My Jury On Wheel Weights Has Returned Its Verdict

[Foto Joe]

A few weeks ago I picked up a bucket of WW from a local tire shop. Although I didn't weigh the bucket when I picked it up they claimed it held approximately 150 lbs of weights and happily took my $60 in return for me carting it off. After spending four hours sorting out the zincs and steels as well as keeping the tape weights separate (for casting round balls) I fired up my brandy new Lyman Big Dipper and set about casting ingots in anticipation of someday receiving my molds from MidwayUSA.

Many hours later I'm left with 93 lbs of hard lead and 9 lbs of soft for RB's which brings the price to roughly .60 per lb. Given the fact that I've got at least 12 hours total invested in the ingots I can say that "I'm not impressed" with the overall cost of using wheel weights. But on the other hand it has been a great learning experience. Now if the Brown Truck would please deliver my molds I'll someday actually get to cast some boolits and quit having to sacrifice a valuable body part just to lay my hands on some .452's to feed my 1911's.

I realize that a lot of you use WW's for casting but for me I'm afraid that it just doesn't make sense either financially or time wise. After I go through the 100 or so pounds of lead that I've got stacked on my shop floor I'd like to just buy ingots either off eBay or from some other supplier. So far I've found several places/people that sell for around $1 per pound.

[tuckerdog]

I dont like to buy ww for just that reason. I am lucky enough to work in a shop working on semi trucks and get all the used ww both clipon and stick on free. I get enough to feed my addiction and have a little extra for saving

[44man]

All of mine have been free so the work does not count.
Your are not breaking even.

[RayinNH]

Joe part of your problem is the Lyman pot to smelt. Get a real pot and turkey frier or Coleman stove and cut your time way down. Put the word out amongst your friends and work acquaintances that you are looking for lead (for making a really big paper weight or door stop of course). You may find some free lead that way

[Shiloh]

The guy at the scrap yard let me hand pick my own weights. I told him I just wanted the leas ones and no zinc. Said he had never seen zinc weights.
after sorting through and picking 50#'s out I showed him. Said he never knew!! Charged me $45 for 50 plus pounds. I mix with range scrap and add a bit of tin and linotype if the melt needs adjustment. I cast slightly hard boolits that can be scratched if you push hard with your thumbnail.

Shiloh

[BBQJOE]

If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.

[Pat I.]

If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.

Ain't that the truth.

[Foto Joe]

Since we're on the subject of WW's....

Can somebody give me a "Starting Temperature" for casting? I really haven't found a definitive answer in the stickies other than too hot will cause oxidation on the top of the melt (which I did find when I was casting ingots). And too cold will result in rejects.

[Shedhunter]

When I first started doing this I also used my pot and it took a long time also. I then saw the light and use a turkey cookin setup and melt ww quickly. I'm lucky to have one dependable source for ww and I pay $20 a pail. This is a fun hobby that pays for itself when you finally use boolits that you made and reload. In times like this it's even better to kick back and watch everyone else run around looking for ammo knowing you don't have to worry.

[lka]

If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.

Lol, no kidding, I just like being able to have bullets when I need them

[slim1836]

If you are starting out, read this first, it will steer you in the right direction. "http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm"

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

Best not to try casting if you don't have the knowledge first, it may come back to haunt you.

Casting should be a pleasurable experience, not a frustration.

Have fun and enjoy, remember, it's supposed to be a hobby, but turns into an addiction quickly.

Slim

[Foto Joe]

If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.

Not a fair statement to make. Each one of us values his time differently. Personally I can sit for hours loading and shooting Black Powder revolvers and be extremely content, that's not something most smokeless shooters would have the patience for. It's just that I like to get the most bang for my buck, or in the case of Black Powder the most BOOM!!

I'm not sorry that I spent my hard earned dollars on a bucket of scrap and then expended more hours than I would have liked to smelt it, I learned a LOT just from doing that. Before disparaging someone for trying to optimize their methods keep in mind that "my" methods may or may not line up with yours, there's nothing wrong with that. These forums exist so that those with experience can attempt to help those with less experience, making flip or insulting comments towards an OP who shared an observation does nothing to entice new people to join in learn and eventually teach others about what we do.

[Foto Joe]

Slim1836,

Thanks for the link, I've seen it mentioned but now I know where to find it, I'll take some time to sit down and read before I get going. I've already read quite a bit by Mike Venturino and spoken to Steve Garbe at Wyoming Armory but there's nothing like actually making your own mistakes is there? On the other hand those two are way out of my league when it comes to shooting let alone casting.

[RickinTN]

Since we're on the subject of WW's....

Can somebody give me a "Starting Temperature" for casting? I really haven't found a definitive answer in the stickies other than too hot will cause oxidation on the top of the melt (which I did find when I was casting ingots). And too cold will result in rejects.

