My first try at 9mm loads

[Lights]

Last weekend I got a chance to cast some 9mm boolits for myself. I used a 2 cavity Lee 356-120 TC mold. I used range lead mixed about 50/50 with some old store bought 18 bhn bullets I no longer use. The bore slugged at .355" and the boolits dropped at .357". The boolits where lubed with Lee's tumble lube. :grin: I loaded them with 4.5 and 5.0 grains of unique with a OAL of 1.075". They both cycled the gun fine and showed no signs of pressure. The 5.0gr load grouped better than the 4.5gr load at the range today. But when I got home and looked down the barrel. There was all kinds of lead.:( Oh well I cleaned it up with an old brush wrapped in some bronze wool and solvent. It came clean pretty quick. Good thing I just smelted some wheel weight's this morning. I am going to try them next. Should I air cool them or water quench them?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i air cool my 9mm boolits i do a 50/50 mix WW to range lead mix
size to .357 C/R lube and 3.8 gr of B/E i get no leading in my 92FS

[Shiloh]

Are you shooting as cast or running through a sizer?? I run through a sizer for consistency. If you have a .355 bore, you are fortunate. Many 9's run larger. For that reason, many commercial cast sized at .356 don't shoot for squat.

Shiloh

[runfiverun]

try an actual lube and see what happens.

[Rayc384]

Are you using a Lee FCD? If you are it will size your bullet down to .355. This really drove me crazy. I now size to .358. With light loads I got the leading to stop. Finally figured out how to put gas checks on the cast bullets and was able to up the powder charge.

[MtGun44]

+1 on R5R

Pan lube with NRA 50-50 formula lube, size to .357 or .358.

Primarily a lube issue. I never water quench and have shot
a lot of the 356 120 TC at .357 or .358 with zero leading.

Bill

[Lights]

Are you using a Lee FCD? If you are it will size your bullet down to .355. This really drove me crazy. I now size to .358. With light loads I got the leading to stop. Finally figured out how to put gas checks on the cast bullets and was able to up the powder charge.

Yes I am using a Lee FCD and no it is not sizing down my boolits. I pulled and checked some when I was setting the press up. If you are swaging a 9mm boolit down in a Lee FCD you are over crimping them or your sizing ring is to small. The 9mm case has plenty of taper to it, .009" to be exact. the carbide ring should only touch the case just above the shell holder. Now the Lee FCD and a 45acp case is a whole other story as the case only has .003" of tapper.

I am not running my boolits through a sizer. They are dropping the size I want and are round.

I also think it may just be a lube issue. Most of the lead was forward of half way to the muzzle. Good thing that Randy sent me some Tac#1 to try and I also have samples of 50/50, BAC and CR coming to try. I do not have a lubesizer yet. What would be the best way to lube them, dip or pan?

[runfiverun]

the 50-50 and bac will pan lube fine.
the CR is not going to do it as well.
you could just hand lube a dozen to try them.

[Lights]

Well I just pan lubed 30 rounds with Tac #1. I will be off to the range to try them in about an hour. I will let you guy's know how it works out for me.

[b2948kevin]

I have a posting on this right now. It may help you to come up with ideas for what to try.

I will be watching this thread to see if you solve your issue.

[Lights]

Just got from the range. I had less leading but it was definitely still there. There was no smoke that I could see from the Tac#1 lube. I still think my boolits are to soft. I am going to cast some up with straight COWW's and see how they do.

[MtGun44]

I use this mold with AC clip on wwt alloy and NRA 50-50, sized .357 or .358 and have zero
leading in a number of different 9mms.

Bill

[Lights]

Well I got some boolits lubed up today to give the 9mm another try. I have them lubed with 50/50, 45/45/10, BAC, and CR. I am going to the range around 5 pm to try them out. Maybe something will show promise.

[Larry Gibson]

...........I am not running my boolits through a sizer. They are dropping the size I want and are round.

I also think it may just be a lube issue. .......

Yes you have a "lube issue" but it's probably not the LLA. It's your method. Follow the Lee directions; put a light coat on and let them dry over night (24 hours at least if above 65 degrees). Run them through a Lee sizer, a .357 will be fine. Then lube again and let dry the same way before loading. Do not over lube; use 2 light coats so the bullets have a golden hue to them. Too much LLA makes a sticky mess.

I also suggest you add 2% tin to your WW alloy as you may be getting antimony wash instead of "leading". It will make the WWs a much better alloy. You can then add lead to it upwards of 50% and still have an excellent alloy for the 9mm. No need to WQ, just AC the bullets and let them age for 7 - 10 days before use.

