Casting Room Indoors or Not

[Newshooter]

Ok so my wife and I are looking to move. We thought we had a house bought recently and that fell through so we have decided to just build. I have only casted lyman 525 deer slugs so far with a dipper so my experience with casting is limited. I have a lee 4-20 pot coming and a Lee 40 S&W mold. I am going to put a room above my garage for my man cave so to speak for my guns, reloader, casting equipment, hunting stuff, etc. I can put anything in the room I want within reasonable cost. Here is my question. Could I cast in this room if I put in something like a range hood that sucked the air out to outside or would this still not be enough ventilation? Does anyone have any ideas that might work for this? I could add a window maybe to open during casting. I was really looking for someplace to leave all my equipment set up all the time and be able just to lock the room to keep out the kids (wife Ha Ha) I currently cast in the garage and have to drag out my stuff then put it all back to keep unwanted hands off. I also live in Iowa and there is a loll in the winter time between the time hunting season ends and spring begins that would make a good time to cast/reload bullets. Open to ideas from everyone. Thanks

[a.squibload]

My guess is the garage floor is concrete and the
floor upstairs is something else. Consider the
effect of a couple quarts of molten metal
spilled on each type of floor.
I like casting in the garage, no rain,
snow or wind. Never have dumped a batch
of hot lead but if it happened I'd rather have
it happen in the garage than the house.
Also there will be splatters, easy to pick up
off concrete.

[ku4hx]

I cast in the garage. I could do it inside (wife is a new shooter and now understands) but to do so is just not wise in my opinion. Try as you might, over time you will never be able to keep the odors and what little smoke there might be out of the curtains, carpet and etc. Even when I cook my garlic laden spaghetti, the whole house smells of the meal for the next few days. And we have a very nice exhaust hood over the cook top.

Not to mention the mess of casting in general. As fastidious and safe as I am, over the years I've had the tinsel fairy visit (lead splatters tend to reduce the house's resale value), lubricants tend to get in the oddest places, things get dropped, things get spilled and etc.

The garage is the place for me. Besides, when I cast, I want as few distractions as possible. Distractions tend to stay in the house.

[texassako]

I also cast in the garage for the same reasons listed above. It would be nice to have an air conditioned space in the summer, though. I think if the room is accessed through the garage and not through the main house, it could be a great space. Hot lead is not kind to most flooring, and some interesting smells issue from the pot occasionally.

[Shiloh]

I prefer outside in the garage.

Shiloh

[Inkman]

Another vote for the garage. Easier to clean with the shop-vac too.

Al

[Walter Laich]

have overhang on garage--cast under it--roll stuff back in when cool

[Dan Cash]

Your upstairs garage room would be ideal as long as you provide sufficients floor support when building it. An exhaust fan on the order of a furnace fan will evacuate your smoke and odors produced while casting. Put a sheet of steel (1/16") on the floor under your casting area and on your bench top. Any spills will be controlled and flooring protected. Clean up a breeze.

The only drawback I can see is lugging your ingots up stairs as I assume you would do any smelting out of doors. I have a heck of an evacuation system but would not try to smelt under it due to the stench.

[Randy C]

You could have the heat and air guy make you a metal pan for the floor for when you are casting and put it in the corner when you are done, something like what they put under a hot water heater.

[Mk42gunner]

Since you are planning on building to suit anyway, here are a few ideas.

In my ideal shop, I would have a vault for my gun/ loading room and a separate room for casting. I would still render the wild wheel weights into ingots outside, (burning crystalized dog urine doesn't smell good).

Since you are going to have a garage, build your man cave upstairs, and a small well ventilated, lockable room towards the back of your garage. It seems like many of the newer garages I see have a smaller rollup door in the back for a riding lawnmower, to the side of that would be good. The casting room doesn't really have to be any larger than 5'x5', if that.

This would keep the hot stuff well separated from the flammable solids (powder).

Just an idea,

Robert

[btroj]

Have a nook in the garage for the casting stuff. Put doors on it to keep little ones out.

[Randy C]

I vote for the man cave, insolated central heat and air access to rest room and fridge. Do your smelting out side.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ing-bench-pics
I did not know this is not here anymore it had great pictures to many thief's watching these sights I guess.
I ask for some advice this winter they posted it here one 2 pages I have twice what is in the pictures now it is a mess in my room.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?174378-Remodel-my-reloading-room/page2

[Tatume]

I recommend against casting indoors. It can be done safely, and I used to have a ventilation system so I could cast in my detached garage. However, it is messy. Since you are building to suit, I suggest you build a room to store your stuff with an outside door, a concrete pad, and an awning. You could even build a table on the outside wall under the awning. You could EVEN put a window above the table, and just slide your stuff inside and out through the window. When you're ready to cast, open the window, pull your pot and molds outside onto the table, have fun. All the smoke and grime will be outdoors, and you can clean up afterwards with a garden hose.

[bangerjim]

I would vote for the man cave - modified for casting. Smelt outdoors.

