Help with boolit fill out and diameter

[CGT80]

I posted another thread last week regarding a PID and a bad TC. My lee dripomatic is now running pretty stable. I bypassed the original thermostat, but the pot still has to work to bring sprues and new ingots up to temp. The great part is that it doesn't usually go more than 1 degree over my set temp as I am casting. I wait until I have about a pound of sprues to throw them back in, and give it a minute to catch up.

I am using two molds-an MP 45 270 SAA brass 4 cavity mold with round pins and an RCBS 45 225 RN steel 2 banger. My alloy is unknown. Most of it should be WW and I also have some that is supposed to be linotype. The lino 1 pound bars ring a fair bit more than the WW when I drop them on concrete.

I use a hot plate to preheat the molds and a wet rag to cool.

I made some boolits the other night and they came out pretty frosty. This was ok in the past. This was with the WW material. I went to size them the next night and they hardly touched the sizing die in the RCBS LAM I with white label C red. Some of them (270 SAA) measured out at 0.450" with digital calipers. I need to get a micrometer. Are the harbor freight micrometers decent like the 6" calipers? The 4" calipers are junk, as I found out with a few minutes of playing with one in the store (it would easily loose it's reference on the scale).

In the past I saw marks on 90-95% of the diameter of the boolit, from the 0.452 sizer die. The gun I am using is a Smith 460 XVR 8 3/8" and I push the 270 boolit to 1000 fps with trail boss.

I was also having problems with getting sharp, filled out, edges on my boolits. I tried again last night, for better boolits. I ran the mold cooler and used lead temps from 600-700 degrees. I got boolits that were only slightly frosty with some that were shiny. Fillout was still a problem. I sized some after they air cooled, and the diameter was better. 80%+ of the boolit had marks from the sizing die. I measured and got 0.4515" where it was sized. Is it common for a die to be half a thousandth under size?

Next I added a pound of what I think is linotype to 3-4 pounds of WW. I didn't notice a big difference.

The RCBS 45 225 mold filled out better, but it is a very basic shape. It was easier to keep the mold at a temp to make mostly shiny boolits, regardless of pot temp. I had the same size issue with the very frosty boolits vs. slightly frosty. The slightly frosty and shiny boolits are marked on 90%+ of the bands, from the sizer.

I haven't had a problem with leading using these boolits in my 460, in the past. If I had any, it was just a tad in the corners of the rifling. The rifling never filled up, and I didn't get any strings of lead from the barrel-more like just bits of dust when running a bronze or brass brush.

I am wondering if I need to add some tin or antimony to the mix. Also, does more heat in the lead or mold usually make smaller boolits, or is it the other way around? I have a few hundred pounds or so of various lead. I looked at the tin wire and super hard from roto metals and wouldn't mind adding some of that if it will solve my issues. The problem is that I don't know what I have to start with. Can I assume I have soft lead and add enough sweetener to make a good alloy, or will too much of the good stuff cause more problems. I also thought about buying some know alloy to test, or at least something from one of our cast boolits sellers that is known to make good boolits.

Right now I load a 159 grain pb boolit for my 30-30 to be pushed at 1116 fps, the 45 270 at 1,000 fps, and the 45 225 at 700-800 fps.

I have read here for many hours, but I am still a bit lost, so please forgive any lame or redundant questions.

I also have some different pieces of metal that might be good stuff.
I think the small chunk in the corner may be antimony. It feels very hard and looks very crystalline. I will go out and try to break a chunk off to see if it is brittle.

The skinny pieces look like they may be solder, but I'm not sure. I also don't know about the big bar on the top.

Thanks for your help, in advance guys.
Happy Casting
70366

[CGT80]

I had read about tin rich alloy having a ring when it drops on concrete. I just tested some of my metal. The canada strip in the photo above is soft and doesn't ring. I bent it in half and then back. It didn't crackle like tin is supposed to (I haven't experienced this yet). The bigger 50 K strip in the photo is pretty hard and too thick to bend by hand. It doesn't ring when dropped either. The chunk in the corner had little crystals fly off when I hit it with a hammer. It is extremely hard feeling. The big kirkson bar didn't ring either.

I dropped some 1 pound ingots from 12" to the concrete floor in my loading room. Most of the ingots that are supposed to be linotype rang pretty well. There were 5-10 of them that just went thud. Those that thud were a bit darker in color. The ingots that my dad and grandfather supposedley made from wheel weights, in the late 70's and early 80's, had a good ring that was similar to the sound of the linotype. I found a few that had less ring. There were also a few that just made a thud. I remember melting down some sheet lead into 1 pound ingots, 15+ years ago, and I am sure these are it. They had layers formed in them, and I remember that part too. I have two 5 pound dive weights that ring very well. Are they good alloy, or does zinc ring also? A scratch test with my finger nail looks the same as other lead.

I have some hexagon or octagon ingots that are roughly 5+ pounds and they have "Mexico" stamped into them, among other writing. They thud as well, so I figure they are soft lead.

The casting I did recently had some lead mixed in it that I just picked up. It was supposed to be wheel weights also, but the chunks are 10-17 pounds each and they don't have much ring to them. I think 1 pound ingots of this material would be better to compare to my other lead. If I make 1 pound ingots, how long do they need to age before they would work in the ring test, or will they?

I looked at hardness testers, but haven't bought one yet. Someone posted a saeco that they had only used once or twice, on this forum. They may have been joking about selling it, maybe not. I have read mixed results with the lee. I don't have to know the specs of my lead, but I need to be able to make it cast well, and I don't want to waste good linotype (if that is what I really have) by casting it straight, to be used for low velocities.

Right now buying boolits is still looking better than casting for most of my needs (9mm and 40 s&w) but I enjoy it when it works right, and I may be able to mine the berms at the private range I go to. I could use bear creek for my high volume guns and cast for the rifles and big pistol boolits, or if everything comes together, I might be able to use range lead and a faster lube sizer to keep up with my high volume guns.

[Larry Gibson]

Two problems:

1st; WWs (assuming COWWs?) are generally antimony rich and tin deficient. Linotype is also antimony rich and what % of tin it has is already insolution with it's full potential of antimony.....before you add it to the WWs. What is needed is to add tin, either in pure form or in solder form with no additional antimony and you can't do that with linotype.

Second (after correcting the alloy); the Lee pot used is not getting the alloy into the cavities fast enough. Cast at 700 - 730 degrees. Open the spout if your Lee pot has an adjustment to get the alloy into the cavity as fast as possible. With a ingot mould under the spout let a "squirt" of alloy out of the spout imediately before putting the mould under the spout to pour. This gets the hotest alloy back into the spout just before pouring bullets. Fill each cavity indipendently and pour a generous sprue over each cavity. If using just one mould at a time slow down the casting tempo to just where the bullets aren't frosted.

Larry Gibson

[CGT80]

Thanks for the response Larry. It sounds like my linotype might be good to sweeten the softer lead, but I still need more tin for the fill out. I have also heard that it is possible to cook off the tin if the lead is run too hot. I have no idea what was done with the lead before I got it, so this could be possible as well, and another reason for more tin.

I may set my current batch of lead to the side and try casting just with the linotype to see if I get good fill out and size.

The tin wire from roto is looking good right now.