Aluminum pot for smelting?

[mikeym1a]

I just bought a fish fryer for smelting. It came with an aluminum fryer pan. I don't eat out of aluminum (read once where Alzhiemer patients have high aluminum levels in their blood), so I won't be using that. But, could it be used for smelting lead? I have an old freon can that I intend to re-purpose, but am curious. Any ideas?? I can still use the burner for fish and turkey and chicken, but, I'll have a nice stainless pot for that.:D

[Idz]

I use an aluminum pot for melting down my range scrap and have no problems. It holds about 25 lbs of scrap and I melt it over a 7500 btu/hr grill side burner. It takes about a 1/2 hr to melt down and yields about 12 lbs of lead. The thing to watch out for is having too high a burner output when you start out. Without liquid lead in the pot you could overheat and melt a hole in the aluminum. My grill burner is low enough output that I can run it full out without problems. Some of those fryers can output 20000-50000 btu/hr so be careful.

[imashooter2]

Aluminum weakens dramatically at the elevated temperatures used in smelting and casting. It can fail without warning leaving you standing in a puddle of molten metal. This is generally regarded as a bad thing.

Steel and iron only for melting lead.

[colombo]

Hot aluminum is very weak, I'd never trust it with a load of hot lead in it.

I've melted quite a bit of aluminum scrap over the years and one of the tricks I learned early on was to heat up oversize pieces on top of the smelter and hit them with a hammer to break them up fast and easy. Of course I've also carelessly sorted metal and once put a piece of magnesium on top to heat up and break...
Let's just say I saw the light shortly after.

[mikeym1a]

Aluminum weakens dramatically at the elevated temperatures used in smelting and casting. It can fail without warning leaving you standing in a puddle of molten metal. This is generally regarded as a bad thing.

Steel and iron only for melting lead.

Yeah, I would call that a bad thing, especially if it landed on my feets! Guess I'll be getting that old freon can out sooner rather than later. Many Thanks.

[trixter]

I had a welder friend cut a propane tank in 1/2, well actually about 1/3 and it works real nice and is round bottomed and allows me to get all of the lead out.

[D Crockett]

just to let you know I have 2 propane pots left they have a spout on them so you can get all your lead out if you want one pm me and I will give you the detals on it D Crockett

[jhalcott]

IF that pot is like the one that came with MY Turkey fryer, I would not put 2- pounds of liquid lead in it. That thing is THIN!! It would bulge out the bottom with 30-50 pounds in it. It IS big enough, but I'm to chicken!

[Ben]

Why gamble with re-constructive surgery and skin grafts over a 20 - 30 dollar STEEL pot. Pay the money and move over into the arena of safety.

It isn't worth the gamble with aluminum.

[ncbearman]

I have been using a propane tank cut in half since I was a teenager (40 years) well technically I'm on my 2nd one. I gave the first one away.

[afish4570]

Yeah, I would call that a bad thing, especially if it landed on my feets! Guess I'll be getting that old freon can out sooner rather than later. Many Thanks.

Article in Casting Equipment by me or others, and search to see how others have done this safely...... Takes 10 min for a neat cut with a 4 " mini grinder and half of a $1.00 (on sale bought in 10 or 5 pks. from Harbor Freight). Remember to follow instructions and safety warnings so you don't hurt yourself. afish4570[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[mikeym1a]

Article in Casting Equipment by me or others, and search to see how others have done this safely...... Takes 10 min for a neat cut with a 4 " mini grinder and half of a $1.00 (on sale bought in 10 or 5 pks. from Harbor Freight). Remember to follow instructions and safety warnings so you don't hurt yourself. afish4570[smilie=1:[smilie=1:
Thanks for all the replies. I've been trying to build a semi-portable reloading bench, and just checked on this thread. Had to get that lumber out of the way to get to the freon can. It's the same size as a 20lb propane can. I've had it for ages. Got it from my dad when he was still doing refrigerator repair. I work part-time at an equipment rental store, and they have a plasma cutter there. I figured I'd take it in and have the shop chief slice it open for me. I had my doubts about the aluminum pot, and the responses reinforced that. Like I said, I won't cook or eat out of aluminum, and now I won't use it for lead. My son has actually bugged me about getting the pot made so we can try out the new burner. Tee-Hee! I think I'm getting him hooked on this.:p

[cat223]

When I smelt range scrap I use an aluminum stock pot that came with a fryer to toss the dross and bullet jackets into after skimming it from the top of the melt. After it cools you can put it in anything, but that stuff is HOT coming right out of the pot.

