Questions on Washing Wheel Weights and Other Things I'm Ignorant Of...

[Foto Joe]

Well I've gone and done it, jumped right off into the deep end of the molten lead pool so to speak. After not being able to find lead bullets on the shelf anywhere without having to give up a portion of my reproductive system I ordered a Lyman Big Dipper Starter Kit. I also stopped by one of the two tire shops in town on Friday and picked up a five gallon bucket of wheel weights after handing over forty cents per pound or there abouts. At the time I thought forty cents a pound was pretty good but after spending over two hours today sorting those filthy nasty things I'm beginning to wonder. I'm figuring that between 10%-15% are steel or zinc so that raises the price exponentially. That and I'm thinking that trying to get a clean ingot or two out of these is going to be a real job. So here's a question or two for those of you who long ago cured your ignorance of this subject....

Is it a good idea or even wise to try and rinse wheel weights off before you melt them down, allowing of course for plenty of time to dry or even baking them in the oven at 350 for an hour to remove the moisture if I can sneak them past my wife?

I sorted my WW using a set of linemans pliers in one hand and "biting" pretty much each and every one of them to make sure they were lead or at least what I think is lead. I didn't put any in the melt bucket unless I was reasonably sure that they were indeed lead but some of them appear to have a coating on them. What I mean is when I bite them with the cutter it's almost like there's a painted surface on them. Is this something that I need to avoid?

And will somebody please in laymans terms explain fluxing with sawdust to me.

As you can see, this is my first post but believe me it won't be my last.

The difference between stupidity and ignorance is that ignorance can be cured. I'm ignorant so please help with my cure.

Thanks,

Joe

[Echd]

I can't think of any real reason to "wash" the wheel weights. Toss em in the pot, the gunk will float up to the top, or burn off (it might even give your casting area a nice new fragrance!) Burned plenty of junk in my pot- especially with linotype, that tends to be found in tiny sticks and which often have a good deal of dust or nastiness sitting on them.

Some WWs do have a painted surface. I toss them in all the same- they stink to high heavens melting it off, but cast up just fine. Make sure you're doing it in a garage or outside or something.

Fluxing is, in its most basic form, going to come down to this.

You melt your lead down.
When it's liquid, you'll see some gunk floating in it.
Drop in whatever material you want to flux with (sawdust, marvellux, or similar)
Stir it up good.
Now scoop out whatever gunk is left floating on top and you're good to go.

Flux essentially is there to get more of the "good" materials in with your melt, the ones that might have separated out and be floating on top. That's its purpose, and it's that simple to do.

[41mag]

Personally I wouldn't worry about washing them down either. I would however recommend picking up a lead thermometer from someone like NOE Molds. I think I saw they had them in stock and the price is pretty good and they are a forum sponsor as well.

I usually try my best to start off melting them at as low a temp as I can, then bring them up slow adding them a little at a time, using the thermometer to keep it at around 650 - 675 degrees. Once you get an inch or so in your pot they seem to melt in pretty quickly.

Keeping the temp down in that range will let the steel clips, weights, and also the zinc weight to come to the top with out melting, where they can all be scooped off.

When you toss in a hand full of sawdust, it will smoke real good. I usually use a long tipped BBQ lighter to light it off so it don't. Once it turned black I use a wire scoop to push it down into and stir it around really well, while scraping the sides and bottom of the pot.

If you click on the link below my sig below there are a few pictures of showing what I am referring to.


Hope that helps.

[Big_Blue]

I'm just starting out as well. Here's a link to my experience: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?194396-Lessons-learned-from-first-smelting

I get about 73% yield on the local wheel weights I've picked up. I didn't bother sorting them. I relied on a thermometer to melt the lead below the temperature zinc melts at, then I skimmed off the zinc and steel.

I pay between 25 and 35 cents per pound for wheel weights.

I'd love to smelt in my garage, but the amount of smoke that comes off the pot would soot up the garage and make me very unpopular with the Missus. Instead, I do it on the back deck. The link above gives some pix.

I could probably smelt in the garage if I had a strong enough ventilation system to vent the smoke outside--but I don't.

[NSP64]

Get a heavy steel or cast iron pot. No Aluminum. Place the ww in that . Heat until melted (thermometer i shelpful so you dont melt zink). Skim off floating clips and junk . Dont toss valve stems in there. Cheap steel ladel into ingot mold.

[zuke]

Just let the 700+ temp clean the mess for you.
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no rubber valve stem's or bit! no valve cap's! no zinker's!

