308 win for coyotes

[lead chucker]

I'm having a 20 inch, 1-14 twist barrel made in 308. The question is what boolits would you guys recommend for coyotes. Is there a boolit that likes to be pushed at a high velocity. I would like to have a flat shooting boolit. I'm sure some work better than others. I would prefer a Lyman only because I have Lyman handles already. I'm not worried about expansion and I know the boolits will have to be on the hard side. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Marlin Junky]

Something with a large meplat, yet a higher BC. Something like the Ranch Dog 311-165 or 170 with real lube groove would be nice. Actually, I purchased one of the last available C311-170's from the Ranch Dog website just for coyote with an '06 but haven't had time to try it on live animals yet. It shoots very well from my 1:10" at about 1900 fps so from your 1:14" it ought to really hustle.

Here's a link to the NOE copy which is similar, but not exact:

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=308

Unfortunately, it appears to be currently out of stock.

If I had to pick a Lyman mold, I would go with 311041 and hope it casts .310-.311 on the bands"

MJ

[possom813]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/128710/lyman-2-cavity-bullet-mold-311041-30-caliber-309-diameter-173-grain-flat-nose-gas-check

Good boolit^^

[pipehand]

You might want to get in on this group buy:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150129-MiHec-308-Hunting-Boolit-2-or-4-Cavity-Brass-Cramer

It is open for last calls, but will be closed soon.

[Bullshop]

Flat shooting is a term relative to the range it will be used at. At close to moderate range a light fast boolit may be more flat shooting than a heavy slower one. At long range they will reverse roles and the heavy slower boolit will be flatter shooting.
Blunt nose boolits will give good terminal effect but will not due to increased drag shoot as flat as more ballisticaly efficient shapes.
To cover both areas of performance there will have to be a compromise.
I shoot a 308 with boolits at long range and prefer heavy boolits of 200gn and over. It wont take long to realize the advantage of the heavier boolits in the wind.
I also modify a heavy spitzer design to have a small meplate by bumping the nose in a sizer die. That works out to be a good compromise for good ballistic shape and terminal effect.

[Boerrancher]

In my 1 in 10 twist 308 I have found that a the 180 gr Lee round nose cast from a 50/50 alloy of WW and pure on top of 35 grains of IMR 4064 won't shoot through a coyote inside of 250 yards if you rib shoot them. Just don't expect the hide to be worth much either.

Best wishes

Joe

[45 2.1]

I'm having a 20 inch, 1-14 twist barrel made in 308.

Good Luck on that.... you have just limited what you can do with the rifle. It is use specific now.


Is there a boolit that likes to be pushed at a high velocity. I would like to have a flat shooting boolit.

That will depend somewhat on the throating and design... plus the weight/length of what you choose. Velocity is not the problem with any of the twists available.


I'm not worried about expansion and I know the boolits will have to be on the hard side. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

You have received some good advice from the above posters. You need to think about what they have said. Your above statement will cause you some problems when you try it out.

[Love Life]

Why did you go with a 1 in 14 twist?

[wmitty]

Lyman 311466 is a boolit you might consider in this application. As Bullshop mentioned, this is going to be a compromise due to the ogive being more streamlined as far as long range use is concerned. I have had very good accuracy with this boolit in a M 700 in .308. A number of years back I decided to use the Lee 160 gr round nose in a .308 Win. M 100 for coyotes; the lack of killing effect vs a jacketed slug was pronounced. Instead of bang/flops it was bang/ flip, flop, and quiver with a short dash thrown in now and then. Every 'yote expired, just not as fast.

Let us know how the 14" twist works with the boolits you decide to use... I have wanted to try this myself.

[Larry Gibson]

Lead chucker

Have to agree with 45 2.1 that you are "limiting" yourself with that choice. However, he thinks it's because of the 14" twist but it's really the barrel length. If you want the 14" twist which I agree with then I suggest you start with a 26" barrel at minimum. I've used a lot of rifles on coyote calls with barrels of that length and longer and they were just as "quick" to get on coyote's as shorter barreled rifles. You can always shorten the barrel if you feel the need but you can't lengthen it.

So why the longer barrel? If you want high velocity with a cast bullet, even in a 14" twist, you must slow down the pressure curve via slow burning powders over a longer time; that means a longer barrel. To get HV out of a 20" barrel you have to push the cast bullet harder. That means a much harder acceleration rate the bullet must withstand. The recommended 311041, which when HP'd deep and cast soft is an excellent coyote cast bullet, will have to be pushed too hard out of that 20" barrel for HV. Any cast bullet with a long bore riding nose will have the same problems in that 20" barrel.

If you must have the 20" barrel and you want to shoot a heavier bullet like the 311041 then I suggest a 12" twist. That twist will then stabilize the 170+ gr bullets recommended at the velocity (2100 – 2200 fps with accuracy) you will push them to out of the 20” barrel.

However, to answer the original question (The question is what boolits would you guys recommend for coyotes?); if you get a 20” barrel with a 14” twist then I suggest a lighter weight bullet, 2 actually. I suggest the Loverin 311465 122 gr (older design no longer made but a custom mould could be made if a used one can’t be found) as 1st choice followed by the 311359 which is still commercially available. I would cast them of a softer malleable alloy and HP them with the Forster 1/8” HP tool. The 311465 has little nose and max bearing surface and will probably be the most accurate bullet you could use at HV. The 311359 has a bit more nose but should do almost as well at HV. You should get upwards of 2500 - 2600+ fps (hitting the RPM threshold right above that…may be lower due to the shorter barrel/faster acceleration needed) with the right powder out of them. That should give at least an effective trajectory to 300 yards on coyote’s. Better yet with either of those bullets would be a 16” twist as then you could push perhaps up into the 2700 – 2800+ fps range with a 20” barrel.

