When to get involved - Dom. Violence

[mnkyracer]

Sorry if this gets long, but I had a situation that I'd like to get some opinions on.

When we moved into our house 10 yrs ago, we were the youngest couple in the neighborhood. Over the past 3 yrs, several houses are now inhabited by younger couples in their early to mid 20's which led to an incident this past Friday.

Background - Couple next door are 20 and 21/22ish with a baby 6 months old and another on the way. Getting married on following Sunday (2 days before incident).

So here's what happened - Friday morning I get off work and pick up my son (8 months old). Sitting in the living room, I hear extremely loud screaming from next door (female). I mean, i've never heard someone scream like this before without being in severe pain. Next I hear the male's voice yelling, but can sorta understand what he is saying. I can see both parties walking thru their house, and don't hear indications that either one are being physically injured. I also did not hear the baby crying, which I am sure would have been happening if she had been in the house. This all went on for approx 20-25 mins before the female left the house.

Here's where my thoughts get muddy. Based on what I witnessed, I didn't get involved, but started to prepare if things escalated. If I had heard the baby in the house, I would have called for a wellfare check on the house. What I can't wrap my head around is at what point would I become physically involved? Police in my area can be 20 - 30 minutes away. Had I witnessed physical abuse IN THEIR HOUSE, at what point would I try to intervene? What makes this harder for me to let the police take full responsibilty is that twice in the past 2 yrs I've had friends involved with domestic murder/suicides.

At what point would you try to stop a physical attack in a neighbor's house?

[mdxdm]

Get involved now. Make a call to the local LEO for checking the welfare. If your gut is telling you something is wrong speak up. I am always reminded of that country song Alyssa Lies, better be that guy that called the cops when not needed than the guilt of not calling when it was IMO

As when to get physical you would have to see something take place before stepping in, and only step in during that action.

As for what would I do?

Call 911, keep phone on for recording purposes while describing what the assailant looks like. Notify 911 that I will be intervening then take any action that I could to assure my safety and hers.

[freebullet]

Ours was good when we moved here over a decade ago, now -not so much. If not for a few good folks still here We'd have left one way or another by now. Cities in general(unless your well funded) are becoming decayed places to live in anymore. I have only broken things up when there were physical and outside under certain circumstances. I wouldn't enter their home unless hearing calls for help, they may be justified in shooting you otherwise. Call the cops if its clearly physical and no one is calling out for help. If they are just yelling there's no crime in that.
I did stop some ghetto gangster punk whom was beating up his pregnant gf she had a toddler on her lap also. He wasn't very happy but realized he wasn't going to come out of his situation very well if he didn't comply with me. Like the true coward he was/is he ran away leaving her with my wife & I. I never got called to testify so I have no clue if he ever paid for his crimes. The more training I've had since then has let me see what I should've done differently. Each situation is different & only your mind & gut can tell you what to do. Keep yourself safe is my best advice.

[starmac]

If they are just yelling I have been known to tell them to tone it down. Beware if you physically step in, usually both will be against you.

[mnkyracer]

I believe that had I heard someone yell "help" or something of the sort, I couldn't wait for the police to arrive. Although they would be on speaker phone for the duration. I just have a feeling that this will not be the last time this is going to happen.

BTW - they did end up getting married on Sunday.

[Airman Basic]

As a cop for 20+ years, I can tell you, leave physical interaction to the cops. I've had spouses beat their better halves half to death, and when I put my hands on the bad guy, the other will fight me to protect them. I've had battered spouses try to shoot me when arresting their mates. You just can't tell. Years ago, I asked a female why she puts up with it. She replied, "You know the way he fights, he loves that same way." I've determined that for some people, it's a lifestyle. Regardless, they're the most violent and unpredictable calls cops encounter, call 911 and let it go.

[Fishman]

Years ago I was outside our first home grilling burgers in a decent little trailer park. I hears screaming and shouting up the street. I stepped around the front of our trailer and witnessed a man in cowboy boots chasing a woman up the street towards me. He caught her right in front of me and put her in a headlock. I recognized them as a couple who lived down the street at that point. Barefoot and having just my spatula and my wits, such as they were, I loudly shouted "do you need any help!?". To which HE replied " No, I got this!".

So I called the cops as he dragged her up the street an believe it or not there were two cars there within five minutes. Afterwards I came out and found out that this was a regular occurrence for them and he would always leave before the cops showed up, leaving her to lie for him.

