.40 S&W cast bullets

[Rooster931]

I just picked up a Lee six cavity 175 grain truncated cone mold and was wondering if anyone is shooting cast out of a Smith and Wesson M&P. I have heard of issues with Glocks unaware of any issues with the M&P. Thanks.

[patsher]

I shoot that same mold boolits in my CZ-75, and it loves them.

Pat

[fcvan]

I shoot the heck out of that boolit cast from range scrap, lubed with BAC, over 5 grains of Unique, through 6 different Glocks (big family, lots of Glocks) all with stock barrels. They've also been shot through a friend's CZ as well. I don't recall the condition of his bore afterwards as I wasn't there when he cleaned his guns. One of my Glocks has never seen anything but this load. My first Glock had seen a fair amount of factory jacketed loads before I got it. I cleaned it well to remove any copper fouling before I changed it's diet to cast boolits.

[RobsTV]

Yes, many have had problems shooting lead out of the Smith and Wesson 40's. My M&P Shield 40 is still a work in progress. Many, many threads on the S&W issue. Throat, fit, ridge, leading, powder, etc.

couple links to get you started.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?168897-need-help-with-40S-amp-W-barrel-leading&p=1891624&viewfull=1#post1891624

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?141328-M-amp-P-Leading&highlight=throat

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?174637-S-amp-W-Shield-Bore-Diameter

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176363-Lee-2-cavity-175-401-mold-question-from-a-newb

[Maximumbob54]

I followed the Lee directions for cast, lube, push through sizing die, lube, load, and shoot and had leading. Then I read the TL design usually doesn't need sizing and stopped that step so I only lubed them once then loaded and shot them. Poof, no more leading. That was loading them with I forget how much HP-38 and loading was done on the Classic Turret with the crimp done by the Carbide Factory Crimp die. I almost never felt any post sizing happen and when I did I just culled that cartridge out and pulled the bullet. That is now my bulk fun loading for use in my M&P 40c.

[Ed_Shot]

My Glock 22 (w/Lone Wolf barrel) loves the Lee 401-175-TC (standard lube). I use a COAL of 1.110 and taper crimp to .421. My target load is Promo 4.0 gr.

[Adam10mm]

Oh my goodness that bullet will run in anything .40 you put it in. When I loaded for the .40 S&W, I used that bullet with 5.7gr WSF set to 1.125 OAL for 950fps.

[RobsTV]

I think the original poster mentioned specifically shooting these out of a Smith and Wesson M&P, not any other guns, and the Smith and Wesson's have special things that need to be done to "some" of them before you can shoot these great boolits effectively.

[leadman]

As a side note I found that the Gator Lyman style gas check for the 41 mag seats great on this boolit. I don't own a 40 so will have my friend test these for me.

[Cane_man]

just picked up an older Lyman 38-40 175gr, looking forward to see how it shoots

[Adam10mm]

I think the original poster mentioned specifically shooting these out of a Smith and Wesson M&P, not any other guns, and the Smith and Wesson's have special things that need to be done to "some" of them before you can shoot these great boolits effectively.
And those changes would be...? I don't recall my customers having issues with that bullet in their M&Ps.

[RobsTV]

And those changes would be...? I don't recall my customers having issues with that bullet in their M&Ps.

Check out some of the links I posted, especially those by geargnasher, where he explains the issues and solutions better.

The big thing for some is the ridge that is shown in the photo above that will shave lead before it hits the rifling (smaller boolit, loose fit, leading). Many current S&W M&P 40's have this ridge. Sure, you and your friends are apparently fine with your S&W's, but original poster simple mentioned that he was not aware of any issues, so by pointing out that some users here do indeed have issues, he has his answer. But to say all is rosy and that it will will shoot fine in anything is just flat out wrong (yes, it will shoot fine even in problem guns after some slight changes). Simply look at the results of others that have posted issues every few weeks here. It is hard to use search terms to find all the threads, since 40 S&W and .401 or .402 comes up short, but some digging will bring them up.

[nvald1982]

glock are no good with cast must change barrel out to KKM percision

[Moonie]

glock are no good with cast must change barrel out to KKM percision

Obviously you are new here, please read the following thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?33855-The-Truth-about-Glocks-and-Cast

[fcvan]

And yet another person who says 'cast are no good in Glock factory barrels.' Yes, there can be a problem with cast boolits in any gun and Glocks are no exception. Almost every gun manufacturer has prohibitions against reloads and/or cast for warranty purposes.

Any person who shoots their weapon, and does not inspect the bore to make sure there are no issues with the load, are headed for a potential kaboom. When I first got a Glock 22C I approached loading it like every previous caliber by working up the load and checking the weapon along the way. The load I settled on gave zero leading the first time out. Lee 401-175 TC, cast from range scrap (180 grains) sized to .401 and lubed with NRA 50-50 or equivalent, seat and crimp set to a factory round, over 5 grains of Unique. Presto, success.

I had shot over 2000 rounds before I ever read about 'Glock kaboom' or some of the early Federal brass having case failures. Personally, I think a lot of the case failures with cast were a combination of both, coupled with folks pushing their reloads to the top end. My 5 grain load is by no means top end, it is intended to be a universal reload suitable for a wide range of weapons. I shoot with friends and I don't mind them shooting my stuff. If it is safe enough for me, it is safe enough for my friends.

I have friends who will not shoot lead through their Glocks so I let them shoot mine first, let them check the bore, and decide for themselves. When they choose to switch to lead I make sure they clean all copper fouling from their bore to further reduce the chance of leading. I have one buddy who is still not convinced but is almost on board with trying lead boolits with plain based gas checks. Until then, he can buy all the jacketed boolits he wants. I may also set him up with some powder coated boolits to try.