I have a 12x14 full insulated "back" yard shop that is air conditioned and stays cool in the summer. Her is the SW where temps can get to over 110, you need AC everywhere. My 3 stall garage gets waaaaaay to hot in the summer to do much out there, so I built a smaller version complete with all the tools in smaller versions for the back. I have everything - drill press, metal & wood lathes, belt sander, router, shaper, jointer, and every hand tool I will need.

I do all my smelting and casting on the patio area I put in front of that smaller shop. Totally shaded all day by huge trees and I have a big portable evap blowing cool air, so it is actually rather pleasant. All my supplies and ingots are just inside the door in the shop.

NEVER keep your powder and primers in a hot place or even in the same room! Mine are kept in the house in totally separate rooms in safe containers.

Don't know where you are located but the attic over garage sounds nice....if it does not get too hot or cold. Cold...........what a unique concept! :Bright idea:

Good luck with new house.

bangerjim :Fire:

[BBQJOE]

I agree with previous posts. The only thing I would add is some sort of dumb waiter to move lead up and down from upstairs.

[9w1911]

i Know some old school competition .45acp shooters from the 70s, these guys would grab beers, cast all night and shoot all day, and they would shoot and cast indoors, well the all have toxic levels of lead, some guys feel pretty bad, but are getting better. Their response to me was why even cast? and if you do never do it indoors. They felt that the primers and exposure to lead in the indoor environ is what caused the excessive and toxic exposure, why take a chance. I like to cast in the outdoors on the side of my house with a nice breeze, not ideal but it suites me.

[Newshooter]

Wow lots of good advise here thanks guys. I would not smelt in this room due to all the reasons listed before, this would strictly be a bullet casting area. Some place that I can permanently mount my Pid and tailor my casting bench to just cast on. I have lots of options here since I am building and I am glad I asked everyone. I think a better option would be a small room off of the back of the garage with a door that I can lock along with concrete floors for spills and I would not have to lug my lead up the stairs. I am not to old yet (33) but I defiantly am not getting any younger. If I lined it up right I could probably just back my truck up to the door and unload right into the room. Hmmm. Keep the ideas coming here guys I would like all the input I can get before I get the plans drawn up for my house. I will probably build it plenty big so I don't run out of room to fast. I have never heard anyone say that there garage is just to big I'm sure the same would apply to a casting room right? I was thinking that if I could do it indoors I can regulate the temps better and keep the wind from blowing right on the pot you know those kinda things and of coarse it would be more comfortable to me as well.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

As a Bachelor,
I cast boolits indoors and clean fish indoors.
in the summer time, I mostly cook outdoors :wink:

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/castingbench.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/castingbench.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1619.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/100_1619.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/triplebladekrautcutter2012session.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/triplebladekrautcutter2012session.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/DCookingandmillingintoJuice.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/DCookingandmillingintoJuice.jpg.html)

[felix]

I know some old school competition .45acp shooters from the 70s, ME TOO, and they would shoot and cast indoors, well they all have toxic levels of lead. DANG RIGHT! ONE OF MY COHARTS PASSED SEVERAL YEARS AGO WITH THE POISONING. ... FELIX appended

[dverna]

If you are going to cast indoors, set up something like a lab fume hood. It will evacuate fumes effectively.

I have a pole barn that is 50% finished. It was used as a studio by a previous owner. I have considered doing that in the finished part of the pole barn. It is definitely an option to do that in your man cave.

Then the "sensible" side of me says, why not cast all I need during decent weather in the other part of the pole barn. There are so few really hot days in northern MI that AC is not needed. But you sure do not want to be casting "outdoors" during the winter. So I will start by casting in the spring, cool summer days and fall; and reloading during the winter. That means no casting for 3-4 months - but I can live with that.

[fcvan]

I've always cast outdoors but usually under some cover. I will be building a shop with a casting station/reloading area. For casting, I will have a section with sheet metal on the bench top as it makes clean up simple. I will be using a range hood for positive airflow with an air intake to to maximize fresh air intake without sucking too much room heat out the vent. I've cast outside with snow on the ground, that's not an issue as I just dress accordingly. The main thing is using good ventilation when indoors. I am also planning on having and adjustable light source to watch the pour and the cooling sprue. Smelting will always be an outside endeavor.

[mustanggt]

I don't have a choice but to cast in the garage but would do it still just the same. Make your garage a little bigger where you want the bench and have it all set up for there. Fume hood sounds good too. Nice to have room to spread out too. Clean up on concrete is the way to go.

[MGySgt]

I have a 10X12 Shed that I built my casting bench in. I use an old range hood that I wired in to draw the fumes out with. I store most of my lead in this same shed (about 1.5 tons) Also I can store other items for reloading and shooting that I don't use on a regular basis.

The only time my casting pot is moved is when I want a different alloy and I move my other pot under the hood.

No heat or A/C, but I can always turn the pot and hot plate on, go back in the house for 30-40 minutes and then cast for as long as I can stand the heat or cold and flip a switch that turns off my pot and hotplate and go back in the house to cool down or warm up.

I can cast for 15 minutes or 4 hours whatever trips my trigger at that time.

