22 Hornet and cast alloy ?

[CPL Lou]

I was wondering if any of you have used cast boolits in a 22 Hornet ?
What alloy did you use ?
What kind of loob and what velocities are obtainable before leading reared its ugly head ?
Any load suggestions would be appreciated as well.

Thanks !

CPL Lou

[Green Lizzard]

52 grain lyman fp aa 1680 pretty much full power loads from aa book alloy was a 12 bhn acc was very good in t/c carbine

[CPL Lou]

I have 2400 powder, CR and 2500+ loobs.
#2 alloy, wheel weight alloy and some tin for boolits.
The mold will cast about 40grs and has a gas check.
I may be able to get other powders but not without some difficulty.

Thanks for any responses !

CPL Lou

[303Guy]

2400 is the original hornet powder and produced 2400 fps in factory loads, hence the name.

[Sensai]

Which mould are you using? I use Lyman's 225438, usually with air cooled wheel weights. The only time I go harder than that is when I'm trying to go fast, and that's not often. I have heard that 2400 will do the job in the Hornet, but since I started using Lil'Gun I haven't needed to try any thing else. I do use TrailBoss when I want to emulate 22LR performance. Try with and without crimping and use small pistol primers. Hot primers destroy accuracy in that case and some rifles like crimps and some don't. I'm a 22 Hornet addict with both cast and jacketed bullets, but it's more fun with cast!

[303Guy]

I use Federal small rifle primers. I believe they are the weakest of the rifle primers and with my loading technique, produced fine accuracy and very high velocity using Lil'Gun and 55gr j-words and no neck sizing. I have been wondering how Lil'Gun would work for cast boolits. I have in the past 'glued' bullets into the case mouth using a molten wax mix. I would seat a card wad to the correct depth and place the waxed bullet into the upright case mouth and let the wax set. These were good got magazine use. I'm thinking of doing the same with cast.

[CPL Lou]

I'll be using this mold:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?130758-225107-noe-sgb

I'm actually getting this mold as a gift to the guy that mows my lawn for me (my MS and service conected injuries makes mowing nearly impossible).
He has an old Savage 340 that just begs to be shot with cast boolits !
Thanks for the input folks, will make this venture a bit easier !

CPL Lou

[Green Lizzard]

i also tested primers and found the sp primers the best, tried lil gun around 10 yrs ago and it turned out to be a recalled batch had wild press with min loads havent tried it again 2400 and 1680 worked best for me. my best acc came at 2000 or so fps but all the way up to 2400 fps was ok my alloy wasnt that hard,sized at .225 with a honed out lee push thru

[bearbud]

I use the Lee Bator. Sized and GC at 0.225" with 2500+ lube. The alloy is 3 COWW to 2 lead + little tin.
Cases are Hornady or PRVI with F100 primers and either 2400 or Unique. I like to be at the 1900-2000fps.
No leading.

[CPL Lou]

Thanks folks for all the tips !
One of the reasons I enjoy being a member here, lots of useful help whenever someone asks for it.

CPL Lou

[altheating]

I use the BRP 226-47 GC in all 5 of my Hornets and K Hornets. Wheel weight and a bit of lino for all of the boolits. Speed Green or Lotak lube allows for max loads with absolutely no leading. I use IMR 4227 powder and Tula SP primers and homemade gas checks with a Freechex III tool. I would not load them for highest possible velocity, I would load em so you get the best accuracy out of your gun. I have never had a pigeon, crow, chipmunk or starling complain about the load being to slow. I just emptied a 8 lb jug of IMR4227 powder, that's a lot of hornet shooting in a year!

