do bullets metal from firing?

[Skip62]

Ok, so I was reading This (http://www.lasc.us/castbulletalloy.htm) and read this
"Lead conducts heat slowly and contrary to the belief of some, lead does not melt from the base of plain base bullets when fired causing leading. If it could why don’t paper and plastic wads burn in shotgun shells? The millisecond the bullet is subjected to this heat simply could not melt lead. Pressure forcing the bullet against the sides of the bore could and far more likely than this is a lack of obturation (bullet too hard) allowing gas leakage down the sides of the bullet. This has the same effect as an acetylene torch cutting steel and leading would begin on the trailing edge of the rifling." I'm not sure I believe this because I used to shoot FMJ's out of 1911 comp gun, and I would have to clean lead out of the comp on a regular basis. Since the FMJ's only have lead exposed at the base of the bullet, I assume that the lead in the comp was melted off the base of the bullet during firing. Any other thoughts about this?

[btroj]

I don't think the bullet base melts at all. None at all.

[rmatchell]

I have yet to lead any of my pistols with my cast boolits. The only leading I have ever had was when I shot two boxes of PPU 357.

[Skip62]

I don't think the bullet base melts at all. None at all.

Then were does the lead come from in my comp?

[btroj]

Sure it is lead? An open base jacketed bullet has no lead that should be depositing on a comp.

[jdgabbard]

If you're getting lead, it's coming from somewhere else. Priming compound has more lead in it then you're going to "melt" from the microsecond of flash.

[mdi]

I think the bullets are bases are affected by heat/flame and pressure. I have no proof, just logic/common sense. The high flame temperature added to the high pressure melts a bit of the lead, prolly just a few thousandths of the base vaporized. Jes my opinion...

[btroj]

Put a sticker on the bullet base and recover the fired bullet. Bet the sticker isn't burned. If you can't burn a sticker then how can you melt lead?

[captaint]

Skip - I guess I would have to question if it is actually lead. Quite a bit of carbon, jacket material and gunk can build up and foul a bore pretty good. I guess you have tried using one of the copper removers and failed to get a bore clean ?? I have leaded some barrels and I can tell you it was because the boolit was too small in diameter. I know this because when I increased the boolit diameter by .001 or .002, the leading went away and didn't return. I don't know that I would necessarily argue against the point made in the LASC article. I do intend to try using plain base boolits at higher velocities than in the past just to see if it will work. Based on others' experience, I'm confident it will be OK. We shall see. Mike

[fouronesix]

If your are getting lead in the bore from a FMJ, sure raises a question. Hmmm, I don't think lead is getting "melted" off the exposed core at the base- the specific heat of the burning powder isn't high enough. Even though it is very hot, it lacks molecular density and exposure duration. But, something else may be going on. If it is in fact lead coming from the exposed core at the base, it may be ablating off by powder granules in the high pressure/high velocity turbulence, getting mixed as a colloid in the plasma, then being deposited in the bore. 2 cents worth and a pure guess.

[Mal Paso]

Then were does the lead come from in my comp?

It's probably gas cutting of the bullet base adjacent to the compensator just after the bullet passes. Those that don't believe in gas cutting should see my 629. The cylinder flutes have lead deposits sprayed on by the gas exiting the cylinder gap. The patched are solid and fully soldered to the steel. Don't have any problems with lead in the bore. My regular load is a plain base boolit about 1260 fps

[leadman]

Dave Scovill, the editor of Handloader has printed pictures of the bases eroded by gas cutting with and without a barrel in the gun frame. I have also seen this on my own boolits recovered from soft dirt banks. One can also see the imprints of powder kernels in the bases.
A larger boolit, gas check, filler, or CFVentures wax disc help eleminate this problem.
I would guess if you put 35,000 psi of cold air pressure on the base of a boolit that did not seal the bore it might also do some damage.

