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View Full Version : Straight wheel weights or adding tin



vernb
06-18-2013, 09:38 AM
How many guys run straight ww alloy. I always have with my Lee 2 holders and haven't had any issues . Now I tried some expensive solder to solve issues with my Lee 452 300 and it only helped a little. I'm gonna Lee ment it now

Shiloh
06-18-2013, 09:46 AM
LEE Ment, and try running a little hotter. I have added tin and have a small stash, but LEE Menting may go a long way.

Shiloh

shadowcaster
06-18-2013, 10:03 AM
Most of the time I do not add tin to my WW alloy. In fact.. for me I only add tin if I cannot achieve good fill out and even then I try not to exceed 1%.

Shad

Larry Gibson
06-18-2013, 01:23 PM
Fact is you will get a much better alloy with the addtition of 2% tin. Many batches of COWWs will cast okay but many won't. The addition of 2 % tin will make the good ones better and the bad ones good.

Also with 300+ gr bullets you must get the alloy into the cavity hot and fast.

Cast at a tempo that keeps the mould hot. If you let it cool off too much (happens quicker than you think) bad fillout or wrinkled bullets will result.

Cast at 725 degrees minimum

If using a bottom pour furnace open the adjustment to let the alloy out fast.

Let a generous sprue form to the point of over flow off the mould.

If using a ladle the esiest technique to use correctly is the one in the lyman manuals. Again be very generous with the sprue.

Cast bullets. Don't be doing other things like inspecting them, BS with a buddy, watching TV or fiddle farting with the equipment. Set it up right and cast bullets. Pay attention to what you are doing. Did I mention "just cast bullets" ........that's what you should be doing and nothing else............

Your mould should not need "leementing", it probably just needs to be used correctly. Not saying you don't know how to cast but there is difference in casting a small weight cast bullet than casting a heavy weight cast bullet. You just need to learn the difference and apply it to your technique.

Larry Gibson

detox
06-18-2013, 03:26 PM
Ladle or bottom pour?

When filling my big RCBS 500 grain BPC mould I hold my Lyman ladle against mould then shake while filling. Make sure ladle is full of alloy to put enough pressure inside the mould for good boolit fill out. Then i leave a generous sprue.

williamwaco
06-18-2013, 04:41 PM
I use a lot of clip on wheel weights.

If they are really cleaned up good and fluxed several times when you smelt them, I find most of them will cast good bullets.

But - not all.

I do find that adding tin will improve most batches of wheel weights.

Bad fill out in my experience is more likely to be caused by the mold being to cold or less likely too hot.
If it is too hot, the bands will be rounded and have a frosted appearance.
( This is REALLY hard to judge on tumble lube bullets since their bands mostly have round tops anyway. )

There are many recommendations on how to adjust the mold temperature. I do it by speeding up or slowing down the fill rate.

Lizard333
06-18-2013, 06:59 PM
90% of the time, straight COWW casts just fine for me. 2% tin makes casting COWW's even better ALL the time.

RBDAVE
06-18-2013, 09:10 PM
Have cast and sent thousands downrange from 358 to 430 to 452 to 356 at multiple weights and designs. All from coww and biggest difference the target cannot see is that they are prettier with a little tin added. Most are as cast and hit where I point them with no leading as long as size is consistent. Try to keep temp of melt and mold consistent along with the speed of the whole process and you will be good to go for plinking. I even use straight coww in 452/310 lee for deer with excellent results in 454 at what I consider long range for pistol with very good results

quack1
06-18-2013, 10:35 PM
I usually only add tin to COWW alloy when I'm casting bullets 25 cal. and smaller. It helps those little drive bands fill out nice and sharp. One day I ran 358 mold that was slightly pitted (someone had left bullets in the mold to prevent rust) and cast a few bullets with straight COWW and then a few with COWW + about 2% tin. A picture is worth a thousand words. Top row is COWW + tin, bottom row COWW.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/1quack1/ww2tinvsplainww.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/1quack1/media/ww2tinvsplainww.jpg.html)

jonk
06-19-2013, 11:15 AM
Depends. I always try straight up first, and see how it does; 90% of the time no tin is needed. If I get wrinkles or failure to fill out even after everything is up to temp, a little tin goes in; something like 1/2 lb of tin to 25 pounds of lead seems to be fine for fill our purposes.

