aging boolits; do you size before or after?

[grampa243]

i'm intrested in what everyone does when it come to sizing and aging?

do you cast and size right away and then age?

or cast let age and then size as you need them for loading?

and Why do you do it your way??

[rsrocket1]

Many times, my boolits age while buried in the berm at my local range :) Cast/size/load/shoot (da capo).

[Char-Gar]

Some years back, I got real scientific and measured the hardness of cast bullets of various alloys at one week intervals to see how much they hardened and how long it took.

I found they did age harden, some only took 2 weeks to max out, others 3 weeks and one took 4 weeks, depending on the alloy. After that some alloys lost a little from their new hardness, but some did not and were very stable. The really big thing I learned is they didn't hardened enough to make any difference in my loading. A Bhn point or two one way or another is irrelevant for practical shooting. Like some other things that folks get fixated on, this is a non-issue.

I cast and put them away and size as needed. Hardness has nothing to do with this. It is just easier and who knows what size I will want them when the time comes to load. So, just do whatever you want to do, it will make no difference in anything other than irrelevant theory.

[white eagle]

Char hit the nail on the head
in my experience it did make as much of a difference as I thought it should
so I don't waste any more time with it
have fun

[DeanWinchester]

I let mine age long enough that they don't burn my hands when I feed them into the sizer.

[Mk42gunner]

Since my boolits are primarily ACWW I cast up a container full, then size as needed.

Robert

[winelover]

I would cast outdoors, in the Spring, and lube and size in the Winter. Gave me something to do during the cold boring Michigan months. Old habits are hard to break, even in the more temperate Arkansas climate.

Winelover

[btroj]

I cast and size as time allows. Some bullets are sized the day they are cast, some might sit for years before being sized.
Sometimes it isn't about what is "right or wrong" and more about what reality dictates.

[fcvan]

I used to cast a bunch and then size when loading. That could be casting and loading today or a coffee can full that sat waiting for 15 years. Back when I could mine the berm at work I cast a lot and stored them in 5 gallon buckets for each mold type. It took a long time to get to the bottom of those buckets.

[felix]

The BR gun uses aged boolits, and sized the day before shooting. Others are a don't care, unless the boolits are long for the caliber and are gas checked. Then those get aged first to at least maximum hardness. The reason: hard things don't bend as much. ... first

[DLCTEX]

I only harden some rifle boolits by water dropping. I size those the same day. I no longer harden any pistol boolits.

[texassako]

I would pick both options. Some of my molds are for only one application, and get sized almost immediately. Others are for multiple uses that may get sized differently, and sit unsized until I know what needs them.

[Mal Paso]

Water Dropped get sized right away as they seem to harden rapidly.

Air Cooled does not seem to matter.

[Gliden07]

I age them by default. I cast a bunch of Boolits store them till I need to reload then I will resize a few hundred to load. Fresh Boolits!! LOL!!

[mustanggt]

I cast a bunch and let them cool till I get to them later in the day or week. Then they sit in their little boxes till lord knows when till I get to around the time I need them lubed and sized and gas checks applied. could be over along period of time months or years. All works the same for me.

[sthwestvictoria]

The 30-30 boolits are just ACWW, GC, sized, pan lubed, no particular timing (these are slow, around 1600fps).
The 35 whelen 250grain are sized soonish, GC applied first then sprayed with lanolin and sized. Then oven heat treated, quenched, dried and then pan lubed.

['74 sharps]

I generally let them cool off before I seat them in the case.

[bhn22]

I too cast and stockpile, then size as needed.

['74 sharps]

I let mine cool off enough to tumble lube and load, no sizing on the smokeless powder bullets.

[Gar]

Since my shop isn't air conditioned, I only cast in the winter. I cast up all the boolits during that time and size them as need since one style of boolit may be used in several different guns different diameter bores.

[jonp]

Some years back, I got real scientific and measured the hardness of cast bullets of various alloys at one week intervals to see how much they hardened and how long it took.

I found they did age harden, some only took 2 weeks to max out, others 3 weeks and one took 4 weeks, depending on the alloy. After that some alloys lost a little from their new hardness, but some did not and were very stable. The really big thing I learned is they didn't hardened enough to make any difference in my loading. A Bhn point or two one way or another is irrelevant for practical shooting. Like some other things that folks get fixated on, this is a non-issue.

I cast and put them away and size as needed. Hardness has nothing to do with this. It is just easier and who knows what size I will want them when the time comes to load. So, just do whatever you want to do, it will make no difference in anything other than irrelevant theory.

You don't happen to have the results of this do you? It would be interesting.