[Cherokee]

Been casting since 1968, always inside, in the basement workshop. Lead levels are normal. Concrete floor makes cleanup easy, if any need. Smelting done outside. Whatever you do, make sure you have more electrical supply and lighting to the area than you think you need. I would opt for the man cave with the sheet metal pan on the floor or under the pot area for drips (if any) and the range hood.

[mikeym1a]

When I started casting my own, I did it in the kitchen. I used the largest fan I had to blow air out the window, but it really wasn't effective. Outside is better. If you really want to cast indoors, Make sure you have really big windows that open, have a high volume exhaust fan, and you could put down ceramic tiles on the floor, in case of an accident. Outside is better. Re-processed about 100lbs of alloy yesterday. It cleaned up real nice. I'm surprised how well sawdust works to clean it up. Anyway, I enjoy the sunshine. And if I am out til the eventide, I hear all sorts of creatures. Some really odd bird noises, woodpeckers, I think one of the neighbors has a Pea Fowl. I like the outdoors. Fresh air.

[mpmarty]

My shop has a covered patio open on both ends and it's 42X14 feet and about twelve feet high. Nice breeze blows through all year and that's where I smelt and cast.

[Boolseye]

I cast in my daylight basement, right next to an open door with a fan blowing the fumes out and all the windows open.

[dromia]

Garage is my permanently set up casting workshop, the roller door up gives plenty of ventilation, if I feel it is needed.

With "clean" alloy there are no fumes except when stirring in the sawdust, the main source of lead contamination is through lead dust and ingestion, not lead fumes.

Smelting is done out side on the drive.

[a.squibload]

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1619.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/100_1619.jpg.html)



Cat: "These is mine, right? Where is yours?"

[Jack Stanley]

Hey Jon !!! The cat doesn't seem to mind being woke up for that picture !!!!! he he he he heee!!


In my last house I added a large capacity kitchen range fan in the Garage wall just above the level the electric pot was going to be . Then I constructed a hood on the wall to channel fumes and smoke out . The I enclosed the corner so that the door behind me could be used to help regulate how the fast the fumes and smoke were carried away . It worked real well for years without any problems .

Built the new house and I claimed more space in the basement . Built a hood and used a range fan to duct the fluxing fumes outside . It works well though I wished I had used yet a higher capacity fan . Benchtop is formica that can be cleaned well enough to keep things clean for swaging and for casting I cover it with a lagre piece of plywood . Floor is normal tile and not the ceramic stuff . I've never had the pro-melt let go of a batch of alloy and the lead "crumbs" that hit the floor during casting are not big enough to melt the tiles . The pro-melt has been used at both houses with no more than an ingot mold under the spout to catch drips . Ingot lead only is melted in the rooms .

I like the upstairs idea because I think you will be able to control the temperature and humidity of the room better than a garage . Unless of course you are going to close off part of the garage . While I would build the floor of the upstairs a little heavier , I would not suggest storing all your ingot lead up there . Carry up what you want to use , turn it into bullets and store that up there . Also going thicker on insulation all around your room would be wise when you want to heat and cool the place . I understand it gets both quite warm and humid in summer and quite chilly in january out there .

Jack

[Pb Burner]

Interesting thread Newshooter. I'm intending to set up in my basement to cast. Concrete floors and the furnace vents out right above where I will cast, there's room for another vent there. I have a kitchen range hood to use and am going to hang it above the casting pot. Going to be using cleaned and fluxed ingots only. If I cast outside, I'll rarely get to cast, and half the time when I find time....it's dark out there!
Not to hijack the thread, but I would love some input as to how high above the pot to put the hood (or any other advise). And,,,,does a "normal" range hood move enough air? If not I guess I'll get an inline fan....
Thanks for starting this thread Newshooter!
Burner

[Dale53]

Several years ago, I had a 12x20 Utility outbuilding erected. I had the walls and ceiling insulated and installed a permanent casting station. I had an electric wall heater installed along with a window air conditioner. The builder built in a ceiling range hood complete with a furnace squirrel cage blower for exhaust. I cast winter, spring, summer, and fall whenever the spirit moves me (which is quite often:grin:). Previous to that, I used my Florida room for casting complete with an exhaust fan. It worked quite well but the Florida room was pretty well taken up with casting equipment. No more.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QASSRAPeregrine-Casting2-2006015.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/QASSRAPeregrine-Casting2-2006015.jpg.html)

Relax, that powder container is empty!
I have always smelted outdoors and continue to do so.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1768.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1768.jpg.html)

To the original poster - good luck on your new dedicated casting area. You will LOVE it!

Dale53

[Newshooter]

Well do to the design of our house it works out well to put a room off of the back of the garage and utilize that for a butting our patio up to. I will be getting a separate heating and cooling unit for this room I was thinking one of the units you see in a hotel room ac and heat together. Lots of good advice here. I only want to do this once so all suggestions are welcome. I also was wondering like Pb Burner if a range hood would be enough or if I need to get something bigger.

[Glock Junkie]

I cast in my garage near the garage doors with a fan blowing across my bench to blow the flux smoke out the door. My wife does not like the smell of the cedar chips when they smoke and 90% of the smoke goes outside.