[6bg6ga]

Aluminum is a no no unless you have a desire to meet your maker and deceased family members and friends. There is such a thing as being cost efficient and being totally stupid. Do not error on the stupid side and get rid of the aluminum pots and pans. If your trying to stretch a buck then go to you local AC/heating contractor and beg or buy an empty R22, R12 or similar canister and simply cut it in two. You could also use an EMPTY propane canister exercising caution so you don't blow your butt to hell.

Aluminum may seem to be holding up but it can and will let you down causing severe injury and or death. If your dead your casting and loading days will be over so if you enjoy the fruits of casting, reloading, and shooting I highly suggest that you pull your head out of your *** and do things correctly and safely.

[mold maker]

As a Boy Scout, I fried bacon and eggs in a brown paper bag, over a campfire. The worst that could happen, was the fiery loss of breakfast.
Using an aluminum pot to melt lead is just way too dangerous. The melt temps we use with lead, might not reach that of aluminum, but it can and will lose strength, and slump like a wet cardboard box. It simply isn't worth the chance.

[Idz]

Years ago when I started melting down range scrap I looked at the various pots and burners and couldn't find any real information on the safety of each type. Cast iron is a favorite of many but its failure mode is brittle fracture which is almost impossible to predict. I looked at my aluminum and SS cooking pots and calculated a worst case estimate of the safety factor as each different pot reached its yield strength at various temperatures. At 800 F a turkey fryer had a SF of 13, the SS was 120, and my little Al pot was 58. Since I'm not a weight lifter I chose to work with the smaller quantity of about 25 lbs of scrap in my small smelting pot. After about 300 lbs of smelted lead my little pot shows no signs of distress. I'm curious if anybody has any real data (or calculations) on using aluminum pots in a rational fashion or if its all just speculation.

[6bg6ga]

Years ago when I started melting down range scrap I looked at the various pots and burners and couldn't find any real information on the safety of each type. Cast iron is a favorite of many but its failure mode is brittle fracture which is almost impossible to predict. I looked at my aluminum and SS cooking pots and calculated a worst case estimate of the safety factor as each different pot reached its yield strength at various temperatures. At 800 F a turkey fryer had a SF of 13, the SS was 120, and my little Al pot was 58. Since I'm not a weight lifter I chose to work with the smaller quantity of about 25 lbs of scrap in my small smelting pot. After about 300 lbs of smelted lead my little pot shows no signs of distress. I'm curious if anybody has any real data (or calculations) on using aluminum pots in a rational fashion or if its all just speculation.


Your curious if anybody has any real data? Yes, they fail sooner or later. Various members here have had experience with aluminum pot failure. Is that enough? It is for me.

[imashooter2]

Years ago when I started melting down range scrap I looked at the various pots and burners and couldn't find any real information on the safety of each type. Cast iron is a favorite of many but its failure mode is brittle fracture which is almost impossible to predict. I looked at my aluminum and SS cooking pots and calculated a worst case estimate of the safety factor as each different pot reached its yield strength at various temperatures. At 800 F a turkey fryer had a SF of 13, the SS was 120, and my little Al pot was 58. Since I'm not a weight lifter I chose to work with the smaller quantity of about 25 lbs of scrap in my small smelting pot. After about 300 lbs of smelted lead my little pot shows no signs of distress. I'm curious if anybody has any real data (or calculations) on using aluminum pots in a rational fashion or if its all just speculation.

Engineering Design Manuals are chock full of real data. Most of it is pretty dry reading, but it is widely available through Google searches.

