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carpetman
08-12-2005, 12:07 PM
One of my former customers---did I tell you I retired--called and needs some reloading done. His brother is terminally ill with cancer. He keeps a .38 special on his bed post and one in the drawer. They are afraid he might decide to end things. They want some blank rounds to replace the live ones. How can I make primers inert? I think BruceB has done some testing in this area.

StarMetal
08-12-2005, 12:36 PM
Ray,

Soaking them in some kind of light oil will kill them. Say like WD 40, Kerosene, etc. If you do that and really want to be sure after you soaked them is to take a straight pin and pop that little anvil out of the primer. You will only be reloading a few rounds for him and that won't be too bad of a hassle. Please....only pop the anvil out of a primer that has been soaked in oil for a day or so.

Joe

fourarmed
08-12-2005, 12:46 PM
If there is no powder in the case, it really doesn't matter if the primer is inert. The bullet won't make it out the muzzle. Of course, somebody will have to knock the bullet out of the barrel.

waksupi
08-12-2005, 12:46 PM
Soaking them in oil WILL NOT necessarily make them inert. There was testing done some years back on the Cruffler list with this. After a couple weeks, a majority of them would fire. Popping out the anvils would be the way to go. No powder in the reloads, either.

imashooter2
08-12-2005, 01:07 PM
Soaking them in oil WILL NOT necessarily make them inert. There was testing done some years back on the Cruffler list with this. After a couple weeks, a majority of them would fire. Popping out the anvils would be the way to go. No powder in the reloads, either.

Concur with the above.

Now then... Why would you want to interfere with a mans God given right to self protection? Or, for that matter, his ability to end his terminal illness if it becomes unbearable? We're not talking about some teenager that thinks life is over because his first girlfriend broke up with him. I say you should politely decline the work.

carpetman
08-12-2005, 01:11 PM
imashooter2---I had the same thoughts as to why interfere? Maybe rationalized that I'm not the one doing the swapping--most likely if I declined they would find someone else.

floodgate
08-12-2005, 04:45 PM
Concur with the above.

Now then... Why would you want to interfere with a mans God given right to self protection? Or, for that matter, his ability to end his terminal illness if it becomes unbearable? We're not talking about some teenager that thinks life is over because his first girlfriend broke up with him. I say you should politely decline the work.

Imashooter, Carpetman: I agree in general - I certainly would want to be in control of my own passing in such a case, and my wife, as a retired RN and an active hospice volunteer, feels the same - BUT, suicide by handgun can be a very traumatic (and messy!) experience for the survivors, no matter how well prepared they are for it. Ask us; one of us lost a parent that way; another parent tried pills and survived, but felt miserable about it. Better would be to talk it out with the family, look up one of the right-to-die organizations, and work with a qualified counsellor or a sympathetic physician.

As to inerting the primer, the very best way is to take a FIRED primer, remove the anvil, and with a 1/8" or 3/16" flat end punch from the inside, the outer face laid on a smooth chunk of steel, tap out the firing pin dent until the primer looks like new. Quick and easy to do; I've made dummies this way. That'll do it for the short run, anyway.

But think of this; how's the poor guy gonna feel when he psychs himself up, pulls the trigger, and it just goes CLICK! The family needs to get help on this.

floodgate

nvbirdman
08-12-2005, 11:57 PM
This has quickly changed from a reloading issue to a right to die issue.
I would not want to leave a mess for someone else to clean up, but if I was terminal I would choose my time.

carpetman
08-13-2005, 01:29 PM
NVBirdman---You are correct it is turning into right to die issue. What if gun manufacturers decided to not make guns because they might be used for criminal activities? In my situation what if they told me the purpose was something different than intended or didn't tell me at all? I tried Floodgates idea of using a used primer and a punch to remove the dimple. The dimpled area was rough looking and I think could draw suspicion. The idea of picking the anvil out of a live primer doesnt sound like something I want to do. If soaked in oil and the primer is dead--why pick it out? If not dead I don't want to pick it out. As a kid I once found an old shotgun shell and picked out the primer. I placed the primer on an old water heater tank and hit it with a short pipe. The blast ripped open my thumb. I don't like messing with primers. I had hopes BruceB would log onto this as I think he did some testing in this area.

carpetman
08-13-2005, 03:07 PM
I placed the primers in one of the compartments of my Lyman ingot mold with a backwards N. I sprayed a good amount of WD40 in there and then poured in some Ed's Red. Let set a little over 24 hours,they were submurged. I tried one in my pistol. There was a faint pop barely louder than the action of the firing pin and trace of smoke. Not nearly as severe a reaction as you get from a good primer---lots of noise--fire out end of barrel and plenty of smoke. So I loaded them--who knows they might get back to normal when they dry????