I'm a fairly new caster and the temperature will depend on the alloy. I use mostly clip-on wheel weights and I have found that around 700 degrees works pretty well. You may need to adjust the temperature a little. Tin oxidation begins to really occur heavily at around 750. I try to keep my mix below 750 for this reason.
Good Luck with your first bullets!
Rick

[lka]

Since we're on the subject of WW's....

Can somebody give me a "Starting Temperature" for casting? I really haven't found a definitive answer in the stickies other than too hot will cause oxidation on the top of the melt (which I did find when I was casting ingots). And too cold will result in rejects.

I turn the pot on and set the mould on top, wait for it to melt then turn the lee to 3ish, then do something for about 10-15 mins then start to cast, doing this has stopped me from having rejects at the start of casting, when pouring the lead into the mould I like it to look "thick" I don't know how else to explain it, the temp seems to very to get this "thick look" depending on the mix, I could be crazy but I do Believe theirs a sweet spot that can be seen.

I cast into a deep cookie type of pan with a rag soaked in water at the bottom, when the bullets start to look fogy I set the mould on the wet rag for a few seconds until the noise gets less violent sounding then cast again and the shinny comes back. I will also set the mould on the rag when the slag on the spruce takes too long to harden.

The temp of the lead and mould for me can be controlled this way and make great bullets even with my HP moulds this seems to give great fill and shinny color.

When I size them I do a quick inspection when putting into the 4500, I will always throw a few back into the pot that got a Wrinkle or two. I would assume it's normal to have a few rejects.

As far as the lead being too cold as long as it flows out of the pot and you're moulds are hot it shouldn't be an issue, or it isn't for me anyways, my biggest issue with cooler melt is that it clogs the spout.

I'll be casting some today, I'll get a temp reading of WW sweat spot (just my opinion I'm sure some will say I'm doing it wrong) I stopped taking temp readings when I noticed the flow and color.

[BBQJOE]

Not a fair statement to make. Each one of us values his time differently. Personally I can sit for hours loading and shooting Black Powder revolvers and be extremely content, that's not something most smokeless shooters would have the patience for. It's just that I like to get the most bang for my buck, or in the case of Black Powder the most BOOM!!

I'm not sorry that I spent my hard earned dollars on a bucket of scrap and then expended more hours than I would have liked to smelt it, I learned a LOT just from doing that. Before disparaging someone for trying to optimize their methods keep in mind that "my" methods may or may not line up with yours, there's nothing wrong with that. These forums exist so that those with experience can attempt to help those with less experience, making flip or insulting comments towards an OP who shared an observation does nothing to entice new people to join in learn and eventually teach others about what we do.
Simmer down man. I wasn't out to hurt your feelings.
The fact of the matter is collecting lead, smelting it, pouring it, and lubing it takes a great deal of time.
Then for those of us who chase down range to dig it back out of the berm, there is even more time involved. There is nothing fast, nor anything that doesn't involve a great amount time in this hobby.
If I tried to equate the value of my time spent doing this, my bullets would be worth way more than what I saw at a gun show yesterday.
There are ways to cut your time, as previously mentioned.

[mannyCA]

Lol, no kidding, I just like being able to have bullets when I need them

And that, in a nutshell, is what its all about. Being able to control your own shooting destiny is as mastercard puts it, priceless.

[Hamish]

Foto Joe, as has been said, a turkey fryer set up and an dutch oven is the difference between Heaven and Hell.

With this set up you can smelt that much in an hour, including set up and clean up. A big factor is keeping the temp. low enough to melt the lead yet ladle the zink out when it floats to the top, eliminating the sorting before going into the pot.

[silverjay]

How long does it take to smelt a 5 gallon bucket with a fish fryer setup?

[jmort]

What BBQJOE said is true. Also, you were smelting, so you need a smelting set up as suggested. I'd pay $.60 a pound for COWW any day. Smelting, casting, reloading, if you don't enjoy the process, and zero out your time, it's not worth it. You like to shoot BP which is not productive per se. You zero out your time there. Even hunting, lead or animals, has a cost/benefit analysis. New members are often so thin skinned. Everyone here is trying to help. Don't go over 700 to be safe when smelting. The zinc/krud rises, get much hotter, around 787 and the zinc melts.

[kartooo]

for many yrs i bought the 5gal buckets too.
all the trash,cigarette butts etc it was a pain and a loong process.
in my old age i have become lazy and jusy buy ingots from someone on here now.
do the lazy thing with beer now too. washing them 48 bottles was a pain, easier to just go to the corner packy.

[mold maker]

Generally 650-725 will work. Pot temp isn't as important as mold temp. Usually 650-700 and a fast pace will produce good boolits with WW metal. Too fast = frost (foggy) boolits. Too slow = wrinkles and round edges that should be sq.
Only personal experience will refine the process. As long as the lead flows well it is hot enough, if the mold doesn't cool it too quickly.
A 3-5 count after the sprue sets is about right for me. Smaller boolits take less time to set than big ole 45s. It's a balancing act that you will quickly learn.