Doing something dangerous without catastrophic result, even many times over a period of years, does not make that dangerous action safe. You are an adult. Make your choices and live with the results.

[DLCTEX]

Can we get a sticky titled "DO NOT USE ALUMINUM FOR SMELTING" ?

[mikeym1a]

Well, I decided against using the aluminum pot, although it seemed quite heavy. Too bad it wasn't SS. If it had been, I'd definitely us it for cooking. It's a good looking pot. Anyway, I took my old freon can into the shop and got the guys to cut it apart for me, and weld the handles off the top to the sides of my 'new' pot. After grinding to clean up 'smarf', I polished up the inside to take off the rust that had formed. Stainless steel wool is really neat! cleaned up the inside really well. Set up my fish fryer burner, leveled it up, and smelted away. In about an hour, I had 39lbs, +/-, of ingots nicely laid out on the bench outside. I only quit when my son said that the taco's were ready. (I DO have my priorities!) Anyway, it really works well, and the curved bottom really helps. Now I ready to tackle 'mountains' of wheel weights, if any are left.....

Thanks for all the advise. MM

[mikeym1a]

When I smelt range scrap I use an aluminum stock pot that came with a fryer to toss the dross and bullet jackets into after skimming it from the top of the melt. After it cools you can put it in anything, but that stuff is HOT coming right out of the pot.

I redid my roof with roll roofing last year, and had several empty roofing tar buckets saved. What for? I don't know, but, one is now getting filled with clips and dross. There's another in the front yard that is over half full. I'm gonna take it and run it back through to recover any lead that inadvertantly got tossed . There may not be any, but, there is a lot of dross in there. With my new pot, it won't take long. It is fun melting stuff!!!

[birddog]

Hey Mike what do you want for the aluminum pan?
Charlie

[mikeym1a]

I just remembered, As I was going to set up the fryer for its maiden run, I opened the sliding door to go out the back, reached around behind me to grab the fryer, and my son said 'DON'T MOVE'! I froze. He said to look to my right. I carefully turned my head and looked into a pair of very large brown eyes. It was a large doe, 6 ft away. (Uh, the back yard needs mowing....) She didn't spook, and I said 'Well, hello! How are you?' After a moment, she turned and walked away, kinda wobbly. She walked about 20 feet into the back yard, paused and looked at me, and then I saw a small movement from where she had been. It was a fawn, barely larger than my cat. It got up and followed 'momma', also a bit unsteady on its feet. The grass where she had been laying was quite pressed down, as if she had been there a while. She may have had that fawn right there. I hadn't been in the yard for about 36hrs. I've never seen one that small, before. Too bad I didn't have a camera handy.

[mikeym1a]

Hey Mike what do you want for the aluminum pan?
Charlie

The pot is 12.5" X 5". If you really want it, send me a PM, and we'll arrange the transfer.

mm

[holeysocks]

I use a large Stainless Steel mixing bowl,, I bought at Goodwill for $3.99

[6bg6ga]

Well, I decided against using the aluminum pot, although it seemed quite heavy. Too bad it wasn't SS. If it had been, I'd definitely us it for cooking. It's a good looking pot. Anyway, I took my old freon can into the shop and got the guys to cut it apart for me, and weld the handles off the top to the sides of my 'new' pot. After grinding to clean up 'smarf', I polished up the inside to take off the rust that had formed. Stainless steel wool is really neat! cleaned up the inside really well. Set up my fish fryer burner, leveled it up, and smelted away. In about an hour, I had 39lbs, +/-, of ingots nicely laid out on the bench outside. I only quit when my son said that the taco's were ready. (I DO have my priorities!) Anyway, it really works well, and the curved bottom really helps. Now I ready to tackle 'mountains' of wheel weights, if any are left.....

Thanks for all the advise. MM

mikeym1a,

I have to take my hat off to you for being realistic and listening to the advise that we have given you concerning the usage of the Aluminum pot or pan. We can rest easier knowing that one more member is smelting lead with a safe container. As you mention the freon container does make a nice pot for smelting. The fact that you smelted 39+ lbs of ingots in an hour is a testiment to both the pan and your abilities.