[ku4hx]

I can't even begin to estimate the number of boolit/bullet bases I've seen. Sort of a natural thing when you've "mined the berm" for as many years as I have. I've seen boolits/bullets in all sorts of shape from pretty much destroyed to rifling marks being the only visible damage. I've never seen a base that looked to me to be melted or slumped in any way. What I have seen is the gas check pressure molded so well to the boolit's base you could make out the little round sprue cutoff. Does that make the likely "truth" of obturation more real? I got no idea.

People do stuff and then they draw conclusions and that's fine as far as it goes. But for every expert (both real and imaginary) who assumes to be such, you can find another who interprets the data differently and comes up with different, often opposing, conclusion. Not that it has relevance here, but I've seen many severely "leaded" bores that turned out to be some combination of powder residue, oil, soft boolit lube, grease and etc.

[cbrick]

I think the bullets are bases are affected by hear/flame and pressure. I have no proof, just logic/common sense. The high flame temperature added to the high pressure melts a bit of the lead, prolly just a few thousandths of the base vaporized. Jes my opinion...

Well, if you apply a bit of logic/common sense using your theory of high pressure & flame temp every single plain base boolit ever fired melted and leaded the bore.

I have looked at the bases of a lot of recovered boolits and not a single one of them showed the slightest sign of any melting. Using the example in the quoted article, plastic has a lower melting temp than does lead so why doesn't any of the recovered shotgun wads show any sign of melting? Paper has a far lower flash point than the melting temp of lead and paper was used in shotguns before plastic but the paper didn't burn.

Rick

[btroj]

I can use Dacron filler and pick up small tufts of it on the ground of I use enough. It is never melted. Never.
If the heat of firing doesn't melt finely extruded plastic how the heck can it melt a bullet?

This old wives tale needs to be put to rest

[Trey45]

I can use Dacron filler and pick up small tufts of it on the ground of I use enough. It is never melted. Never.
If the heat of firing doesn't melt finely extruded plastic how the heck can it melt a bullet?

This old wives tale needs to be put to rest

This is gospel.

[Skip62]

This why ask. I want to know the truth not some theory. I haven't shoot that gun in a long, long time, so maybe I should. Heck it could be memory. I'll clean the comp, and take pictures, load up some FMJ's, and bring back more pictures.

BTW, it's NOT leading the barrel, only the comp. I get the wad argument, but a shotgun is very low pressure, and a 38 super loaded to Major is quite high.

Thanks for all the input

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[bmiller]

My friends and I had this conversation at a USPSA match this weekend. I was the only cast bullet shooter there. I asked why no open shooters shot lead. Everyone in the group said you can't shoot lead with a comp. I asked then how am I getting away with them in my ar? They looked at me funny and changed the subject! I hope you get to the bottom of this!

[uscra112]

I can use Dacron filler and pick up small tufts of it on the ground of I use enough. It is never melted. Never.
If the heat of firing doesn't melt finely extruded plastic how the heck can it melt a bullet?

This old wives tale needs to be put to rest

Not arguing that lead gets melted, but I wish I had some of the .35 Rem cases I fouled with melted polyester fiber to show you. Cases had to be retired - impossible to get it out.

[gefiltephish]

^ I would suspect the poly remaining in the case melted because of the prolonged contact with the hot case, rather than the microsecond of powder burning. No? Ejected brass from my ar can melt the nylon mesh in my brass catcher.

<edit>BTW, did you try boiling your 35 rem cases? Perhaps soaking in acetone would have worked?</edit>

[chboats]

If the exposed lead at the base of a FMJ were melting and fouling the comp, why does it not foul the gas systems of M1s, M14/M1As or any of the current ARs being used in 223 when shooting FMJs?

Carl

[Jack Stanley]

Maybe this train of thought is way off and I don't think I can support it anyway but here ya are . Perhaps the hot powder gasses are condensing on the somewhat cooler compensator . The gas cylinder and front of the operating rod of my Garand get a buildup when firing military ball but I rather doubt it's lead from the base of the bullet .