Also if you can get some Bullseye it makes a better poeder for cast in the 9mm. I use 4 gr Bullseye under the same Lee 120 gr TC bullet.

Larry Gibson

[Lights]

I had some success today! They all work way better than the LLA. I no longer have chunks of lead in the barrel. There is just a vary light lead colored wash on it. The CR and 50/50 worked the best. The 50/50 smoked more though. I have one more try for the 45/45/10 tomorrow. This time with my boolits cast from a softer alloy than was used today. Both the CR and 50/50 surprised me. Because the CR is a harder lube than most I tried and worked just as good as the softer 50/50. I would really just like to tumble lube them with the 45/45/10. But if the test tomorrow does not show promise I think I will be needing a lubesizer to use CR or 50/50 as lube.

On another note, I did use a Lee 38 S&W PTX this time. The Lee 9mm PTX is not big enough in diameter or long enough to keep from swaging down the boolits. I did modify the 38 S&W PTX though. I chucked it up in the lathe and turned the flaring section down to a straight diameter of .361". This lets the case have about .050" section for the boolit to drop into and get aligned with the case before it gets seated. When set up this way I get no swaging and the boolits will not setback while chambering.

[MtGun44]

Great to hear you are succeeding now!

This is why I consistenly recommend folks start with known good situation and if
they want to experiment later, they can change one variable at a time on a load
that is already working.

Size to .357 ot .358, use NRA 50-50 or equiv, ensure you are DELIVERING the diam
you intend to, and you will have a very high probablity of success. After that, you
can start experimenting - ultimately you may find some other ways to succeed, but
you need to start with a winning load first. Hardness is overratted and lube quality
is underrated by most.


Bill

[Lights]

Vary true words Bill with the exception of the .358" in my case. My barrel slugged at .355". A .358" might be just a tad tight?

Be back in a bit. I need to check the barrel out from todays tests.

[Lights]

OK just checked the barrel after todays testing. 45/45/10 sucks as a lube for this barrel. I am super good at cleaning lead out of the barrel now. It only takes me about 5 min. to get it done now. :roll: I think I will try the 50/50 and CR tomorrow again and decide on which one is the best for this 9mm barrel. What surprised me was the 50/50 and CR both worked better than the BAC lube. All three are from White label lube and the BAC is a mix of 50/50 and CR if I am correct.:veryconfu

I will be back with the lube winner for this barrel tomorrow afternoon.

[Arkansas Paul]

I'm glad you did this thread. I'm having fits with a 9mm as well. I have the RCBS 124 grain TC mold and have tried tumble lubing with Lee Alox and 45-45-10 with terrible results. I'm gonna order some NRA 50-50 from White Label Lube and see if it helps me.

[Lights]

Just got back from the range. I gave WLL 50/50, WLL CR, and I also tried Tac #1 again today (30 rounds of each). All lubes worked pretty good but the Tac #1 and the CR in that order, were just a bit cleaner and smoked less than the 50/50. The CR is easier to work with since it is a slightly harder lube. All of these test were done by dip lubing then sizing in a Lee .356" sizer die. Then loaded using a Lee 4 set of dies with FCD. I did swap out the PTX plug with a 38 S&W PLX plug. That I machined to change the flare section to a .361" straight section. This gave me about a .050" boolit starting/aligning section in the case when set up to properly expand the case to depth for the Lee 356-120-TC boolit.

[Buzz64]

I'm running 3 different 9mms (one smith, one CZ and one ruger). All have had a fairly high number of 4 different designs from RN, TC and hollow points through them, dropped from Lee 6 banger, Lyman two holer and MiHec 4 cavity. All boolits are sized to .356 and used White Label Carnuba red through a lyman sizer. I've not had a speck of leading but push with 4.0 grains of Green Dot. btw smith and CZ slugged to .355 and the ruger was .354! Don't know where all the 'big bore' 9mm are coming from unless they are older models.

[Lights]

I hear you buzz. My Taurus 9mm OSS slugged at .3545" to be exact. I sure am happy now that I found a workable combo for this gun.

[chutesnreloads]

my CZ slugged .355 too

[MtGun44]

LOTS of .357 and larger guns out there. .357 won't do anything bad in a .355 gun,
but a .355 in a .357 gun is a disaster. For multiple guns, bigger is better.

Bill

[Lights]

I found a better combo for my 9mm. It is Klass Kote epoxy paint. No leading what so ever. You can find a thread about it here. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?199696-Does-anyone-know-what-this-guy-uses-to-coat-and-color