captaint
06-19-2013, 11:32 AM
I seem to have a difficult time getting really good fillout without some tin. Last week I'm pouring 45 boolits and fillout was lacking some, I tried this, tried that. Kept going until I finally grabbed 4 oz of tin and threw it in. Now then, that's more like it.... Ended up dumping about 150 boolits back in the pot. Stubborn. I should know better. Mike

ku4hx
06-19-2013, 11:57 AM
I shoot for 1.5 - 2.0% Tin. I've just always gotten better results, cosmetically and functionally, with a small percentage of Tin. Actually a high percentage of Tin as in Linotype metal works beautifully, but 1.5 - 2.0% works well.

badbob454
06-19-2013, 12:11 PM
for years i used only coww , to cast , last couple of years i have been adding @2% to my coww and the rejects are 50% less and the boolits are shiny and the bands are full and sharp, if you must cast without tin get the temp up to a light frost to cast good boolits ...

1500FPS
06-19-2013, 12:17 PM
You shouldn't have to add tin. Try different casting parameters such as smoking the mold cavities, different alloy temperature, different mold temperature, and believe it or not it does make a difference in how the alloy stream enters the sprue hole. I have never had to add tin in any caliber bullets that I have cast.

quilbilly
06-19-2013, 12:22 PM
Keep an eye open at garage sales for 50/50 or 60/40 solder, especially the garage sales or estate sales that include a shop. That is where I find my tin cheap. I usually find it underneath a bench, in a drawer, or back in a hidden corner.

Larry Gibson
06-19-2013, 12:33 PM
You shouldn't have to add tin.

If you want a good balanced ternary alloy you will have too. As previously mentioned COWWs are notoriously low in tin. Adding tin not only improves fillout and castability of the alloy but the alloy itseft is better. It is not a sum of the 3 parts, it is how the tin mixes with the tin and makes it go into solution in the lead (read the fine but dry articles in Lyman's manuals on cast bullet metalurgy). Adding 2 % tin to COWWs will solve most casting problems so you don't have to smoke the cavities, Leement them for correct size bullets, vary the alloy temp or even the mould temp. Additionally with most lots of COWWs it makes and alloy very comparible in BHN to Lyman #2 but but more malleable.

Note all the posts that do add tin and how they found it makes much better cast bullets. The proof is in the pudding.........

Larry Gibson

vernb
06-19-2013, 12:39 PM
I've casted 358 tl WC and 452 252 g swc with straight cow and have always been happy although they are always a little frosty to get good fill out. This Lee 300 rnfp .452 always looks frosty on the bands with small pits.almost like dirt in the mould . Additional 1% tin helped the frost but not the pitting . After sizing they do look a lot better.

Nickle
06-19-2013, 12:50 PM
Well, what I use depends on the velocity. Slower stuff, just straight WW. Faster stuff, add linotype to make it hard enough to stand the velocity used.

Most mainstream pistol boolits, like 45 ACP, 44 Special, 40 S&W I use just WW. Same with squib loads, though I aim for even softer there. Rifle boolits that are driven closer (or over 2000 fps), the mix gets harder, up until it's straight linotype.

ku4hx
06-19-2013, 01:44 PM
You shouldn't have to add tin.
I don't add Tin because I have to or because somebody told me I should. I do it because in 40+ years of casting, I've found a little Tin makes things much easier and better all around.

I've cast from pure lead and straight COWW but if I have my druthers, and in this case I usually do, I add Tin.

Nickle
06-19-2013, 02:23 PM
And, that's a good position to take. Notice the difference between HAVE to and WANT to. ku4hx gets it.

MT Gianni
06-19-2013, 02:24 PM
Let your bullets tell/show you what they need.

otter5555
06-19-2013, 04:57 PM
How many guys run straight ww alloy. I always have with my Lee 2 holders and haven't had any issues . Now I tried some expensive solder to solve issues with my Lee 452 300 and it only helped a little. I'm gonna Lee ment it now


i've used straight ww material for 40+ years with zero problems. the right heat and of course, mold preheating solve most any problems.

45 Shooter
06-19-2013, 05:07 PM
I'm new to casting and i've tried various methods to avoid adding tin to pure coww's. Pot temp up, pot temp down, mold temp up, mold temp down ect, ect, all in expiermentation. For me I get much better fill out, without frosting, by adding a little tin.

ku4hx
06-19-2013, 05:36 PM
i've used straight ww material for 40+ years with zero problems. the right heat and of course, mold preheating solve most any problems.

Precisely! Every boolit we cast is a "custom job" in one sense and the best tact is to let them and the gun(s) direct you as to what works best for you.