[BBQJOE]

do the lazy thing with beer now too. washing them 48 bottles was a pain, easier to just go to the corner packy.
You missed the lazy mans answer to bottling. The keg.

[dtknowles]

I don't see anything wrong with valuing our time when casting and reloading. If we did not value our time we would all use single cavity molds and single stage presses all the time. Some of us use 6 cavity molds and progressive loaders and shame on us :-) we don't do that because they make better ammo we do it to save time because we value our time. Everyone make decisions about what to make and what to buy. If someone wants to buy his COWW Lead what is wrong with that, the bullets he casts will be just as sweet. Reading posts here I think some people like making ingots as much as they like making bullets :-) to each his own.

Tim


If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.

[jmort]

"Everyone make decisions about what to make and what to buy."

Exactly. There is a cost/benefit analysis to everything.

Why do any of this when you will someday be able to buy ammunition again, and do away with smelting and casting and reloading? Enjoy the process, it is like gardening with lead. A great hobby/pastime.

[Bagdadjoe]

I use a 3 quart cast iron pot from a yardsale that's porceline lined to melt my lead. Put it on a 1 burner lp hot plate with three burner rings I got at Harbor Freight and put some refractory "cotton" around it to maximize the heat. I picked up a large store of ww's about 8-10 years ago and there's no stickons or zinc in them, so I just flux, skim and pour into a thick (1/8") aluminum muffin pan I also found at a yard sale. As far as my time, well, I don't just sit there and watch it melt, nor do I watch paint dry. Total time, including the unrelated stuff I might be doing while it melts, usually about 45 minutes. How much do you get paid for watching "Biggest Fool" or "Survivor" on tv? Somehow I think I come out way ahead :)

[Elkins45]

I get where the OP is coming from. In the limited amount of time that i currently have available to devote to hobbies I would rather make and shoot boolets than make ingots. Once I retire then the equation will probably change...but by then lead wheel weights may be just a fond memory.

[Hamish]

dtknowles-I don't see anything wrong with valuing our time when casting and reloading. You are absolutely correct. If someone wants to buy his COWW Lead what is wrong with that, the bullets he casts will be just as sweet. There are MANY here who buy ingots/boolits, more power to them. Reading posts here I think some people like making ingots as much as they like making bullets :-) to each his own. we got guy's here who melt down their boolits to recast them just for fun!

Please do not think that we are giving you a hard time or making fun of you for not wishing to spend time smelting, we just didn't want you to hate doing it when you did it the hard way and never want to try it again.

[slim1836]

It's a labor of love and you can't put a price on that.

Do what you enjoy, life's too short.

Go for it, whatever "it" is.

Slim

[mdi]

If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.
I agree. My last job paid $41.20 per hour. If I were to use that figure to figure costs and prices paid for my hobby, I would be better off buying jacketed bullets...

I cast 'cause I like to, not for a monetary savings. I really enjoy casting and get great satisfaction shooting my creations. If I experienced the same situation my response would be; "Yahooo! I got 100 lbs. of clean wheel weight alloy!".

Not ragging on the OP, just sayin'...

[Dale in Louisiana]

If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.

You're going in entirely the wrong direction.

Compare the time spent fiddling with casting and handloading with the amount spent to go to a movie or an amusement park or (Heaven Forbid!) a round of (haauuuuughhh! Spit!) GOLF, and suddenly handloading is very cheap.

It's therapeutic. If it ain't fun, then get yourself an expensive bag of sticks and go play golf.

dale in Louisiana

[nekshot]

time spent at anything with casting\reloading sure beats the fantasy junk of tv Call me a old duff and I am happy which is a lot more than alot of fellas are these days.
nekshot

[gray wolf]

Please do not think that we are giving you a hard time or making fun of you for not wishing to spend time smelting, we just didn't want you to hate doing it when you did it the hard way and never want to try it again.
Simple little post says it all right there. Why are so many people so darn defensive ?
I hate it when people go sideways, Do it correctly then decide if you don't want to do it.
Maybe it's just the way it comes across on the puter screen.
Since when do folks have to make excuses for giving someone good advise.

[Dennis Eugene]

If one starts out smelting in his dipper pot, then perhaps he didn't waste enough of his precious time reading about how to do it right before doing it wrong then complaining about how long it takes to do it? I could be way off base here but that's how i read it. Dennis

[LittleBill]

My profession is a hobby for most people, and I teach the techniques. I tell my students that if they are not enjoying what they are doing, then they either need to figure out how to enjoy it or do something else. The same goes for casting and shooting. I will never get to the point where I could pay for my time. But, time spent doing something relaxing, enjoyable, and creative, is priceless as far as I am concerned. That applies for any hobby, not just casting.

[lka]

I agree. My last job paid $41.20 per hour. If I were to use that figure to figure costs and prices paid for my hobby, I would be better off buying jacketed bullets...