[mroliver77]

I am with dromia, casting does not create lead fumes! The dross is the dangerous part if not handled correctly.Shooters get lead poisoning from poorly vented ranges or possibly just shear volume shooting. Primers have been made with a lead base for years and put out a puff of lead when fired.

We are not melting iron here! With a little preparation indoors is fine. A range hood high enough over the pot to allow one to work moves plenty of air. A niche can be made in the corner of a "bonus" room over the garage. Terra cotta tile are cheap and there are many attractive wall board coverings that would be fine to use around your casting station. If I had the $$ mine would be done all in sheet metal maybe even stainless. We are losing 3 schools and I will check on cafeteria counters when the time comes!
It might not be a bad idea to have a separate furnace for your room with upgraded filters just to pacify those that dont understand.(isolated from house)

As a builder I recommend all 6" walls well insulated. Fuel prices will never go down! Access to room from house and garage would be essential for me. Think about built in safe or room while you are at it!
J

[Echo]

+1 for MrOliver. Handling the ingots may get Pb dust on our hands, so we should wash our hands, or take off our gloves (my choice) prior to drinking or snacking after casting. No Pb vapor from the casting process. I cast in my reloading room, an outside room that was a storeroom when I bought the house, now an inside room since I enclosed the carport. The only issue I have is the smoke from the sawdust flux, but that's not bad, and the door is usually open to allow the smoke easy egress.
I like the idea of lining the work bench, but I would prefer aluminum rather than steel. I think I will have a top made for my outside casting bench (from Harbor Freight). Just got it, put it on my patio (under cover) and haven't used it to amount to anything yet. I need to put spacers under the legs to get it up to a usable height - would work OK for a regular chair position, but I would rather use a barstool (no jokes, please). Higher would allow casting while standing, an option.
My reloading room was carpeted with cheap stick-on carpet squares that are easily replaced when lead splotches get too unsightly, and makes standing easier than raw concrete.

[a.squibload]

Good thread, changed my mind about indoor
casting. Guess indoor cooking was strange at
one time...

[BCRider]

OK, I admit that I didn't fully read ALL the replies. But I'm a trifle shocked at how many are casting indoors with only a range hood or worse as an airflow control.

There's ONE thread back on page 1 of the replies that I agreed with. And that was the one that suggested a full on chemical style fume hood setup where you have an exhaust fan sucking air through an opening into a casting area. This fume hood area being closed in on the sides and top and has a limited entry area that let's your hands into the casting area. The access opening should be small enough that the exhaust fan is strong enough to maintain a constant airflow inwards through the opening. I'd even go so far as to suggest that a "salad bar" glass area in front of your face be used to further limit the access area and avoid you having to use a face mask since none of your face would be exposed. Tempered glass only of course. Or possibly acrylic. Just in case some lead is propelled up into the glass.

Seems like overkill? If you want to work on this stuff inside I'd suggest that it's an all or nothing situation. A range hood only vent out those that rise up to within the capture range. The rest is free to float out into your face and out into the room. The only way to properly control such a thing is with the same method that is used for paint booths and chemical fume hoods. And that means you need an exhaust fan that is good enough to deal with the opening. On a paint booth that means something big and noisy that moves LOTS of cubic feet per minute. Reduce the area and use a face window to further reduce the opening size and suddenly you find that you can get away with something small and quiet that isn't much stronger than a range hood fan.

For example, when I look at Dale53's pictures I see the casting area but no range hood. So clearly the range hood is up at some point outside of the top of the picture framing. There is a LOT of open area between the pot and the hood. So the ONLY fumes that will be vented out are those which happen to rise up to some few inches from the hood. The rest if free to be breathed in and float around the shop to further be inhaled.

Dale, I'm not using you out of malice of any form. Rather I hope you'll take my critique in a friendly and concerned manner for a fellow shooter that is near the same age as me, given your user name and join date, and would like to see you live a lot longer without any risk of lead poisoning.

[BCRider]

Here's a sketch of what I'd want to use if I were to set up for indoor casting.

Note that if the face window were not included that the range hood on its own is simply not going to flow enough air to avoid lead casting fumes wandering into the user's face and into the room and on into any other connecting rooms.

For a fume hood style setup to work you MUST be able to see airflow into the capture and exhaust area anywhere within the opening to the working area or anywhere around the working area if there is no airflow control baffling. And without side and upper control baffling this means you need something that is darn near tornado like to ensure proper fume control.

Hell, I wouldn't even cast in my garage with just the door open for this reason. Parnoid? Perhaps. But I've managed to reach 60 years of age in excellent health by using nitrile gloves pretty much whenever using solvents and by using other safety products to avoid breathing or touching stuff which can be absorbed through my skin or lungs and hurt me from the inside.

73767

[MaryB]

I have a 12x16 foot workshop off my deck. I cast in there but am going to make some changes like insulation and better lighting for winter use. Right now it isn't insulated and at -20 it gets COLD in there. Right now I open a window over the bench and the 6 foot roll up door, a fume hood for smoke from fluxing is on the list. Going to see what the recycle store has for a large used range hood.

