 and W296, and HP 38 and W231, these have always been the same and it has been widely publicized.

The W748 to BLC 2 was news to me.

AS far as the Govt surplus designations they need to be written down because I can't keep them strait. And this brings up another point. Published written data is the way that people should be working up loads. Not by using word of mouth or for that matter even "internet" data. I'm talking brand name loading manuals like Lyman 49 or publications directly from powder companies. Most of these publications are available from the companies themselves for free.

This is also the reason you need several manuals and not rely on only one source. If data in manual doesn't agree with another manual by a significant margin (IE:+/- a few %) there may be a problem with a typo or other printing or editing mistakes. At that point you need to dig deeper and find out which is true and make note of the correction.

Still, a recent article in Handloader quoted different velocities and accuracy from two identical loads of W296 and H110,, Go figure.

The only two explainations for this can be true. Either bad recording of the data or different lots of powder.

I encourage everyone who reads this thread to do their homework. Research several manuals when working up loads, and read and understand what is written. With a technical subject like reloading you WILL need to read and re-read the material several times thru to fully understand the topic. NOBODY gets it all the first time!

Randy

[bangerjim]

Thx, now I will have to spend some moolah for powder coating set-up.

Get your gun at Harbor Freight $59.......and use the ever-availalbe 20% coupon. They sell black, red, yellow, and white powders at a very good price. Most PC guys here are using them with great success, as am I. Eliminates the need to lube and looks really cool. No more sticks of lube, lubrisizer expenses, LLA, waiting 24 hours for the stuff to dry, pan lubing mess, etc. PC takes a very short time.

Read the very long thread mentined and try it!

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

[Nickle]

Randy, that's a good piece of information to know, and something I've suspected for a long time now anyways. I use BL-C(2), WW-748 and WC-846 already anyways.

As to what's out there, you're not lying. Even the manuals get it wrong sometimes. I've long been told that H380/WC-852 was real slow, almost in the 4831 range. Then some facts came out and blew that one away. Of course, I always was suspicious, as it was an indicated powder for 30-06 M2 Ball ammo, and that had to be usable in the Garand, which doesn't like slow powders (it's a port pressure thing).

So, the new info makes perfect sense. Doesn't change the load data, but it does change the powder selection process some.