Jack

[Mal Paso]

This why ask. I want to know the truth not some theory. I haven't shoot that gun in a long, long time, so maybe I should. Heck it could be memory. I'll clean the comp, and take pictures, load up some FMJ's, and bring back more pictures.

BTW, it's NOT leading the barrel, only the comp. I get the wad argument, but a shotgun is very low pressure, and a 38 super loaded to Major is quite high.

Thanks for all the input

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It's not your fault. You had no way of knowing this is a Religious Issue.:holysheep

Seriously, I think the hot gas needs to be moving at a high rate of speed past the metal before gas cutting can take place.

[Skip62]

It's not your fault. You had no way of knowing this is a Religious Issue.:holysheep


Blahahaha, good one

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[44man]

^ I would suspect the poly remaining in the case melted because of the prolonged contact with the hot case, rather than the microsecond of powder burning. No? Ejected brass from my ar can melt the nylon mesh in my brass catcher.

<edit>BTW, did you try boiling your 35 rem cases? Perhaps soaking in acetone would have worked?</edit>
Sounds reasonable but the .35 has no shoulder to speak of to catch fibers so it is strange. I never had anything burn, even a newspaper wad over the flash hole. Some are black but you can read the paper on most.
Now I have seen .38's shot with wad cutters of pure lead coat the outside of cylinders and frames with lead. They did not melt but could not take the gas cutting at the gap. They cut steel with water today with no heat. There is a lot of force changing direction at the gap, remember the guy that cut his thumb off with a .460? It was not burned off.
With the comp, it could be the same as it is at the gap, mechanical cutting of a soft lead bullet core from gas escape. Use a hard core and it might stop.
I have shot PB boolits to over 55,000 psi with no lead at the gap or on the cylinder.

[Larry Gibson]

I've cleaned a lot of "debri" from several comp M1911s. I think the OP is confusing Carbon build up with lead. The carbon fouling from the powder can look like leading (shiney and silvery) when it is scraped or brushed out. The exposed base of lead bullets do not melt when fired.

Larry Gibson

[Smoke4320]

I argee its mostly carbon buildup .. same thing happens in suppressors over time

[grampa243]

I argee its mostly carbon buildup. i have not yet fired a lead boolit in my AR(will fix that soon :)) only v-max and HP types with full copper bases. but the the carbon buildup in the gas system does kinda look like leading. i think you will find that what powder you use will change this some as well.

[btroj]

I've cleaned a lot of "debri" from several comp M1911s. I think the OP is confusing Carbon build up with lead. The carbon fouling from the powder can look like leading (shiney and silvery) when it is scraped or brushed out. The exposed base of lead bullets do not melt when fired.

Larry Gibson

Exactly

[Skip62]

I've cleaned a lot of "debri" from several comp M1911s. I think the OP is confusing Carbon build up with lead. The carbon fouling from the powder can look like leading (shiney and silvery) when it is scraped or brushed out. The exposed base of lead bullets do not melt when fired.

Larry Gibson

That could be absolutely correct. I didn't realize carbon was silver in color, so I "assumed" it was lead. I don't have any FMJ's like I thought, so until I get some I won't be able to see what happens.

Thanks

[pdawg_shooter]

I paper patch and the bullet base is covered with paper. It dont even scorch, much less burn. I have recovered many patches that hace a bit of carbon on them from the powder, but none burnt. Paper burns a 458 IIRC, way below the melting temp of lead.

[NSP64]

Skip62
Get some TMJ (Total Metal Jacket- plated all around) and shoot those in your comp gun and see if you get buildup.

[Skip62]

Skip62
Get some TMJ (Total Metal Jacket- plated all around) and shoot those in your comp gun and see if you get buildup.

Well, I get none from hollow points

Like I said, it could just be my memory, I've been wrong before, many, many times

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[pcarpenter]

You don't have to melt lead to end up with it in a comp, etc. If you doubt that some can rub off without melting, look at your fingers when you are done handling lead bullets. Almost certainly, some gets "rubbed" off when the bullet goes streaking up the bore and exits with the muzzle blast.