[cbrick]

Welcome to CastBoolits Joe,

Here is an excellent description for your question on fluxing from a post in the alloys forum. I never try to get the sawdust or anything else below the surface of the melt simply because lead is dense enough to hold it there.

Rick


Actually, you can tell how much to flux if using a true flux like sawdust. When "smelting" scrap, I throw in several handfulls (enough to put about a half-inch layer across the pot) and bring up ladlefulls of lead to drizzle through the charring, smoldering sawdust over and over so as much alloy as possible is directly exposed to the sawdust for purification. The sawdust will "absorb" (oversimplification) certain elements we don't want like aluminum, zinc, iron, calcium, and some others) while leaving the tin and antimony bonded with the lead behind. Allow the sawdust to char mostly to ash, and it will likely be like burned-up aluminum foil. Skim it all and do it again. The ash will be finer and less clumpy. When your sawdust chars to a nice, even black color without the burn-foil clumpiness, most of the impurities that it can remove are gone. Sometimes it only takes once, sometimes three or four cycles of drizzling the alloy through until it's ash, skimming clean, and dumping in more sawdust to get the yuck out. Removing the bad contaminants makes a WORLD of difference to the way an alloy will cast. Gear

[Foto Joe]

As far as sorting is concerned, it's already done one this batch. I will pick up a thermometer though, I didn't realize zinc had a higher melt point.

[44man]

Zinc does but watch fluxing. I never flux before skimming and keep my smelt pot close to 600*. Zinc will float on top.
You need to remember antimony melts at 1166*, zinc is only 786* and with flux you can alloy both into lead at 600*.
Keep all stick on weights out of the smelt.

[Big_Blue]

Zinc does but watch fluxing. I never flux before skimming and keep my smelt pot close to 600*. Zinc will float on top.
You need to remember antimony melts at 1166*, zinc is only 786* and with flux you can alloy both into lead at 600*.
Keep all stick on weights out of the smelt.

Why do you keep the stickons out? For that matter, why keep the valve stems out? Doesn't everything else just act as flux? Other than a lot of smoke, is there any harm to leaving the stickons and valve stems in the melt and skimming them along with the rest of the zinc and steel?

I keep the temperature below 700 with a thermometer.

[cbrick]

Why do you keep the stickons out?

Because they are a good source of soft alloy by themselves.
Because there is never the same quantity in each batch and your alloy will vary greatly.
Because it will dilute your Sb percentage of clip-ons.

Rick

[DLCTEX]

I have a ton of wheel weights stored otside in buckets and they have accumulated dust and debris. I wash them by dumping on a sheet of plywood and hosing them. The sheet is on a slope so that they drain well. While they are scattered I pick out suspicious weights, stick ons, stems, and etc. i then let them air dry in the sun, or start each batch melting from an empty pot and let moisture cook off.

[GaryN]

I start by putting all the stickons in one bucket and all the clipons in another. I also have a bucket for the zinc and a bucket for the iron weights. Sorting is the worst part for me. I would never use water on my weights. It is not necessary. I melt them in batches as big as possible. All the clipons together. All the stickons together. Flux as quoted by cbrick. After the ingots cool mark every one of them. In a year or so you won't remember which ones are clipons. I melt them in a cut in half 20 lb. propane bottle. It holds about 150lbs. If you keep your alloys segregated you have a chance of making a more uniform alloy. Linotype or tin can be added to change things. If you cook it all together you have no way of knowing what you have. It is bad enough with just the clipons. Clipons are basically whatever lead they have sitting there that gets thrown in the mold. But generally they have a higher antimony content than the stickons.They also have some arsenic in them so that you can waterdrop them if needed. Stickons are quite soft and can be used to make muzzleloader balls or as alloy to mix with something else. Another tip: read all you can before doing anything. Especially the stickies. They are made stickies because they are very good info. This can save some aggravation.

[44man]

My last bucket of weights had so much zinc stick on junk, I could not salvage more then a few ounces of pure lead so I just tossed all of them.

[BBQJOE]

is there any harm to leaving the stickons and valve stems in the melt and skimming them along with the rest of the zinc and steel?


Hell yeah!!!! I love the smell of burning valve stems. Breathe deep. :roll:

[trixter]

Keep all stick on weights out of the smelt.

Why do you think that this is important?

[trixter]

Keep all stick on weights out of the smelt.

Why do you think that this is important?

OOps .........asked and answered.

Sorry

[TenTea]

For segregating the zinc and if we had to choose, what be the best method:
test-nip with dykes?
visual hand sort?
in the pot via melt temp?

Could a guy whack the weights with a hammer and see or hear the difference?

As usual, looking for the easy way as long as it's safe, effective and efficient.