Something to think about: so in my situation, the abuser knew exactly who called on him. What's to stop him from getting mad and takin it out on my young wife or toddler while I was off working? Thankfully he did not, but he did like to rev his truck with no muffler in front of my house. That problem was fixed without the involvement of the police.

[btroj]

We hear yelling from neighbors all the time. We usually hear "Maybe if you put in your GD hearing aids......".

If it is just yelling then leave it alone. And if the kid is home and they are yelling call for a welfare check? Why? People yell. Calling for a welfare check could lead to all sorts of issues for them.

None of my business. Fine line between being concerned and butting in where you don't belong.

[eljefe]

I would stay out of it...you have a wife and son who need
you more than your drama queen neighbors. If you hear
him hitting her or vice versa, call the law and stay in your
house. It makes no sense to get hurt or dead over someone
else's dysfunctional relationship.

[Trey45]

If anything, make a noise complaint, not a domestic violence complaint. Unless you witness violence anything you "think" might be happening is pure speculation. You need to keep your hands off of them entirely, the moment you physically interact with them during their heated battle, YOU become the bad guy. The cops have a job to do, they've been trained for it, let them do it. I understand completely why you would want to "protect" a neighbor from a violent act, but it's not your job, unless you are directly affected by said violent act. Then all bets are off.

[historicfirearms]

If its just yelling, leave them be. If they are yelling at 2 am and won't stop, then I'd call the police.

An interesting fact: some of the first U.S. minted coins had the words "mind your business" stamped on them. The words meaning can be interpreted a couple different ways, but interesting whichever way you look at it.

[country gent]

In most states the laws allow for self defense of yourself and family and the defense of your property if threatened. If you physically step into this situation you are the agressor no longer self defense but assault. More than likely you will be arrested along with him and go to jailin the same car. WHile you may get a good jury and aquital of the charges. You will more than like be sued by both of them and lose that in court. Stepping into a domestic arguement is tricky buisness as stated above both parties will turn against you. The lady will more than likely be the most aggresive of the 2 to boot. Police are trained to handle this. Most police depts will step up/increase patrols after Domestic fights/ noise complaints. File a complaint with the police when it is happening everytime get the pattern established and on record. But also keep in mind if this was the first time it may be an isolated incedent over something really silly too. If it continues call and report it get it on record and documented. Remeber unless you can justifiable say you were threatened of bodily harm or death stepping in can leave you open to alot of nasty times also. If possible talk to her alone and let her know your concerns, Ill bet she writes it off as nothing important enough for you to concern yourself with.

[sparky45]

One of the few posts you've made that I totally agree with.


We hear yelling from neighbors all the time. We usually hear "Maybe if you put in your GD hearing aids......".

If it is just yelling then leave it alone. And if the kid is home and they are yelling call for a welfare check? Why? People yell. Calling for a welfare check could lead to all sorts of issues for them.

None of my business. Fine line between being concerned and butting in where you don't belong.

[10-x]

I would not set foot on their property, not let "them" see you looking, just make a call.IIRC, my LEO friends used to hate going to domestics for the reasons posted above. I remember my Grandfather telling me stories when he was a Cop in Detroit about 1903. Reason he went back to farming was a domestic. A partner and he responded to a domestic where some drunk was beating his wife. They cuffed the guy and started to take him to the station. The beat up wife started in on them with a wash board, threw a wash tub of water on them and then got a kitchen knife. Guess nothing changes.

[Recluse]

Get to know them first. Let them get to know you. They're a very young couple and have a young child. Lot of pressure and immaturity involved, and that makes for a stressful situation.

If either of them feel they can come to you and your wife to talk, even about anything, the likelihood of you having to physically involve yourself in a bad situation is reduced drastically.

I'm a firm believer in getting to know your neighbors. We live on a cul-de-sac and are the "grandparents" of our little area as all our neighbors are at least fifteen years younger than us. We throw a BBQ a couple of times a year for the neighborhood and all our neighbors know my wife and my backgrounds. We look out for them and their families, and in turn, we have almost a dozen families that dote on us and look out for us.

Things are not always as they seem. Get to know the kids and let them get to know you. Far easier and better to be able to ask them if everything is all right rather than calling the cops every time you think something might be amiss.