Whatever the twist it would still be better to start with a longer barrel.

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

Actually Larry, you really have no idea why.................... but it isn't anything you have said in the previous post.

[Larry Gibson]

45 2.1

Come on now....we all know why.......

You were right though; that kind of barrel is "use specific". The "use" as stated by the OP was to kill coyote's with using a cast bullet at HV. The 14" twist will be excellent for that by keeping the bullet below the RPM threshold for excellent accuracy at HV for a cast bullet w/o a lot of frustration trying to make a faster twist barrel do so. Yup, it's "use specific" alright because you get to use it for what you intended.........

BTW; now if my agreement with you about that barrel being "limited" wasn't what you meant then how about stating, in plain english, what you meant w/o all the secretive stuff. Why must you always "come back" with such argumentative BS even when someone agrees with you? Wouldn't a simple "thank you" be more appropriate or perhaps just silence? Or you could put me on "ignore"...........

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

Hahahaha...... trying to pick a fight as always. You didn't agree. Your using it to advance your own agenda as always. And no, I'm not telling you anything because that is an exercise in futility. Why not let lead chucker find out for himself.

[lead chucker]

I wasn't intending to shoot over 200 yards and I didnt expect j bullet velocity. If I was able to achieve 23-2400 fps with a light boolit I would be very happy. I want the 20 inch barrel because I like the lenth I like a short compact rifle. I know there will be limitations. This is a ruger compact the barrel was 16.5 inch and a 1-10 twist. So a longer barrel and a slower twist should give me better performance. As far as being limited you can shoot a heavy boolit with a 1-14 twist these cast bullets are not very long compared the the j bullets. A member on here tested some 200 gr ones for me and they stabilized just fine. So I'm hoping to have my cake and eat it to.

[lead chucker]

I have a Remington 700 300 win mag that shoots real fast and flat but it comes with a price. This little 308 with cast boolits cost pennies in comparison. So I was wanting a light off season boolit that would shoot fast and flat with in reason for target and coyotes and mabe an occasional lynx or mabe a wolf if I ws so lucky. During black bear and deer season I could use a heavier boolit. I have a ruger 77/44 that works great. The 308 gives me a longer range.

[Larry Gibson]

lead chucker

PM sent.

Larry Gibson

[MT Gianni]

I am not sure that you could beat a Savage with Accutrigger even with the 1 in 10 twist.

[Shooternz]

Lead chucker,
I have a 14" twist .308 but the barrel is 26" I shoot the Lyman 311332 with 16gr of 2400 velocity
is 1600fps accuracy sub MOA I use a soft lead 50/50 WW/ straight lead plus 1% tin, I have shot it to
2300fps and got leading a harder mix should fix that. Robert.

[pdawg_shooter]

Try paper patching. If you want high velocity with good accuracy the paper will support the bullet while accelerating and prevent distortion and slump. If the bullet is uniform and round when it exits the barrel, accuracy will not be a problem. Match your alloy with the velocity and you will have a near perfect hunting bullet.

[Marlin Junky]

Try paper patching. If you want high velocity with good accuracy the paper will support the bullet while accelerating and prevent distortion and slump. If the bullet is uniform and round when it exits the barrel, accuracy will not be a problem. Match your alloy with the velocity and you will have a near perfect hunting bullet.

Have you ever paper patched for a .308W?

Given the throat of a typical .308W, an '06 might be a better choice.

MJ

[boltaction308]

This might be worth considering when you choose a caliber for coyotes.

I went to New Brunswick Canada recently on a bear hunt. The outfitter told me to bring a rifle .25 caliber or less in case we had a chance to do some coyote hunting. Up there, you cannot hunt coyotes with anything larger that .25 caliber.

[pdawg_shooter]

Have you ever paper patched for a .308W?

Given the throat of a typical .308W, an '06 might be a better choice.

MJ

I patch for both of them. Dont remember the last time either one saw a jacketed bullet. But then at my age I dont remember much of anything anymore. What was we talking about?

[Marlin Junky]

I patch for both of them. Dont remember the last time either one saw a jacketed bullet. But then at my age I dont remember much of anything anymore. What was we talking about?

Which is the better paper patched boolit cartridge, '06 or .308W?

MJ

[Bullshop]

I would think the 06 because it has more neck to work with. Will also depend on what boolit weight you want to shoot, throating, and also weather you will be using bore diameter or groove diameter patched boolits.
No simple answer I guess.

[pdawg_shooter]

I get a bit more velocity with the .308 but that is because it is shooting a 150gr 311466 Loverin design bullet and the 06 I load with a 311284 bullet. Accuracy is about the same, maybe a bit better with the .308 (Savage model 10) than with the 06 (MK10 Mauser).

[Marlin Junky]

The reason I was asking is because of the difference in the two throats.

The '06 has a longer cone that starts just after the cartridge case mouth; whereas, the .308W has a cylindrical freebore section between the mouth and its tapered throat. I think the '06 has a longer cone and less steep angle into the rifling too. Intuitively, I would think the '06 would be more PP friendly.

Meanwhile, someone wanted to know about killing coyotes with a .308W. I don't remember if he was in Canada or not, but I too would like to see what a .30 caliber boolit with a .180" will do to a coyote.

MJ