I cast 'cause I like to, not for a monetary savings. I really enjoy casting and get great satisfaction shooting my creations. If I experienced the same situation my response would be; "Yahooo! I got 100 lbs. of clean wheel weight alloy!".

Not ragging on the OP, just sayin'...

Yep, my time is worth more then all this stuff but it fun, interesting, and a great skill for hard times, **** I have looked into making cases and I'm very interested in the primer thread here, I wish smokeless powder could be made in smaller batches or I would try that if legal, and I doubt it is lol.

I load tons and tons of cast, I shoot a lot but also find myself giving a ton away to friends and family as long as they give me the cases back I'll fill up a large ziplock bag full for them.

[spfd1903]

Great variety of perspectives. I started reloading and casting in my early sixties. Kids are grown, I am semi-retired. I enjoy smelting for hours at a time. Sorting WW's is not a chore, it is part of obtaining the resources needed. Might be a different outlook with a full time job and kid's needs. Mý step son is in his thirties and does some reloading. He was berating himself the other day because he has not had time to shoot or reload in awhile. I understand his frustration.

[fecmech]

ow long does it take to smelt a 5 gallon bucket with a fish fryer setup?
I just smelted a bucket of ww"s that I had previously sorted the zinc out of. I use an old propane plumbers pot that would be similar to a turkey frier set up. It took me about 1.5 hrs, start to finish and clean up to do about 95 lbs.

[Green Frog]

The guy at the scrap yard let me hand pick my own weights. I told him I just wanted the leas ones and no zinc. Said he had never seen zinc weights.
after sorting through and picking 50#'s out I showed him. Said he never knew!! Charged me $45 for 50 plus pounds. I mix with range scrap and add a bit of tin and linotype if the melt needs adjustment. I cast slightly hard boolits that can be scratched if you push hard with your thumbnail.

Shiloh

Shiloh,

Even though you could sort out the zinc weights and other detritus, the final price you paid of nearly a dollar a pound is still a little pricy. by the time you melt them down and lose the weight of the steel clips and dirt, I would be surprised if you had 45 #. I've got a bunch of old WW metal that was obtained for free or very cheaply about 25 years ago and rendered into ingots back then... I doubt I'll be buying any now at the prices folks are having to pay, but will go with alternate sources like your range scrap salvage, etc. JMHO, YMMV> :wink:

Froggie

[skeet1]

To me $60.00 for a bucket of wheel weights is about twice what it should be. I have paid $30.00 in the past but more recently have got them for free, this makes a big difference in how I view using them. At little or no cost the only thing I have invested is my time. Considering that in a lot of places you will find that wheel weights are from about 50% to 75% usable the cost should be coming down not going up.

Ken

Ken

[mold maker]

I get where the OP is coming from. In the limited amount of time that i currently have available to devote to hobbies I would rather make and shoot boolets than make ingots. Once I retire then the equation will probably change...but by then lead wheel weights may be just a fond memory.

Don't put off doing stuff till ya retire. I've been retired for 6 years and the to do list gets longer every day.
When I was working 45-55 hr a week, I seemed to find time for most anything I wanted. It's just a matter of taking time for yourself, that counts.

[Boyscout]

I sort out any questionable wheel weights and smelt at a pretty high temperate, 750+. After I have removed the clips, I feed in questionable weights; if they don't start melting immediately, I take them out quickly and pitch them. I do not put in any that have Zn stamped on them.

As far as wasting time, I have lots of time in small blocks that I can do short runs casting or smelting. It's finding time to shoot that is hard for me. I hunt and spend "non-productive" hours in a tree; it is time well spent and I do not consider my time spent casting in the cost of my bullets. The process is what I do for entertainment. I look forward to taking my first "cast bullet" deer next fall. I have a friend who would like his son to try some cast bullets in his Handi-rifle next fall. I told him he could come over and cast his own bullets, load his own with my help, and then kill a deer with his own handi-work. My time is too precious to just give the stuff away to someone who is just looking for a new ammunition source.
They have been using the Hornandy Lever-evolution .44 Rem Mag with mixed results and are not very happy with them.

[TXGunNut]

If I tried to equate the value of my time spent doing this, my bullets would be worth way more than what I saw at a gun show yesterday.-BBQJOE


Agreed, I got into this hobby because I couldn't buy a decent boolit for a rifle project I was working on. First session produced better boolits than I could buy. I find sorting, smelting and casting therapeutic as well. Glad I didn't get into this to save money!

[10mmShooter]

Silverjay,

with my setup I did a full bucket about 2 months ago, took about 2 hours, guess I;m slow.

72372

[dtknowles]

Simple little post says it all right there. Why are so many people so darn defensive ?
I hate it when people go sideways, Do it correctly then decide if you don't want to do it.
Maybe it's just the way it comes across on the puter screen.
Since when do folks have to make excuses for giving someone good advise.