[country gent]

CPUlou, The original oad was a 45 grn cast lead bullet way back when. My Hornet performs very well with lil gn and neck sized cases. Watch the headspace on these rifles for best case life. I too have MS, Its a pain in the *** but can be delt with to an extent. I would look for a mould in the 45-50 grn range. As most hornets twists are getting iffy for longer bullets. Have fun, dont give up, and enjoy the ride here

[303Guy]

I tried RCBS 55 FN gas checked boolits with H4227. They shot about the same as whatever j-words I tried which was rather mediocre. No sign of boolit yaw. That was with new unfired cases. Considering that my rifle has a large chamber and the castings were poor, I think it didn't do too badly.

Case life can be extended to virtually forever if one lubes the loaded cases. It will not overstress the action or cause the world to come to an end - just extend case life. One needs to use enough lube to prevent case wall grip in the chamber. Cases do not grow doing this.

The 1-in-16 twist stabilizes a 55gr boolit just fine but would probably be iffy around transonic velocity (won't stabilize at all) and may not be enough at subsonic. Long spitzers can be written off - they won't stabilize. 55gr spizer semi-boat tail work fine and so do 60gr spire points. Just saying the twist rate of the hornet is not an issue if one keeps the velocity up and posibly at lower velocity if the boolit is a flat or round nose.

[altheating]

303guy, Are you using Imperial Sizing Wax for the loaded cases?

[DLCTEX]

ACWW, Lyman 225438, SP primers in Ruger 77/22 and Tarus Raging Hornet.

[303Guy]

303guy, Are you using Imperial Sizing Wax for the loaded cases?I'm using STP Smoke Stopper. Because I don't neck size, the case actually headspaces on the case mouth. It does crimp in slightly but not enough to prevent fitting a paper hand towel cup into which the bullet gets seated then 'glued' in by soaking in molten 'waxy lube'. I haven't tried this trick with cast but one day I will. The hornet is beginning to feel neglected.

[mikeym1a]

The father of the Hornet was the .22 WCF. It fired a lead 45gr boolit at 1500fps using black powder. So, shouldn't be any problem using cast in the Hornet. The two cases are identical. Neat little case. Have fun.

[Bullshop]

I think the 22 wcf used .228" boolits so there was more difference than just the type of powder used.

[altheating]

Yup, them Hornet's do shoot well. I shot this tonight, 70 yards, BRP 226-47, 12gr LilGun, Tula SP Primers. Cases sized with the Lee Collet Sizer, Crimped with the Lee Factory Crimp Dies. Boolits cast with WW and 2lbs of lino per pot water quenched.73948

[303Guy]

Ooh! That looks good! So Lil'Gun burns well at such a low loading then (low compared to what I was using!) I'd heard of unburned powder with lighter loads. I've mentioned on another thread how one fellow was loading 40gr copper plated boolits (I think - 22 magnum) over a full to the mouth case of Lil'Gun and was getting over 3000 fps with them.

[gnoahhh]

I've been shooting 225438's (unknown alloy- received from a kind forum member), seem to be approx. #2 alloy, GC'ed and sized to .223". Powder charge- 2gr. Bullseye. Primer- Alcan small pistol, CCI small pistol primers perform equally. Haven't gotten around to chronographing it. Accuracy is a solid 3/4" at 50 yds., repeatedly. Gun: pre-war German single shot hammerless stalking rifle, 5.6x35R (same as Hornet, but with a .221" groove diameter). I'm loving this little rifle!

[cummins05]

I have been using the 225438 with range lead and have had some pretty darn good results so far I have only used 2400 and h110 powder small rifle primers seem to work better than small pistol for me and I just love shooting my little hornet

[mikeym1a]

I think the 22 wcf used .228" boolits so there was more difference than just the type of powder used.
Just checked, and indeed a .228 boolit was used, but the MV quoted was correct. Not sure why bore dia was reduced, but, probably to match the other .22's out there. Must be a book on it somewhere.....

[303Guy]

Well, the first really high velocity small bore was the 22 Savage High Power which was .228. It's performance would be identical to the 223.

[cummins05]

Sounds like the high power would be a different kind of rifle was it still a rim fire ?

