Need more speed.

[Dakotared]

I cast my own 9mm bullets with the lee 124gr TC tumble lube. I use W231 powder. My load is 3.4gr at 1.094. I want to use these for USPSA. My problem is they only chronograph at 850fps. I need to get them to 1000fps. If I put more powder in the bullets start to keyhole and lead up the barrel really bad. Should I try to seat the bullet deeper to try to get more speed? Any other ideas?

[btroj]

Get a better bullet. Ditch the TL bullet and use traditional lube.

You also could try a harder bullet. What are you sizing to? Is the case sizing the bullet base down?

Try a slower powder.

I would NOT seat them deeper. It will increase pressure. It may lead to feeding issues. Think about it, higher pressure isn't any different from adding more powder, is it?

Lots of options. Work on one variable at a time.

[jdgabbard]

^^^ This.

While one of my most accurate loads I've tried was with a tumble lube design, it was also very anemic. Some hardness helps. Size is king. I think it has more to do with bullet design and powder choice then it does many other things. I wouldn't seat deeper. You can't measure what the increase in pressure would be. Best to stay with published loads. I'd consider upping your charge, or changing powders.

[Dakotared]

My barrel slugged out at .356 my bullets are .358 straight clip on wheel weights. I can try to add tin and re up the powder but I think it may start to tumble again. I also have some red dot powder that I tried at 3.9 gr and that tumbled also.

No the case is not sizing it down.

[ku4hx]

My barrel slugged out at .356 my bullets are .368 straight clip on wheel weights. I can try to add tin and re up the powder but I think it may start to tumble again. I also have some red dot powder that I tried at 3.9 gr and that tumbled also.

No the case is not sizing it down.

You're loading .368" boolits and your case is not sizing them down at all? Regardless, you need to be staying within published start to max data and if it were me I'd change powder. I can easily get over 1,000 fps with your boolit of choice. In fact, minimum start charge of Power Pistol gets me a little over 1,100 fps; my standard PP load clocks consistently 1,150 fps and it's well under the max powder charge for 9mm 124 grain boolits.

[Dakotared]

I guess my next step is to try to find a lb of power pistol.

[outdoorfan]

I cast my own 9mm bullets with the lee 124gr TC tumble lube. I use W231 powder. My load is 3.4gr at 1.094. I want to use these for USPSA. My problem is they only chronograph at 850fps. I need to get them to 1000fps. If I put more powder in the bullets start to keyhole and lead up the barrel really bad. Should I try to seat the bullet deeper to try to get more speed? Any other ideas?


Which 9mm is that?

[ku4hx]

I guess my next step is to try to find a lb of power pistol.

It doesn't have to be PP, that was just an example and a choice I made. Do yourself a favor an get Lyman's Third Edition Pistol & Revolver Handbook. Page 143 has numerous loads for several boolits in your weight category with powders that meet your criteria.

Actually I've used all my PP and am going to Ramshot True Blue for a variety of reasons and a variety of cartridges. TB will also meet your needs as well as several other of their powders.

There are many good choices, you have to pick a powder that does what you want and a good reference source will help you do that. Powder maker's online load data can do the same.

[landers]

I agree with all of the above post. I recently have switched from 231 to slower powders for all on my 9mm loads. Lately I have been using Power Pistol because that was all I could find, beggars cant be choosers in this time of powder shortages. I have had good results and am waiting to find some other powders in the slower burn rate to try.

Landers

[Trifocals]

It would seem to me if your as cast bullet diameter is .368, you need a mold that will drop a smaller diameter bullet or you need to run your bullets through a sizer. Next, I would try either a harder alloy or start heat treating your bullets. Semi autos seem to prefer an alloy much harder than WW. A different lube may prove beneficial. Either of these suggestions may correct a leading problem. For more speed start trying slower burning powders. As a further suggestion, try a few commercially cast bullets. LOL Trifocals

[rsrocket1]

Are you sure it's not .358"?
My 120g Lee TC's drop at .357-.358 and I do have to size them down to .356 because my bore size is .3545 and the unsized bullets won't chamber fully because the throat is super tight.

I use 4.2g Unique and with the bullets seated at 1.09", I get just under 1100 fps. If seated out to 1.135, I could keep that speed with a bump up of powder. Unique can easily get your bullets to 1000 fps. You might also be gas cutting the bullets with such a light load of powder. I'm surprised your gun even cycles with such a low pf.

[Dakotared]

.358 not .368 bullet size.

[Dakotared]

my gun is a eaa witness 10mm with the 9mm conversion. I too was surprised when they were chronoing so low. I can not go out much farther then what I am at or the bullet will hit the rifling. At the load above I have no leading and the bullets shoot great. I just need to get more speed out of them. I think my neighbor has some Unique I will try to get some from him and see how that works.

[ku4hx]

my gun is a eaa witness 10mm with the 9mm conversion. I too was surprised when they were chronoing so low. I can not go out much farther then what I am at or the bullet will hit the rifling. At the load above I have no leading and the bullets shoot great. I just need to get more speed out of them. I think my neighbor has some Unique I will try to get some from him and see how that works.

Unique is a good choice and published cartridge OAL measurements are guides at best. You want the round to not be seated too deeply, but you also want it to not impinge on the rifling.