I think it is all about how it comes across on the computer screen. People not following who is responding to which comment. I was responding to this Originally Posted by BBQJOE "If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit." I am not the OP and was just defending the OP's post which I do too often, I should let them speak for themselves. The good advice, I left to stand and the good advice posters made other good posts as well. Just to change the subject, I have made a few ingots myself but I really would not call it smelting. I usually blend my alloy in my casting pot but after a casting session I will melt some range scrap and pour into ingot molds. If I have any wheel weights I throw them in with the range scrap at that time because I never have many that I have picked up while walking. Beside my Lyman ingot mold I have a rig that lets me make 2 ounce ingots so I can get a full pot at the right ratios.

I don't have a big burner and pot and don't really want more stuff to store. It is hard enough to keep what I got organized. I can't seem to convince myself to sell any guns :-)

[Finster101]

I think the comment about time was just a joke. At least I took it that way.

I usually wait till I have a few hundred pounds of wheel weights to do an ingot day. That seems to make it worth breaking out the equipment and I set it up at the pole barn. The last one was 8 hrs and I ended up with about 500 lbs in ingots. I work at a dealership and have friends at a couple of other shops so I get the weights for free. I usually kick the shop owners a few reloads and they are happy. Now that makes the only real investment my time. If I could buy ingots for what it cost me to make them I would sure have to consider it. $60.00 a bucket does sound high no matter how quickly you process them.

[41 mag fan]

How long does it take to smelt a 5 gallon bucket with a fish fryer setup?

Can't answer that one, but i can answer that a 3/4 full 55gal drum took me exactly 7 days 5-6 hrs per day to smelt. And 2 1/2 tanks of propane.
I used 4 bread loaf pans, and 2 lee ingot molds to make my ingots in.

[41 mag fan]

Don't put off doing stuff till ya retire. I've been retired for 6 years and the to do list gets longer every day.
When I was working 45-55 hr a week, I seemed to find time for most anything I wanted. It's just a matter of taking time for yourself, that counts.

That's because you're RETIRED!!!!! Things are supposed to get backed up, because you're taking it easy!!!
you've earned it!!

[451whitworth]

i gotta agree with you Foto Joe. if i was paying for wheel weights (something i've never done) with valve stems, steel, zinc, cig butts, etc. in the mix, i wouldn't want to sort it either. i guess i'm lucky in that i started collecting my supply of ww's back when they would give them to you just for asking and they were all lead alloy.

[BBQJOE]

Well, here's today's Christmas tree ingots.72394

[jdgabbard]

In my opinion the OP should evolve his casting setup. There is tons saved over commercial. YOUR time might be valuable. But it's only being wasted because of the way you're trying to do it. Even a coleman stove and a cast iron skillet is 100 times faster then the way you're trying to do it. I just did two buckets using the skillet method about 3 months ago in the span of a day. It was a weekend project, and I now have several hundred pounds to pour. If you're translating that into boolits, thats almost 60 9mm boolits, 30 .45acp boolits, 45 38/357 boolits, or almost 40 10mm/40/30cal boolits. At .60 a pound you're looking about about 1 - 1.50 a box. If saving almost 20 dollars a box and doing it right doesn't break even on what you consider your time to be worth, I'd like to take out an interest free loan from you.

[Smoke4320]

To me its fun to be able to turn what was trash/scrap into boolits
I am able to taylor my boolits to my use and have a constant supply

[jmort]

Here in California "free" lead is hard to come by. No lead wheel weights anymore except what is left around post ban. I picked up 50 pounds of "hard" 5% lead shot, 60 pounds of COWW, and 50 pounds os "soft" lead scrap and sinkers for $60 and was very happy to get it. Those of you who get free lead are to be envied. I would pay a dollar a pound if I could find some to buy. The best deal I can get is around $1.50 per pound delivered from vendor/members on this site.

[Finster101]

I understand the OPs point. For not much more money he could have gotten the same amount of lead and it ready to use for casting. I don't think what he saved would be worth the investment of time to me. I don't mind smelting but I can't say I enjoy it. That's why I try to do a big batch and only have to do it 2 or 3 times a year.

[nwellons]

This has been a great thread. It just shows how different everyone is and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm retired with nearly a lifetime supply of lead now. It isn't as hard to do when you are 76!

I really enjoy scrounging lead and get about 2/3 by paying .50 lb for ww and the other 1/3 is free. I don't mind sorting at all and like stick-on as well as clip-on weights since I shoot a lot of BP cartridges and they use a lot of lead.

I enjoy smelting and watching junk turn into beautiful ingots. I enjoy casting in itself although I got into it to cast boolits for obsolete BP cartridge guns and it was the only way I could find the correct size. Now I cast for lots more guns and it is just a great way to spend time.

And of course, I like shooting them. Mining the berm would be fine with me if they would let me but no luck there.

I stay busy in retirement and scrounging/smelting/casting/shooting is one of my favorite parts. Another is hanging out on boards like this one both to learn more and enjoy reading interesting threads.