I do my actual reloading in the house where temps are nicer and things are more comfortable.

Lead does not fume at the temps you cast at, you would have to vaporize it to be in danger from lead fumes. Lead dust is another issue but that can be managed with gloves and keeping the casting area wiped down.

[dromia]

OK, I admit that I didn't fully read ALL the replies. But I'm a trifle shocked at how many are casting indoors with only a range hood or worse as an airflow control.

There's ONE thread back on page 1 of the replies that I agreed with. And that was the one that suggested a full on chemical style fume hood setup where you have an exhaust fan sucking air through an opening into a casting area. This fume hood area being closed in on the sides and top and has a limited entry area that let's your hands into the casting area. The access opening should be small enough that the exhaust fan is strong enough to maintain a constant airflow inwards through the opening. I'd even go so far as to suggest that a "salad bar" glass area in front of your face be used to further limit the access area and avoid you having to use a face mask since none of your face would be exposed. Tempered glass only of course. Or possibly acrylic. Just in case some lead is propelled up into the glass.

Seems like overkill? If you want to work on this stuff inside I'd suggest that it's an all or nothing situation. A range hood only vent out those that rise up to within the capture range. The rest is free to float out into your face and out into the room. The only way to properly control such a thing is with the same method that is used for paint booths and chemical fume hoods. And that means you need an exhaust fan that is good enough to deal with the opening. On a paint booth that means something big and noisy that moves LOTS of cubic feet per minute. Reduce the area and use a face window to further reduce the opening size and suddenly you find that you can get away with something small and quiet that isn't much stronger than a range hood fan.

For example, when I look at Dale53's pictures I see the casting area but no range hood. So clearly the range hood is up at some point outside of the top of the picture framing. There is a LOT of open area between the pot and the hood. So the ONLY fumes that will be vented out are those which happen to rise up to some few inches from the hood. The rest if free to be breathed in and float around the shop to further be inhaled.

Dale, I'm not using you out of malice of any form. Rather I hope you'll take my critique in a friendly and concerned manner for a fellow shooter that is near your age, given your user name and join date, and would like to see you live a lot longer without any risk of lead poisoning.

What exactly is your vent hood venting?

[BCRider]

.........Lead does not fume at the temps you cast at, you would have to vaporize it to be in danger from lead fumes. Lead dust is another issue but that can be managed with gloves and keeping the casting area wiped down.

If this is the case then I can see why we've gotten away with our respective arrangements without developing lead poisoning.

So that just leaves the smells and/or smoke from the fluxing along with any contaminants on recycled lead that do burn or gas off during the initial smelting down.

Dromia, at present I only cast outdoors in my back yard when the weather is nice. But I've used setups similar to that shown in the past for airbrushing. And when my new metal working shop is done I plan on a slightly larger setup than the range hood setup shown in the sketch for solvent use. It'll likely also see use as my casting area as the solvents themselves will be stored on the other side of the shop since this same fume removal area will also be my welding and heavy grinding bench. The idea being that the fumes and dust from solvents, paints, grinding and welding will all be generated in the same area and sucked away by the one system. Obviously I'll need to clean between the different uses.

[dromia]

So you will be smelting and alloying indoors and it is the detritus fumes you wish to remove? There should be no lead fumes under normal casting and smelting conditions as the lead should never get that hot.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

OK, I admit that I didn't fully read ALL the replies. But I'm a trifle shocked at how many are casting indoors with only a range hood or worse as an airflow control.

Seems like overkill? If you want to work on this stuff inside I'd suggest that it's an all or nothing situation. A range hood only vent out those that rise up to within the capture range. The rest is free to float out into your face and out into the room. The only way to properly control such a thing is with the same method that is used for paint booths and chemical fume hoods. And that means you need an exhaust fan that is good enough to deal with the opening. On a paint booth that means something big and noisy that moves LOTS of cubic feet per minute. Reduce the area and use a face window to further reduce the opening size and suddenly you find that you can get away with something small and quiet that isn't much stronger than a range hood fan.


If you tumble fired brass with primers intact, I hope you take similar care as you suggest above as that is an actual situation where there is likely airborne lead particulate that can be inhaled or otherwise contaminate the area it's in.
Good Luck,
Jon

[alamogunr]

OK, I admit that I didn't fully read ALL the replies. But I'm a trifle shocked at how many are casting indoors with only a range hood or worse as an airflow control.

There's ONE thread back on page 1 of the replies that I agreed with. And that was the one that suggested a full on chemical style fume hood setup where you have an exhaust fan sucking air through an opening into a casting area. This fume hood area being closed in on the sides and top and has a limited entry area that let's your hands into the casting area. The access opening should be small enough that the exhaust fan is strong enough to maintain a constant airflow inwards through the opening. I'd even go so far as to suggest that a "salad bar" glass area in front of your face be used to further limit the access area and avoid you having to use a face mask since none of your face would be exposed. Tempered glass only of course. Or possibly acrylic. Just in case some lead is propelled up into the glass.