Now for those taco's.... got that taco recipe?

Happy smelting and the best to you.

[mikeym1a]

mikeym1a,



Now for those taco's.... got that taco recipe?

Happy smelting and the best to you.

As to the recipe, I use an Old El Paso dinner kit. I use ground turkey, rather than beef. I start the meat cooking, and start adding the dry spice and the taco sauce when it is about 1/2 cooked. I use a large fork to make the meat into very small pieces. As the meat cooks, I add extra sauce and dry spice, to taste. Sometimes I do better than others. I dice up tomatoes (I prefer the plum type), red onion, lettuce, and cheese. I like cheddar, but my son prefers the 4 cheese mix, so, we usually get that. I like the hard corn shells, but, if I'm just having a salad, I use the store brand that look like 'Tostitos'. It's not hard to fix, tastes good, and is a fairly well balanced meal, as long as you don't eat too much. Meat, veggies, dairy, grain. I like them. I use the ground turkey because the beef seems to heavy. (I like my beef in slab form!):-P

[knowitsome]

Hello all, new to this site.
Do not, do not, do not, do not, do not .......... use
aluminum for a smelting pot. Don't learn this from
experience. knowitsome

[mikeym1a]

Hello all, new to this site.
Do not, do not, do not, do not, do not .......... use
aluminum for a smelting pot. Don't learn this from
experience. knowitsome
Yeah, that's been more or less the consensus, here. I was leery of it, and the cautions of others caused me to not try it. I don't eat out of it either, nor do I drink out of aluminum vessels. The make good heat sinks, and other things, like airplanes, but, I decided not to cook lead in aluminum.

[gmsharps]

Cast iron smelting pots can be had from yard sales or flea markets for usually a fair price. Beats the heck out of taking a chance on aluminum.

gmsharps

[troutman]

Yeah, that's been more or less the consensus, here. I was leery of it, and the cautions of others caused me to not try it. I don't eat out of it either, nor do I drink out of aluminum vessels. The make good heat sinks, and other things, like airplanes, but, I decided not to cook lead in aluminum. Don't mean to be a smartXXX but if you eat at resturants no matter how high end you have eaten food prepared in aluminum, and cooked in aluminum.

[Buckshot Bill]

I have an old freon tank out in the barn, and was wondering how to prepare it for safe cutting to make into a pot.

[country gent]

Buckshot Bill be safe wash it out 2 or three times with dish soap and water Rinse and dry then run an air hose in it with 15-20 lbs pressure blowing in it while cutting. Wrap an old belt around it to get a square true cut and perferably use a hacksaw or electric saw ( no sparks) over a cutting wheel or tourch. The belt will wrap around and make a square edge to follow. Lay it on its side with a couple chocks to keep from rolling and go slow and easy.

[NewbieDave007]

Years ago when I started melting down range scrap I looked at the various pots and burners and couldn't find any real information on the safety of each type. Cast iron is a favorite of many but its failure mode is brittle fracture which is almost impossible to predict. I looked at my aluminum and SS cooking pots and calculated a worst case estimate of the safety factor as each different pot reached its yield strength at various temperatures. At 800 F a turkey fryer had a SF of 13, the SS was 120, and my little Al pot was 58. Since I'm not a weight lifter I chose to work with the smaller quantity of about 25 lbs of scrap in my small smelting pot. After about 300 lbs of smelted lead my little pot shows no signs of distress. I'm curious if anybody has any real data (or calculations) on using aluminum pots in a rational fashion or if its all just speculation.

You want real data? Well, being the brilliant man that I can be sometimes (along with trying to be frugal), I picked up what appeared to be a good solid pot to smelt range lead in. Fast forward to my first smelting day and I started heating 40-50 pounds of range lead in the "sturdy" pot with my 58k BTU burner and approximately 30-40 minutes into it all of the lead appears to have melted out of the jackets, so I turn my back to grab my other pot to put the jackets into and all of the sudden I hear a weird noise. Turn around and the lead is pouring out the bottom of the pot hitting the burner and landing on the grass/dirt backyard lawn. I quickly turn off the propane and throw a muffin pan under the flow.