[BubbaJon]

A big factor is keeping the temp. low enough to melt the lead yet ladle the zink out when it floats to the top, eliminating the sorting before going into the pot.
After being "blessed" with zinc contamination I ALWAYS pre-sort now. I'm pretty sure what happens is the clips get tangled and keeps the zinc under long enough to melt some. I consider pre-sort to be worth every second it takes. But that's just me after many many hours of trying to clean that 45 lbs of alloy up.

[mroliver77]

WW got to be too expensive and such a hassle that I gave up on them. I put out the word that I am looking for lead, solder, pewter etc. Friends have found and/or brought me quite a bit. Scrap yard gave me a ton of lead sheathed phone cable. I cut the lead off and burned the wire clean last year when the copper price was outrageous. The scrap owner wanted a couple boxes of 45 acp too.
J

[David2011]

Since we're on the subject of WW's....

Can somebody give me a "Starting Temperature" for casting? I really haven't found a definitive answer in the stickies other than too hot will cause oxidation on the top of the melt (which I did find when I was casting ingots). And too cold will result in rejects.

That's kind of a broad question without knowing your alloy, what kind of mold and the caliber/weight of the boolit. Generally, smelt at 650 degrees F. That will prevent zinc from melting and allow you to scoop any missed zinc weights out of the melt before they ruin it.

When you're casting, the melt may work well starting at around 750 degrees F. The real control of your casting temperature is in your pace. It must be a steady pace. If the boolits are coming out with symptoms of being too cold, cast faster. If they're shiny and perfect, don't change anything. If they're slightly frosty, that's good. You're going as fast as you can and getting good boolits. If they're heavily frosted and the puddle on top of the mold is taking more than 3-4 seconds to freeze then everyting is way too hot so slow down. I usually do a new pour about every 20 seconds. That's with a bottom pour 22 pound furnace, iron or steel molds casting 150-250 grain boolits between .358 and .452 diameter.

If the melt is turning blue on the surface it's way too hot. You can cast with the melt running much lower than 750 degrees is you go fast enough. One specific temperature isn't the gold standard- it's only one of several variables that all have to mesh together.

You'll know it when your mix of factors is right. Write down everything you can quantify when you hit that moment so you can repeat it. Melt temp, mold type, alloy type and pace of casting are all important.

David

[David2011]

How long does it take to smelt a 5 gallon bucket with a fish fryer setup?

IMO, that's the beginning of a plan for disaster. A gallon of molten lead weighs about 125 pounds. I doubt that most commercial burner stands would support 5 gallons of molten lead. I use a 5 quart cast iron dutch oven on a Cajun burner and it takes about 15-20 minutes to start melting. Once it starts, the whole pot is molten pretty quickly.

David

[David2011]

Sorry for 3 posts in a row. I don't think I've done that before.

The one thing we all have here regardless of the value of our time, is the ability to continue to shoot while our friends who believe in the superiority of J-words don't, it that we're still able to shoot during the crunch. If you have even the slightest prepper instincts, you're much more confident than your buddies who burned their ammo learning how to use their new AR to defend against zombies. It's rare to see commercially cast boolits that look as good as those we make. We're just a little more self-sufficient that everyone else.

David

[lead chucker]

I enjoy smelting and casting bullets. It has a calming affect on me. When I'm doing it I'm in my own little world. Like another guy posted, it's nice to be able to make your own bullets when every one else is running around paying high dollar for factory ammo.

[Foto Joe]

Believe me, I'm not "thin skinned". When I screw up or do something stupid (which happens from time to time) I gladly take my lumps and try to learn from it. Unfortunately the typed word can be much more easily misconstrued than a verbal conversation and it's quite common for that to happen on forums. My problem is that I work long hours and my time does have value. The lessons that I learned smelting that first bucket of wheel weights was really time well spent but in the future it will probably be worth it at least to me to find a less time consuming method. Granted I definitely need something other than a ten pound pot if I'm going to continue with wheel weights.

At this point in time I'm extremely ignorant of casting but I'm trying to rectify that ignorance and this forum has brought me quite a few tidbits of knowledge in a short time. My desire to cast my own is mainly for smokeless not Black Powder since 1911's and even wheel guns tend to eat a lot more than an 1851 Navy.

Having said all that I'm afraid you guys are stuck with me. I'll of course keep asking what to some might be overtly simple questions but given time I might just make a decent boolit caster.

The difference between ignorance and stupidity is that ignorance is curable.

[Finster101]

Joe, like anyplace once you hang around for a while you will get a feel for personalities. I think the lines on time and money saved on doing this is a running joke. Most of us do it just because we enjoy it. There is a lot of knowledge on this forum and people willing to share it. Welcome aboard.

