.223 Issues

[GR Pitts]

It's been years since I reloaded .223 as it used to be as cheap to buy as to reload. Times change. Decided I'd reload some but I am running into an issue when I attempt to crimp cases, and that is the die pushes the neck back into the case a bit & deforms it. Had the same issue years ago. I was loading up some dummy rounds to get the dies set when I ran into the issue.

Attached is an image of it. Sorry it's a bit blurred but you can see the issue.

If I back it off and don't crimp, I have no problems.

73950

[Zymurgy50]

You re trying to crimp too much, back off the seating die about 3 full turns, and start another case.
Use a magnifying glass if your eyes are as old as mine to see how much crimp you have and work the die down about a quarter turn at a time.

[Jupiter7]

That or crimp with a separate die. Lee FCD is cheap and collet crimp works like a charm.

[blikseme300]

Get and use the Lee FCD. Roll crimping rifle brass is a hit and miss affair but the FCD works all the time.

[GR Pitts]

Thanks gents. I'll check the FCD out.

[1500FPS]

When using the built in roll crimp that is in the seater die it is very important that all the cases are trimmed to the same exact length. After that you can adjust die and have no further problem. Now when you get more experience you can crimp by feel. This takes some time to master, but it works. I've gone a lot of years with the built in roll crimp. Yes I buckled necks until I learned what the problem was.

[Hickory]

I have a Redding S die with the removal necksizing bushing.
I just remove the bushing and run it threw the die again.
Best solution I've found for a collapse shoulder.

[Lloyd Smale]

Why do you feel its nessisary to even crimp them? I shoot thousands of 223 reloads every year out of my ars and dont crimp and have never had a single problem with them.

[nhrifle]

The Lee Factory Crimp die will allow you to crimp the neck without buckling the shoulder. Four seasons of shooting NRA High Power and all the experimentation that went with it led me to stop crimping. Factory ammo is made to survive any conditions it may face, and it does that quite well. However, it is not necessary. When I stopped crimping my groups shrank and I could consistently dope my sights for conditions of the day's shoot. I never had one of the many thousands of rounds I fired in practice or competition push the bullet into the case.

Loading the .223 is as straightforward as they come. Standard primers, powder near the burn rate of Varget, deburr case necks, and seat the bullet to 2.250".

[snuffy]

IF you have sufficient neck tension, there's no need to crimp them. Pic is too blurry to see if there's a cannelure on that jaxketed bullet, if there is no cannelure, you're not going to be able to roll crimp at all.

The lee FCD would work on any bullet. It's not even dependent on exact case length, as long as it isn't way too long or too short.

I've NEVER crimped any .223 loads, ever. No need for it if your sizer die is working right, and the expander button is the right size. Result; you have enough bullet pull/case neck tension to allow for no crimp.

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned the Lee FCD works best as a seperate crimper. Also the use of the RCBS X-die (regular as the "AR" and "SB) will prevent case stretch/lengthening during sizing. The cases will, after a couple sizings all be very close to the same length and you won't have to trim them at all.

Some bullets with some ARs or other gas guns do require crimping but you might try not crimpimng and see if they function and don't set back during feeding before deciding to crimp.

Larry Gibson

[EMC45]

Why do you feel its nessisary to even crimp them? I shoot thousands of 223 reloads every year out of my ars and dont crimp and have never had a single problem with them.

Me either.

[Nickle]

Some lessons I've learned with calibers like the 223, and especially the 223.

No cannelure? Don't crimp.

Got a cannelure? Then crimping is usually optional. I say usually because some calibers will give you trouble if you don't, and you have enough cartridges in the mag. If you have only 5 or so, I've yet to see a problem with not crimping.

Make sure your cases are all trimmed to the same length. A long case will get a heavy crimp if you don't.

Now, make sure you have enough neck tension to adequately hold the bullet. Once you have that, you can crimp if needed. Always crimp as a distinctly separate step, never when you seat the bullet, even if you are using the same die. And, on modern rifle cartridges (like the 223), only use a mild crimp. This particular caliber needs only a very mild crimp, at most.

My thoughts on what happened to the OP?

