HP Accuracy

[silverjay]

I am probably doing something wrong, but my hollow points don't seem to shoot as accurately an non HP's. SWC's an ball shoot ragged holes at 12 yards. HP's shoot 5" group. Any ideas?

[jonp]

Are you reloading these yourself? If so, are you using the correct stem?

[fcvan]

It would be helpful if you provided more information such as caliber, weapon fired, boolit that works, boolit that doesn't work, size of boolit, measurement of bore after slugging, powder, charge weight, just to name a few. These details will help to sort out your issue.

[silverjay]

Here we go. Sig 229 and 239 in 9mm. Mihec and NOE hollow points over 5.0 grains of unique. Barrels slugged at 0.356 and 0.3555 respectively. Sizing to 0.358 and lubing with carnauba red. Cycle well, no leading. Bullet that shoots great :lee tl 124 same sizing and load.

[silverjay]

Are you reloading these yourself? If so, are you using the correct stem?

I am, I just checked the stem and that may be it. I was using the round bll stem and it barely captures the hp. The SWC stem captures it match better. Thanks.

[Bzcraig]

I too am interested in what input comes in. My PX4 and Kahr CW9 both shoot very well with the Lee TL124 sized at 356 over 3.8gr of Accurate#2. I just made up some NOE 128 HP that I haven't yet had a chance to shoot.

[fcvan]

Did you use the same alloy when casting from the different molds? What was the average weight of each boolit? I personally use 5 grains of unique on a lot of different boolits, all lee molds. I also size to .358 and have had better success with White Label BAC, NRA 50/50, Javalina, and even some homemade loob. My alloy is generally softer than some folks use, generally range scrap.

The molds are 356-102 1R (mine drop about 105), 358-105 SWC (mine drop about 108), 356-120 TC (mine drop at 125) and the 356-125 2R (drops about 126). They work well sized with a Lyman 450 using a .358 die. I tried a .357 die and my guns patterned.

I've been casting and shooting 9mm since 1985, starting with a S&W 459, then a 659, later a 639. My Glocks are 40 S&W with conversion barrels for the 22C and the 23. I have a buddy who bought a Glock 17 (and a 19 for his wife) and the loads all shot fine in the stock barrels. I have a Taurus 709 slim that loves the 120 TC. Oh, I also have shot these loads from a buddy's CAR 9, and my Marlin Camp Carbine.

The amount of case mouth expansion, seating depth, and crimp could also be a factor. Way back when, I set my dies for the 125 2R using a factory FMJ round. I adjusted for the other boolits using dummy rounds and the plunk test once I get the boolit style configured to cycle properly and group reasonable I keep a dummy round so I can reset the seating depth accordingly.

5 grains of Unique has been a great all around charge for my general plinking load in the above boolits. Only recently have I been playing with warmer loads using the 102 1R with plain based gas checks. The results were a hotter/faster load that worked quite well with zero leading. I am now playing with powder coated boolits and loving it. Once coated, the boolits are sized without lube. It is noticeable how much smoke one one gets from lubed boolits.

I haven't run them over the chronograph yet as I'm low on primers. I have read where PCd boolits run a bit faster due to reduced friction. If that is the case, and the increase opens up the groups a tad, then I may have to back down.

I don't have a HP mold for 35 cal and so I can't give a good comparison. I know different boolit styles have more/less bearing surface and the balance point shifts fore/aft based on design. I can say from the 102 1R to the 125 2R the 5 grain charge has been a good general load for me. Good luck!

[jonp]

btw: I carried a 239 9mm for a few years and although it is a bit heavy it is a sweet gun.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

it do?

[silverjay]

Curious ... Have you shot the HP design, as a flat point? (IOW turn the pin around on the mold) What does it do?

Next on the list to do. Cast them this morning.

[silverjay]

Did you use the same alloy when casting from the different molds? What was the average weight of each boolit? I personally use 5 grains of unique on a lot of different boolits, all lee molds. I also size to .358 and have had better success with White Label BAC, NRA 50/50, Javalina, and even some homemade loob. My alloy is generally softer than some folks use, generally range scrap.

The molds are 356-102 1R (mine drop about 105), 358-105 SWC (mine drop about 108), 356-120 TC (mine drop at 125) and the 356-125 2R (drops about 126). They work well sized with a Lyman 450 using a .358 die. I tried a .357 die and my guns patterned.