I had this discussion with a guy at the range who insisted that he had to use gas checks to prevent the bullet base from melting. He pointed out the rough bullet bases as evidence. I mentioned that powder granules under tens of thousands of pounds of force (per square inch) can easily mark up the base of the bullet, even when the lead is not in a molten state. Certainly the flame temp is high enough to melt lead, but it's not in contact long enough-especially in a short pistol barrel--to transfer enough heat to the lead to get it done.

Someone on this forum did some macro photography of pistol bullet bases after firing and you could tell what sort of powder had been used by the imprints in the bullet base. Yet another reason why this is a great forum....lots of experimenters!

Paul

[fcvan]

I have a Glock 22C and I get carbon and debris around the ports when I shoot my cast boolits. It doesn't appear to be any more than the same gunk I get in the action around the feed ramp. I'm looking forward to shooting some powder coated boolits to see how they do. I shot some in my G23 and they worked great. The bore shined like a new dime with one pass of a dry patch. I think a lot of the gunk I normally get with cast is boolit lube and carbon.

[gunseller]

One time I played around shooting a cast bullet in a 44 mag into a block of wood. I put an X on the base of the bullet so I could tell it from others I was shooting into the block. After four firings the X was still on the bullet. I lost the bullet after the next firing. Under sized bullets lead barrels not melted bases. The lead in a comp or the front of a cylinder may coming off the side of the bullet as it passes the opening and gas gets the micro second to come around the base to the side walls of the bullet. As stated this acts loke a cuttong torch. As for plastic melting why is there no melted plastic from Remington accelators? I have shot plastic sabos for a 45 cal ML in 45-70s loaded with .357 bullets at a high speed without melting them. I same rifle I have gotten plain base cast bullets over 2000 with no leading.
Steve

[dverna]

I tend to the side that the temperature/time relationship makes it difficult to accept lead is melted from the base of the bullet.

If that is so, why does lead melt from gas cutting when shooting an undersized bullet?

Thanks for any insight.

Don Verna

[303Guy]

... why does lead melt from gas cutting when shooting an undersized bullet?It's to do with what constitutes pressure and temperature - high velocity atoms and molecules. You can get an idea of the gas cutting effect by directing a water jet from a garden hose at something soft. Those molecules are not high enough to damage the lead base of a boolit but powder kernels sure are and those can peen the boolit base.

These are rifle boolits using rifle powders.

7279472791
Base Peening. Click on that first one. The second is showing the kernels in the impressions.

72792
Gas cutting

72793
Intact base and base edges. (Apart from the ding on one side).

[pcarpenter]

Thank you, 303Guy. I knew I remembered seeing the thread and pictures. I appreciate you re-posting them. I think I may save those off for future reference. It's one thing to tell a guy about the theory behind something. It's another to have first-hand, tangible illustrations.

Folks, if there's a guy who's done a lot of "what if" testing, it's our friend from NZ. I've read plenty of his posts on paper patching and other more esoteric aspects of our hobby and if there's some question about how or if something will work, he tries it.

Just for clarification and to address the original poster....I spent a while shooting heavy cast bullets in my 300 Blackout AR-15 where there's a port and a flash hider to "foul". Both ended up with a slight silver coating that is definitely different in color than the typical gray-black carbon fouling that I get when shooting jacketed ammo. I am in total agreement that there's no reason one can't shoot cast bullets in ported guns or gas operated semi-autos. What you get in the way of fouling is not big chunks of lead but sort of a "vapor trail" that deposits with the carbon....and you can tell it from the carbon because it's silvery in color. It cleans off with the carbon and I still believe that this is not because the lead is being melted, but because it's being "tracked" in the bore and blasted out. Think of a "lead" (graphite) pencil. Because of the grain structure of graphite, you don't have to melt it to remove bits of it. It's certainly not melting as you drag it on a piece of paper. You can then take your finger and further smear what has rubbed off. Take one of your lead bullets and bear down on it and drag *it* on a piece of paper and see what you get. I tend to believe that the slight vapor trail of lead that shows up on compensators and gas ports is not because the lead melted, but rather because it leaves "tracks" in the bore (not to be confused with leading) and tiny amounts are blasted around the bullet when the combustion gasses exit. Those gasses have tremendous energy and could easily remove some of this "tracked" lead. We already know that the combustion gasses are moving at a higher velicity than the bullet. High speed photography shows the gasses escaping forward around the base of the bullet as bullets exit the muzzle. That's the reason why square bullet bases and square crowns are so essential to accuracy.

