1858 Remington with Kirst or R&D conversion in possession of the St. Monica psycho

[old_haidouk]

I thought I'd never see this, but apparently the St Monica gunman had knowledge about guns, he converted a 58 Rem to 45 Colt, that may bring up the fact that one can technically have an unregistered firearm by buying the cap n ball and the conversion separately with no paperwork...

[bigted]

knowing this is something but saying it outloud is going to be a temptation to all scumbags to draw un-needed attention to this fact. SHHHHH.

[44Vaquero]

Having reviewed the picture in question I feel inclined to point out several things:
1. It appears to an R&D style conversion by it's apparent design elements.

2. The 1858's frame was not altered (I.E. no notch for a loading gate had been cut) The law as it currently stands requires that the frame be altered before it can be considered a unregistered firearm and even then the person who altered it would be allowed to legally posses it, it is not however transferable.

3. Note, however, that is the Federal law. Your State and local laws may vary.


4. Component parts are just that until assemble, now The ATF has different levels of interpreting what constitutes an unregistered device and they include intent! Example, possession of a fore grip that fits on a hand gun owned or component parts for a suppressor even though never assembled they will claim "intent". This is the Federal law. Your State and local laws may vary. Most certainly he broke many state laws in respect to firearms ownership in Califorina.

[John Taylor]

At one time if the gun was chambered for a cartridge that was not obtainable through the normal chain of commerce it would remain an antique. I did several to 44 Colt and then the ATF told me the internet was the normal chain of commerce, basically saying " don't do it again". Kirst and R&D both have drop in cylinders that will work without altering the frame, just need to take the cylinder out for loading. Was looking at the laws a while back and it appears that some of the words have been changed to read anything that uses fixed ammo is a firearm. Don't remember if it was just in Washington state or fed. Just a few words in the law can make the difference of time in jail or not.

[44Vaquero]

John, I think conversion of an antique and conversion of a reproduction are 2 distinctly different situations? The ATF's operative word is manufactured, once a handgun has been "manufactured" it cannot be transferred with being registered.

If you use a drop in cylinder in a cap and ball revolver and you did not modify the frame whatsoever, then if you were to remove the drop in cylinder it is no longer a "firearm" covered under the Gun Control Act (GCA) because it is once again an "antique".
However, if you modify the frame like to file away a spot and add a loading gate for a cylinder which is not drop in cylinder for instance (like with a Kirst conversion), then the "antique" is not longer an "antique" and is a firearm under the GCA. What that means is that if you wanted to sell it or transfer it to someone else, it is restricted and regulated with or without the cylinder still in it in this particular case.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Not to change the topic, but. The "black rifle" that they couldn`t be traced back to ownership was because he had assembled it from parts he purchased and the lower reciever was an unfinished model that he finished milling.Robert