Lee 457-405-F and RL7

[Dale in Louisiana]

Lyman's 4th Edition Cast Bullet Handbook gives a load of 37 grains RX7 for their 405-grain #457193 as a starting load suitable for Trapdoor Springfields.

I used the same load with the Lee 457-405-F. Loaded some up, went to the range yesterday. I am glad that the first shot with this load was from a Ruger #1 because the first round and a couple more from the same loading were ejected with the primers missing.

The gun is new to me, so I fired a couple of factory-loaded .45-70 rounds. No problems showed up with those.

This not being my first rodeo, I looked at the Lyman's #44 book and it shows 29 grains of Rx7 for a 405 j-word bullet.

Needless to say, I'm glad I didn't try that load in my Trapdoor first.

Am I missing something here?

I've got a metric buttload of Rx7. Would be nice if I could find a .45-70 load that didn't blow the door off my Trapdoor.

Dale in Louisiana
(sort of new to the blooper game)

[double8]

I assume you are talking Reloder 7?
I have a Lee loading guide that came with my 45-70 dies [6 months ago].
It lists 37.0 gr Reloder 7 for thr 300 gr Jword and 30.8 gr for the 350 gr Jword.
NO listing for either cast boolit.
However:
I have a load from Loadbooks USA showing:
RL7 with 300 gr cast FP gas check
Start.. 33 gr RL7 1400 fps
Max...38 gr RL7 1639 fps
Also:
322 gr cast #2 alloy #457122HP
Start: 47.0 RL7 1687 fps 13,100 c.u.p.
Max: 51.0.........1813 fps 15,800 c.u.p.
suggested 1/2 gr polyester fiber wad 5/8" sq.x 1/4" thk over powder.
Sure would like to hear/understand what happened to you load as I have loaded some 300 gr gas checked boolits with 37 gr RL7 which I haven't yet shot. They were loaded for my 45-70 1886 Winchester and supposedly this is a safe load.
I also have a load listing a start load for a 300 gr FP cast and RL7 at 38 gr for 1428 fps with a max of 45 gr RL7 for 1811 fps
And another for 47 gr start for 1687 fps with a max of 51 gr for 1813 fps

The same book lists a 50.0 gr [with filler] start load at 1842 fps 16,000 cup and a max of 58.5 gr compressed powder charge for 2132 fps and 27,000 cup. NOT FOR A TRAPDOOR!

[Dale in Louisiana]

Yep, it's RL-7.

I'm going to disassemble the rounds and start over. I know the Ruger will handle loads that will supposedly disassemble a Trapdoor, and the same Lyman Cast bullet Handbook shows a 47-grain starting load for a 405 grain bullet specifically for the Ruger actions.

Based on those figures, I cannot fathom a reason for the primers blowing out of the pockets. Note that the primers didn't flow or puncture. They fell out of the pockets. No other signs of high pressure were noted.

I want a decent load for RL-7 for the Trapdoor. That means less than 18,000 CUP or PSI.

dale in Louisiana

NO it wasn't! See message #7!

[Tatume]

Although I'm not recommending your load in the Trapdoor Springfield, I can say with considerable confidence that it should not be expanding primer pockets as you describe. Something else is going on here. You are right to disassemble the loads. You should also weigh the powder charges that you remove, because the first thing that comes to mind is that your charges are much heavier than 37 grains of RL-7.

The next thing you should do is to place a new primer in the primer pocket of one of your fired cases. Just put it there with your fingers. If it goes in easily and falls back out, you have certainly exposed that case to extremely high pressure. This is too much pressure for your Ruger No. 1. Even though it will probably not blow up the No. 1, it won't do it any good either.

Another thing to check is the integrity of the powder. Could it be something else in an RL-7 canister? Might someone have accidentally dumped a hopper full of some other powder in your RL-7 canister? Pour some out into a saucer and compare it to a known batch of RL-7.

[double8]

This is from the Alliant Powder web site....