[243winxb]

From Lyman FAQ http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/faqs/bullet-casting.php
Q: Is there anything I can do to make the bullets harder?
A: Cast bullets can be heat treated to increase their hardness providing your alloy has some antimony present. To heat treat your bullets: Cast your bullets in the normal manner, saving several scrap bullets. Size your bullets but do not lubricate them. Place several scrap bullets on a pan in your oven at 450 degrees and increase the temperature until the bullets start to melt or slump. Be sure to use an accurate oven thermometer and a pan that will not be used again for food. Once the bullets start to melt or slump, back off the temperature about 5 to 10 degrees and slide in your first batch of good bullets. Leave these in the oven for a half hour. Remove the bullets from the oven and plunge them into cool water. Allow them to cool thoroughly. When you are ready to lubricate, install a sizing die .001" larger than the one used to initially size them. This will prevent the sides of the bullets from work-softening from contact with the sizing die. Next apply gas checks if required and lubricate. These are now ready for loading.
2% antimony will require about 2 weeks to fully harden.

[WILCO]

and Why do you do it your way??

I'm a small batch outfit. I do all of my casting and reloading work in small batches. Nothing worse than doing a large run and finding out there's a problem. The freshly cast boolits are set aside until needed. Nice and simple process.

[jeepyj]

No rhyme or reason. Only when I'm casting something new I'll just do up a hundred or two, size and then test. If satisfied I'll cast up bulk and size at a later date. I think my methods are mostly driven one way or another out of necessity.
Jeepyj

[Char-Gar]

You don't happen to have the results of this do you? It would be interesting.

Sure....These bullets were measured with a SAECO hardness tester. They were measured at one week, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks and five weeks. I will give you the numbers in Bhn as per a conversion formula.

1. ACWW - 9 Bhn at one week, 12 Bhn at two weeks and the same thereafter.
2. ACWW + 1.25% Sn - 12 Bhn at one week never got harder.
3. ACWW + 2.5% Sn - 12 Bhn at one week, and went to 15 Bhn on week four.
4. Taracorp Magnum/hardball - 17 Bhn at one week and never got harder.
5. 50/50 (lino and No. 3 above) - 15 Bhn at one week, 17 Bhn at two weeks and never got harder
6. Straight lino measured 24 Bhn when cast which is max on the scale

I do not have laboratory grade equipment, but this give a pretty good idea of how the various alloys compared in hardness as they age. This was done about 12 years ago. The Bhn numbers could well be off a point either way as the SAECO scale is rather course.

I have not looked at this material in 10 years and was somewhat surprised how much hardness was added to the WW by the Sn (tin). My memory had faded some on the subject. That is why it pays to make good notes at the time and double check to see you wrote it down right.

Anyway, there is it and I think it is reasonable accurate. I thought I had done Lyman No. 2 but did not find that I had.

I had a nice supply of WW and high quality tin at the time. After this test, I mixed up several hundred pounds each of WW with 1.25% tin and used it for all handgun bullets and WW with 2.5% tin and used it for all rifle bullets. These alloys worked well for me.

Next batch I used 2% tin and used it for handgun and rifle and it proved entirely satisfactory for both uses. Straight ACWW works fine for handguns, but the smidge of tin help produce better filled out bullets.

Most bullet around my shop have aged 6 months to 6 years. About 5 years after the initial test above, I tested a few of the original batch of WW +2.5% tin. There was a measurable loss of hardness, but not enough to write down, maybe a Bhn point or so.

[Larry Gibson]

The BR gun uses aged boolits, and sized the day before shooting. Others are a don't care, unless the boolits are long for the caliber and are gas checked. Then those get aged first to at least maximum hardness. The reason: hard things don't bend as much. ... first

Felix "nailed it" . Even with WQ'd I let them age at least 24 hours.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Frank

You paying attention? Post #23, looks like someone else has measured over 12 BEN with C OWWs +tin...15 BHN .......

Larry Gibson

[Down South]

I usually size the next day to several weeks from my casting session. I do this just to be finished with the boolits and have them ready to load. I just finished sizing/lubing 2000+ 45 acp boolits.

[yman]

I always let mine cure 2 or 3 days b4 I size them. I also drop mine in a 5 gal bucket of water, I started that just to keep them from banging together and messing up the warm ones. Works for me,so guess I will stick with it, if it aint broke you know.

[noylj]

I don't size, period.

[Dale53]

I start sizing the day they are cast. I kind of whittle away at it until they are sized and lubed on the Star. It may take me a day or two depending what I have on my plate. I don't want any unsized or lubed bullets sitting around (too much like a "honey do list" staring me in the face[smilie=1:).

I normally cast 20# of finished bullets at a sitting. Then, I start sizing and lubing...

FWIW
Dale53

[jonp]

Thanks Char. It does lead to a question from your results. Actually 2.

1) Did you ever cut an air cooled boolit in half and measure whether the hardness was uniform or more uniform than water quenched? This would negate any worry about work softening the boolit when sizing.

2) "There was a measurable loss of hardness, but not enough to write down, maybe a Bhn point or so." Can you account for this? Seems odd. I tried looking this point up but have drawn a blank

[bobthenailer]

Since I water drop 99% my boolets from the mould into water , i allways size right after casting that lot of boolets for the day , usually i cast for 1 to 2 hrs and then L/S.

