300 Black Out - what is this?

[Cane_man]

guys, please educate this poor fool, what is a 300 Blackout and why is it so popular? i read where cb folks are referring to it, what do you typically use this caliber for? :2 drunk buddies:

[Sgtonory]

Its like 7.62x39 but can use .223 brass to make 300blk brass. And it is .308 bore. And can also use heavy bullets for subsonic loads. It was designed by AAC for something that would kill and still be subsonic. Have a Ar kit on order for this caliber i will use it to shoot a ar in 30cal on the cheap.

[sparky45]

I use it because it's fun to shoot and can be loaded subsonic. It is a 30 cal. round that works well in my AR15 platform for outstanding target shooting as well as an excellent round for most large game in North America. I wouldn't hesitate to take a Whitetail with this round or a large sized Hog. It's just plain fun to shoot and I can still use magazines I would normally use for 5.56 rounds. I load anywhere from 110gr to 247gr projectiles, what's not to like.

[MtGun44]

Roughly, it approximates the .30 carbine, perfected for the AR platform.

Bill

[27judge]

Mine is a ar15 platform .Great cast bullet shooter ,well under 1 inch at 50 yards with 1680 and a rcbs 180 sil. gc bullets. Grandkids love to plink with this gun and its cheap to shoot. Mine has yet to see a jacket bullet yet but I have some 125 Noslers I want to try Great cal. tks ken

[Artful]

300 Blackout is an update of 300 Whisper cartridge of JD Jones fame - It's a cast boolit friendly 30 caliber for use in AR15's and other guns - Advantage is to change from .223 to 300 Blackout you just have to change the barrel on your AR15. It's a shortened 223 case that's been necked up to handle larger 30 cal bullets and still fit in AR magazines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC_Blackout_(7.62%C3%9735mm)
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/300blk.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Five_bullets.jpg/250px-Five_bullets.jpg
The 300 AAC Blackout plastic tipped, left, compared to 300 AAC BLACKOUT 125 match, 300 AAC BLACKOUT 220 subsonic, 5.56x45mm, and 7.62×39mm.


Roughly, it approximates the .30 carbine, perfected for the AR platform.

Bill


30-30 Winchester HP 125 2570
30-30 Winchester SPRN 150 2390
30-30 Winchester SP 170 2200

7.62x39 Soft Point 124 2330
7.62x39 Soft Point 154 2104

300 AAC Blackout DPX 110 2400
300 AAC Blackout BT 125 2250
300 AAC Blackout BTHP 155 1990
300 AAC Blackout FMJ 240 1000

30 Carbine FMJ 110 gr 1,990 ft/s

Hmm - with 125 grain or as close as you can get in 30 Carbine, the 300 Blackout is 300 fps slower than 30-30, less then 100 fps slower than 7.62x39 but over 200 fps faster with a heavier load than 30 carbine.

You can't load 150 or heavier in 30 carbine - but you can in 30-30, 7.62x39 and 300 Blackout - with 150 grain your 400 fps slower than 30-30, and 100 fps slower than 7.62x39 with your 300 blackout.

so VERY Roughly, I'd say it a 30-30 light before I'd say it's a 30 Carbine.

http://300aacblackout.com/

DESIGN OBJECTIVES
• Create a reliable compact 30-cal solution for the AR platform
• Utilize existing inventory magazines while retaining their full capacity
• Create the optimal platform for sound and flash suppressed fire
• Create compatible supersonic ammo that matches 7.62x39 ballistics
• Provide the ability to penetrate barriers with high-mass projectiles
• Provide all capabilities in a lightweight, durable, low recoiling package

[DCP]

What everyone said above
PLUS
A good reason to buy a couple new rifles.[smilie=w:

[Moonie]

It is fun to shoot and is just about the perfect cast boolit platform. Both of ours have been accurate with every boolit we have tried in them.

[Cane_man]

do you use a die to neck up the trimmed .223 cases?

and what is AAC?

[DCP]

do you use a die to neck up the trimmed .223 cases?

and what is AAC?