Seems like overkill? If you want to work on this stuff inside I'd suggest that it's an all or nothing situation. A range hood only vent out those that rise up to within the capture range. The rest is free to float out into your face and out into the room. The only way to properly control such a thing is with the same method that is used for paint booths and chemical fume hoods. And that means you need an exhaust fan that is good enough to deal with the opening. On a paint booth that means something big and noisy that moves LOTS of cubic feet per minute. Reduce the area and use a face window to further reduce the opening size and suddenly you find that you can get away with something small and quiet that isn't much stronger than a range hood fan.

For example, when I look at Dale53's pictures I see the casting area but no range hood. So clearly the range hood is up at some point outside of the top of the picture framing. There is a LOT of open area between the pot and the hood. So the ONLY fumes that will be vented out are those which happen to rise up to some few inches from the hood. The rest if free to be breathed in and float around the shop to further be inhaled.

Dale, I'm not using you out of malice of any form. Rather I hope you'll take my critique in a friendly and concerned manner for a fellow shooter that is near the same age as me, given your user name and join date, and would like to see you live a lot longer without any risk of lead poisoning.

It's been nice associating with you guys. I'm apparently not long for this world. I cast inside my A/C/Heated shop. I only open the door and use a fan to exhaust the flux smoke. The next time they test my blood, I'll have them test for lead but I don't expect to change anything.

I have done all my cleaning up of WW outside away from people, mostly because of the stink. I've got enough stash that I won't be doing that anymore.

My casting sessions are usually a couple of hours at most and usually only about twice a month. Sometimes, when I'm ladle casting large boolets, I use a plumbers furnace outside. I don't use propane inside.

I would never recommend to anyone else that they follow my example.

[MGySgt]

Well - I am 62 and have always cast indoors - According to my doctor I have no issues with lead content.

[BCRider]

I stand corrected on the lead fume issue. I would have thought that any time there's a liquid state that there's going to be SOME amount of fumes. But it seems that's not the case.

I guess I went a little over the top on the safety thing. But I honestly had the best of intentions for wanting to keep folks safe.

For all the rest of the activities I mentioned above I'll still be making up that fume hood like area just to keep solvent, grinding and welding fumes out of the garage/shop and connected house anyway. And since I'll have the area set up I may as well use it for my casting since it'll handle the fluxing mess as well.

I tried tumbling when I started out. But I found it a pain to get the media out of the casings and the insides were left as dirty as they started. I switched over to washing my casings with or without primers still in using an ultrasonic cleaner with a mix of water, laundry soap and vinegar based on recipes I found on the web. This works for me so much more effectively on both the inside and outside that I gave my tumbler away to someone that wanted a third machine. So other than handling the dirty brass while dry it's not an issue.

[Recluse]

I cast inside my A/C/Heated shop. I only open the door and use a fan to exhaust the flux smoke. The next time they test my blood, I'll have them test for lead but I don't expect to change anything.

Like you, I cast inside my a/c - heated shop. More often than not, I have the a/c going because I live in Texas and it gets hellishly hot here and when the urge or desire to cast hits (which is weekly, it seems) I'm not into sweating simply for the sheer fun of it. :)

Here is an older shot of my casting table. It's in the middle of the shop, underneath the ceiling fan. To the left is a wall-unit a/c and to the right is the door, and also two windows that I can open up in cooler weather to vent flux fumes.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53424&d=1336269281

I built a sink in the upper right hand corner and plumbed it so I could have ready access to water for water-dropping as well as keeping a wet towel next to the furnace for BruceB speed-casting.

As others have accurately pointed out, keep your alloy temps down and you have zero worries or concerns about harmful lead fumes. The one and only time I ever had elevated lead levels in my blood was during a long stretch of particularly heavy shooting in an indoor range with extremely poor ventilation. Combine that with some sloppy handling of the fired brass during pick-up off the floor and separating and tumbling, and it all added up to elevated levels.

During the next six-plus months, I did no shooting or brass sorting or tumbling, but did continue to reload and to cast and smelt. Lab tests subsequently showed a return to normal levels. (Also consumed a lot of Vitamin C, lots of water, and upped my daily vitamin intake.)

:coffee:

[Smoke4320]

At least you wrote back to correct your self .. I can totally respect that


I stand corrected on the lead fume issue. I would have thought that any time there's a liquid state that there's going to be SOME amount of fumes. But it seems that's not the case.

I guess I went a little over the top on the safety thing. But I honestly had the best of intentions for wanting to keep folks safe.

For all the rest of the activities I mentioned above I'll still be making up that fume hood like area just to keep solvent, grinding and welding fumes out of the garage/shop and connected house anyway. And since I'll have the area set up I may as well use it for my casting since it'll handle the fluxing mess as well.

I tried tumbling when I started out. But I found it a pain to get the media out of the casings and the insides were left as dirty as they started. I switched over to washing my casings with or without primers still in using an ultrasonic cleaner with a mix of water, laundry soap and vinegar based on recipes I found on the web. This works for me so much more effectively on both the inside and outside that I gave my tumbler away to someone that wanted a third machine. So other than handling the dirty brass while dry it's not an issue.

[dverna]

My gut tells me that if something is in the liquid state, there will be vapors released. I have found articles on the vapor pressure of lead - so it has been studied. Frankly, they are too "learned" for me.