James

[mroliver77]

Joe my smelter is a freon tank with the top cute out for a crucible and 1/2 of a water tank with a gas burner from a hot water heater in the bottom. The pot sits on a grate inside the larger tank so that the heat surrounds the pot. Took me an hour to build it. Takes about an hour to do a 5 gal bucket from dead cold.(2 batches)

Here is how others do it.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?707-One-home-smelting-production-setup
J

[Rooster]

Yeah, it is much cheaper than a therapist (sp?). I figure I've saved thousands in that one aspect and I don't go to the bars and drink anymore so that is probably pushing it into the millions saved. Ha!

[jonk]

Welcome to the world of casting!

I only buy pure lead; I get wheelweights for free, as dad used to teach a local tire shop owner's son. He still goes there for his oil changes and tire rotations, and picks up about 30 pounds every few months- the store does sell them to a scrap dealer, but whatever is on hand when dad comes in, the guy gives to my dad for free, and my dad lets me have them.

I sure wouldn't ever BUY old, greasy wheelweights full of a mix of lead, zinc, steel, and assorted garage garbage. The things I've found in those weights... a glass jar with dried minnows, needles, dead mice, fishing sinkers (which I took out and kept for fishing), an old shoe minus the laces... not to mention the usual tire valve stems and caps and pieces of tire. If my source dried up (and I have about 500 pounds in the basement, for me about a 10 year supply), I'd go to range berm mining before I bought any. I've done that experimentally before; my range is unfortunately very clay like, so sifting on sight doesn't work; but a 5 gallon bucket filled with whatever I can shovel in yields about 10 pounds of lead after I power wash all the clay off. I then take 5 gallons of dirt back with me from my compost pile, which makes more dirt than I ever will need. (Before you try this, you might ask the range if they mind).

If you do find the weights cheaper or free, then they are well worth it. I don't worry about the zinc or steel; I just dump it all in the pot and heat it until the lead just melts; the zinc has a higher melting point and floats to the top, as does the steel. If you don't overheat, the zinc won't melt in.

Other thoughts- go to an indoor range and buy their scrap. It will be all lead and copper jackets; the cores melt out just fine and the scrap jackets can be sold for scrap.

[Nix]

That's way too much for WW; I pay $0.25/lb and that's in Canuck-Bucks.

[Duckiller]

I would not reccommmend anyone forgo hand sorting. It is a sure way to get rid of most of the bad weights. Keeping melt temp low with steel and zinc floating on the surface takes care of oversights and errors.

[45auto]

I pay $0.25/lb and that's in Canuck-Bucks.

That's way too much for WW. I pay $0/lb for them and that's in Yankee dollars. ;-)

[johntkd]

If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.
that is a fact But I rather enjoy casting my own bullets, loading them and popping paper its an even bigger accomplishment to me when i use home made bullets for hunting and bring home meat from my own work although going to a range and showing the guy with the deep pockets who has the match ammo and all the bells and whistles for his weapon that his ammo is not superior in accuracy to what i am shooting has its own thrill as well ;)

[DLCTEX]

I smelted two 5 gal. buckets of WW this week end that were my oldest scavenged weights, probably 8 years old. I sorted them and found not one zinc weight, very few iron ones, and only about 1 pound of stick on-s. One bucket was metal and when I tried to lift by the bail the bottom stayed put. The plastic pail crumbled to pieces. These have been sitting outside that long. I usually smelt only one bucket at a time and before doing more I will make some more ingot moulds. I have one I made from 1" angle X 7" with four cavities. The other is 1 1/2" X 8" 3 cav. I spent a lot of time waiting for ingots to cool. I tried cooling them by running the hose under them, then had to dry the moulds with a torch before pouring more. It wasn't too much of a delay as my back was giving me fits with all the bending and lifting. If you have much to smelt, use plenty ingot moulds.

[Foto Joe]

@johntdk,

It's kind of like hanging three golf balls at 15 yards from the target stand then taking about three minutes to load an 1851 "Fake" Navy while one of my buddies blasts away at them with their "plastic gun". Then while they're reloading magazines I can pull the hammer back 3-5 times and make all the golf balls disappear downrange. I know pride is a sin but it can be sooo satisfying once in a while. Of course that particular '51 has been my "experimental" gun for years and makes most folks look like good shots. That's why I seldom let anybody shoot it, I don't want to spoil the mystique.

[TNJoel]

I have been buying wheel weights from a tire shop at $15 for a 50 lb box, my smelter is an old propane tank that I unscrewed the valve on, washed out several times, then cut off just below the curve, it holds about 200 lbs of lead if I filled it, but afraid the turkey fryer won't take the strain. I'm fairly new to casting for my pistols, but I'm a hospice nurse who travels and this is my way of turning my brain off and concentrating on only one thing.. much cheaper than drinking or divorce!!

[bangerjim]

If you put a value on your time when it comes to casting and reloading, you should quit.


What I told the wife:

"This hobby of reloading will save me money!"

A hobby that started out to save me hundreds has now cost me thousands. Oh well....you don't have side pockets on your casket!