Yes

http://www.advanced-armament.com/

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/index.php?sid=514df34acbbf2bd6482dba78a2571623

[dakotashooter2]

I use it because it's fun to shoot and can be loaded subsonic. It is a 30 cal. round that works well in my AR15 platform for outstanding target shooting as well as an excellent round for most large game in North America. I wouldn't hesitate to take a Whitetail with this round or a large sized Hog. It's just plain fun to shoot and I can still use magazines I would normally use for 5.56 rounds. I load anywhere from 110gr to 247gr projectiles, what's not to like.

Just a note: For years the 7.62 x 39 has been deemed as an adequate "short range" (150-175 yards max ) cartridge for large game. 15-20 years ago most often it was catagorized with the 30-30 in terms of range and effectiveness for large game. The blackout having similar balistics I'm not sure I would want someone to think of it as a 300-400 yard cartridge for big game but sometimes thats the impression one gets.

[bruce drake]

I'm a realist. Its less than a 30-30 and more than a .30 Carbine. I call my 300BLK AR15 a .30 Carbine+ as its definitely an improvement over the .30 carbine cartridge and in a Semi-auto format as well. AS an Ethical Hunter, 150 yards is a long shot for this cartridge but within its performance envelope if using the right 125gr bullet.

Bruce

[MtGun44]

Not to be too argumentative, but please explain why one cannot load a heavier boolit or
bullet into a .30 carbine?

Probably the most precise thing you can say is that the .300 BO has slightly more powder
capacity than the .30 Carbine, and quite a bit less than the .30-30, so that pretty much
sets what is ballistically possible at comparable pressures. The typical guns are apples
and oranges, but there are a few boltgun .30-30s out there. Mag length limits
what can be done also, unless you want to single load.

In any case, it brings a modest power .30 cal cartridge to the AR platform with
a simple change of barrel. Lots of interesting things that can be done with it, and
the velocities are in a good range for boolits, too. With modern powders and now
wonder jbullets, it should be a workable deer cartridge at shorter ranges.

Bill

[Boz330]

Not to be too argumentative, but please explain why one cannot load a heavier boolit or
bullet into a .30 carbine?
l

You probably could to a certain extent but it would take up a lot of case space in doing so because of the mag length. I shoot some 130s in mine but the spire point 125s would be much longer than a 130 RN.

Bob

[JSH]

It is a cure for a problem that didn't exisit.
Jeff

[DeanWinchester]

I've driven a 175g SMK up to 2K fps in a savage 110 action.

Some will want to argue but with the right load, the .300 BLK will duplicate just about anything the .30 WCF can do.

[DeanWinchester]

It is a cure for a problem that didn't exisit.
Jeff

The AR15 is without argument, the most prolific rifle in america right now. Fitting it with a caliber that hits a little harder, meets certain criteria for hunting in many states ALL THE WHILE fitting the Stoner platform without modification using everything but the barrel itself.

It is VERY cast boolit friendly, cheap and easy to make, light on recoil......

You just can't sell some people a good idea I suppose[smilie=l:

[Artful]

Well Jeff (JSH), the problem JD Jones was solving was a more hard hitting round in Subsonic from AR15/M16 rifle platform for special ops missions
that required quiet sentry elimination but ability to change quickly to supersonic longer range harder hitting ammo. The 300 Blackout was created to clean up some of the issues with making 300 whisper cases from 223 brass instead of 221 fireball brass.

What cartridge that works in the AR15/M16 family does a better job?

[lksmith]

guys, please educate this poor fool, what is a 300 Blackout and why is it so popular? i read where cb folks are referring to it, what do you typically use this caliber for? :2 drunk buddies:


In short it is a SAAMI version of the Proprietary SSK 300 Whisper. Being SAAMI spec any factory loader or gun MFG can make and sell guns and ammo without having to pay a royalty for the privilege of using the proprietary caliber name

[longranger]

AAC= Advanced Armament Co. The 300BLK has a very fast twist barrel 1:7 or 1:8 and a few variations,.30 Carbine has a slow twist barrel to optimize 110gr. j bullets. Any .223 can be converted with just a barrel swap. I shoot turkeys(silhouette) in the head @ 400m using 17.0 grs. Lil'Gun and 110gr. Hornady VMax. in my Rem 700. Also the 300 BLK gets all of it's velocity in less than 9" of barrel making it a superb AR-15 pistol cartridge with a suppressor, it is a easily suppressed cartridge sonic and subsonic unlike .308Win or the bigger .30 cals.I have both AR-15(D.D. Ambush) and bolt action 300BLK. Most fun I have had with a smokeless cartridge in years.
It can use virtually all of the .30 cal bullets and a wide range of powders(Magnum pistol and shotgun) in a bolt action rifles a bit more selective for semi auto's.