The only other thing I would add is it's a bit of a stretch, in my opinion, to expect a 9mm to horse around a gun set up for potentially top loads in 10mm. I've done it with 40 cal and a 40-9 conversion barrel but spring weights and slide mass for a 10mm may be part of your problem. But that's just a guess.

Why not just shoot cast 10mm? My favorite IDPA gun was a fully stock G20 with a cast 175 grain bullet. At about 1,100 fps it's functioning was flawless and the load in that rather hefty gun was very pleasant to shoot. My favorite powder for that 175 grain load was Green Dot.

[rockrat]

Try dropping the boolits in cold water when you cast them (water quench). Wheelweight should be fine. Your .358" should work fine, but use a regular sizer/lube with your TL boolits. Use one of the White Label lubes, I would go with 2500+, might be overkill , but I find the BAC a bit soft for my liking. I stiffen up the BAC with some CR.

[Dakotared]

I would love to shoot the 10mm in competition but I do not have a lot of brass for it and loosing brass is very high, also it shoots the 10mm brass 30 to 40 ft so finding them would be hard.

The 9mm conversion is a full top end swap. So the only thing the 9mm has to overcome is the hammer spring.

[ku4hx]

The 9mm conversion is a full top end swap.

OK, I mistakenly assumed when you commented about having a conversion barrel that was all. A full slide swap with 9mm RSA and extractor should work for you.

I understand about losing brass. That's no longer relevant for me, but I remember full well.

[blikseme300]

231 and HP38 are essentially the same powders. I use 4.2gn under the 124TC conventional lube sized to .357 without any of the problems the OP mentions. I don't think the powder is the problem my opinion is that the boolits are undersized. With what were they measured and are the boolits filled out properly? In the early days I use the TL boolits and found that if cast too cold or with too little tin then these boolits have a waist that is smaller than the shoulder. These keyholed as mentioned when pushed harder. With proper fill-out and tumble lubed they worked great.

[Dakotared]

Ok little up date to what I have going on. I am on the look out for some different powder. Should be meeting a guy this weekend to get some Blue Dot to try out. But in the mean time I have played with the W231 some and have some success when I seated the bullet down to 1.070. Not quite up to 1000 fps but the are up to about 975 fps with no tumbling or leading. I may try to seat a bit deeper to see where that gets me but I do look forward to seeing what the blue dot will do.

[Dakotared]

Finally got around to trying out the blue dot powder. Good stuff!! I got 1100fps no tumbling or leading. You damn near need to fill the case full but what I have seen so far it works great.

[300blk]

I use the noe 124 hp with pbgc loaded with 3n37 sized @ .357
range scrp coww 50/50
Loaded with coal 1.32
Win range pickup brass
Best accuracy for me was at 6.6grains chrono @10 ft @1310fps
Glock 34 5.31" factory bbl.
Max load listed is at 6.8 grains @ 1330 with 4 inch bbl
If you gotta make major: power pistol and 3n37 are the ticket.

[Dakotared]

I am happy with making minor for now. With W231 the best I could get was 930 to 950 fps. Now I am getting 1150 and have seen as high as 1220 fps. I need to get A LOT better at uspsa before I even think of trying to get major.

[captaint]

red - Just a suggestion when you get bored with the TL boolit. Go get yourself a Lee .356-120 REGULAR LOOB GROOVE edition. They're cheap enough and generally seem to drop out of the mold around .358.
Try pan lubing at first if you have to. Glad you got them right for your purposes, though. Mike

[MtGun44]

+1 on captaint, I find no need to water drop. Straight aircooled wwts works great
for me in many different 9s.

Bill

[Doble Troble]

I've had consistent problems with the Lee Alox tumble lube in 9s.

[jonp]

You might not have to go very far down the ladder to get what you are looking for. Universal might do the trick and is a clean powder. Unique is also a good 1st try I think with that weight boolit

[jonp]

Blue Dot is way down from where you were at. I'm glad it worked for you and there is never anything wrong with filling a case except it might get expensive but it is a 9mm. I've used Blue Dot in my 357 and 41Mag but never thought to give it a try in a 9mm

[casterofboolits]

BlueDot has always worked well for me in .380, 9mm and 38 Super. I used BD and a Wilson designed 158 grain SWC for my IPSC major loads. The load was easy on brass with no pressure problems at all. That led me to trying BD in 9mm with an H&G 275 125-SWCBB sized 357 for my BHP. Dime sized groups at 15 yards was normal.
+

[Boolseye]

I tried everything with the TL356-124TC–here's what works for me.
I use a .38/.357 expander plug. This may be tough with a standard die, because they aren't set up for the short length of a 9mm case. I have a Lyman multi-expander die, so it's not a problem. Opening up the mouth a bit more is necessary to prevent the case from squeezing down the cast bullet when it's seated. The .38 plug is much longer than a 9mm plug, so I try not to bulge the case with the expanding. A little ripple doesn't bother me, but the round has to chamber.*

The second thing I do is seat the bullet out to almost max OAL. With this bullet, I leave 2 micro bands exposed and crimp on the third one down, for an OAL of about 1.156. These feed and chamber beautifully in my SIG p226. This was a revelation for me.

(author's note: I seem to remember seating them w/ no grooves exposed and getting good results too. The main thing was the .38 expander)

Finally, I don't push them to max velocities, but I don't think a nine is quite a nine unless you can get it up to 900-1000 fps. So far with this method and modest charges of BE, Unique and 231 the bullets have been flying straight and leaving me with a clean bore.