Herb in Pa
08-13-2005, 03:43 PM
I would think that if one put about 1/4" of JB Weld in the case and left it cure, then seated a slug and primer that there wouldn't be the slightest chance of a fired projectile. Put a few grains of inert material in the case to provide the illusion of propellant.

StarMetal
08-13-2005, 03:46 PM
Ray you should have popped the anvil out, they come out fairly easy. Hey as an side I was reading an FBI report on a bomber and his denonater was primer mixture he dug out of live primers. He needed the material to fill his denonater. Now that's crazy, well crazy to have been a bomber in the first place. Anyways after you soaked them like you did they would be relatively safe to pop out the anvil.

Joe

NVcurmudgeon
08-13-2005, 05:28 PM
Ray, By using your famous Lymaz ingot mould for preparing your test primer, you forgot one important principle. The backwards N causes the force of the primer to go backwards. That poor primer was trying to fire through the cup, rather than through the flash hole. Please retest using a Saeco or RCBS mould. Whatever you do don't use a Lee ingot mould. With a Lee mould, if it is lettered backwards, you could be threatening an endangered EEL!
I placed the primers in one of the compartments of my Lyman ingot mold with a backwards N. I sprayed a good amount of WD40 in there and then poured in some Ed's Red. Let set a little over 24 hours,they were submurged. I tried one in my pistol. There was a faint pop barely louder than the action of the firing pin and trace of smoke. Not nearly as severe a reaction as you get from a good primer---lots of noise--fire out end of barrel and plenty of smoke. So I loaded them--who knows they might get back to normal when they dry????

No_1
08-13-2005, 06:50 PM
IMHO, when this gentleman decides it is time to go, the things you try to do now will in no way stop him from accomplishing his objective. What happens from here on out is his right and his choice.

To stay on topic, I would soak the primer in oil till I thought it was dead, don the proper safety gear (gloves, glasses, ect) and do my best to carefully remove the anvil and all traces of the primer mixture. I am not sure why his family wants you to make up duds for him anyway. Is his family afraid that he will be pissed if they take his guns away? Don't you think he will be pissed when he pulls the trigger and nothing happens? What if he pulls the trigger and one of these pimers is still live enough to send enough power to the bullet to have it smack him in the temple but not break the skin? He may be jello brained from that but not dead yet. I am sure his family will be very pleased with that outcome.....

Ray, I think I can understand the position you have been placed in. I do not agree with what you are doing but do not fault you (and his family) for doing what you/they think is right. I do not know this gentleman that you and his family are trying to protect from himself but I do know me and I feel that many others here whether they wish to admit it or not would not like someone else messing with / directing our life in this way.

I have a very close friend who is 48 and total eaten up with cancer. He is still mobile and on very heavy meds. He chooses at this point not to socialize as much as he use too. I have tried to contact him but he is in his own world now. I have left word that I am here for him when he needs me and WILL NOT pressure him to accept "my needs/desires" for what is best for him. He knows EXACTLY what is best for him. I hope that before he passes he will see me again. As far as I am concerned, he is in the hands of the almighty above and what happens from here on out is between them.

Enough of my rant. I do not mean to offend anyone here, Just stating my opinion.

V/r

carpetman
08-13-2005, 07:10 PM
No1---In an answer to A PM from someone,I mentioned this. My brother was dying from brain tumors. He gave me a couple of his guns and 3 for me to give to his stepsons and sons. He kept one gun--a shotgun. I never gave it the slightest consideration he might want it for suicide. Had I thought that,I really don't know what I would have done. Tough call. Had he of done such,who knows,I would probably still be kicking my own butt had I not taken action. Had his wife thought that and wanted the peace of mind that the gun be disabled somehow,I would have had very difficult time refusing. This situation,I am not part of the decision or actual action and I am very glad of that. Perhaps that's rationalization?

No_1
08-13-2005, 08:49 PM
I understand completely Ray. Just let your heart be your guide. I am sure it will guide you in the direction that is correct for the situation as you see it. I have always told people around me to make the decision that they believe is the right decision based on their beliefs and do not let the input of others influence that decision. In closing, this will be tough decision for you, but I would do the thing that allows me to have a clear concious when I lay me down to sleep. Godspeed to your friend.

Again V/r

carpetman
08-13-2005, 09:24 PM
I delivered the dummy rounds. I learned they have already unloaded the gun and if he notices that and asks for bullets that's their purpose.