[L1A1Rocker]

300 Blackout is an update of 300 Whisper cartridge of JD Jones fame - It's a cast boolit friendly 30 caliber for use in AR15's and other guns - Advantage is to change from .223 to 300 Blackout you just have to change the barrel on your AR15. It's a shortened 223 case that's been necked up to handle larger 30 cal bullets and still fit in AR magazines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_AAC_Blackout_(7.62%C3%9735mm)
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/300blk.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Five_bullets.jpg/250px-Five_bullets.jpg
The 300 AAC Blackout plastic tipped, left, compared to 300 AAC BLACKOUT 125 match, 300 AAC BLACKOUT 220 subsonic, 5.56x45mm, and 7.62×39mm.




30-30 Winchester HP 125 2570
30-30 Winchester SPRN 150 2390
30-30 Winchester SP 170 2200

7.62x39 Soft Point 124 2330
7.62x39 Soft Point 154 2104

300 AAC Blackout DPX 110 2400
300 AAC Blackout BT 125 2250
300 AAC Blackout BTHP 155 1990
300 AAC Blackout FMJ 240 1000

30 Carbine FMJ 110 gr 1,990 ft/s

Hmm - with 125 grain or as close as you can get in 30 Carbine, the 300 Blackout is 300 fps slower than 30-30, less then 100 fps slower than 7.62x39 but over 200 fps faster with a heavier load than 30 carbine.

You can't load 150 or heavier in 30 carbine - but you can in 30-30, 7.62x39 and 300 Blackout - with 150 grain your 400 fps slower than 30-30, and 100 fps slower than 7.62x39 with your 300 blackout.

so VERY Roughly, I'd say it a 30-30 light before I'd say it's a 30 Carbine.

http://300aacblackout.com/

DESIGN OBJECTIVES
• Create a reliable compact 30-cal solution for the AR platform
• Utilize existing inventory magazines while retaining their full capacity
• Create the optimal platform for sound and flash suppressed fire
• Create compatible supersonic ammo that matches 7.62x39 ballistics
• Provide the ability to penetrate barriers with high-mass projectiles
• Provide all capabilities in a lightweight, durable, low recoiling package

Just for the sake of trying to equalize all the variables; what were the barrel lengths on those loads?

I ask because most of the published data for 30 30 is from a 24 inch barrel while all published date for the BLK is from a 16 inch barrel. It makes a BIG difference when trying to evaluate/compare ammunition.

[Jupiter7]

More thump, same platform. I love the 3 I have. My 10" AR pistol will hang with big boys out to 200yds. It's a natural for cast. I get 110gr bullets going right at 2200fps in a 10" barrel. I believe velocity loss is roughly 23fps per inch of barrel, 16" being optimal length. For .223 it's like 26" and .308 is like 22". Not to mention powder charges are roughly 10-20grs and most use magnum pistol/shotgun powders like h110, lil gun, 2400.

My favorite boolit is a noe clone of the ranch dog 311-165, drops 311 at 170grs. I push it with 14grs of lil gun in a 10" AR pistol for 1700fps. Tumble lubed with alum. checks, it's cheap shooting. It'll cloverleaf at 100yds.

[Artful]

Just for the sake of trying to equalize all the variables; what were the barrel lengths on those loads?

I ask because most of the published data for 30 30 is from a 24 inch barrel while all published date for the BLK is from a 16 inch barrel. It makes a BIG difference when trying to evaluate/compare ammunition.

http://www.ballistics101.com/
doesn't show barrel length just factory listings with velocity & energy - you do have a point

30 Carbine
110 gr (7 g) FMJ 606.5 m/s (1,990 ft/s) 1,311 J (967 ft·lbf) Test barrel length: 457.2mm/18 inches Source(s): Winchester [1]

300 Blackout
125 gr (8 g) OTM 2,215 ft/s (675 m/s) 1,360 ft·lbf (1,840 J)
220 gr (14 g) OTM 1,010 ft/s (310 m/s) 498 ft·lbf (675 J)
Test barrel length: 16 inch