If buying a replacement barrel is your thing, go for it. There is no arguing that a precision chamber and a match grade bore aren't better than the stock barrel. I'm pretty sure if I were going to shoot a Glock 10mm and push the loads I would buy an aftermarket barrel. For now, the only aftermarket barrels I have for my Glock 40s are Lone Wolf conversion barrels for 9mm. They shoot sweet! If I get a Lone Wolf barrel for the 40 it will be threaded for a suppressor, that is when I start collecting stamps. Until then, I will be shooting lead through my stock Glock barrels.

[RydForLyf]

I just picked up a Lee six cavity 175 grain truncated cone mold and was wondering if anyone is shooting cast out of a Smith and Wesson M&P. I have heard of issues with Glocks unaware of any issues with the M&P. Thanks.
LOVE, love, love that bullet in my G35. Sorry that I can't help with the S&W question, but I've shot thousands of that with no problems in a stock Glock G35 barrel. 75% COWW, 25% Linotype.

-RFL

[popper]

early Federal brass having case failures Had one of those, no pain but no fun either. Toss FC marked 40 cases! Many M&P 40 users have noted the problem. My XD & PX4 have a sharp ridge but don't shear lead unless grossly oversized. Try loading a dummy really long, chamber and see how bad a ridge the throat makes. Does it shear or move the lead? Mine made a small ring ~ 0.0015 tall & wide between the throat and chamber, pushed 0.1" lead into the ring. If it shears or pushes enough to fill the throat-case gap, it will lead. It is worse with weaker alloy. Chamfering that edge may help but is a lot of work to do correctly.
Actually, the PX4 leaded terrible after only 6 shots. PC solved that problem. It has a large chamber and small throat, bigger ridge. Now I can run the same load through both with no problem.

[Hounddog]

Hey Rooster,

I shoot that boolit out of my full size M&P 40. I lube them with BAC lube from white label and size them to 401 in my RCBS LAM2. I get the best accuracy with the slower powders like Unique, WSF, Longshot, 800x, AA#7, Blue Dot, and HS6. Gotta keep the loads on the mid-to upper end to get great accuracy and complete powder burn. My favorite loads are with 800x, HS6, and Longshot. M&P is an awesome gun and love how it fits in my hand. Good luck and PM me for specific load data.

Hounddog

[ku4hx]

No M&P, but I own a Smith 411 (a 4006 maybe? ... my son has had it for years) and a 1006. Both of those Smiths dearly love the boolits in question. As does my G23, G22, G20 and G27 with both OEM and LWD barrels. Same for my wife's SR40.

I don't think I've ever seen a gun that boolit isn't good in.

[ckcadavona]

My experience with my M&P40 and the Lee 175TC is size to .4015 in a lee push through and tumble lube per Lee instructions. I also had luck with Rooster Jacket. I've also noticed that PMC brass is thicker than other .40 brass. I had FTF's with PMC brass and cast boolits.

[ku4hx]

glock are no good with cast must change barrel out to KKM percision

Wish I'd new that in 1991. Tens of thousands of cast boolits through my various Glock barrels and I just never knew I was slowly executing myself. Glad I gots the intereweebs and got edumicated.

[ku4hx]

.4015 in a lee push through

Did your Lee die come that diameter or did you open it a bit? Just curious, I was thinking about opening mine but haven't done it since the as-built size works well.

[MT Gianni]

Not an M&P but I shoot that bullet with no issues in a Smith and Walther 999.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

the sigma shoots them fine , 50/50 wheel weights and soft lead , it slugged 402 , the mold drops .403-.404 , i tumble lube them and load as dropped they swage down to about .402 , any bigger and they don't want to chamber.

if i fire a 100 -200 then run a brush with chore boy it comes out easily so good enough 5 minutes cleaning is worth a the significant savings in ammo

6.3 gr power pistol pushes them to what feels like factory , and shoots to the sights

4.5 makes for a load that is very tame , the wife likes those

[tfreeman1911]

I personally don't own a 40 but I do load these boolits for friends. I used 4.1gr of Titegroup @ 1.12" OAL and my friends Sig P226 was tack driving them at about 10 yards.

[inspector_17]

Hi all, have the same lee mold. Anybody have data shooting it thru Ruger SR40? I plan on using Win 231.

[9.3X62AL]

Hi all, have the same lee mold. Anybody have data shooting it thru Ruger SR40? I plan on using Win 231.

I have and have had a number of 40 S&W pistols, and most will begin to run reliably with the Lee 175 T/C (conventional lube groove version) at 1.135" OAL and 4.2 grains of WW-231. I use 4.8 grains to duplicate my carry/service load, the W-W SXT 180 grainer that runs about 925-950 FPS from 4"-4.5" barrels. I use an aftermarket/lead-friendly barrel in my Glock 40s, which may not be necessary but I do anyway.

[inspector_17]

thanks for the info.

[rowe_s]

The slide on my M&P 40 full size cracked last year at more than 50,000 rounds through it. S&W repaired the pistol for free. Most of the bullets were hard cast 180 gr TC at 915 fps. A couple months ago I replaced the barrel because I was seeing reduced accuracy. The new barrel has much deaper rifling and no erosion. On comparing the 2 barrels I see why the accuracy recently declined. I once fired 5,000 rounds through the M&P 40 FS without cleaning and with no malfunctions. I trust this pistol to always work.

I bought a M&P 40c last fall. It likes these same cast bullets for practice. I do want to stress these are "hard" cast bullets at 17 brinell hardness. I know a couple people that shoot these same bullets through poygonal barrels without problem, I don't have the guts to do it myself. S&W M&P 40 barrels are "not" polygonal rifled.