Paul

[cbrick]

:goodpost: Good post Paul, very well explained. Thanks.

Rick

[303Guy]

Thanks for the great post and thank you for your kind words, Paul. One can see this tracking effect when firing a boolit into ground rubber. The boolit sides become polished and the sharp edges of the rifling are dulled. Provided the boolit actually contacts the rubber - if there is initial expansion then the mushroom prevents contact of the shank. And yet the rubber grinds get drawn in behind the boolit and collect on the back side of the mushroom.

[fcvan]

There is a post where the guy was shooting into snow and recovering boolits that were darn near reloadable. It makes me want to head for the hills above Woodland Park with a tarp and a snow shovel just to recover some of my boolits for later inspection.

[fcvan]

There is a post where the guy was shooting into snow and recovering boolits that were darn near reloadable. It makes me want to head for the hills above Woodland Park with a tarp and a snow shovel just to recover some of my boolits for later inspection.

[BAGTIC]

I don't believe the lead melts. If there in lead in your barrel it is from smearing jus like a crayon on a piece of lumber. The bullet is cold before you fire it and an excellent heat sink. It simply isn't exposed to the heat long enough to melt. Besides if it was melting or vaporizing it would be more evenly distributed including on top of the lands instead of primarily in the grooves.

[BAGTIC]

Why are people assuming that gas cutting is due to melting? If high pressure water can cut steel, without melting it, why not assume that high pressure gas can cut lead. The first think to consider is that the gas needs somewhere to go to move at high speed and that implies a poor base fit leading to an escape route. Again an undersized ill fitting bullet.

One reason paper patches and stickers don't burn is than burning, combustion, requires free oxygen and cartridge chambers are anaerobic, oxygen deficient, which is the cause of much incomplete combustion and carbon monoxide (CO) production. That has been the basis of the incandescent light bulb for over 150 years.

[williamwaco]

I don't know about your comp but I have fired about 9 zillion cast bullets and I have never seen any indication of anything melting.

[Mal Paso]

Ok. Here is a cylinder from a S&W 629 whose front edges were rounded too much in finishing causing gas cutting issues. It's never been an problem with my other 44s using the same ammo. The lead is not as thick as it looks, it was hard to get the light right. This is the worst flute and represents over 1000 rounds fired but it's all lead alloy and stuck like it was soldered on. Each flute is different depending on the shape of that cylinder edge. No lead in the bore, cone or cylinder. Good Accuracy!

[303Guy]

That is fascinating! Perhaps the experts at the gun labs would be interested in seeing that. There's more going on when a boolited round is fired than one would suspect.

[onesonek]

Not arguing that lead gets melted, but I wish I had some of the .35 Rem cases I fouled with melted polyester fiber to show you. Cases had to be retired - impossible to get it out.

Polyester filler has a lower melt point than dacron filler I believe. ?

[Mal Paso]

That is fascinating! Perhaps the experts at the gun labs would be interested in seeing that. There's more going on when a boolited round is fired than one would suspect.

I would be happy to furnish info etc. but don't know who, other than us, would be interested.

I think Gas Cutting is responsible for several of the strange lead deposits that have shown up here like leading of cylinder throats. The lead is too well bonded to the gun to have just rubbed off. I really should have measured BLT's 625 chambers before he left. I just need more Time, Money, and Guns.