7.62x39 Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
7.9 g (122 gr) Full metal jacket 730.3 m/s (2,396 ft/s) 2,108 J (1,555 ft·lbf)
10.0 g (154 gr) Spitzer SP 641.3 m/s (2,104 ft/s) 2,056 J (1,516 ft·lbf)
8.0 g (123 gr) Full metal jacket 738.0 m/s (2,421 ft/s) 2,179 J (1,607 ft·lbf)
Test barrel length: 415 mm / 16 11/32 inches
Source(s): Wolf Ammo[1] Sellier & Bellot [2]

30-30 Winchester 24 in barrel
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdoors/resource/remington_charts/3030wbal.htm
Velocity (ft./sec.)
150 SPCL 2390
170 HPCL 2200

I have not seen a chart with same length barrel for each shown

[garym1a2]

With the Blackout its cheaper to load than the .223 or 5.56.
I can load a 155gr cast lead bullet that makes 1800fps and only costs are 3 cents for primer, 3 cents for gas check and 5 cents for powder. My lead and time is free.
For the .223 I need the 3 cents for the primer, 8 cents for powder and 10 cents for a bullet if i can find one.
So basicily its 21 cents for the .223 verse 11 cents a round for the blackout.
P.S. I could get a gas check maker or find gas checks right now. But bullets for the .223 are impossible to find.

[Cane_man]

so if you were to make an AR, just make sure you make it so that the barrels can be swapped out, one for 0.223 and one for 0.30? nothing else needs to be changed?

[sparky45]

so if you were to make an AR, just make sure you make it so that the barrels can be swapped out, one for 0.223 and one for 0.30? nothing else needs to be changed?

Basically that is correct.

[armedmoose]

so if you were to make an AR, just make sure you make it so that the barrels can be swapped out, one for 0.223 and one for 0.30? nothing else needs to be changed?

Yep just a Barrel Swap is needed if you have a 5.56/.223Rem AR15. You even can use your Nato 5.56 Magazines with no modifications, a 30 round 5.56 Mag will hold 30 rounds of 300AAC Blackout.

I don't live in a state where silencers are available.. maybe one day 8-). I am building a 300 Blackout AR15, since I am in one of the states that requires larger than .23 caliber to take deer. (Being an effective coyote and pig gun are just bonuses)
Another great feature of 300AAC is to switch magazines with Super and Subsonic ammo as needed. (Not that I would ever need this function, but no rifle changes to shoot super or subsonic is a plus.)

300AAC Blackout subsonic boolits are possible with LEE molds etc. Video comparing a suppressed MP5 vs an suppressed AR15 300AAC blackout (truth about guns blogger)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2WoPBLGYx8

[L1A1Rocker]

http://www.ballistics101.com/
doesn't show barrel length just factory listings with velocity & energy - you do have a point

30 Carbine
110 gr (7 g) FMJ 606.5 m/s (1,990 ft/s) 1,311 J (967 ft·lbf) Test barrel length: 457.2mm/18 inches Source(s): Winchester [1]

300 Blackout
125 gr (8 g) OTM 2,215 ft/s (675 m/s) 1,360 ft·lbf (1,840 J)
220 gr (14 g) OTM 1,010 ft/s (310 m/s) 498 ft·lbf (675 J)
Test barrel length: 16 inch

7.62x39 Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
7.9 g (122 gr) Full metal jacket 730.3 m/s (2,396 ft/s) 2,108 J (1,555 ft·lbf)
10.0 g (154 gr) Spitzer SP 641.3 m/s (2,104 ft/s) 2,056 J (1,516 ft·lbf)
8.0 g (123 gr) Full metal jacket 738.0 m/s (2,421 ft/s) 2,179 J (1,607 ft·lbf)
Test barrel length: 415 mm / 16 11/32 inches
Source(s): Wolf Ammo[1] Sellier & Bellot [2]

30-30 Winchester 24 in barrel
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdoors/resource/remington_charts/3030wbal.htm
Velocity (ft./sec.)
150 SPCL 2390
170 HPCL 2200

I have not seen a chart with same length barrel for each shown

Thank you very much for doing that. If, and it's a BIG if, you were to fire those BLK loads in a 24 inch barrel like the 30-30 you'd see velocities VERY close to one another. I do see a number of rifle length 30-30's in the 18-20 inch barrels, but I also see a number of carbine length 30-30 barrels too. These carbines would not get anywhere near the published data for 30-30 ammo.

