45 acp / ar

[Greg_R]

I would like to know if the Lee 452-200-RF cast from wheel weights would be a good choice for a S&W 1917 US Army, or do I need something with a longer bearing surface?

[Larry Gibson]

That bullet shoots very well in my M1917 and in my SAA w/45 ACP cylinder. I suggest adding 2% tin to your COWWs and let them AC for 7 - 10 days before use. The M1917s have "shallow" rifling and a bit harder alloy works best. Hard to beat 5 gr of Bullseye under that bullet.

Larry Gibson

[ku4hx]

Properly loaded (size, lube, powder, OAL and etc.) it should work well.

[Piedmont]

S&W 1917s had the sights regulated for 230 grain loads.

[GLL]

You might consider the 452423 in Auto-Rim for the 1917.

http://www.fototime.com/EC1743E1362BCF4/medium800.jpg

Take a look at this from Char-Gar:

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/cba.htm

Jerry

[Scharfschuetze]

I've never tried the Lee 200 grain bullet, but the RCBS 200 grain SWC boolit cast from wheel weights has always shot well from my 1917s.

That 452423 bullet above sure looks like a winner in the AR. I'm going to have to do a search for that one.

I like to shoot the 230 grain RN cast from WWs or the comercial hard cast version as it goes to point of aim at 25 yards in my 1917 revolvers. As it is sans a crimp grove, I roll crimp the AR brass just past the boolit's ogive with good results.

[azrednek]

I like the full or button nosed SAECO. It drops apx 220-225. It is great as it follows the factory sights of my two 1937 Brazilian Model 1917.
Loaded with 4.5 Bullseye it prints nice clusters on paper

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/crimp-2.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/crimp-2.gif.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/wad-2.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/wad-2.gif.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/crimp-1.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/crimp-1.gif.html)

I've shot hundreds of the Lee 200 gr loaded with 4.0 Bullseye. Possibly one of my more accurate loads. With a 6 o'clock hold it will cluster about an inch high at short ranges.

[Char-Gar]

You might consider the 452423 in Auto-Rim for the 1917.

http://www.fototime.com/EC1743E1362BCF4/medium800.jpg

Take a look at this from Char-Gar:

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/cba.htm

Jerry

I fired my first bowling pin match last Saturday at age 70. I used my Smith 625 and 452423 in ACP cases over a dose of Bullseye. Any pin fairly hit was knocked off the table with power to spare. I won the match. 50 years and the bullet is still working for me.

[azrednek]

I fired my first bowling pin match last Saturday at age 70. I used my Smith 625 and 452423 in ACP cases over a dose of Bullseye. Any pin fairly hit was knocked off the table with power to spare. I won the match. 50 years and the bullet is still working for me.

First of all congrats on the bowling pin match!!


My preference for the lighter bullets in my 1937 Brazilian Model 1917 is the much milder recoil and wear and tear on the old war horse. The 200 gr Lee RNF on top of 4.0 Bullseye. Is gentle on my wrist and revolver as well. There is another 45 cal Lyman SWC in the 195-200gr, can't seem to rattle the mold number out of my slow brain at the moment that also does well in my Brazilian 45's with the 4.0 dose of BE.

The 452423 apparently was designed by a forward thinking person. The 452423 and the gas checked SAECO copy are my choice for 45 Colt but where it really shines is in the Ruger only loads. The gas checked SAECO version improves absolutely nothing in my Blackhawk but does improve the shot to shot accuracy slightly at 100 yards or more in stout loads in my Rossi lever action chambered in 45 Colt and a formerly owned Rossi in 454.

[MikeS]

well considering the person that designed the 452423 was Elmer Keith, and he designed it specifically for 45AR (45 Auto Rim, a rimmed version of the 45ACP specifically designed for shooting in the 1917 without using a half moon clip for those of you that didn't know that), and I've yet to see a genuine Keith designed boolit design that didn't work great, I would say it's probably the boolit to use in it. I know I have 45ACP rounds loaded with it specifically for my Smith 22-4. I shoot them loaded in full moon clips, AKA the best speed loaders a revolver can have, one that doesn't need to come off in use!