[jhalcott]

I've used poly fill and dacron in my 35 Whelen AND 35 Rem. I also tried Teflon pipe tape. I've NEVER had ruined cases from melted dacron or other poly fill. Yes I've SEEN the little "snow flakes" of Dacron wafting in the air after the shot. IF,big IF, it IS lead in the comp, I believe it is from powder ablation NOT gas melting! I'm ASSUMING it is actually a combination of powder residue and gun lube. SOME powders are very dirty compared to others.
It is possible the lead is blasted offf the base and escapes in all directions when the bullet enters the comp. I have had lead on the crown of my contenders when shooting cast at high velocity. NO leading was evident in the bores though. Calibers from 7 tc/u thru 45-70. This problem ceased when I applied gas checks.

[GabbyM]

I was a flame cutter for about nine years back in my metal fabrication days. An oxygen acetylene or propane torch has far more heat than any powder charge. You can run your hand under a torch by accident and not get burned one bit. It does feel like you were hit by a hammer. Since your nerves know they are in the hurt box. Only did that a couple times by accident.

Even lead oxide on the open base of a bullet would I think be more likely impacted back into the bullet than set free. Just my guess but it's opposite of what those who believe lead melts off would be thinking. That said if I found a box of oxidized boolits I'd melt them down and start over.

Only bullets I ever had oxidize where soft point 223 carried in mags on web gear in hot sweaty weather. Stowed them in a foot locker then next year when I got the kit out they were basically little flat nose with no lead above the jacket. Just white dust. They weren't crimped in so I just pulled them.

I do know the old AA shotgun powders used to make a fouling that looked like lead deposits. First time I cleaned out an old shotgun I thought I was cleaning out bean dust since the gun had been carried in vehicles and equipment in been and cornfields. Soy been dust is nasty stuff that slowly killed a couple of men I once knew. After I started shooting trap I found the same hard dust in my trap guns after hundreds of rounds. OK powder fouling.

[popper]

Could be lead and fouling. Like a mini plasma cutter, creates a small lead vapor cloud. Most gets deposited on the crown. Lube star isn't all lube. Solve by applying nail polish over the lead base.

[Skip62]

Solve by applying nail polish over the lead base.

Now that's a good idea.

[mpmarty]

Then were does the lead come from in my comp?
Primer residue.

[303Guy]

Solve by applying nail polish over the lead base.Good one, thanks for the idea.

I have (or had) some recovered boolits that showed base peening from the powder. Perhaps lead is being peened off by the powder. The position of the build up does seem a little suspicious but if powder residue can deposit there then so can lead droplets. Is there a test one can do to determine whether or not it is lead? (Not acid - that'll take off the bluing!)

Dacron is polyester. It's just a fine fibre version. I have some polyester filter medium which is a lot causer than Dacron.

[Mal Paso]

Gas or Flame Cutting in S&W 629s is well documented. It cuts grooves in the barrel face, cylinder face, and top strap. If it will cut stainless steel I don't think nail polish would do much to stop it.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/271733-two-629s-flame-cutting-top-strap-forcing-cone-photos-questions.html&sa=U&ei=Xz7UUamlJoz0igKNpYDQDw&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHEw1YVVwCcFUnOCQDrEvPG6d2PJQ

[Skip62]

Gas or Flame Cutting in S&W 629s is well documented. It cuts grooves in the barrel face, cylinder face, and top strap. If it will cut stainless steel I don't think nail polish would do much to stop it.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/271733-two-629s-flame-cutting-top-strap-forcing-cone-photos-questions.html&sa=U&ei=Xz7UUamlJoz0igKNpYDQDw&ved=0CAcQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHEw1YVVwCcFUnOCQDrEvPG6d2PJQ

Good point.

Then I think we can safely assume it can cut lead, and leave it in the comp.

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[EddieNFL]

Everyone in the group said you can't shoot lead with a comp.

Shot cast through comps for at least ten years. Cleaned the comps three of four times a year (about 10K between cleanings). I agree with a previous poster it is carbon. It can look like lead, but it crumbles when scraped.

[mold maker]

Good point.

Then I think we can safely assume it can cut lead, and leave it in the comp.