[truckjohn]

I don't wash them... Why? I have scars on my arms from past Tinsel Fairy visits... and I have a fresh set of blisters on my arms from a recent Tinself Fairy visity (Damned tinsel fairy)..... Water will stick in the cracks... Then - they blow up and shower you with lead...

Wear safety glasses, long pants, long sleeves, and closed toed shoes... When we are talking about nasty old wheel weights and miscellaneous scrap.... It's not IF the tinsel fairy comes for a visit... It's WHEN....

Thanks

[patsher]

I found cutting with dykes to be too slow for my limited time. I use the sharp corner of a sharp straight-blade screwdriver to do a scratch test. One quick swipe, and you can see whether you dug a deep groove, or a shallow one, or just a scratch, or whether it slid off the wheel weight entirely. Slides off? It's steel. Deep groove? Soft lead. Shallow groove or scratch? You gotta decide what you want to do with it. Quick and easy.

JMTCW

Pat

[Mk42gunner]

I don't wash wheel weights, but I do dump the buckets out on plywood to sort most of the nasty (and all of the rubber) bits out. After the clips have melted out and mostly floated to the top I skim them off; stir with a wooden stick, then do the sawdust thing.

If I have more than one pot full to do, the second pot gets loaded with a shovel; this helps keep me out of range in case the tinsel fairy trys to visit.

My smelting pot is made from a piece of 8" steel pipe, with a ¼" plate welded on for the bottom.

I would not put raw wheelweights into an oven that I was planning on eating anything from, especially if there is a spouse that will raise more stink about it than the wheelweights themselves.

Robert

[TenTea]

I found cutting with dykes to be too slow for my limited time. I use the sharp corner of a sharp straight-blade screwdriver to do a scratch test. One quick swipe, and you can see whether you dug a deep groove, or a shallow one, or just a scratch, or whether it slid off the wheel weight entirely. Slides off? It's steel. Deep groove? Soft lead. Shallow groove or scratch? You gotta decide what you want to do with it. Quick and easy.

JMTCW

Pat

I will be playing with WW over the upcoming weekend and will give this a try. Thanks Pat.

[captaint]

I'm a side cutter user. I find it quick and reliable. I know I throw out some lead WW's - but they're so hard, they don't mark easily with the cutters. Not zinc or steel, just really hard. I don't use them. Don't need every last one that bad. Do separate out the stick ons, as they are much softer lead. Mine go in with the soft stuff. To be mixed later on as needed. I use steel letter stamps for marking my ingots. Work really nice. One is WW the other is Pb. Mike

[TenTea]

Letter stamps might even last longer than a Sharpie!
I have a set - great idea - duly noted - thanks!

[trixter]

Just an observation; I live in Oregon, (I don't know if locale has anything to do with it) and when I sort COWW's and if it says MICRO it is lead, so it goes in the 'keeper' bucket if there is any other markings on them, most likely they are not lead, and I let my smelt pot clean them. I flux with pine sawdust and then pour into Lyman ingot molds, mark and store. My other source is from the bullet trap where I shoot, everything goes in the smelt pot and the wood and paper chunks work good as a 'pre-flux', then ingots, mark and store.

[blackthorn]

I use side cutters to check. If there are any that seem too hard, I set them aside and when I have time I scrape a clear spot on one end and put a drop of Muriatic acid on it. If it "fizzes" it aint lead!

[mold maker]

Most of those that seem hard are just coated with an epoxy type paint. The zinc and Fe weights won't mark with cutters unless you have a gorilla grip. My 71 year old eyes don't read the dirty writing so well anymore, but the side cutter doesn't lie.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

Sawdust is a great flux, but I still use some type of wax. Last two batches I melted, I could not get all the lead off of the clips fluxing with sawdust. fluxing with wax cleans the clips better. Usually use both sawdust and wax.
Also never wash .
CF

[ku4hx]

Many years ago I had a contraption made from a couple of hinged 2x4s. When opened, the two pieces were at 90º. I'd open them, point the apex toward the street (on the driveway) then pour a 5 gallon bucket of clip on WW inside the barrier. Next I'd wet the weights down with a hose and sprinkle powdered clothes washing detergent all over them. Keep the mass damp and let it sit for a couple of hours in the hot Southern sun. A high pressure garden hose nozzle washed off most of the crud and it went into the storm drain. Being emulsified, it just got passed along with the storm water.

Then I discovered a new use for my gas powered fish fryer and overcame my obsession with "clean" weights. Now days I just put 30-50 pounds into the pot, flux, skim off the unwanted stuff, reflux for good measure and pour my super hardy muffins.