I've also loaded them in 45ACP cases pushed in a bit further, and shot them out of my 1911. Even tho they won't work in a 1911 (ask any old timer! :) ) they load just fine in my PT1911!

[azrednek]

I've also loaded them in 45ACP cases pushed in a bit further, and shot them out of my 1911. Even tho they won't work in a 1911 (ask any old timer! :) ) they load just fine in my PT1911!

I know the feeling!! My button nosed wad cutters wont work in a 1911 either or at least that is what I was often told. In all honesty though I wouldn't risk my life using them because I do get occasional FTF's in a semi. Not a big deal, promptly and easily fixed at the range often with just a bit of gentle encouragement sending the slide home.

Years ago when fanny packs were common. I carried a Star Firestar 45 cocked and locked. I carried it with a BN wad cutter on top of 5.5 grs of Bullseye in the chamber with Winchester Silver-Tips in the mag. Not sure it was Keith but one of the gun rag writers in the 70's recommended full wad cutters in a revolver as the best medicine for self defense. The writer's claim, the best way to stop an attack from a bad guy was to inflict as much pain and shock as possible on the first shot.

I posted the picture below years ago either here or the Handloader's group. One of the naysayers claimed the SAECO button nosed wad cutter when seated properly would not leave any space for a powder charge in the ACP cartridge.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/wad-1a.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/wad-1a.jpg.html)

[Dale53]

I have a pair of 625's chambered in .45 ACP. I mostly use the Auto Rim cases except when I need a quick reload (then it is .45 ACP with clips and the Lee 230 gr TC for "slick and quick" reloading.

My heavy bullet is an NOE copy of the Lyman 454424 (a better copy than many original Lyman moulds, sad to say). This bullet weighs 250 grs in my standard revolver bullet metal (WW's+2% tin) and sized at .452". I can safely drive it to 900+ fps and due to it's more effective shape is actually considerably better than the original .45 Colt load (about the same velocity with a MUCH better shaped bullet) - I consider that serious praise.

Here is that bullet in auto rim cases:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/4DalesPistolsRevolversSelects-3336.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/4DalesPistolsRevolversSelects-3336.jpg.html)

Dale53

[mac60]

I have a pair of 625's chambered in .45 ACP. I mostly use the Auto Rim cases except when I need a quick reload (then it is .45 ACP with clips and the Lee 230 gr TC for "slick and quick" reloading.

My heavy bullet is an NOE copy of the Lyman 454424 (a better copy than many original Lyman moulds, sad to say). This bullet weighs 250 grs in my standard revolver bullet metal (WW's+2% tin) and sized at .452". I can safely drive it to 900+ fps and due to it's more effective shape is actually considerably better than the original .45 Colt load (about the same velocity with a MUCH better shaped bullet) - I consider that serious praise.

Here is that bullet in auto rim cases:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/4DalesPistolsRevolversSelects-3336.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/4DalesPistolsRevolversSelects-3336.jpg.html)

Dale53

Sir, your casting and handloading skills are matched only by your photography skills.

[azrednek]

Sir, your casting and handloading skills are matched only by your photography skills.

I'm in 100% agreement. As another member refers to the 45AR as "Stumpy". Your photo with the NOE version of the 454424 loaded in Stumpy simply looks bad ***.

I've loaded up the AR case pretty hot with the SAECO version of the 454424 and used it in my 25-2. At first I got a real wake up call after being used to the lighter weight bullets with mild charges. It has been 5 or more years but best I recall it clustered well for me on paper. I also carried the 25-2 with the heavy loads on an unsuccessful Javalina hunt.

I'm down to one of four 1917's. One my step-son ruined, the other two I traded away. In the past I kept my 45 AR loads on the mild side in fear of over doing it in the ol'timers. My remaining 1917 is now pretty much a safe queen. After I get through the 4 or 500 mild AR's I have loaded up. I will do some more serious loading and shooting with my 25-2.

So far I've been happy with both the gas checked and non gas checked SAECO copy of the 454424. I had an older single cavity Lyman that didn't seem to do any better or worse than the SAECO. After seeing what the older Lyman 454424 was fetching on Ebay I let it go and used it to fund a double cavity SAECO plain base.