I will continue to recommend that casting indoors without a fume hood is not a good idea. It is the safe position. If nothing else, the fumes from fluxing would get me in trouble with the SO.

[Three44s]

I have a man cave for loading/casting that I only currently load and size in.

Over the past 20+ years that I have cast, I've been smelting outside and firmly believe in continuing that practice.

My casting has largely been outside but lately I have been using our attached garage for that. We have good side windows with a steel topped work bench there. I'll have both side windows open, both man doors open and the wide car door open (16 feet) as well.

What I notice is that wind directions change and my smoke is not consistent ........ it's going out the window sometimes ..... another time it's going for the big door and then that said ..... it's circling in my face ...... nothing to count on ..... lots of ventilation but no control on smoke removal too much of the time.

Now I don't want to get in an arguement over vapor pressure and liquid state vs. gaseous state. And while it's encouraging that some of the posters have direct data on their blood levels and how indoor range use affects their lead levels more than casting ever could ........ I still am cautious about what is my fluxing smoke.

I DO plan on casting indoors in my new man cave but here's what I built in to it:

On the wall adjacent to where the casting bench is going to go will be a fresh air inlet that allows air from the larger portion of the barn to enter the load/casting room. It's right along side and right below where the pot will go. Overhead, there is a four inch air duct plumbed into the ceiling. When the project is complete and before I am going to cast there, I will build or have built a sufficient hood ..... not a kitchen hood but a more substantial unit more along the lines of a small commercial hood.

I am still debating on how low or close above the lead pot to locate it. With this much hood capability, what you don't want to do is bleed too much of the heat from around the lead pot away and unnecessarily lower your alloy temp.

Now, you can call it overkill ....... that's OK ........ but for the small investment to do this at the time we built the area, I think it will be prudent.

Consider this: You take a non-hooded space and provide substantial ventilation during times of needing heating or cooling and tell me that you are not wasting heating or cooling dollars?

I plan on having a good amount of adjustment of incoming air and the vented as well. I'll have a postive control of my work space air with minimum loss of my "comfort air".

The way I set up my fresh air I can even duct it right up through my casting table and around the lead pot as I chose.

When I get this all done I'll be glad to take some pics and post them.

Best regards

Three 44s

[MaryB]

I repaired electronics for 27 years and dealt with lead solder daily. Head right over the fumes most of the time. No lead levels in my blood the entire time, I had it checked every 6 months because works insurance required it. Found this also

Melting point 600.61 K, 327.46 °C, 621.43 °F
Boiling point 2022 K, 1749 °C, 3180 °F (at its boiling point is starts to emit vapors, which is your concern.)

if you have your pot at 3,000 degrees you are going to have problems, like a melted pot, bench on fire...

[Newshooter]

Ok so I went in today and got the process started for the new house. We should have a drawing in 7 to 10 days. I choose not to go above the garage with the man cave but added 10 more feet to the back of the garage which put the room at 36 x 10 with 2 windows and 2 doors one from the garage and one to outside. I was going to put a roof over the door to have cover when I smelt but that was going to make the house look funny so I will just have to suck it up and do it in the driveway on nice days. There is a lot of good advise on here and is going to be put to good use. I have decided that I am going to put in some sort of a hood to suck out the fumes/smoke from casting and I really like the idea of the fresh air pipe coming in by the hood. I was just going to open the window a crack to let in fresh air but having a pipe coming in from outside directly by the hood area would keep the vent from sucking all the heated/cooled air out. I don't plan on starting the house till around October so its a little ways away yet.

[snuffy]

Fumes, smoke, vapors? Most discussions about lead fears in casting have those terms in them. But what do they mean?

Any carbon put on molten lead will smoke. Is it good for you? Probably not, unless in great concentration. Meaning not being able to see clearly across the casting space.

Fumes? Just what does THAT mean? If you're confusing fumes with vapor, then lead vapor is really bad for you.

But the fact that lead does not throw very much vapor under 1200 degrees, is seldom known to those that have heard the EPA's alarmist warnings,(BS), in the past. It's true that any liquid will have some vapor on the surface. Lead does too, BUT being a heavy vapor, it hugs the surface of the melt. Unless you have an overflowing pot, or somehow disturb the calm boundary layer on the surface of the melt, (hint-hint, a fan blowing the "FUMES" away from you), there's little danger.

I started casting in the basement of my folks home. It was dark, dank, and cool down there. No ventilation. Now my casting set-up is in my loading room, (spare bedroom), no ventilation in winter, only 2 small windows in the summer. I have my lead blood levels done every 18 months through the VA. Still under 10, last one was 16 months ago, 7.0. I'm 67, started casting when I was 25.

[BCRider]

Thee44's and Newshooter, I'd urge you to reconsider the use of the outside vent to supply a fume hood setup. The whole point of a fume hood is to encourage the flow of air in through the access opening so it passes by the user and avoids any air from in the protection area being able to flow back into the room. By providing an outside air source you'll reduce the airflow velocity at the access opening which means you just need to run the fan faster.