I've read Robert Silvers write many times that he sometimes regrets specifying the 16 inch barrel on the BLK because of 30-30 comparison. BUT, the 16in specification was really needed so that there would be SAMMI specifications making sure that manufactures that wanted to make sub-sonic ammo - would actually BE sub-sonic.

[L1A1Rocker]

so if you were to make an AR, just make sure you make it so that the barrels can be swapped out, one for 0.223 and one for 0.30? nothing else needs to be changed?

And an appropriate length gas tube that may be different than your 223 barrel, depending. Most of the higher end barrels come with the gas tube, many do not.

[Springfield]

And before anybody says "just get a 7.62 x 39 upper", those tend to need different curved mags to work well. As I am in California(and now you New York and Colorado guys) that is an impossible option, whereas the BLK uses the few over-10 round AR mags that I have. Uses the same mags, uses cheap to convert .223 brass, uses the same bolt. Just doesn't get any better that that.

[Artful]

Cane_man - as the 300 Blackout can be run as Supersonic, Subsonic or both the gas port position can be important.
for Subsonic you see a lot of pistol or carbine position for Supersonic you see Carbine and a few rifle length gas tubes
but for the ultimate in versatility this one is probably it - dual port drilled barrel with variable gas feed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/bothports.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/bothports.jpg.html)

[lksmith]

Thank you very much for doing that. If, and it's a BIG if, you were to fire those BLK loads in a 24 inch barrel like the 30-30 you'd see velocities VERY close to one another. I do see a number of rifle length 30-30's in the 18-20 inch barrels, but I also see a number of carbine length 30-30 barrels too. These carbines would not get anywhere near the published data for 30-30 ammo.

I've read Robert Silvers write many times that he sometimes regrets specifying the 16 inch barrel on the BLK because of 30-30 comparison. BUT, the 16in specification was really needed so that there would be SAMMI specifications making sure that manufactures that wanted to make sub-sonic ammo - would actually BE sub-sonic.

with my loads and Chrono tests or 18" 30-30 with 180gr LFN Cast boolit vs. 16" 300blk with 125 JSP I get essentially the same muzzle energy. The 30-30 is 1470.49 FPE @ 1918FPS the 300BLK is 1477.94 FPE at 2308FPS
the ME formula I use is from the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 48th Edition which is (bullet wgt in grs x velocity squared) divided by 450400

[JSH]

I actually fishing as to my earlier comment in this thread.
I played with the 300 whisper in a 14" tc. AA #9 was my go to powder. It shot some excellent groups at 100. Did it perform to what the gun rags bragged it up to be? Not to what I had come to expect. As to brass, I used it all. My very best groups were shot when using 222 brass.
Don't want argue here nor ruffle feathers. I will discuss in civil manner.
Barrel length is as important as pressure when making comparisons. Then again so is case capacity and neck length. Then throw bullet weight in there. Then throw in rifle design.
Lighter up let's in a smaller case yup about the same. Medium weight bullets about the same. Go to a heavy not a chance. You can not replace cubic inches or horse power.
I know what I found in my findings. I used the tc and three barrels. 30-30, 30-20, and the 30x221 it was labeled 300 whisper and had 10 twist. Still have the 30-30 and 32-20. Brass for the whisper at that time was either pricey hard to get or wasted to much of my time. If JD had spent the money and got more ammo and loaded brass out there the whisper would have taken off a lot better IMHO.
An equal to the 30x221 comparison is actually the 32-20 rather than the 30 carbine. The 30-20 will do everything in a modern design that the 221 length case will in all bullet weights. I know I know it won't fit in an AR. But load development will work for both. I have the original stuff worked up by Sierra for the 30-20 back in the late 80's. it was never put into print though as throat lengths in the tc's were all over the place when compared to a bf or moa pistol.
Oh I will knuckle under and say it may have a use. I think it will still fall into the same fate as some of the other fad cartridges.
Have fun and cast is the bottom line for all of us. Keep going on this and I may have to buy me a new savage and rebarrel to a BO.
Jeff

[Artful]

It is a cure for a problem that didn't exisit.
Jeff


Well Jeff (JSH), the problem JD Jones was solving was a more hard hitting round in Subsonic from AR15/M16 rifle platform for special ops missions
that required quiet sentry elimination but ability to change quickly to supersonic longer range harder hitting ammo. The 300 Blackout was created to clean up some of the issues with making 300 whisper cases from 223 brass instead of 221 fireball brass.