[lka]

What I told the wife:

"This hobby of reloading will save me money!"

A hobby that started out to save me hundreds has now cost me thousands. Oh well....you don't have side pockets on your casket!

My wife was told we wouldn't need to worry about finding ammo anymore.

[Forrest r]

A lot of people like & use wheel weights, myself I prefer range lead for the following reasons:

It's free
I've sold the copper jackets to the local scrap yards for decades (#2 copper/made $300+ last year alone).
It's softer than ww's which I perfer of what I use/shoot (38spl, 44spl, 45acp, lite mags & hp's).
If I want a harder boolit just add water (they come out around 14bhn water dropped) or add alloys.

[Sensai]

I hear people comparing how much their time is worth for this task or the other and to me it just doesn't wash. If you're going to do it for one thing, you have to do it for everything because time all comes out of the same pot. So if smelting for an hour costs you around 45 dollars, then an eight hour night's sleep costs about 360 dollars. An hour watching the evening news on TV is 45 dollars, and an hour complaining about how much time costs you is 45 bucks. I've got to go now, I can't afford to spend anymore time on this subject. It's already cost me too much!![smilie=1:

[truckjohn]

I have thought the same thing myself many times... Gosh - this just takes WAY too long... etc etc etc...

The thing is... Faster generally equates to more $$$,$$$ invested.... Sometimes not, but it always equates to more junk you gotta keep track of.....

So... You melt your WW's in a 20# Electric pot and you DON'T have to keep track of:
Pots you CANT use for ANYTHING ELSE
Big gas burners you CANT use for ANYTHING ELSE
and OTHER STUFF you can't use for ANYTHING ELSE....

So... Even the cheap $30.00 Harbor Freight dutch oven I use for smelting over a camp fire... CANT BE USED FOR ANYTHING ELSE.... and I gotta keep track of it.... Make sure it doesn't end up in the "Useful" pile, etc....

There's no shame in realizing this... and also carefully evaluating it....
So sure - the 20# electric melter takes a while... but it also means you don't have to keep track of other equipment.... You won't be doing it every day - only once in a while... so is there REALLY a need to buy a bunch of dedicated equipment when you are only going to "Smelt" a couple times a year?

The other thing you may realize is.... If you buy from someone else.....
They already dealt with sorting...
They dealt with clips, chewing tobacco, tire stems, shoes, trash, junk.....
They already dealt with the dross produced....
You let them keep track of the extra equipment they needed to make it all happen...
Etc....

So... Maybe you buy 100# of lead in ingots.... You pay $150 for it... but 100# is about 3,500 bullets... which is a pile of bullets.... That's going to take you a while to cast it all up.... If you do 500 in a session - that's 7 sessions of casting....

So... Thinking out of the box a bit here... There are ways to take advantage of the system... Perhaps you could trade dirty scrap lead you find to your Ingot buddy for processed lead....

Thanks

[surfanarchist]

I've only ever paid once for a bucket of wheel weights and that was $10. I don't go back there. I do buy sodas and beer from time to time for some of the places I hit up. But if I figured how much a had sunk in moulds, my bottom pour pot, propane gas stove and such, well, maybe one day I'll break even. But for me it's about being self sufficiant, and about self satisfaction. You can't put a value on that.

I always hand sort. Zink has a higher melting temp but I think that areas of the pot do get hot enough to melt the z ******** even if my thermometer says I'm at or below 700 overall. What I will not do anymore is buy lead ingots off Ebay from unknown sources. I KNOW that craps up my pot.

[375RUGER]

How sure can one be that when one places a bid and that is the winning bid that in fact the ingoted product one is bidding on that has been so carefully sorted and melted and fluxed 3X is in fact as the description states is and only is comprised of wheel weights and lead wheel weights only?

[jmort]

"How sure can one be that when one places a bid and that is the winning bid that in fact the ingoted product one is bidding on that has been so carefully sorted and melted and fluxed 3X is in fact as the description states is and only is comprised of wheel weights and lead wheel weights only?"

By buying from a member here that has a clue as to how to properly smelt.

[dakotashooter2]

I have more time than money.. I can smelt down a bucket in 1 1/2-2 hrs while multitasking other things in the garage. Buying an equivalent amount of ingots would cost me 3/4 a days pay.........or more....... not to mention I enjoy it more than working........... I also do it in off time when I really don't have much else to do. Most of mine is done in the dark winter evenings..........

[truckjohn]

I found a 25% off coupon for Harbor Freight, and bought myself one of their dutch ovens....

I build a camp fire.. Dutch oven in the middle... Full of Wheel weights or range scrap... and Wait.... Once the fire burns down - I CAREFULLY open up the lid with a long stick and stir it a little with a long stick.... Pop, squirt, fizzle, etc...

Generally - your giant pile of WW's ends up making a pot that's about 25% full of lead and 50% full of junk.....