I've been casting and shooting 9mm since 1985, starting with a S&W 459, then a 659, later a 639. My Glocks are 40 S&W with conversion barrels for the 22C and the 23. I have a buddy who bought a Glock 17 (and a 19 for his wife) and the loads all shot fine in the stock barrels. I have a Taurus 709 slim that loves the 120 TC. Oh, I also have shot these loads from a buddy's CAR 9, and my Marlin Camp Carbine.

The amount of case mouth expansion, seating depth, and crimp could also be a factor. Way back when, I set my dies for the 125 2R using a factory FMJ round. I adjusted for the other boolits using dummy rounds and the plunk test once I get the boolit style configured to cycle properly and group reasonable I keep a dummy round so I can reset the seating depth accordingly.

5 grains of Unique has been a great all around charge for my general plinking load in the above boolits. Only recently have I been playing with warmer loads using the 102 1R with plain based gas checks. The results were a hotter/faster load that worked quite well with zero leading. I am now playing with powder coated boolits and loving it. Once coated, the boolits are sized without lube. It is noticeable how much smoke one one gets from lubed boolits.

I haven't run them over the chronograph yet as I'm low on primers. I have read where PCd boolits run a bit faster due to reduced friction. If that is the case, and the increase opens up the groups a tad, then I may have to back down.

I don't have a HP mold for 35 cal and so I can't give a good comparison. I know different boolit styles have more/less bearing surface and the balance point shifts fore/aft based on design. I can say from the 102 1R to the 125 2R the 5 grain charge has been a good general load for me. Good luck!

Same alloy on all, 50/50 COWW/SOWW. Average weight is 125.

[silverjay]

Got back out today with both HP and solid out of the MP mold. Loaded both with the correct stem. The solids shot great. At twelve yards you could cover 5 rounds with a nickel. The HP's shot better, but not as good. Group size varied 2-3" always at 11 o'clock. Switched back to solids and tight groups. I must be missing something when culling the HP's is my only guess. What should I be looking for that would impact accuracy? I am using the penta pins and they always look offset to my, but when I measure they are right on.

[MikeS]

Try making some HPs using the round pins (if you have them). I've found that while the penta-pins make a nastier looking boolit (nasty as in thoughts of what it would do to a person hit with them, not in their actual looks) the round pins tend to make more 'keepers' per session than the penta-pins, and I can't see the pentas being as balanced as the round pin ones. Try them, if they don't shoot any differently, then go back to the penta-pins, but if they shoot about the same as the solids, then you have your answer. The round pin HPs will expand just as well (assuming you're using the right alloy) as the penta-pins, so if they give you better accuracy then they're the ones to shoot.

[landers]

Silverjay, I had a similar problem and with the help of everyone here on the forum I found as I backed the velocities down the accuracy increased with my light 9mm HP bullet. I was about to give up with my mold but with help here I finally found a nice light load that performs well. Please keep us posted.

Landers

[Changeling]

Hi silverjay, what MikeS said is a good indicator for you. Also, I would change the distance you are shooting to 25 yards at the least. This will help in showing up discrepencies/problems. 12 yards is just to close!

[CPL Lou]

I use the same mold and one thing I discovered (accidentally) is that some of the boolits had voids in the deepest part of the hollow. I started weighing my HP's after the discovery and now I get great accuracy.

CPL Lou

[BBQJOE]

I might be wrong, but the only reason I see for HP's is self defense. It is said most gun fights happen inside 20 feet. I doubt anyone in a self defense situation is shooting out 25 yards or more.
If you're aiming for COM at short distances and getting 2-3 inch groups, I think that would get the job done.

[Changeling]

I might be wrong, but the only reason I see for HP's is self defense. It is said most gun fights happen inside 20 feet. I doubt anyone in a self defense situation is shooting out 25 yards or more.
If you're aiming for COM at short distances and getting 2-3 inch groups, I think that would get the job done.

The 25 yd targets will give a better representation of problems associated with the firearm and make it easier to determine a "FIX", be it the pistol or the ammo in this situation and most others.
The idea here is to help the OP determine his problem, not to start a pissing battle over things not pertaient to his problem.

[BBQJOE]

not to start a pissing battle over things not pertaient to his problem.
Who's pissing?

[fredj338]

One of two things; either the HP is off center, or their are internal voids. Neither will shoot worth a krap. Voids are handled best for me by pressure casting above 700deg. Weighing some sample bullets will show possible internal voids, by varying more than 1gr each +/-. Nothing fixes an off center HP. BTW, if they are shooting poorly @ 12yds, you'll find out nothing new going to 25yds, they aren't going to get better. My min for accuracy testing any handgun is 50ft, 25yds is better, but I can get a good idea what a load will do @ 50ft. Accuracy testing under that, just wasting ammo IMO.