45/70 Government (Trap Door Actions) Speer 300 gr FNHP Winchester 2.53 26 CCI 200 Reloder 7 42gr... 1,775fps -

45/70 Government (Trap Door Actions) Speer 350 gr SP Winchester 2.715 26 CCI 200 Reloder 7 35gr..... 1,458fps -

[Dale in Louisiana]

This is from the Alliant Powder web site....

45/70 Government (Trap Door Actions) Speer 300 gr FNHP Winchester 2.53 26 CCI 200 Reloder 7 42gr... 1,775fps -

45/70 Government (Trap Door Actions) Speer 350 gr SP Winchester 2.715 26 CCI 200 Reloder 7 35gr..... 1,458fps -
Yeah... That's what I saw. Lighter bullet with a lower starting load, even though it's jacketed. Yet Lyman says 37 gr.

I'm going to have to play with this one.

thanks
dale in Louisiana

[Dale in Louisiana]

Investigation is complete!

Findings:

1. One needs to actually READ the label on the powder jug. RL-7 and Unique canisters Look alike except for the words.

2. The Ruger #1 action will stand 37 grains of Unique behind a 405-gr. bullet.

3. 37 grains of Unique will expand a primer pocket on a Starline case.

4. One can be, to use precise terminology, quite the dumba** and live through it.

Forgot that I even OWNED a can of Unique.

I've been handloading since I bought my first classic Lee Loader when I was thirteen - fifty years ago. I deal with high voltage electricity for a living and I tell my guys that complacency is a killer.

Then I pull a bonehead move like this.

I'm glad I didn't put one of those pills in the Trapdoor that I loaded them for.

I will file this one under 'lessons learned'.

dale in Louisiana

[Tatume]

Although I'm not recommending your load in the Trapdoor Springfield, I can say with considerable confidence that it should not be expanding primer pockets as you describe. Something else is going on here. You are right to disassemble the loads. You should also weigh the powder charges that you remove, because the first thing that comes to mind is that your charges are much heavier than 37 grains of RL-7.

The next thing you should do is to place a new primer in the primer pocket of one of your fired cases. Just put it there with your fingers. If it goes in easily and falls back out, you have certainly exposed that case to extremely high pressure. This is too much pressure for your Ruger No. 1. Even though it will probably not blow up the No. 1, it won't do it any good either.

Another thing to check is the integrity of the powder. Could it be something else in an RL-7 canister? Might someone have accidentally dumped a hopper full of some other powder in your RL-7 canister? Pour some out into a saucer and compare it to a known batch of RL-7.

Thought so.

[DrCaveman]

Holy geez! Any quickload users know what that pressure might be?

Glad you're ok!

I was going to report getting 1600 fps using 40 gr rx7 behind that very boolit. Very stout kick from my handi-rifle, but no pressure signs. Mid-level marlin load if I'm not mistaken. Too hot for trapdoor I think

[blikseme300]

Dale, glad you are Ok. Your milestone 500th post is a red letter one about safety and how easy it is to mess up.

[badgeredd]

Quite the proof load! Depending on seating depth, Quickloads calculates peak pressure well above 100,000 PSI!
God was watching over one of our own!

Edd

[badgeredd]

BTW Dale, thank you for being man enough to share. We've all made mistakes and hopefully we learn from other's mistakes also.

My last one was getting in a hurry and not removing a canister of powder from my bench. Fortunately, I realized when I was seating some boolits that something didn't look right. Lo and behold, I had picked up the wrong powder jug and was loading a faster powder into my cases than I intended. The consequences could have been disastrous for me.

SAFETY and good procedures/practices above all else, always!

Edd

[Larry Gibson]

Glad you're ok.

Definately glad that was in a Ruger as the TD most like wouldn't have survived.

Lesson learned.

Thanks for being honest about the mistake. You set an example in doing so that some others should learn.

Larry Gibson

[Smoke4320]

Yes Glad you are ok .. and hopefully the ruger is ok too..
posts like this are very good as consistant reminders of safety hopefully keep our heads in the game..

[41 mag fan]

Hopefully this will make some to stop and think and double check!! Like the old carpenters saying...measure twice....cut once.
In this scenario...look and confirm twice...load once.
Glad you didn't have a worse experience than this Dale.