What cartridge that works in the AR15/M16 family does a better job?


I actually fishing as to my earlier comment in this thread.
I played with the 300 whisper in a 14" tc. AA #9 was my go to powder. It shot some excellent groups at 100. Did it perform to what the gun rags bragged it up to be? Not to what I had come to expect. As to brass, I used it all. My very best groups were shot when using 222 brass.
Don't want argue here nor ruffle feathers. I will discuss in civil manner.

Barrel length is as important as pressure when making comparisons. Then again so is case capacity and neck length. Then throw bullet weight in there. Then throw in rifle design.

Exactly - and Rifle Design is where 300 Blackout fills a needed niche solution IMHO

Lighter up let's in a smaller case yup about the same. Medium weight bullets about the same. Go to a heavy not a chance. You can not replace cubic inches or horse power.

Works both ways - tougher to get 7.62x51/308 WCF Subsonic loads to work than 300 Whisper subsonic loads to work.
I actually bought some turned brass cases for 308 to reduce the capacity to make subsonic loads that would work the way I wanted.
Internal capacity between 300 Blackout and 7.62x39 cartridges.

I know what I found in my findings. I used the tc and three barrels. 30-30, 30-20, and the 30x221 it was labeled 300 whisper and had 10 twist. Still have the 30-30 and 32-20. Brass for the whisper at that time was either pricey hard to get or wasted to much of my time. If JD had spent the money and got more ammo and loaded brass out there the whisper would have taken off a lot better IMHO.

I think his requiring payment to use the Whisper name was what hurt it the most.

An equal to the 30x221 comparison is actually the 32-20 rather than the 30 carbine. The 30-20 will do everything in a modern design that the 221 length case will in all bullet weights. I know I know it won't fit in an AR. But load development will work for both. I have the original stuff worked up by Sierra for the 30-20 back in the late 80's. it was never put into print though as throat lengths in the tc's were all over the place when compared to a bf or moa pistol.

I would be nice if you could share that - Many 32-20 shooters out there.

Oh I will knuckle under and say it may have a use. I think it will still fall into the same fate as some of the other fad cartridges.
Have fun and cast is the bottom line for all of us. Keep going on this and I may have to buy me a new savage and rebarrel to a BO.
Jeff

Lots of good fad cartridges refuse to die, I seem to find myself attracted to them.

My List of fun FAD cartridges
45-70 - was a FAD now it's back more mainstream - at one point it was used guns mainly then Marlin brought it back and it took off.
375 Weatherby - just a blown out 375 H&H but I can buy (if I could afford) cartridges again.
375 WCF - really just a shortened 38-55 High Velocity from back in the day - still trucking along.
358 WCF - just a 308 necked up to 35 caliber but it's a great cast boolit rifle - and ammo shows up now an again.
7.62x38R - Stange little Nagant revolver with gas seal but it's amazing how many are out there. And ammo is again on the shelf
300 Whisper/Fireball/BlackOut - just a necked up 221 or cut down 223 but cast friendly and enjoying a surge in popularity.
If I thought about it I probably have more, but like the 32-20 All these seem to hang on and refuse to die because they are at heart practical cartridges for their intended uses and a pleasure to shoot.

Other's like my 41 Long Colt - I doubt will ever regain popularity.