[mikeym1a]

Sounds like the high power would be a different kind of rifle was it still a rim fire ?
According to Wikipedia, if it is to be trusted, The .22 Savage Hi Power was developed by Charles Newton and produced by Savage in 1912. So, it predates the Hornet by nearly 20 years as a 'factory' cartridge. The Savage was also a .228, like the .22 WCF. Why .228? Was that an established bore size in the late 1800's? The .22 rimfires were .223, unless my knowledge is incomplete. Curious. Any ideas, anyone?

[mikeym1a]

According to Wikipedia, if it is to be trusted, The .22 Savage Hi Power was developed by Charles Newton and produced by Savage in 1912. So, it predates the Hornet by nearly 20 years as a 'factory' cartridge. The Savage was also a .228, like the .22 WCF. Why .228? Was that an established bore size in the late 1800's? The .22 rimfires were .223, unless my knowledge is incomplete. Curious. Any ideas, anyone?

Forgot to say, the .22SHP is a rimmed cartridge, but not a rimfire. It is a centerfire. Wiki quotes Barnes' 'Cartridges of the World' to say that it was loaded with a 70gr bullet at 3000fps. Quite a zipper (no, that's another cartridge).

[303Guy]

One can still get a 22 Savage equivalent in the 22/30-30 wildcat.

The 22 WCF was introduced in 1885. The 22 WCF led to the 22 Hornet in the 1920's at the Springfield Armoury. Not sure why the armoury would have been interested by civilian wildcatters played a role. Source; Wikipedia.

Wikipedia has become quite good and is probably the most comprehensive source of information on the web. They can be notified of errors if detected. I've seen information being updated on it and errors corrected.

[303Guy]

One can still get a 22 Savage equivalent in the 22/30-30 wildcat.

The 22 WCF was introduced in 1885. The 22 WCF led to the 22 Hornet in the 1920's at the Springfield Armoury. Not sure why the armoury would have been interested by civilian wildcatters played a role. Source; Wikipedia.

Wikipedia has become quite good and is probably the most comprehensive source of information on the web. They can be notified of errors if detected. I've seen information being updated on it and errors corrected.

[Nickle]

Wkipedia is composed of us, the users. I've even posted material there myself. Edited and corrected, too.

[Bullshop]

Just checked, and indeed a .228 boolit was used, but the MV quoted was correct. Not sure why bore dia was reduced, but, probably to match the other .22's out there. Must be a book on it somewhere.....
The diameter was reduced because when they were developing the 22 Hornet at Springfield armory they were using Savage and Springfield 22 RFs converted to CF for test platforms.
Townsend Whelen had his hands in the mix at Springfield armory and had one of the very first hornet rifles. I believe his was on a Springfield 22RF trainer.

[Mk42gunner]

In my opinion, when the "developers" of the .22 Hornet came up with the round; they took the .22 WCF case and chambered it in barrels that were bored for the .22 LR round, thus the reason the older Hornets were speced with .223 groove diameter bores. When later .22 centerfires used .224" it took several years for the Hornet to catch up.

There was a very successful effort to divorce the .22 Hornet from the .22 WCF, so much so that I bet not one in one hundred Hornet owners know the original case. I think I finally read of the connection in an article by Roy Dunlap in one of the older Gun Digests from the late sixties or seventies.

Robert

[mikeym1a]

One can still get a 22 Savage equivalent in the 22/30-30 wildcat.

The 22 WCF was introduced in 1885. The 22 WCF led to the 22 Hornet in the 1920's at the Springfield Armoury. Not sure why the armoury would have been interested by civilian wildcatters played a role. Source; Wikipedia.

Wikipedia has become quite good and is probably the most comprehensive source of information on the web. They can be notified of errors if detected. I've seen information being updated on it and errors corrected.

I noted on Wiki re .22 Savage Hi-Power, that Hornady is now making a .227 bullet for that round. So, if someone had a Hi-Power that they wanted to shoot, other than boolits, they now have a source.