Instead I'd go in two other directions if you're taking this fume hood thing seriously. First and foremost is to use an upper "face window" setup as I showed in the sketch. This aids by reducing the size of the access opening. It should be on hinges so you can flip it up out of the way for full access when not being used as a fume hood. On top of this side shields or adjustable curtains can be added to the opening to further reduce the access opening size. When being used in a minimal size option you can then use a multi speed exhaust fan at a lower setting and still maintain a proper airflow velocity across the whole area of the opening. By closing off the area as much as practical you reduce the need to suck away your heated or cooled down interior air with no reduction in fume protection for the room and yourselves.

The key is that with or without an outside vent you still need enough air movement to generate the minimum flow velocity over the area of the access opening. With an exterior vent adding to this you simply need a bigger and more powerful exhaust fan. So the key to reducing the removal of your shop air is just to close down the opening as far as practical and turn down the fan so there's a slight but easily noticable airflow into the opening. A light string or slip of paper held at the opening should bend towards the flow at any point by some amount. It doesn't need to snap horizontal to be effective.... :D

By using this adjustable opening setup and a multi speed fan you have the option of a small opening for solvent or casting or you can open it up wide and run it on "full tilt boogie" when spray painting.

Now, if you can't find a multi speed fan for a reasonable price then an outside vent with a damper on it could be used as a vent which lets you feed extra air into the hood to reduce the shop air inflow. For when you use the hood setup with a small opening you can open the vent quite a ways to reduce the shop air inflow to the ideal velocity. For this type of flow controlling I'd want the cold air vent up high near to the exhaust fan so it's not drawing the cold or hot outside air in over my hands. It would also avoid excess drafts around the working area.

For those of you poo-pooing the idea of this for lead control fumes consider that it's still a nice setup for indoor use even if it ONLY controls the smoke and fumes given off during ingot making or due to the fluxing process. And even for using this during solvent cleaning of our guns since it avoids the fumes from solvents being breathed in or stinking up the house if the shop shares a common door.

[a.squibload]

You have the airflow concept figured out.
Exact description of an acid hood used in a
lab or IC production facility.

For those who want an outside air supply
I suggest it be near the hood, not INTO the
hood. Air will flow from the room into the
hood keeping stinky stuff from entering the
room. Just have to sacrifice some conditioned
air!

[Three44s]

I will have control of my outside air source and over placement of where and how it enters the "pot" area.

Also, after a few decades of casting ....... I also trust my senses to tell me which way the smoke moving.

If the outside air helps define it's journey into the hood and it needs refinement, I'll refine it. If it proves fool hardy ...... I'll axe it.

For point of clairification, I don't intend to discharge the fresh air so close to hood inlet so as to be counterproductive. The closest I could conceive releasing it would be below the pot base.

First I'll try it without further ducting and that places it a four or five feet away and below the future casting bench.

I've cast outdoors. I have smelted entirely outdoors. I've cast in a garage with all the doors open. In all these instances, I have dealt with smoke. I trust my senses and native intelligence enough to know when I have improved on those "open air" solutions.

Best regards

Three 44s

[b2948kevin]

74057

I don't always cast boolits, but when I do, I do it inside with the windows and garage door open...

[dilly]

Don't forget to account for weight. Probably not an issue for normal rooms but if you want to store thousands of pounds of lead in your reloading room that might be a consideration when building.

This is a heavy hobby.

[David2011]

Here is an older shot of my casting table. It's in the middle of the shop, underneath the ceiling fan. To the left is a wall-unit a/c and to the right is the door, and also two windows that I can open up in cooler weather to vent flux fumes.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53424&d=1336269281


:coffee:

Recluse,

Is that a Seal Team target in the corner? :-D

[1500FPS]

Outdoors if at all possible.

[MGySgt]

I have a stack of them, plus the full size with BG's with AK47's and hostages and no shoot ones.

[Smoke4320]

in room next to garage.. table is moved in front of door with fan blowing from behind my back to door opening .. That way I can cast day/night rain shine or snow..

[David2011]

Newshooter,

The dangers of handling molten lead are often misunderstood. When I started casting on my own without the supervision of my mentor I did considerable research on the subject. Dromia is right; the temperatures at which we cast are far below the vapor pressure point of lead. It has to be over 1100* F in order to vaporize. Indoor shooting ranges with inadequate ventilation systems are a far greater risk due to the lead blown into the air from primers. If you keep your hands clean and don't eat or smoke without washing thoroughly you have avoided most of the lead issues already. If you handle lead and smoke a cigarette the lead transfers to the wrapper. When the paper burns it can vaporize miniscule amounts of lead which you are inhaling.

I'm building a new casting area right now. It's indoors because where I live it's hotter in the summer and colder in the winter than I care to deal with if not in climate control. There's ventilation to remove the fluxing smoke but that's all. The pot is never hotter than 800 degrees so lead vapors just won't exist. I've been casting indoors since I built my previous shop about 6 years ago. Smelting the raw WW, scrap lead and range pickings will continue to be done outdoors where I'm fortunate enough to have natural gas at the driveway of my new shop- no more propane bottles!

David