:coffee:

[x101airborne]

Well, I might as well wade off into this as well.
Yelling is yelling. Anyone saying they have never yelled at their spouse is either single or a paradigm of Hinduism.
But as a man, I hate any son of a so and so that would hit or abuse a woman. And you are right to be concerned. You can contact your local LE office and explain to them what is going on. Be honest that you have not witnessed anything, but have concerns of the violence escalating. Ask for a frequent patrol for your area. They (here in Texas, anyway) have to log when they do a patrol and if anything is observed. You can remain anonymous and you can know you did not do nothing IF anything ever happens. I used to park on the side of the street near my problem houses and do my paperwork for a few minutes while I observed the house. More than once, five minutes of logging tickets or finalizing the day's stats near the house shut things down quick. And I didn't have to come back to do an offense.
Some of the things I have seen males (not MEN) do to women will turn your guts inside out.
Sometimes I hated wearing the badge. They didn't deserve to be arrested. And I personally have never been opposed while removing an offender.

[popper]

Watch Alaska State Troopers handle D.V. cases. It will give you a visual of what others have said. That said, your responsibility is your family (during and after). Worked with a guy who intervened in a public dispute. Beat the **** out of the offender, who was beating the **** out of his GF. Guess who got to spend the nite in the pokey? Dallas had an incident (murder/suicide) where a youngster escaped and ran to a neighbor, who called 911. Unfortunately the LEO responded to his house and proceeded to beat the door down without announcing (thought the incident was at his address). His wife was on the phone(911) and he had his rifle out to protect his family. It almost turned really bad. My town is supposed to be 1 of the safest in the US, but the police report reads like ****. Yea, I'm probably 40 yrs older than the Yuppie neighborhood, some of them I don't want to know. I consider it like a bad traffic accident - if I can aid immediately, OK, else keep on moving. Be warned, this stuff is going to get much worse.

[Chili]

As a cop for almost 20 years (half military, half civilian) I suggest that you call 9-1-1 and be a great witness. Depending on the laws of your state you could get charged with home invasion if you go into that house armed. It sucks, but are your neighbor's fight worth going to jail over or a civil suit?

[runfiverun]

why does everyone always assume it is the male initiating the problem.
jeez.
talk to any divorced guy for more than 5 minutes and his version about how psychotic his EX is will pop up.
it might also be something simple like she is bent because he went fishing or shooting.

[starmac]

Cuz it is generally the male that gets arrested. A friend of mine called the law himself, so he wouldn't have to deal with his crazy wife , and guess who went to jail.

[fatelk]

I'm so glad I've never had to deal with anything like that. If I were in your shoes though, I think I would take the good advice here and be REALLY careful about getting involved beyond a careful call to the authorities when appropriate. Recluse's advice about getting to know them is excellent. People don't seem to care to get to know their neighbors much any more, not sure why.


Anyone saying they have never yelled at their spouse is either single or a paradigm of Hinduism.
I didn't know I was Hindu, because I'm certainly not single. :) I understand most people at one time or another lose it and raise their voice too much, but I grew up in a home with too much yelling and I hate it with a passion. I have very deliberately never yelled at my wife even once, but I do expect I am a rare exception. Occasional yelling with no sign of physical violence I would just chalk up to a lack of maturity.

[blackthorn]

Gail and I have been together for just over 20 years. It is the second time around for both of us. We have never yelled at each other, nor have we had more than a mild dissagreement and those get settled with a bit of disscussion carried out in an adult manner. I think we get along as well as we do because we each respect the others "space" and we trust each other unconditionally. I try to do something nice for her every day and I suspect she tries to do the same for me.

To stay on topic---I would be very reluctant to interfere in someone elses "fight" unless it became obvious that physical harm was either in progress or clearly close to happening. As mentioned, call 911 and hope they get there ASAP.

[x101airborne]

The two above posts do prove me wrong.
And I am sure you two are not the norm. I congradulate you two on being the men yall are. I also have seen quite a lot of yelling and dont like it, but cannot say I am innocent of yelling. NEVER anything further, but I have yelled. The first year of my marriage was rough and almost didn't make it. Thank GOD for counseling. I cant even remember a real disagreement between me and the missus since that. But like yall said, that yall have seen it and it made an impression on yall that yall carry to this day. Some kids see it and make a personal vow to never do it. Some kids see it and think it is the way things are done. Some kids will see it and take it to the next level. It is a scary situation and I am glad the OP included the child in his concerns.
Sometimes a good Religious experience can help a lot also, although not everyone listens to the Word. I pray everything settles out for the couple and they live together happily for years to come.