He may have crimped at the same time he seated the bullet. It can do exactly that.

He may have used too heavy of a crimp. It will do exactly that.

He could have gotten a slightly longer case in the batch. It will do exactly that.

[Nickle]

Oh, FWIW, I do not crimp when loading for an accurate bolt gun. First off, there's no need to. Secondly, it tends to hinder accuracy.

If you think that's wrong, then tell me why there isn't a cannelure on Sierra Match Kings, or any real good custom made match bullet. I used to compete in bench rest, and have shot and seen some mighty small groups. I even know a record holder or two, and some pretty decent folks. I haven't seen one yet that even considered crimping match ammo.

[GR Pitts]

Thanks for all the input; some very good points. I shoot a Ruger Mini 14 exclusively for .223. Have run into another issue that really has me confused. Never, in 40 years of reloading have I had this issue. Seating primers in the brass the are not seating flush. They are seating 1/1000 of an inch above the case head & I am at a complete loss as to why. I ream the primer pocket & clean it well & am using a Lee auto primer to seat. Use the same auto prime on all my reloads & no issue.

Thought it might be the brass but have loaded several different brass brands, including RP, & same issue. This really has me concerned.

Anyone else run into this? Reason? Cure?

[billyb]

I use a primer pocket uniformer as a primer pocket cleaner. It serves double duty of cleaning and cutting all of the pockets to the same depth. I used one of my cases that had a good pocket and set the cutter to that depth. Hope I made that clear. Bill

[GR Pitts]

What brand are you using? The one's I'm seeing are pre-set.

[Larry Gibson]

GR

Any relation to Earl Pitts?

:grin:

Larry Gibson

[GR Pitts]

Good old Brother Earl in Gunsmoke, Texas! LOL Used to listen to him daily years ago.

Back to .223; I was wondering if anyone might share their favorite powder loads for .223 using various cast bullets & being fired in semi-auto. A number of the loads in the books simply do not produce enough blowback to cycle a semi-auto (my Ranch Mini-14).

Again, thanks for all the input.

[BCB]

I may not understand what is going on here, but I have never put so much crimp on a case that It pushed the shoulder back...

Actually, the bullet doesn't even looked crimped to me...

It would seem there would be one heck of a crimp it if pushed the shoulder back...

I was going to try to set up a 223 die to "super crimp" and see if I can get it to push the shoulder back...

I may be thinking wrong on this...

There would need to be one heck of an amount of force on the lever when the case is going to the crimp area of the die...

Good-luck...BCB

[fredj338]

Definitely too much crimp, you are crushing the case. The 223/5.56 runs fine in the AR platform w/ little to no crimp. I have run 1000s with just the crimp ring kissing the case.

[1500FPS]

I may not understand what is going on here, but I have never put so much crimp on a case that It pushed the shoulder back...

Actually, the bullet doesn't even looked crimped to me...

It would seem there would be one heck of a crimp it if pushed the shoulder back...

I was going to try to set up a 223 die to "super crimp" and see if I can get it to push the shoulder back...

I may be thinking wrong on this...

There would need to be one heck of an amount of force on the lever when the case is going to the crimp area of the die...

Good-luck...BCB

You would be surprised how easy it is to buckle that 223 shoulder. Remember the press ram is at cam over.

[runfiverun]

I use my press to swage with it squeezes 40 s&w cases up from 422 to 430 with ease.
if I put more oomph into it it will squeeze the web area and rim up too.
a .0012 thick piece of brass that's already bent doesn't stand a chance.

[GR Pitts]

Well gents; I figured it out on the primer seating issue. Been using a Lee Auto Prime for years. I guess they wear out as well. Had a second small primer seater tray & exchanged trays & primers seat fine. Seems the seating rod wore down just a bit over the years. As they say; it's always the last thing one checks. Have another auto prime on order for back up.

LOL!

[GR Pitts]

Just a follow up gents. Just got back from the range. I had loaded up two different powders, each with three different incremental loads. All cycled well, so I'm a happy camper. No excessive pressure signs I any of the loads. Appreciate all the help. Now I can get busy reloading a couple thousand rounds. LOL!