[GARD72977]

I try to start sizing the same day I cast. I like them to be sized quickly. I have always wanted that little extra hardness. Its always that last little bit that is important!

[guicksylver]

Contrary to what some might say, I believe one of the Lyman manuals says that "sizing changes the crystalline structure of the alloy and that they should rest (age),
allowing them to return to their original hardness".

I interpret this to mean, cast, size, age.

I'll look it up for you if you want.

[Shiloh]

Tumble lubed pistol boolits get run through a LEE push through sizer. They get lubed as needed. Rifle boolits are sized, lubed, and loaded as needed.

Shiloh

[Recluse]

I cast and put them away and size as needed. Hardness has nothing to do with this. It is just easier and who knows what size I will want them when the time comes to load. So, just do whatever you want to do, it will make no difference in anything other than irrelevant theory.

Agree.

I size when it is convenient, for the most part. I quit obsessing over hardness and BHN a long time ago.

:coffee:

[dragon813gt]

I get around to it when I can. I have ammo cans full of ready to load bullets for ones I shoot a lot. As much is I don't like have unloaded ammo around. It's convenient to have some ready to load. It happens quite often where I will load a box or two before I go to the range. I also hate sizing so I do a lot at once.

This was the last batch I did. Some of them were cast the day before. I think the oldest ones were six months old.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/TimeToMakeAmmo/89687B4F-2BC1-42A5-AAA7-0CAD1E16A1F2-7166-00000437CA797BD4_zps7955d295.jpg

[Char-Gar]

Agree.

I size when it is convenient, for the most part. I quit obsessing over hardness and BHN a long time ago.

:coffee:

Yep...I have noted many folks obsessing with trivial things, majoring on the minor, on this board, as if a Bhn point or two either way is going to make a difference. If a fellow picks the right alloy for the job at hand, the job is done. Age hardening is not going to make an alloy usable or unusable.

[Animal]

In my short experience with casting, I have found that it is easier to cast a large quantity at one time, then size and lube as I determine how many I wish to load. For some loads, I may not want to size, or I may try a different lube. I have a big box of ACCWW and I work out of that.

I can only imagine the organizational nightmare of trying to separate boolits!

[Green Frog]

Many times, my boolits age while buried in the berm at my local range :) Cast/size/load/shoot (da capo).

My sediments exactly!! :wink:

Froggie

[osteodoc08]

If I'm going to heat and treat using the oven and water quenching, I'll size and lube pretty soon after, because it just requires more effort after the fact.

With air cooled, I'll cast and size/lube when I get around to it.

[GhostHawk]

I take them out of the water, run them through the sizer to get their gas check (Lee push through) As soon as I shut off my lee pot I put a stainless steel bowl with lube on the lee pot to warm up. By the time I've got bullets sized and checked the lube is melted and I hand dip each bullet, then set it on a flat plastic lid. The next day or later the same day I size them again to remove excess lube. and lay them down in neat rows in a Tupperware container. Ready to be used when needed. Pretty little silver bullets with copper bottoms and red lube in the grooves.
They're so dang cute!

Then I push them down into a brass case above IMR 4895 powder and they become one part of lighting in a bottle! LOOK OUT!

[David2011]

Maybe it's just the alloy I use but it seems to get significantly harder to push the boolits through the Star if they sit around more than 4-5 days so I try to size pretty promptly after casting.

David

[williamwaco]

Some years back, I got real scientific and measured the hardness of cast bullets of various alloys at one week intervals to see how much they hardened and how long it took.

I found they did age harden, some only took 2 weeks to max out, others 3 weeks and one took 4 weeks, depending on the alloy. After that some alloys lost a little from their new hardness, but some did not and were very stable. The really big thing I learned is they didn't hardened enough to make any difference in my loading. A Bhn point or two one way or another is irrelevant for practical shooting. Like some other things that folks get fixated on, this is a non-issue.

I cast and put them away and size as needed. Hardness has nothing to do with this. It is just easier and who knows what size I will want them when the time comes to load. So, just do whatever you want to do, it will make no difference in anything other than irrelevant theory.

+1 on every word.

My rule is that if you can pick them up and hold them in your bare hand, they are "old enough" to size, lube, and shoot.

That said, I do not do that.

I store them "as cast" until I decide on a batch to load, Then I size and lube them.
Why? because I cast in large batches and I never know what I might want to load next month.

If I do size them, I size them to the largest size for the caliber so If I decide I want a smaller size, I can size them down.

Example, I might size a bunch of .358 124gr TCs at .358.
If I load them in a .38 Special they are ready to go but if I need them in my 9mm, I can just re size them to .356/.357.

Always keep as many options open as possible.

[tazman]

This is all great information.
I have found for my 9mm, when using range scrap which is 90% of my lead supply, that I need to wait at least 3 days to get my best accuracy. If I load and shoot sooner, I get some shear that significantly increases my group size.
If I wait there are no problems.