Hopkins and Allen .45cal Target Rifle ?

[SamTexas49]

Ok, I just snagged one of these rifles. I know its a retooled 45/70 (sharps) springfield (edited) stock and lock with a ML barrel (.45cal) with breachplug similar to a Springfield Musket. Just not finding any info on how they suggested to load. Ill mike the barrel, but Im wondering if anyone out there has some past experience or info. Id really like to use one of the .45cal minie style bullet molds or even curious if a under size .45/70 type mold would load well. Not new to BP or lead casting or muskets or good ole black powder shootin ! Ive got some .45cal (45/70) cast bullets I'll test fit.

Share what ya know !!

[451 Pete]

Sam I have a listing for a Hopkins and Allen Heritage Underhammer M32 in a .45 cal in one of the books here. It is listed as having a 1:66 twist for a patch and round ball. Loads tested were for .015 patch / CCI #11 cap / .445 -133 grain Hornady round ball and Goex fffg powder. I think they may have made one with a faster twist but I don't have any load data for it. Twist is something you need to check.

Pete

[SamTexas49]

Ok , this isn't the underhammer model. It looks like a "trapdoor" 45/70 cept it is a ML front stuffer. Top of barrel in front of breech is stamped, "Numrich Arms, Hopkins and Allen, N.Hurley NY.

[John Taylor]

Numrich Arms bought the H&A name and started using it about 1955 on several muzzle loaders. This is very confusing to a lot of muzzle loading owners thinking they have something made in the 1800s because of the H&A name. They also had a two barreld rifle in 45 caliber with the same name as well as several under hammers.

[SamTexas49]

What Id really like to have is any info on what was recommended for projectiles ? Round ball, Minie ? from any one who has one or had one and what did they shoot ?

[johnson1942]

show us a picture sounds real interesting.

[dondiego]

I think he is actually referring to an H&R (Harrington and Richardson) and not an H&A (Hopkins and Allen). I have both. The H&A's are underhammers. The H&R's are break open actions.

[Shooter]

Numrich sold an "Instant muzzleloader kit" for trapdoors in the '50's and '60's. It was a .45 barrel and hammer for a trapdoor lock and stock.
See if your stock is a TD.

[SamTexas49]

Numrich sold an "Instant muzzleloader kit" for trapdoors in the '50's and '60's. It was a .45 barrel and hammer for a trapdoor lock and stock.
See if your stock is a TD.

This is what Ive been figuring. Another Gent has contacted me and he has exactly what you say, an old 45/70 TD with the "drop-In" .45cal ML kit (barrel/breech plug, and hammer).

The one I have has stamps on the stock (opposite from lock) is "US" and on left side of buttstock is a number "7748" and below that "O I A"

What is unique is on the lock is a small square area with ".45cal" stamped.

[SamTexas49]

I think he is actually referring to an H&R (Harrington and Richardson) and not an H&A (Hopkins and Allen). I have both. The H&A's are underhammers. The H&R's are break open actions.

The Top of the barrel right in front of Breech plug is stamped;

NUMRICH ARMS
HOPKINS AND ALLEN
W.HURLY, NY

[SamTexas49]

Ive received some great replies on this rifle. RB load seems to be a .440RB and good patch, what Id like try now is a .445 cal Minie ball boolet ! I see that there is 2 different sizes, regular .445 and an oversize one. If anyone has a few already cast and willing to send one for me to try before purchasing the molds it would be greatly appreciated. I looked on line to see if any vendors had some I could purchase but no luck yet.

[Bob Maerdian]

I have a friend who just got one of those .45 cal Underhammer rifles. He has been shooting it with round balls and about 65 gr FFFG. Last Monday I watched him shoot a quarter sized group of 5 shots at 50 yards off the bench that could be covered with a quaRTER! I thought that was pretty good.

[SamTexas49]

As Paul Harvey would say "Here's the rest of the story". Taking some suggestions and guesses I searched out "1873 trapdoor & drop-In rifle kit" and bingo ! Back In the 60s some states were starting to have "Muzzle Loading Seasons only" so Numrich Arms came up with the idea of a drop-In barrel kit ( barrel with breach plug, .45 cal ,1-66 twist, front sight and hammer. All this to fit in 1873 trapdoor rifles which back in the 60s they were barrels of them available. It appears they made this up through 1986. Old posts I could find on this conversion said that it was a good shooter.

[waksupi]

If It's 1-66, stick with round ball. Perfect for that twist.

[KCSO]

They were a round ball twist 1-56 or 1-66 IIRR had one back in 1970. I shot round ball with mine.

[Janoosh]

I had 1 in 45. It shot very well with a PRB and Pyrodex. I gave it away to a young man to get him started in Muzzle loading. I have my eyes on one in 58 cal, i just dont have the money yet. This firearm has a specific name and I believe it is called a Springfield Stalker. H+A.......not H+R.

[DIRT Farmer]

I just was given one of these barrels marked N A C on the breach plug for re assembling the gun as an 1884 trap door. It has seven grooves and 1-66 twist and a modifed hammer. It makes a good feeling rifle, and definately going on the project list.
Definatly a round ball barrel.

[SamTexas49]

Glad to see another NAC shooter here! Yes, probably a RB shooter but it will be fun to experiment with some other boolets!


I just was given one of these barrels marked N A C on the breach plug for re assembling the gun as an 1884 trap door. It has seven grooves and 1-66 twist and a modifed hammer. It makes a good feeling rifle, and definately going on the project list.
Definatly a round ball barrel.

[SamTexas49]

I know its been a while on this subject but I finally found my answer in an old Dixie Gun works catalog ( I snagged off Ebay)
Hopefully I can post the scan of the page from the catalog. 188385