New 45-70, Load recomendations?

[Forester]

Well I broke down and finally did it. I have been wanting a Marlin 45-70 for a good while and it should be here tomorrow. I have a Leupold 2.5X scout scope that I am going to use on it.

I need to get a decent hunting load worked up before deer season hits here and I ordered the RCBS 300gr gas check mould to get started with. I will probably experiment with cutting a hollow point as well, it seemed to help my .30 caliber boolits quite a bit and should help on game too.

I have read through the half a dozen load manuals I have here and am considering starting with IMR 4198 and possibly N-130. Would anyone care to share a favorite load with these or other favorite powders?

I would like to get it started fast enough to still have enough energy and the drop not to be too excessive out to 150-200yards. As it is a hunting load, I expect the recoil to be fairly stiff and don't mind that.

I would also like to hear any particular alloy considerations. I will be starting with WW alloy and probably water dropping to increase hardness. I was always pretty happy if a .308 boolit expanded to a half inch, since this boolit is starting at nearly that size I guess expansion is not too big a deal? A cut hollow point should help some too I suppose.

Sorry for the wide range of questions on this one, I am pretty wound up about getting started with this new rifle. Thanks for any input.

[chunkum]

I like Reloader 7 for this caliber but IMR4198 is another powder lots of 45-70 reloaders like. I think your mould selection of a gas check design is a good choice. I load 40gr of the Rx-7 for the Gould bullet for 1750 - 1800 fps. With the gas check you could use 43gr for a bit more mvl. These levels do fine for the whitetails here on the river ( 150 - 200 # field dressed) and though they aren't maximum loads, they're all we want. You can, of course advance them with the usual precautions if you feel the need.

In regard to your alloy, it depends on your WWs. Those I get locally are too hard to start with and I arrived at cutting them half and half with plumbers lead to get t BHN of 10.5 or 11.
I doubt seriously that water quenching or heat treating will be worth while but YMMV. As long as you size your bullets a little over groove diameter, usually ..459" - .460" and use your gas checks, you should get good accuracy with your RCBS bullet. My personal opiinion is that hollow pointing is probably unnecessary with this bullet and the weight you remove doing so may offset any potential advantage. But, of course, It's fun to experiment. But I don't think any deer you may tag with your new rifle will know the difference. Enjoy your new rifle (as I can see you are already doing).
c.

[Buckshot]

..............To hold up well to 200 yards I'd sure recommend a 405gr vs the 300. There are several good ones out there, and even with a PB can be stoked up well. Having mentioned PB's I'll be hoest and say that the RCBA 45-405FN is my favorite boolit of that weight, but takes a GC. That is, unless we're talking paper patched boolits, which for my money is the best hunting slug anywhere :-)

Three outstanding powders for the 45-70 from mild to wild is 4198, 3031, and 4895. However, 3031 provides the 'Wild' end of things. But 4895 in full, and near full caseloads can also supply all the butt end drama a person may be able to absorb. For the 300gr boolit I'd start at about 32 - 34grs of H/IMR 4198.

................Buckshot

[pdawg_shooter]

After five years of trying I have finally found THE load for my Marlin 1895g. Does everything I want done and is still shootable. I started with new Remington brass, annealed the first ¾ inch using the melted lead method, belled with a Lee expander and primed with CCI 200. The powder charge is 52gr AA 2495. I started with 48 and worked up with no signs of pressure. This is a compressed load, even using a 16 inch drop tube. The magic bullet is cast in a Lyman 451114 mould. The alloy is 17 parts pure lead, 2 ½ parts linotype, and ½ part tin. The bullet drops from the mould .451, 430gr and is ready for patching. I make my patches from 16lb green bar computer paper, cut 2.750 long on a 60* angle 1.500 high. I dip in water and wrap twice around the bullet. They are left to dry overnight, then lubed with LLA. The next day the tails are clipped and the bullet is run through a .459 Lee sizing die. I seat them to an OCL of 2.580. These shoot clover leaf groups at 25 yards and into 1.75 at 100. This is with a Lyman 66 rear sight and factory front sight. Not bad for 55 year old eyes. Bullet performance on game is all one could ask for. I’ll not quit experimenting, but how does one improve on perfection?

[Forester]

..............To hold up well to 200 yards I'd sure recommend a 405gr vs the 300. There are several good ones out there, and even with a PB can be stoked up well. Having mentioned PB's I'll be hoest and say that the RCBA 45-405FN is my favorite boolit of that weight, but takes a GC. That is, unless we're talking paper patched boolits, which for my money is the best hunting slug anywhere :-)

Three outstanding powders for the 45-70 from mild to wild is 4198, 3031, and 4895. However, 3031 provides the 'Wild' end of things. But 4895 in full, and near full caseloads can also supply all the butt end drama a person may be able to absorb. For the 300gr boolit I'd start at about 32 - 34grs of H/IMR 4198.

................Buckshot

The 405gr because of the energy it retains at that distance? I almost ordered that RCBS 405FN mold as well; I guess it will be next. I want to be able to shoot out to 200yards, but in all reality I can not remember the last deer I took at more than 100 and most any of these boolits should do that I think.

I have read a lot of recommendations for 3031, I may see if I can find it locally and try it instead of N-130.

As far as WW alloy being too hard, mine seems to test out at around 10 or 11 BHN and water quench to about 22. I was thinking about water quenching because the loads I was looking at are a little over the pressure level listed here for AC WW.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

I will give them a try both ways, if the air cooled boolits do not lead the bore then I will go with them, sure would be easier. Should I add any tin to the mix? I am afraid of going any softer by adding pure lead, is that a real concern with loads up to about 2000fps?

My )@#^ package from midway with the mold and scope mount in it has been delayed and will not be here till tomorrow now (should have been here yesterday). I guess I will shoot it some with the open sights and slug the barrel to hold me over until I get it setup the way I want it.

Thanks for all the info so far!

[chunkum]

Mathematical calculations determining necessary "hardness" levels as related to maximum firing pressures certainly are helpful; but mostly, in my opinion, in regard to plain based bullets. The use of gas checks, in my experience, gives much more flexability of charge selection while maintaining (or improving) accuracy. YMMV. Whether or not a WW alloy will give good fill out without additional tin has been, for me, unpredictable. I've often just added up to 1.5 - 2.0 % as a matter of routine alloy preparation, and then just increased my mould/alloy temperatures as bullet quality seemed to indicate. Recentlly, for casting heavy, large diameter bullets, I've started going back to casting with the Lyman dipper and, so far, seem to get better fill out and consistant weights at lower temperatures with fewer culls. Admittedly it's slower but it seems to have some advantages.

At the velocities you are projecting with the WW alloy you describe, your bullet should be effective using the straight WWs with, if needed a little tin. And, given the starting diameter of your bullet, going too soft to try for expansion would be, I think, counter productive.
c.

[Forester]

At the velocities you are projecting with the WW alloy you describe, your bullet should be effective using the straight WWs with, if needed a little tin. And, given the starting diameter of your bullet, going too soft to try for expansion would be, I think, counter productive.
c.


Thats what I was kind of thinking. I may add a little tin to help the mold fill out. As far as expansion...a half inch hole all the way through sounds fine to me. I will probably try the hollowpointer just because it has helped accuracy so much when I have tried it on other boolits-good shot placement matters much more IMO than anything else.