[Char-Gar]

As a cop for 20+ years, I can tell you, leave physical interaction to the cops. I've had spouses beat their better halves half to death, and when I put my hands on the bad guy, the other will fight me to protect them. I've had battered spouses try to shoot me when arresting their mates. You just can't tell. Years ago, I asked a female why she puts up with it. She replied, "You know the way he fights, he loves that same way." I've determined that for some people, it's a lifestyle. Regardless, they're the most violent and unpredictable calls cops encounter, call 911 and let it go.

Best counsel you will receive on this subject. I would take it to heart were I you.

[Jammersix]

If I think violence is happening or if you wake me up, you're going to talk to the cops.

If your mate beats you death while we're all waiting for the cops, you should have left yesterday. Don't tell me that it's new. On the up side, in this situation, the cops are a few minutes away, but when they get here, they'll have someone on murder. I'll win either way, because tomorrow night it'll be quiet again.

[fatelk]

I'll never understand why some people (typically women, but sometimes men) will stay with an abusive spouse, but you hear about it all the time. He'll beat her almost to death (or vice versa) but she'll refuse to press charges. Verbal and emotional abuse is almost as bad. What are they thinking? I'd be scared to death and careful as heck to get involved in that kind of psycho-drama. It's great to want to help people, but there might just be a lot more to what's going on than you know.

As to the yelling and fighting; my wife and I have our moments of irritations and disagreements, but even when I'm upset or angry I'm still watching out for her feelings. As frustrated as I might be, I still don't want to hurt her, even her feelings, and she's the same in return.

I've seen couples fight where they are mad enough and push each others buttons to where they want to hurt them, emotionally if not physically. They may always make up but you can tell the hurt lingers.

[Stephen Cohen]

I don't know if I mentioned this before, some years back a good friend of mine was walking down his street and heard a woman screaming for help, he raced to her door and called out, she again screamed for help and since door was locked he kicked it in. Now imagine his surprise when he found her partner had her on the floor tickling her, the police were called and my friend was charged with break and enter and wilful damage, now the judge was sympathetic to his actions so no jail or fine imposed but he did have a conviction recorded. The conviction made it hard for him to obtain a weapons licence and took another court case to get it. My advise call cops and let them deal with it, unless it spills into street where everyone can see your actions were necessary.

[MtGun44]

Never.

If you think someone is being hurt, call the cops. Unless they are out in the street
and someone has a weapon and is obviously threatening immediate harm, leave it
to pros.

Bill

[DIRT Farmer]

Long time cop and EMT/P.
The rules,
parents beat kids, kids beat parents
men beat women, women beat men.
Beaten women go to domestic violence shelters for protection.
Beaten men go to jail for protection.
When a woman can take it no longer, she takes a handfull of pills.
When a man can take it no longer, he puts his vechile into something hard.
In the last two when the responders arrive there is generaly no ring on the third finger.

I am currently a last responder, and am getting pretty toasty on people.

[Gator 45/70]

Called once, Back in 07 when a neighbor was chasing his wife around in the garage with a gun to her head.

I called the Sheriff dept and ask if i could shoot him or would they send a unit.

They sent 8 unit's, Got the woman out and he gave up.

She went right back with him and stayed for several year's, I have heard she managed to get out on her on last year.

Good for her !

[mnkyracer]

I appreciate the advice given on the subject. We are getting to know them as they frequently come and ask to borrow things (an egg, cigs from the wife, etc). Things are calm for now and hope that this was just pre-wedding day anxieties spewing forth.

[TES]

This is simple..the only time to get involved is when you know in your heart that someone is about to die. Other than that pick up a phone or in my case let the young lady use yours...outside! Also in my case walk outside with the phone while the LEO is online. Once grandma realized she was yelling at 911 she promptly went inside. Was scary I didn't even have a gun then. But I remembered that DV was worse than VD.

The secret to marriage is finding someone that can put up with your **** and vise vie.

[starmac]

I think the next time I hear the neighbor yell at his dog when it gets in the garden Im'a call the police.

[Epd230]

On average, It takes an abused person 9 times of packing up and leaving the relationship before they stay gone.

[Jammersix]

94.6% (on the internet, 96.75%) of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[btroj]

I think the next time I hear the neighbor yell at his dog when it gets in the garden Im'a call the police.

Exactly