Loading 7.62 Nato LC 13 brass

[DonMountain]

I recently acquired a few hundred 7.62 NATO LC 13 (Lake City) brass for use in an old Spanish FR8 military carbine that probably had been converted from 7 mm Mauser in the 50's. After depriming, reaming primer pockets, resizing, trimming, flairing and repriming with Winchester WLR primers, I tried loading a few with 30.0 grains of H4895 powder under an RCBS 30-180-SP-GC a little below the recommended starting load in the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual number 1. They have a range of 32.0 to 34.0 grains in the manual. After firing these few I noticed that the primers were pretty flat, indicating high pressures. So I disassembled the rest in order to start lower. I would also like to fire these loads in my M1-A after some development in this bolt action rifle. So, whats going on here with this brass? Are there better loads and or powders that will shoot well in my FR8 and M1-A rifles with this brass? I also tried some 12.0 grain loads of Unique and it was like shooting a 22 long rifle. Fun at short ranges but not suitable for deer hunting. :???:

[338RemUltraMag]

I would use a slower powder, H-4350 or Re 22 would get you speed with less pressure. I use retumbo and H-1000 with my 30-06 and 180's

[Smoke4320]

Please keep in mind the FR8 is a weaker action .. Do not load to current 308 near max loads ..
stay on the low end and you Should be fine .. a quick internet search will being up mentions of this and the issues
I had one and used Win 748 with great results .. shot many many 1-1.25" groups with the open sights

[Char-Gar]

Bruce B, one of our long time members has done considerable work with the M1A and cast bullets. He has written extensively about that in posts on this site, one of which is a sticky. I would suggest you look it up if you are looking for cast bullet powders in the M1A.

I have used lots of Lake City 30-06 and 7.62 brass and have had not issues with it.

[Larry Gibson]

After firing these few I noticed that the primers were pretty flat, indicating high pressures.

Flattened primers can also indicated a headspace problem. When you resized the cases did you just FL size them by bottoming the shell holder to the base of the die? Or, did you adjust the die so the cartridge headspace matched the chamber headspace. I suspect the former as 30 gr of H4895 is no where near a max load under a 180 gr cast bullet. Suggest you back off to 28 gr H4895 and use a 1/2 gr dacron filler with that 180 gr cast for an excellent load in your FR8. Your fired cases should be fire formed now and NSing would be best hense forth.

BTW; The FR8 is not the "weak action", it is a M98 action. The FR7 was made on the M93 and M1916 SR actions and are considered "weaker" by many. The FR* was converted from 8x57s, the FR7 was converted from 7x57s. Your FR8 is entirely capable of handling the 7.62 NATO or factory .308W pressures.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

how was the groups?
if they were acceptable I wouldn't be worried.

[DonMountain]

After firing these few I noticed that the primers were pretty flat, indicating high pressures.

Flattened primers can also indicated a headspace problem. When you resized the cases did you just FL size them by bottoming the shell holder to the base of the die? Or, did you adjust the die so the cartridge headspace matched the chamber headspace. I suspect the former as 30 gr of H4895 is no where near a max load under a 180 gr cast bullet. Suggest you back off to 28 gr H4895 and use a 1/2 gr dacron filler with that 180 gr cast for an excellent load in your FR8. Your fired cases should be fire formed now and NSing would be best hense forth.Larry Gibson

I inially full length sized the LC-13 7.62 NATO cases and then fired the light loads of Unique with the 180 grain boolit. Then neck sized them with a dedicated neck size die and loaded the 30.0 grains of H4895 with a 3/4 grain square of dacron. And thats when I noticed the flattened primer. They chambered easily but snugly. But I can't see any difference between the original full length sized cases and the neck sized cases. But of course that is only by eye. Due to its light weight as a carbine I thought it would be an excellent deer rifle for one of the 8 year old granddaughters during this fall's deer hunt here on the farm. So I am trying to work up a deer load for it since it is an easy one to get brass for.

[DonMountain]

how was the groups?
if they were acceptable I wouldn't be worried.

From about 50 yards the group was about 10". But that wasn't me shooting them. That was the daughter's husband who grew up in the city and has never fired a gun before. And he was shooting offhand. He had fired several 12.0 grain unique loads with the 180 grain boolit in the FR8 and then I had him fire about 5 of these 30.0 grain H4895 loads when I noticed the flat primers. His starting patterns with the light loads were even worse. Like some not hitting the 24"x36" target. [smilie=1:

[BruceB]

From what you describe, it's likely a RIFLE condition, not high pressure in the load.

My loads in 7.62 NATO have used LC brass with dates which span DECADES, and much of the loading used the "standard" competition load of 41.5 grains of 4895 with a 168-grain (jacketed) match bullet.

This standard load, therefore, uses a charge fully 30% higher than yours, with a bullet which is also a good bit heavier than yours.

If you are satisfied that your scale is accurate, then I would say that you have NO pressure problems with a 30.0 charge of 4895. For whatever reason, your rifle is misleading you. Have you fired any factory loads in that piece, and if so, how did the primers look after firing?

[Char-Gar]

From about 50 yards the group was about 10". But that wasn't me shooting them. That was the daughter's husband who grew up in the city and has never fired a gun before. And he was shooting offhand. He had fired several 12.0 grain unique loads with the 180 grain boolit in the FR8 and then I had him fire about 5 of these 30.0 grain H4895 loads when I noticed the flat primers. His starting patterns with the light loads were even worse. Like some not hitting the 24"x36" target. [smilie=1:

The targets of a fellow firing off hand who has never fired a rifle before will yield no information of value about the rifle or loads.

[Smoke4320]

Larry you are correct... sorry about the misinfo .. .. my memory must be slipping

[Larry Gibson]

Larry you are correct... sorry about the misinfo .. .. my memory must be slipping

No problem, happens to all ofus.....especially the older we get.......[smilie=l:

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

I agree with BruceB, double check the scale to be sure 30 gr (even with a dacron filler) of H4895 was actually used. That should not have flattened any primers. Can you show us a picture of the flattened primers?

Larry Gibson

[whisler]

I had flattened primers in my Spanish Mauser (1916) with what should have been a light load of IMR 4350 and J-word 150 gr. bullets. This was in once fired (in my rifle) military brass. I found that the brass was very slightly over-length. Trimming the brass ended the problem. I believe my chamber is very slightly short in that rifle.

[Char-Gar]

Cases that are too long and protrude into the throat will raise pressure a bunch. Early users of the 220 Swift learned that the hard way.

[uscra112]

Quick and dirty test: Take a sized, primed case and fire it in your rifle, (no bullet pr powder). Look at the case after extraction. If the primer is now protruding more than .002" or so, you have a headspace issue. Either with the rifle or your sizing dies.

Cases which have been fired repeatedly with that light load may have had the shoulder pushed back by the primer explosion, creating a headspace issue. (Why I like rimmed cases for light load shooting.)

[mikeym1a]

Please keep in mind the FR8 is a weaker action .. Do not load to current 308 near max loads ..
stay on the low end and you Should be fine .. a quick internet search will being up mentions of this and the issues
I had one and used Win 748 with great results .. shot many many 1-1.25" groups with the open sights

According to the internet, the FR-8 was based on the large ring Model 98 Mauser action. That was never called a 'weaker' action. The FR-7 was based on the Model 93 Mauser, which is not as strong as the 98.