Once everything cooled down I emptied the pot and noticed stress cracking in roughly a ring shape the size of a softball. That section had also bulged down approximately ½ inch. The lead flow was coming through such a small stress crack that I couldn’t tell which one of the hundreds that it must have been. I immediately called up Goodsteel (as he lives in the same city and a very knowledgeable guy) and ask him what he thinks this could have been. Aluminum, that’s right. If I was actually thinking the day I bought the pot, or maybe took a step back instead of being excited to finally smelt, I would have notice that even though it looked “sturdy” and “solid”, that it was Aluminum and would cause issues. Even though this sucked, I believe this was the best lesson that I have learned in my short smelting/reloading time. No one was injured, even though it could have easily since I had just stirred it and had my feet where it poured out to.

That very day I went out and bought a cast iron “witches brew” style pot that is large enough to have well over 100# (tested/ran the next day) in it. I personally couldn’t have a problem with using an Aluminum pot to hold the stuff that I skim out, but not with direct heat from the burner.

Thanks.
Dave

[Buckshot Bill]

Buckshot Bill be safe wash it out 2 or three times with dish soap and water Rinse and dry then run an air hose in it with 15-20 lbs pressure blowing in it while cutting. Wrap an old belt around it to get a square true cut and perferably use a hacksaw or electric saw ( no sparks) over a cutting wheel or tourch. The belt will wrap around and make a square edge to follow. Lay it on its side with a couple chocks to keep from rolling and go slow and easy.

Thanks for the info, will have to try it.

[D Crockett]

with out getting into details I have had aluminum and cast iron both fail on me. both times I was kind of new to smelting lead and this was before I had a computer. So I did not have access to info like we do now. so here is a offer if you can not afford a good pot I will make you one out of a old propane tank all I ask is you pay the shipping. I usually get $25 for my pots but I would rather give them away than here of someone getting hurt with melted lead using something DANGEROUS D Crockett

[dudel]

My fish/turkey fryer came with an aluminum pot. I used it once. After I did my first smelting run, and everything had cooled off, I started putting things away.

The combination of heat and weight, about 25# (,and cheap pot), had caused the pot to sag into the top of the fryer. Had it let loose, I'd a mess for sure. That pot is long gone.

Found a cast iron dutch oven that's worked great so far.

[beefie]

I use a big old cast iron pot from wally's, I think I saw a $12 tag on them not long ago?

[WILCO]

I use a large Stainless Steel mixing bowl,, I bought at Goodwill for $3.99

Pics??

[Hickory]

Aluminum will disqualify itself with use.

[justcharlie]

we melt aluminum here at work 1180 F. it wil slush out about 900 F your propane burner will get
hotter than that . your lead is 650 to 700 not much room before desaster strikes. just saying
justcharlie

[Dale in Louisiana]

we melt aluminum here at work 1180 F. it wil slush out about 900 F your propane burner will get
hotter than that . your lead is 650 to 700 not much room before desaster strikes. just saying
justcharlie

Plus, when aluminum gets to lead-melting temperatures, it has lost a lot of strength even though it's not melting yet. A tap or a hit on the weakened pot can easily be enough to dump its whole load at once.

People who cast aluminum often take big chunks like engine blocks and transmission cases and put them in a fire to get them hot, then break them apart with a hammer, taking advantage of the weakened state before it gets to melting temperatures.

dale in Louisiana

[mold maker]

I think a sticky is in order just for the dos and don'ts. That way new casters wouldn't have to search out each question, and the collective knowledge here, could be found in one thread.
What I mean is no old wives tales, and no BS. Just proven answers to the questions all new folks ask. Good, no nonsense advice that will keep the new folks safe.
Then we could truly say search and you will find.

[sparkz]

Old freon tanks cut in 1/2 make great smelt pots and can be found at auto repair shops or ask a HVAC guy some are just tossed out but we cut them with a angle grinder or guess a sawzaw will get-er-done,, cheap and easy to do, last forever and safer then alum IMO,


Patrick