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The boolit only gets hit with the gas once. The top strap etc gets hit every time its fired. You may be comparing 1 to 10000.

[Mal Paso]

The boolit only gets hit with the gas once. The top strap etc gets hit every time its fired. You may be comparing 1 to 10000.

Lead Alloy has a much lower melt point.

I think under certain circumstances, a gas jet can vaporize Lead Alloy and deposit it elsewhere. I think I have proof. I'm not saying it happens all the time. My other revolvers don't do it but they have a much wider flange at the cylinder gap. I really wish Smith would make an O frame to encompass 454 or something. That X frame needs wheels to move it.

[Mal Paso]

The boolit only gets hit with the gas once. The top strap etc gets hit every time its fired. You may be comparing 1 to 10000.

Lead Alloy has a much lower melt point.

I think under certain circumstances, a gas jet can vaporize Lead Alloy and deposit it elsewhere. I think I have proof. I'm not saying it happens all the time. My other revolvers don't do it but they have a much wider flange at the cylinder gap. I really wish Smith would make an O frame to encompass 454 or something. That X frame needs wheels to move it.

[Skip62]

Shot cast through comps for at least ten years. Cleaned the comps three of four times a year (about 10K between cleanings). I agree with a previous poster it is carbon. It can look like lead, but it crumbles when scraped.

Hmm I had tried lead years ago and there was no way I could have gone 10K between cleanings. My problem with it just being carbon is, there is absolutely nothing in the comp after firing jacketed.

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[GabbyM]

Hmm I had tried lead years ago and there was no way I could have gone 10K between cleanings. My problem with it just being carbon is, there is absolutely nothing in the comp after firing jacketed.

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bullet lube.

[steve4102]

Hmm I had tried lead years ago and there was no way I could have gone 10K between cleanings. My problem with it just being carbon is, there is absolutely nothing in the comp after firing jacketed.

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I just read all four pages of posts and then ya lost me with this one. I thought this whole thread was started because you had buildup from jacketed bullets.


I'm not sure I believe this because I used to shoot FMJ's out of 1911 comp gun, and I would have to clean lead out of the comp on a regular basis. Since the FMJ's only have lead exposed at the base of the bullet, I assume that the lead in the comp was melted off the base of the bullet during firing.

[Skip62]

I just read all four pages of posts and then ya lost me with this one. I thought this whole thread was started because you had buildup from jacketed bullets.

My bad, that should have read hollow points. Thanks for catching that.

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[jonp]

Could the lead hollow pt be to soft? Soft enough that the high pressure and velocity of a 38super cause a slight deformation which is caught by the barrel. Initial inertia must be high from a resting state

[Skip62]

Could the lead hollow pt be to soft? Soft enough that the high pressure and velocity of a 38super cause a slight deformation which is caught by the barrel. Initial inertia must be high from a resting state

Ok, I think I've confused a lot of people now....lol

There is no problem with HP's, just FMJ's

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[jonp]

Ok, I think I've confused a lot of people now....lol

There is no problem with HP's, just FMJ's

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lol, ok. I read the thread on my smartphone and as usual missed stuff. I saw something about hp's and that was what I thought was going on here.
I'm going to re-read everything as from the few comments I saw there is a lot of great information.

[grampa243]

i still vote for carbon buildup. possibly the powder from one may be different giving off more carbon that the other.

[jrayborn]

I believe it is lead. I believe that the same high pressure jet of gas that cuts the base of an undersize boolit will cut a tiny bit off the base of the boolit as it leaves the bore due to one point on the base freeing the gas first. Just like gas cutting in an undersize boolit, the boolit base and crown are not in perfect alignment so a microscopic bit of lead gets cut. It's not the heat of the gas that does the cutting, its the pressure.

One way to find out, shoot a bunch and get a good build-up then rub a soldering iron across it.

I have a 4 inch AR barrel I shoot cast through a 9 inch free float handguard. Lots of lead build up in the handguard, not going to shoot it again until the Suppressor in on it...