[Artful]

30-30 chronograph comparison
http://www.realguns.com/archives/a017.htm

Contender MV ft/sec 14" Barrel VS. Marlin MV ft/sec 20" barrel

150 grain Bullet

IMR4895 35.5 CCI LR 2234 2215

-

AA2520 35.0 CCI LRM 2205 2162

-

Win748 37.0 CCI LRM 2213 2247

-

Win 748 37.3 CCI LRM 2215 2268

-

Factory Winchester PP 2196 2202

Notice not much difference with the extra 6 inches of barrel in 30-30 between 14 & 20
looks like loses about 150 fps between 20 & 24 though

30-30 Winchester 24 in barrel
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/Outdo...s/3030wbal.htm
Velocity (ft./sec.)
150 SPCL 2390

[Artful]

300 Blackout, 5.56 and 6.8 SPC - barrel length vs velocity
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3653/screenshot20120210at814.png

Doesn't look like the 300 gains that much as you lengthen the barrel

[felix]

Art, for S&G please graph the same barrel length detail for the BO and ACP at 1050 fps for 230 grainers, assuming each having a BC of 200 max. I am betting the BC value of each being the same will produce the identical results. ... TIA felix

[Artful]

Felix, sorry not my graph it was done on the 300 blackout sight by Mr. Silvers.

Best I can do for ya on your request is a link

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/mepngs/45auto.png

[felix]

Thanks for the graph, Art! And, the link, of course. Actually, the graph shows enough. ... felix

[DRNurse1]

You guys are making me seriously think of rifle shooting. Stop it, already.

[Artful]

Here let me help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKjbySsAik

[DRNurse1]

@ Artful:

They did not talk about the ballistic effect of wind on a heavier round in the video, but I can hunt with this beast! Talk about one rifle platform doing it all! Any information on using this platform for high power rifle competition?

[DCP]

Nice video

[ErikO]

Cane_man - as the 300 Blackout can be run as Supersonic, Subsonic or both the gas port position can be important.
for Subsonic you see a lot of pistol or carbine position for Supersonic you see Carbine and a few rifle length gas tubes
but for the ultimate in versatility this one is probably it - dual port drilled barrel with variable gas feed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/bothports.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/bothports.jpg.html)

Now THAT makes a ton of sense. I have to work that into my 300BLK plan. :D

[ErikO]

@ Artful:

They did not talk about the ballistic effect of wind on a heavier round in the video, but I can hunt with this beast! Talk about one rifle platform doing it all! Any information on using this platform for high power rifle competition?

Terminal ballistics over 300m can't keep up with an AR-10 in 7.62. Too short an impulse with the powder.

[Moonie]

Terminal ballistics over 300m can't keep up with an AR-10 in 7.62. Too short an impulse with the powder.

Of course not, it isn't what it was designed for. The M40 can't keep up with the M82 either...

[Ohio Rusty]

Interesting round. There is a subsonic round for the 7.62x39 rifles. It is a 230 grain boolit in the 7.62x39 russian round. . I'd like to try a subsonic round to see what it's like.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[DRNurse1]

With the Blackout its cheaper to load than the .223 or 5.56.
I can load a 155gr cast lead bullet that makes 1800fps and only costs are 3 cents for primer, 3 cents for gas check and 5 cents for powder. My lead and time is free.
For the .223 I need the 3 cents for the primer, 8 cents for powder and 10 cents for a bullet if i can find one.
So basicily its 21 cents for the .223 verse 11 cents a round for the blackout.
P.S. I could get a gas check maker or find gas checks right now. But bullets for the .223 are impossible to find.

I heard about swaging 22LR cases into 5.56 / .223 tips using pure lead cores. Does this eliminate the need to gas check? Sorry to you BP folks if this cuts in to your Pb supply. Any idea what the tools would cost to do this?

[garym1a2]

To swage .22 into .223 Jacket bullets cost about $800 to $1000, see swaging section for details. Plus its a lot of work.

I heard about swaging 22LR cases into 5.56 / .223 tips using pure lead cores. Does this eliminate the need to gas check? Sorry to you BP folks if this cuts in to your Pb supply. Any idea what the tools would cost to do this?

[pdawg_shooter]

It is a cure for a problem that didn't exisit.
Jeff

+ 1 on this. No real need for it, kind of like a 32mag.

[Artful]

+ 1 on this. No real need for it, kind of like a 32mag.

Oh, bunch of .32 fans heading your way now.

[LynC2]

There is also another .30 cal. ctg. variant using a cut down 5.56 case, the 7.62x40WT. It uses a 1-12 twist barrel, holds a bit more powder, but the down side of being a semi-wildcat. If one is reloading, it isn't an issue.
http://wilsoncombat.com/new/762x40-project.asp

74653